I agree and have suggested a possible shortcut for the pollice work. For example, was there an employee who quit after a short time and worked on the railroad for a short period just before or after a similar short period with a truck outfit, assuming trucking in the same area has similar problems?
Posibly the charismatic "clegyman" disguises his message of hatred but also preaches the replacement of the Consitution and a democratic form of government with a system used by a foreign country.
BaltACD schlimm I still say the best approach is to find these culprits using profiling, not to try to turn the rails into some fortress. It's not like there is some massive outbreak of booby-trapping going on nationwide. Solving & combating the problem takes longer than a 60 minute crime drama that we see nightly on TV. It takes protracted, dull, boring, hard police work. Carrier police forces actively work on these cases - but they don't get solved as easily as TV makes it appear. It is the real world and things take longer than 60 minutes.
schlimm I still say the best approach is to find these culprits using profiling, not to try to turn the rails into some fortress. It's not like there is some massive outbreak of booby-trapping going on nationwide.
I still say the best approach is to find these culprits using profiling, not to try to turn the rails into some fortress. It's not like there is some massive outbreak of booby-trapping going on nationwide.
Solving & combating the problem takes longer than a 60 minute crime drama that we see nightly on TV.
It takes protracted, dull, boring, hard police work. Carrier police forces actively work on these cases - but they don't get solved as easily as TV makes it appear. It is the real world and things take longer than 60 minutes.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
daveklepper I posted that possibly because I live in Jerusalem, I might jump to an untrue conclusion about the nature of this problem. But assuming a world-wide problem won't ever affect the railroad industry might also be a false conclusion. If affected railroaders wish to be detectives, here is a possible program: If the problem in a specific geographical area affects trucking as well as railroads, garages, filling stations, etc.,, then there is the possiblity of the worldwide problem being the cause. Then if there is a charismatic individual in the geogrphical area, who says he represents the Eternal on Earth and who preaches hate for people who have a different mental road to a moral life, I think the source of the problem is evident.
I posted that possibly because I live in Jerusalem, I might jump to an untrue conclusion about the nature of this problem. But assuming a world-wide problem won't ever affect the railroad industry might also be a false conclusion. If affected railroaders wish to be detectives, here is a possible program:
If the problem in a specific geographical area affects trucking as well as railroads, garages, filling stations, etc.,, then there is the possiblity of the worldwide problem being the cause.
Then if there is a charismatic individual in the geogrphical area, who says he represents the Eternal on Earth and who preaches hate for people who have a different mental road to a moral life, I think the source of the problem is evident.
There were some recent arrests of Jihadi would-be terrorists in Canada who were plotting to derail a VIA train, I gather that is the type of activity you are speculating about?
The particular incidents mentioned in this thread, however, do not really strike me as the work of international terrorists. More likely digruntled and or deranged individuals...
"I Often Dream of Trains"-From the Album of the Same Name by Robyn Hitchcock
The thing about urban legends is that just because they are an urban legend, that does not mean that they never actually occur. Every urban legend has some degree of truth to it. It may have developed over an actual event, and it also may inspire copycat behavior. But generally, an urban legend is something that is said to be happening far more often than it actually happens.
Razorblade booby traps are a staple of urban legends. One variety is razorblades in Halloween candy. Has it ever happened? Sure. Is it as widespread as the public has been led to believe? No, not at all. And yet at Halloween, everybody talks about it and worries about it. That is an example of an urban legend.
If there were thousands of documented cases of finding railcar booby traps, and cases of injury, it would not be an urban legend. But with the federal agencies issuing nationwide alerts, clearly the implication is that the incidents of these booby traps is very high and perhaps rising. So that is why we need to know what incidents have actually occurred. Because if it is only a handful, then this is indeed an urban legend because the hype is so much greater than the actual occurrence.
And if that is the case, they hype may be making the problem far more dangerous by publicizing and promoting it.
To answer the OP's original question. NOPE!
RickH
BarstowRick.com Model Railroading How To's
unfortunately, the ability to use the internet, extends to problem creators as well as problem solvers. one person can gain employment just to learn and then quit inform others of what that one person has learned
Which just goes to show that there is no one source of this mayhem - A similar booby trap may be instigated in one place by a disgruntled employee, another by an unauthorized rider, and yet another by a local hoodlum. And each can learn from the other by simple observation.
Vigilance, both in prevention of the booby traps being placed in the first place, and in the form of employee awareness and caution, is the answer.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Bonas more on subject- http://www.rlhssec.org/pdfs/SEL1306.pdf
more on subject-
http://www.rlhssec.org/pdfs/SEL1306.pdf
You realize this last one deals with the customer's employees, not railroad employees, being on strike. Where railroad management relieves the regular railroad (unionized) crew to cross the picket line and switch the strikebound customer.
There could be some merit to the proliferation of contract switching companies. I'm not thinking about displaced/disgruntled railroaders so much as possibly those who worked at the industry and previously did the switching inhouse. Many companies outsource/contract for things that they formerly did themselves. I could see a facility that had been using it's own people to do the switching at $15-20 hr, contracting out that function to someone paying $8 hr. I could see someone, especially if let go completely, might be upset and have the knowledge to cause mayhem.
I think though that the targets are general and not specific in nature. By doing this, the perp knows they may harm someone, but really can't ensure that it's a specific person or group, such as at a specific yard/facility.
Jeff
Since I live in Jerusalem, I obviously can jump to a conclusion as to the type of people that may be involved. Indeed some, may have obtained railroad employment just for the "education."
And I consider tire slashers and graphitti on buildings used for prayer by any religious group as very very evil, but at least they don't cause bodily injury. We have peace with our neighbors. But potentially dangerous stones were thown recently, and the fact that the throwers were probably motivated by events elsewhere and by leaders elsewhere and the perpertators came from outside our neighborhood doesn't reduce the danger of the stones.
But I may be jumping to conclusions. Our President (Obama) would probably say so.
Stones can break or render opaque a car windshield and cause the driver to loose control.
About the only thing one could do is to be watchful and vigilant at all times. Wear protective clothing, including gloves and safety glasses; and watch where you place your hands and feet so that at least you minimize your risk of getting injured. Yes, there are people out there who are trying to hurt you. The police and the FBI probably don't have the resources to address the problem to any meaningful extent.
Bonas http://www.gwrr.com/operations/industrial_switching Union members could be upset over non union railroad plant switching? see- http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/1051706/contract-in-plant-switching-appeals-railroads-shippers more on subject- http://www.rlhssec.org/pdfs/SEL1306.pdf
http://www.gwrr.com/operations/industrial_switching
Union members could be upset over non union railroad plant switching?
see-
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/1051706/contract-in-plant-switching-appeals-railroads-shippers
Please learn to make your links active!
The software of this forum requires you to bracket the link with 'url' and '/url' tags
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Would be interesting to see some stats on arrests made in connection with railroad vandalism. Railroads sometimes employ their own police forces, so maybe some of those folks could shed some light on this.
I think it will just become institutionalized as a sort of graffiti with sharp edges.
Randy same here I would rather have stuff like this exposed that it IS HAPPENING than in the shadows. Sorry but the RR's I know near me have seen it also and are Sick of it. When crew Members are getting maimed and Killed then it is time for maybe the Feds to get involved with Fingerprints off this stuff and seeing if they can find out who is doing this. Sorry but I myself do not want to see anyone killed by this stuff happening. What is next for these idiots and when will it stop.
Serious for sure, but there's no way to stop it so long as railroads remain easily accessible to anyone. Maybe a good start would be really stiff penalties for anyone caught trespassing on railroad property.
Randy Stahl Frankly I don't give a *** if this thread gets locked. I refuse to pander to anyone . I will not speak of the suffering and maiming of railroad men . I spoke my piece, I don't need to see the body's. Randy
Frankly I don't give a *** if this thread gets locked. I refuse to pander to anyone . I will not speak of the suffering and maiming of railroad men . I spoke my piece, I don't need to see the body's.
Randy
I certainly have no objection to the thread. Although my comments a few posts back may seem like they echo the sentiment of member Bonas posted just ahead of my comments, it was not my intent to reinforce his position. I had not seen that he had posted that at the time I was posting.
I think this topic is actually highly relevant and quite interesting. It represents a very unusual problem. All I am trying to do is understand the extent of the problem and connect dots as to who is doing these acts and why.
zugmann And for the troll poster wanting to lock this topic, he is more than welcome to find a new topic or site. I'm sure there's another ugly amtrak station being proposed somewhere. .
And for the troll poster wanting to lock this topic, he is more than welcome to find a new topic or site. I'm sure there's another ugly amtrak station being proposed somewhere. .
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
To the poster that wants this thread locked. Sorry but anytime there is an Injury that takes a Life we ALL PAY FOR IT in higher Insurance Costs. Here is something to think about with some of these things. Say there is a chunk of Steel wedged in the coupler that makes it look like the Joint is good however it is not. Break apart happens and with it a Derailment. In that Derailment is a Tank Car of Chlorine Gas the worst case possible and it Bursts you going to want to be that man if Found. Or a Tanker of Propane goes up. With what Randy is reporting something like that could HAPPEN. Sorry but I would not want to be the person that does that when caught by the Police or the Feds.
Bucyrus Here is one safety alert issued by the AAR directly quoted: Safety Notice: AAR Issues Safety Alert on Rail Car Tampering On May 4, the Association of American Railroads (AAR) issued the following alert to its members: “AAR has been notified by Exxon-Mobil that it recently received a hopper car at its Baton Rouge, Louisiana facility that had a razor blade strategically placed in the eye of the air brake release rod. Fortunately the site technician immediately removed the razor blade and no harm was done to anyone at that facility. As you will recognize, this type of vandalism may have been perpetrated on multiple railcars that can arrive at numerous facilities across the country. Therefore, AAR recommends that this notice be given wide spread distribution, particularly to all employees who routinely come in contact with rail cars of any type. Employees should be advised to inspect not only air brake release rods for such traps, but also safety appliances, coupler operating levers, angle cocks and any other surfaces which employees may contact. This is one of a number of similar incidents that have been discovered in recent years.” I have no reason to doubt what members have posted here about their direct experiences with this issue. But to understand the problem, it would be helpful to know the actual extent of it. Clearly the AAR and other authorities have documentation of all of these incidents, but I do not find that information on the Internet. Is this information being made public, and if it is, how can it be accessed? Without conveying the full problem, this safety alert has limited impact. After all, this national alert is about ONE razor blade on ONE freight car. The AAR is correct about the possibility of this type of vandalism being perpetrated on multiple railcars across the country. However, one could make this assertion conceptually with no actual incidents having occurred. So it would be nice to know how much of this alert is being predicted and how much has actually occurred.
Here is one safety alert issued by the AAR directly quoted:
Safety Notice: AAR Issues Safety Alert on Rail Car Tampering
On May 4, the Association of American Railroads (AAR) issued the following alert to its members: “AAR has been notified by Exxon-Mobil that it recently received a hopper car at its Baton Rouge, Louisiana facility that had a razor blade strategically placed in the eye of the air brake release rod. Fortunately the site technician immediately removed the razor blade and no harm was done to anyone at that facility. As you will recognize, this type of vandalism may have been perpetrated on multiple railcars that can arrive at numerous facilities across the country. Therefore, AAR recommends that this notice be given wide spread distribution, particularly to all employees who routinely come in contact with rail cars of any type. Employees should be advised to inspect not only air brake release rods for such traps, but also safety appliances, coupler operating levers, angle cocks and any other surfaces which employees may contact. This is one of a number of similar incidents that have been discovered in recent years.”
I have no reason to doubt what members have posted here about their direct experiences with this issue. But to understand the problem, it would be helpful to know the actual extent of it. Clearly the AAR and other authorities have documentation of all of these incidents, but I do not find that information on the Internet. Is this information being made public, and if it is, how can it be accessed?
Without conveying the full problem, this safety alert has limited impact. After all, this national alert is about ONE razor blade on ONE freight car.
The AAR is correct about the possibility of this type of vandalism being perpetrated on multiple railcars across the country. However, one could make this assertion conceptually with no actual incidents having occurred. So it would be nice to know how much of this alert is being predicted and how much has actually occurred.
I have seen notices and safety bulletins about more than one incident. Not everything is publicly available on the internet.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
tree68 BucyrusBut to understand the problem, it would be helpful to know the actual extent of it. Clearly the AAR and other authorities have documentation of all of these incidents, but I do not find that information on the Internet. Do we really want such information freely available on the 'Net? I think that others have already opined that we don't, and I agree.
BucyrusBut to understand the problem, it would be helpful to know the actual extent of it. Clearly the AAR and other authorities have documentation of all of these incidents, but I do not find that information on the Internet.
Well they are indeed freely circulating the information on the Net and everywhere else with their safety alert bulletin detailing exactly what the booby traps consist of and where they are placed. I don’t see any hesitation to tell the world all about it.
My point about not finding information on the Net is about not finding the specific instances even though they tell us there are many. My point is that their alert is not very convincing of a widespread problem when they put out a national bulletin about finding one razor blade.
Yeah...I'm in agreement with Larry...I worked for awhile in EMT way back when...there are times when it is best to be quiet....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
You might have better luck finding instructions to build an A-Bomb.
Do we really want such information freely available on the 'Net? I think that others have already opined that we don't, and I agree. I don't want some enviro-nazi who thinks that trains in the woods are a bad thing finding out ways to hurt me or my passengers.
I hear of stuff in the fire and EMS world that isn't in general circulation. It's not classified, but we'd rather not advertise it.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.