Norm48327 George Orwell's 1984 IIRC.
George Orwell's 1984 IIRC.
I was thinking Minority Report.
Wasn't 1984 was more about editing the past to support the present? It's been ages since I've read it.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Norm
Bucyrus Big brother is another problem. I see no solution for that one. I have heard of a concept where so much will be known about everyone that it will be possible to predict what they will do each day. It is hoped that crime can be eliminated because a person's intent to commit a crime will be known in advance. So they can be arrested before committing the crime instead of afterward.
Big brother is another problem. I see no solution for that one. I have heard of a concept where so much will be known about everyone that it will be possible to predict what they will do each day. It is hoped that crime can be eliminated because a person's intent to commit a crime will be known in advance. So they can be arrested before committing the crime instead of afterward.
That was a movie.
edblysard It’s a private road, leading to a private business, over a private crossing. What gives CSX the legal right to trespass on this man’s road and post signs on his property? Oh, wait…Big brother has the right to do so, ...
It’s a private road, leading to a private business, over a private crossing.
What gives CSX the legal right to trespass on this man’s road and post signs on his property?
Oh, wait…Big brother has the right to do so, ...
I don’t think anybody would have to trespass. CSX must own the land under the crossing and considerable distance on each side. I assume that CSX has the right to stipulate how the crossing is marked. But, beyond that, the company served by the private crossing and the CSX must have come to some agreement just to create the crossing. So I am sure they could agree on improving its protection. But I have not seen the crossings, so I can’t conclude that protection is lacking.
Oh, wait…Big brother has the right to do so, just after they inspect your refrigerator to make sure you’re not eating junk food to make you obese, and install camera in your living room to make sure you’re watching the “correct” programs on the state run TV, right after they install the sensors under your skin to monitor your wakefulness.
23 17 46 11
At least one state ( ohio ? ) has a vertical reflective cross gate type structrure mounted on the cross bucks. Mounted at 45 degree angle or 1/2 whatever angle a road crosses a RR.. Blinking ditch lights should get the attention of most drivers ( but not all locos have blinkers ) but no structure can prevent driver stupidity.. The reflection angles can be wide enough so that reflections should not be missed.
Bucyrus zugmann Bucyrus I don't care what CSX does about the crossing. But I assume they would prefer not to have crashes and derailments. I'm sure in some dimension that logic makes sense. And I'm sure in that same dimension there's a version of me that didn't regret he asked the question. I'll bet it would make a lot of sense to the crew of that train.
zugmann Bucyrus I don't care what CSX does about the crossing. But I assume they would prefer not to have crashes and derailments. I'm sure in some dimension that logic makes sense. And I'm sure in that same dimension there's a version of me that didn't regret he asked the question.
Bucyrus I don't care what CSX does about the crossing. But I assume they would prefer not to have crashes and derailments.
I don't care what CSX does about the crossing. But I assume they would prefer not to have crashes and derailments.
I'm sure in some dimension that logic makes sense. And I'm sure in that same dimension there's a version of me that didn't regret he asked the question.
I'll bet it would make a lot of sense to the crew of that train.
Yeah, what would I know about what train crews think.
Bucyrus zugmannIt's a private crossing (from what I read on here). What more do you want them to do? I don't know if it is a private crossing or what the visibility is. But from the video, it looks like a wall of trees along the track with the truck coming out of a notch in the wall of trees. If that is the case, they could cut back the trees to increase the visibility, add red stop signs, and add advance "Look For Trains" signs. I think those measures would pay.
zugmannIt's a private crossing (from what I read on here). What more do you want them to do?
I don't know if it is a private crossing or what the visibility is. But from the video, it looks like a wall of trees along the track with the truck coming out of a notch in the wall of trees. If that is the case, they could cut back the trees to increase the visibility, add red stop signs, and add advance "Look For Trains" signs. I think those measures would pay.
More signs.
How many is enough?
I think 64.
Bucyrus There are several levels of warning and protection at grade crossings. They go from simply marking the existence of private crossings, to crossbucks, to flashing lights and bells, to gates. Drivers naturally gage the danger by the degree of warning system. A simple crossbuck on a driveway-like road in an industrial area is often seen on industrial spurs, and many of those crossings are flagged with very slow movement. Another critical element of any crossing other than the slow industrial crossings is the removal of vegetation in the approaches, so drivers can see down the track on approach. Ultimately, it is the driver’s responsibility to yield to trains, so the industry and traffic authorities could simply mark the existence of crossings and let the drivers beware. But they go way beyond that because they know drivers make mistakes. Therefore regardless of the driver being at fault in this case, one might wonder if the railroad could have done more to draw attention to the fact that the crossing posed a great danger in terms of train speed and restricted visibility.
There are several levels of warning and protection at grade crossings. They go from simply marking the existence of private crossings, to crossbucks, to flashing lights and bells, to gates.
Drivers naturally gage the danger by the degree of warning system. A simple crossbuck on a driveway-like road in an industrial area is often seen on industrial spurs, and many of those crossings are flagged with very slow movement. Another critical element of any crossing other than the slow industrial crossings is the removal of vegetation in the approaches, so drivers can see down the track on approach.
Ultimately, it is the driver’s responsibility to yield to trains, so the industry and traffic authorities could simply mark the existence of crossings and let the drivers beware. But they go way beyond that because they know drivers make mistakes.
Therefore regardless of the driver being at fault in this case, one might wonder if the railroad could have done more to draw attention to the fact that the crossing posed a great danger in terms of train speed and restricted visibility.
It's a private crossing (from what I read on here). What more do you want them to do? I'd be all for ELIMINATING most private crossings, but then people would have a fit about that...
This is good. LION only report what CSX bashers in NYC have to say on the subject.
ROAR
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Brosdway : i will have to changle you on the vegetation removal. Here on the Lineville sub and A&WP sub CSX has been on a vegetation cut back for the last 2 years. My visibility has become much beter at many crossings. Wonder if vegetation clearance is determined by a division superintendent level ? maybe has to do with total local maintenance budgets ?
We had some discussion on the vegetation around this crossing. It probably was on the CSX ROW, and my friend "Selkirk" from the SubChat forum (who lives almost inside of the CSX Selkirk yards) reports that CSX *likes* its weeds and vegetation and will do nothing to control them.
1st qoute from him:"One problem though given CSX. The vegetation that exists on the ROW belongs to CSX. They're very fastidious about "trespassing" even to do them the favor of clearing brush. We had a similar incident to that on a town road here last year. When the town went to start snipping away CSX's weeds, they called the cops and made the town stop cutting the weeds because they were trespassing. End result, four dead in a car. :( "
2nd Quote from a different poster:"I don't know who trims that vegetation, but I do know this: Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I was riding around coastal Georgia with my cousin, who had been hired by CSX to the signals department maybe a year earlier. We were driving across a railroad crossing, and I asked if it was CSX. His immediate reaction: "Nope, Norfolk-Southern. If it was CSX, the trees wouldn't be trimmed back." "
With an attitude like this, maybe it is all CSX' fault.
It might be comforting to know that the railroad was not at fault, and the driver got what he deserved. But the train crew is also in on the deal, and I can’t imagine that they would too keen on the risks of ramming a big truck at 50 mph if there was a reasonable way to help prevent that.
But "stop, look, and listen" is just a slogan, not the actual legal requirement. The requirement is to yield. Crossbucks are equivalent to a yield sign. Yielding only requires looking for trains and making sure none are coming. If a train is coming, yield requires giving way, which usually requires stopping.
If no train is coming, there is no requirement to stop.
A crossbucks indicates a railroad grade crossing without warning signals. It is up to the motor vehicle driver to determine whether or not is is safe to cross...to stop, look, and listen, before crossing. But since we don't teach reading and reading comprehension in our schools, it simply means somebody put this post and sign up for a day's pay.
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Yes he should have yielded to the train, and the the approach of the train would have required stopping in order to yield. But does that crossing require a routine stop whether a train is approaching or not?
If it is only crossbucks, I would think that the legal requirement would be to yield, but not a routine stop whether or not a train is coming.
I have railfanned at this very spot many times. The crossing is governed by cross-bucks. Although a google earth image shows a hard turn into the crossing, it's not all that at grade level. If the trucker stops and looks, there is no accident.
Local media did a fairly good job, imho. It's when they cut right to the Connecticut passenger side-swiping a week ago, afterwords, that I roll my eyes.
Too many people (both civilian and professional) were too close to the scene, also imho.
For a good laugh at ABC News' expense:
Baltimore Train Derailment Video: Sudden Explosion Strikes Following Derailment
Check out the bit about 50 seconds into the report with their video animation recreating the collision, which is especially funny given the actual surveillance video of the collision (linked earlier in this thread), not to mention the proportion of the trash truck relative to the railcars.
ULRICH: Good point. Perhaps he assumed the tracks were there for aesthetics. I guess NTSB should require an educational video ( in multiple languages) to be available at all grade crossings, explaining what could be happening on those mysterious bands of steel. Hopefully, while viewing said video, the drivers do not park upon the tracks in question. Of course, PTC systems could be structured to ensure that all rail traffic stands still until drivers acknowledge understanding of the instructive video. At such time, we will all put on our yellow vests, release three step, declare our exact position and that we are in the clear and do the safety dance, basking in the knowledge that no harm can befall us!
rfpjohn The driver, in this accident, was on his way out of the facility. He had to cross the same tracks coming in. They were there, trust me!
The driver, in this accident, was on his way out of the facility. He had to cross the same tracks coming in. They were there, trust me!
But the train wasn't.
BroadwayLion UlrichDriver may have been at fault. Texting while driving is definitely not good. Some carriers correspond with their drivers via texting...and penalize drivers for not responding promptly. It becomes problematic for drivers. The driver was also the owner of the company. Go figure!
UlrichDriver may have been at fault. Texting while driving is definitely not good. Some carriers correspond with their drivers via texting...and penalize drivers for not responding promptly. It becomes problematic for drivers.
The driver was also the owner of the company.
Go figure!
Well you know what they say, the boss may not always be right but he's always the boss!
But for how long after this remains to be seen...
We ALWAYS blow long and loud for Dump road. There are five crossings east of Bay View, before Rossville, which have heavy industrial traffic. Only one has gates and lights (Todd Lane), but we are expected to blow for all of them. I've seen far too many vehicles take big chances at all five crossings. One would think that "professional drivers" would be less apt to take a chance at a grade crossing. This certainly does not seem to be the case. It's not as though the drivers are unfamiliar with the tracks being there. The driver, in this accident, was on his way out of the facility. He had to cross the same tracks coming in. They were there, trust me!
For some reason the link gives problems. You can go to www.safersys.org and type in Albans Waste to review their safety record.
Here is a link to the carrier's safety record. I'm in the biz also, and see far worse than that on a daily basis.
http://ai.fmcsa.dot.gov/SMS/Data/carrier.aspx?enc=dOZHWfMcadhwluu+1qdwWw==
It doesn't take much to get an unsafe driving violation...have a look at his.
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