Great Lakes and Atlantic-Dream come true?

[Randy Stahl]

Pretty much the same situation with the WSOR. Track is 99% owned by somebody else, namely government consortiums and Union Pacific. Then there's also the trackage rights on CNICWC...

I don't know that there's that much forest product on WSOR anyways, mostly grain elevators that I know of, and plastics. Probably better to leave 'em alone, a nice big shortline/regional makes a better "customer" than a whole bunch of small customers... (this may be the subject of a new thread shortly...)

Besides, I doubt Gardner would give up his railroad. Seems to me WC had talked to him some years back, can anybody confirm this?

Nonetheless, neat topic! My idea for a railroad would go all the way back to the '40s and '50s, first taking over the Milwaukee Electric (TMER&L) lines to Watertown, Mukwonago, and Burlington (WI), dieselizing 'em, and running freight -- lots of freight! Then they'd take over the North Shore when it was abandoned, build a connection to the Oak Creek power plant, and compete with the C&NW to haul coal! Pick up the old Racine & Southwestern to the Quad Cities in the Milwaukee Road meltdown, take over the C&NW Madison line, and be a lean, mean freight railroad operation on castoff interurban and secondary lines.

[2c] and probably more,
-Mark Hintz
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Junctionfan]

Currently I interchange with the WSOR. My Chicago trackage rights are due to the ownership of the Indiana Harbor Belt, Belt Railway of Chicago, Chicago South Shore and South Bend, and last the Chicago Fort Wayne and Eastern.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Thankyou Overmod.

This is who makes up my Board of Directors currently

Chairman of the Board (Executive Commitee) Andrew Hugh Little

Board Members
--------------------------------
William G Pagonis
Charles Swinburn
Mortimer B Fuller III
Robert W Anestis
T Michael Lang
Robert M Melzer
Gary Gibson
Tom Steiniger

This is nice, but really does nothing to build a great railroad without adequate research and planning.

I'm sure Mort Fuller would be happy to tell you that...

LC

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I offer my services as VP of steam excursions.You will aquire a large Canadian steam engine for steam trips,won't you? I propose geting an ex CPR Selkirk.[:)]

Wouldn't VP of steam excursions be like already under VP of Tourism and PR

cpbloom, VP of Tourism and PR [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I offer my services as VP of steam excursions.You will aquire a large Canadian steam engine for steam trips,won't you? I propose geting an ex CPR Selkirk.[:)]

Wouldn't VP of steam excursions be like already under VP of Tourism and PR

cpbloom, VP of Tourism and PR [:p]

I love jobs like that. Better not get me in as Executive V.P. or you may need your golden parachutes. I can get a couple extra train crews on that kind of cash...

LC

[Junctionfan]

From Detroit to Chicago.
----------------------------------------
After the purchase of the Ann Arbor, the company had every right to get access to it. We aquired running rights from NS to get from Detroit to Ann Arbor. After that, the Ann Arbor route was upgraded and was double tracked from Ann Arbor to Diann. We than build a wye on to the Indiana and Ohio Railway and it to was double tracked from Diann to Lima. Along the line, we had to build overpasses at Hamler to avoid the CSX Willard line and at NS line at Leipsic. We than built a wye connecting the Indiana Ohio line to the Chicago Fort Wayne and Eastern line. With connections now into Chicago where we owned the Clearing Yard and Blue Island from the Belt Railway of Chicago and Indiana Harbor Belt puchase.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I have my operation costs under control Gabe. I have enough lawyers including Robert Shapiro and Johnny Cochrane (definately fantasy land[:D]).

I need department heads. I currently have only a CEO (me), and CFO, COO and Cheif of Security and Legal Services (G&A police included).

Who will step up to the plate?

I think Mark W Hemphill would make a fine Vice President of Research for example; and edblysard a fine Vice President of Security and Legal Services.

Here are the offices you need. Everything else is simply an extra.

CEO
CFO
V.P. Sales and Marketing
V.P. Transportation
V.P. Maintenance and Mechanical
V.P. Labor Relations
General Counsel/Secretary

LC

[Junctionfan]

Even with a railroad this big?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Even with a railroad this big?

Andrew-

It is always better to start smaller and grow if necessary. Take a look at how many VPs David Gunn eliminated when he came to Amtrak. They are doing fine without them.

LC

[Anonymous]

I think I'll start a thread on how to start a railroad. Anybody interested?

LC

[Junctionfan]

Lockport NY to Boston
------------------------------------
After building the bridges between Fort Erie and Tonawanda, we build a diamond over the CSX Belt line. We purchased the Falls Road Railroad from Lockport to Brockport and we puchased the extra rail that connects Brockport to Rochester. Via the Rochester Southern, we went to Maplewood. We eventually convinced the Fingerlakes Railway to merge and we applied to the STB to build about 80 miles of track from Solvay to Bridgewater and 90 miles from Bridgewater to Rotterdam Junction. With approval, the project was completed 5 years later. With the line completed, the Guilford System became an interested party and so many interchange agreements were established. Short time later, we entered into merger talks with the Guilford System which were successful. With the Boston and Maine route, we could run now from Chicago to Boston.

[Anonymous]

Also, do you really need a nine person Board of Directors?? Remember, the more people on the Board the greater number needed for a quorum. Suppose the former Rail America directors and G&W directors disagree on a critical point. What then? How will your bylaws be written? Will the members of the Board be compensated? Where will the annual meeting be? Will the Board have the power to hire, fire and set compensation? How will you handle issues company? I assume you will need to be a "C" Corp and also want to have access to the public markets for equity and debt securities? How will you handle that? You are the CEO after all...

I think you need to put in more thought on how you will actually run the company.

LC

[Anonymous]

Oh, and another big kettle of fish...

Which unions will be on your property and what will their jurisdictions be?
How will you handle the fighting amongst the unions? What about remote control? Your shareholders want it because it saves money. With all the money you are spending buying and building things you will need every dime. What about the longer term? Will you seek different pay arrangements for T&E? ow will you handle the Signalmen? BMWE is merging with the Teamsters too, what about that?

And so many more...

LC

[Junctionfan]

Who should I keep and who should I can?

What would suggest about the unions? What dictates which union has jurisdiction and where?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Who should I keep and who should I can?

What would suggest about the unions? What dictates which union has jurisdiction and where?

It isn't so much a question of who to keep or can, it should be a question of whom is on the board to begin with. You need to carefully analyze how your company was formed and who has ownership (equity) interest and how much. Remember it is the equity that elects the directors. You also need to decide if your company will have "straight" voting or "cumulative" voting of shares as this can dramatically affect who is elected director. Then you need to pick whom is likely to be elected by each group of equity holders and you have some idea what the composition of the Board will be.

As to Unions I suggest you take a look at some of their websites such as www.ble.org, www.utu.org, www.bmwe.org, www.brs.org and others to answer the jurisdictional question.

LC

[Junctionfan]

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

I think you need to read into this more and make some decisions based upon your research. There is no "right" answer. Just remember that the choices you make may have consequences such as strikes or jurisdictional disputes that will cost you money in the long term. These are just part of the problems you will face and although you will have Labor Relations and General Counsel (and their staff) to help you, the ultimate decision will rest with you. We are literally talking about large stakes so it is a CEO decision.

Also, I question your need for a police department. RR police are very expensive and don't produce any revuene. Why have them at all? Your insurance rates will be significantly higher for liability coverage with armed police on staff. Insurers see police and think "Rodney King"...

LC

[Anonymous]

You might do better starting with a smaller railroad and working larger rather than building such a large system right out of the gate.

LC

[Randy Stahl]

If you think you need all those unions, you need to can your managers. In my view a class one is the only one that really needs unions, because class ones don't give a damn about the employees
Randy

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

I think you need to read into this more and make some decisions based upon your research. There is no "right" answer. Just remember that the choices you make may have consequences such as strikes or jurisdictional disputes that will cost you money in the long term. These are just part of the problems you will face and although you will have Labor Relations and General Counsel (and their staff) to help you, the ultimate decision will rest with you. We are literally talking about large stakes so it is a CEO decision.

Also, I question your need for a police department. RR police are very expensive and don't produce any revuene. Why have them at all? Your insurance rates will be significantly higher for liability coverage with armed police on staff. Insurers see police and think "Rodney King"...

LC

Which unions have a history of poor negotiations and which ones are good at negotiations?

What is the railroad to do about security?

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Even today there's no buisness on the former Milw electric lines or the NSL. I doubt either could have survived any longer than they did. The Sheboygan line is parelleled by the CNW> The Watertown line is parelleled by the MILW road. The MRK line was parelleled by 3 other RRs. The Burlington line has ZERO online industry and the East Troy line has all but dried up. The NSL would have suffered badly from Too much competition and would have been at the mercy of the MILW and the CNW in setting rates.
Why would you deiselize these things anyhow with fuel costs going wild, I think alot of RRs today would like to have some electric RR infrastructure.
Randy

Randy,

Can't disagree with you on these points! TMERL had a little on-line freight traffic, which actually prevented some saving funds from the state legislature, IIRC. The Sheboygan line would not have been part of the package, especially since this line would be hard to reach over streetcar trackage. MRK would have been abandoned soon after the CNSM purchase (parallel track), and the Watertown line may have been abandoned due to lack of traffic by now.

But who knows? Look at the WSOR. They took over a bunch of dead and dying lines, attracted a bunch of customers to add to the relatively few that they had, and are slowly turning the property into a classy railroad! And they have succeeded where predecessors have failed, e.g. MILW/ICG, CM&N, WIWR/CWWR!

So, basically, my theory is as follows: new operators, with a bigger-picture mentality, seize opportunity, make progress and profits where others have not, encourage industrial development (read: customers) along the lines, etc. And heck, if nothing else, it's a dream in my head, and committed to a few pieces of paper scattered here and there amongst the pages of books, magazines, and atlases...

This is fun! [swg]
-Mark
"Milwaukee Central RR"
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[GDRMCo]

I'll take the Vice President of Motive Power and Leasing. I could employ some of the Mine Rail's lawyers (high priced fellows you win every court case) to fight against the Dewy Cheatam n' Hall lawyers.

[GDRMCo]

The Mine Rail has acuired some recently rebuilt Auto Maxes which now ride on passenger standard trucks and features three levels which 2 are passenger areas and the other is for baggage. Would this not be a excellent fleet for the passenger runs and tourism? Also we have too many SD70MACs and other locomotives which cannot be retrucked with narrow gauge trucks. We can deliver them right to the railhead where ever you have a intermodal yard on the water seeing as though we operate a fleet of ore boats and heavy transport ships. We could merge the Mine Rail with GA because the GDRM&MCo is going to sell the Mine Rail. The MR could become Pacific North Queensland Rail, a susdiary of GA.

[Junctionfan]

Where is the mine rail located?

[mloik]

Uh oh, Junctionfan,

As an expert on weather and climate (and a native of Mississauga, ON), I can see that you're in for a heck of a winter...frozen ports on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway, unbelievably frozen switches, snow drifts that defy all plows, &c, &c. This is going to cost you big bucks.

And, just wait until you get my bill as a consultant...

Michael
Ben Lomond, California

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

Uh oh, Junctionfan,

As an expert on weather and climate (and a native of Mississauga, ON), I can see that you're in for a heck of a winter...frozen ports on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway, unbelievably frozen switches, snow drifts that defy all plows, &c, &c. This is going to cost you big bucks.

And, just wait until you get my bill as a consultant...

Michael
Ben Lomond, California

No problem, it also means that I'll be running more unit salt trains out of Cleveland, more coal from Toledo and heating fuel from Nanticoke Ontario. The colder and more snow it is, the more profit I make.[:D]

[GDRMCo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Where is the mine rail located?

In Queensland Australia. If you buy/merge with Mine Rail operating here would be like Wisconsin Central operating ATN Access.

[Junctionfan]

What kind of industries / commodities are on this line?

[GDRMCo]

Iron ore, intermodal, export coal, cattle, export produce, sugar cane, a range of minerals including zinc lead and potash, and passengers service

[Junctionfan]

I think I'll buy it next year. I have some railroads from the Rail America or Genesee and Wyoming purchase that might benefit from this.

How come your railroad doesn't want it?