Great Lakes and Atlantic-Dream come true?

[GDRMCo]

Junctionfan could you please email me and we could talk about this in private.

[GDRMCo]

Might the australian rail group be called Atlantic Australia, or Pacific North Transport with each state it operating in being called like Pacific North NSW and Pacific North SA and Pacific North NT and Pacific North WA and Pacific North Vic and Pacific North Queensland.

[GDRMCo]

Sure.

[Junctionfan]

I also would like you to be a member of the board.

[Junctionfan]

Absolutely. I am going to consolidate my other railroads with it.

The consolidation will be with ex Rail America owned Freight Australia and ex Genesse and Wyoming owned Australian Railroad Group Pty. Ltd (ARG).

After doing a bit of research, this is going to be one heck of a merger.

[GDRMCo]

I have already posted the idea of calling it Pacific North Queensland, as you can see in my signature I have already done the logo. Well done you are now the owner of queenslands most profitable rail system. Might I order the new locomotives and be CEO of the subsidiary?

[Junctionfan]

I accept. We will need to make the announcement on the freelanced bulletin thread.

I am going to leave it as a subsidiary and name it Queensland Transportation.

[GDRMCo]

Rest assured you will get your money back in 6 months. We operate a fleet of container ships so that all containers will be shipped to you and you can make money using our leasing program over here by leasing the standard gauge locomotives to the NSW rrs and other states as we have finished regauging the track to 3'6" so we can interchange with QR and Pacific National Queensland.

[GDRMCo]

It will set you back $666,000million Aus and serves Cairns, Townsville and all various small towns and villages in North Queensland

[Junctionfan]

What is the offering price?

Which cities or towns does it go to?

[GDRMCo]

The offer is only until December 31 2004

[GDRMCo]

The Great Dividing Range Mining & Manufacturing Company has not been profitable from operating the Rail system and is planning to sell. This would leave GDRM&MCo with having to get commodities brought to it by another operator and this would cost less than having to operate its own RR.

[Junctionfan]

I think I'll buy it next year. I have some railroads from the Rail America or Genesee and Wyoming purchase that might benefit from this.

How come your railroad doesn't want it?

[GDRMCo]

Iron ore, intermodal, export coal, cattle, export produce, sugar cane, a range of minerals including zinc lead and potash, and passengers service

[Junctionfan]

What kind of industries / commodities are on this line?

[GDRMCo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Where is the mine rail located?

In Queensland Australia. If you buy/merge with Mine Rail operating here would be like Wisconsin Central operating ATN Access.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mloik

Uh oh, Junctionfan,

As an expert on weather and climate (and a native of Mississauga, ON), I can see that you're in for a heck of a winter...frozen ports on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway, unbelievably frozen switches, snow drifts that defy all plows, &c, &c. This is going to cost you big bucks.

And, just wait until you get my bill as a consultant...

Michael
Ben Lomond, California

No problem, it also means that I'll be running more unit salt trains out of Cleveland, more coal from Toledo and heating fuel from Nanticoke Ontario. The colder and more snow it is, the more profit I make.[:D]

[mloik]

Uh oh, Junctionfan,

As an expert on weather and climate (and a native of Mississauga, ON), I can see that you're in for a heck of a winter...frozen ports on the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway, unbelievably frozen switches, snow drifts that defy all plows, &c, &c. This is going to cost you big bucks.

And, just wait until you get my bill as a consultant...

Michael
Ben Lomond, California

[Junctionfan]

Where is the mine rail located?

[GDRMCo]

The Mine Rail has acuired some recently rebuilt Auto Maxes which now ride on passenger standard trucks and features three levels which 2 are passenger areas and the other is for baggage. Would this not be a excellent fleet for the passenger runs and tourism? Also we have too many SD70MACs and other locomotives which cannot be retrucked with narrow gauge trucks. We can deliver them right to the railhead where ever you have a intermodal yard on the water seeing as though we operate a fleet of ore boats and heavy transport ships. We could merge the Mine Rail with GA because the GDRM&MCo is going to sell the Mine Rail. The MR could become Pacific North Queensland Rail, a susdiary of GA.

[GDRMCo]

I'll take the Vice President of Motive Power and Leasing. I could employ some of the Mine Rail's lawyers (high priced fellows you win every court case) to fight against the Dewy Cheatam n' Hall lawyers.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

Even today there's no buisness on the former Milw electric lines or the NSL. I doubt either could have survived any longer than they did. The Sheboygan line is parelleled by the CNW> The Watertown line is parelleled by the MILW road. The MRK line was parelleled by 3 other RRs. The Burlington line has ZERO online industry and the East Troy line has all but dried up. The NSL would have suffered badly from Too much competition and would have been at the mercy of the MILW and the CNW in setting rates.
Why would you deiselize these things anyhow with fuel costs going wild, I think alot of RRs today would like to have some electric RR infrastructure.
Randy

Randy,

Can't disagree with you on these points! TMERL had a little on-line freight traffic, which actually prevented some saving funds from the state legislature, IIRC. The Sheboygan line would not have been part of the package, especially since this line would be hard to reach over streetcar trackage. MRK would have been abandoned soon after the CNSM purchase (parallel track), and the Watertown line may have been abandoned due to lack of traffic by now.

But who knows? Look at the WSOR. They took over a bunch of dead and dying lines, attracted a bunch of customers to add to the relatively few that they had, and are slowly turning the property into a classy railroad! And they have succeeded where predecessors have failed, e.g. MILW/ICG, CM&N, WIWR/CWWR!

So, basically, my theory is as follows: new operators, with a bigger-picture mentality, seize opportunity, make progress and profits where others have not, encourage industrial development (read: customers) along the lines, etc. And heck, if nothing else, it's a dream in my head, and committed to a few pieces of paper scattered here and there amongst the pages of books, magazines, and atlases...

This is fun! [swg]
-Mark
"Milwaukee Central RR"
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

I think you need to read into this more and make some decisions based upon your research. There is no "right" answer. Just remember that the choices you make may have consequences such as strikes or jurisdictional disputes that will cost you money in the long term. These are just part of the problems you will face and although you will have Labor Relations and General Counsel (and their staff) to help you, the ultimate decision will rest with you. We are literally talking about large stakes so it is a CEO decision.

Also, I question your need for a police department. RR police are very expensive and don't produce any revuene. Why have them at all? Your insurance rates will be significantly higher for liability coverage with armed police on staff. Insurers see police and think "Rodney King"...

LC

Which unions have a history of poor negotiations and which ones are good at negotiations?

What is the railroad to do about security?

[Randy Stahl]

If you think you need all those unions, you need to can your managers. In my view a class one is the only one that really needs unions, because class ones don't give a damn about the employees
Randy

[Anonymous]

You might do better starting with a smaller railroad and working larger rather than building such a large system right out of the gate.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

I think you need to read into this more and make some decisions based upon your research. There is no "right" answer. Just remember that the choices you make may have consequences such as strikes or jurisdictional disputes that will cost you money in the long term. These are just part of the problems you will face and although you will have Labor Relations and General Counsel (and their staff) to help you, the ultimate decision will rest with you. We are literally talking about large stakes so it is a CEO decision.

Also, I question your need for a police department. RR police are very expensive and don't produce any revuene. Why have them at all? Your insurance rates will be significantly higher for liability coverage with armed police on staff. Insurers see police and think "Rodney King"...

LC

[Junctionfan]

I need signalmen, train crews, mow crews, office staff, police. Since I operate in Canada as well as the U.S it might be several than just the four unions. Any recommendations on how I should do this?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Who should I keep and who should I can?

What would suggest about the unions? What dictates which union has jurisdiction and where?

It isn't so much a question of who to keep or can, it should be a question of whom is on the board to begin with. You need to carefully analyze how your company was formed and who has ownership (equity) interest and how much. Remember it is the equity that elects the directors. You also need to decide if your company will have "straight" voting or "cumulative" voting of shares as this can dramatically affect who is elected director. Then you need to pick whom is likely to be elected by each group of equity holders and you have some idea what the composition of the Board will be.

As to Unions I suggest you take a look at some of their websites such as www.ble.org, www.utu.org, www.bmwe.org, www.brs.org and others to answer the jurisdictional question.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Who should I keep and who should I can?

What would suggest about the unions? What dictates which union has jurisdiction and where?

[Anonymous]

Oh, and another big kettle of fish...

Which unions will be on your property and what will their jurisdictions be?
How will you handle the fighting amongst the unions? What about remote control? Your shareholders want it because it saves money. With all the money you are spending buying and building things you will need every dime. What about the longer term? Will you seek different pay arrangements for T&E? ow will you handle the Signalmen? BMWE is merging with the Teamsters too, what about that?

And so many more...

LC

[Anonymous]

Also, do you really need a nine person Board of Directors?? Remember, the more people on the Board the greater number needed for a quorum. Suppose the former Rail America directors and G&W directors disagree on a critical point. What then? How will your bylaws be written? Will the members of the Board be compensated? Where will the annual meeting be? Will the Board have the power to hire, fire and set compensation? How will you handle issues company? I assume you will need to be a "C" Corp and also want to have access to the public markets for equity and debt securities? How will you handle that? You are the CEO after all...

I think you need to put in more thought on how you will actually run the company.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Lockport NY to Boston
------------------------------------
After building the bridges between Fort Erie and Tonawanda, we build a diamond over the CSX Belt line. We purchased the Falls Road Railroad from Lockport to Brockport and we puchased the extra rail that connects Brockport to Rochester. Via the Rochester Southern, we went to Maplewood. We eventually convinced the Fingerlakes Railway to merge and we applied to the STB to build about 80 miles of track from Solvay to Bridgewater and 90 miles from Bridgewater to Rotterdam Junction. With approval, the project was completed 5 years later. With the line completed, the Guilford System became an interested party and so many interchange agreements were established. Short time later, we entered into merger talks with the Guilford System which were successful. With the Boston and Maine route, we could run now from Chicago to Boston.

[Anonymous]

I think I'll start a thread on how to start a railroad. Anybody interested?

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Even with a railroad this big?

Andrew-

It is always better to start smaller and grow if necessary. Take a look at how many VPs David Gunn eliminated when he came to Amtrak. They are doing fine without them.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Even with a railroad this big?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I have my operation costs under control Gabe. I have enough lawyers including Robert Shapiro and Johnny Cochrane (definately fantasy land[:D]).

I need department heads. I currently have only a CEO (me), and CFO, COO and Cheif of Security and Legal Services (G&A police included).

Who will step up to the plate?

I think Mark W Hemphill would make a fine Vice President of Research for example; and edblysard a fine Vice President of Security and Legal Services.

Here are the offices you need. Everything else is simply an extra.

CEO
CFO
V.P. Sales and Marketing
V.P. Transportation
V.P. Maintenance and Mechanical
V.P. Labor Relations
General Counsel/Secretary

LC

[Junctionfan]

From Detroit to Chicago.
----------------------------------------
After the purchase of the Ann Arbor, the company had every right to get access to it. We aquired running rights from NS to get from Detroit to Ann Arbor. After that, the Ann Arbor route was upgraded and was double tracked from Ann Arbor to Diann. We than build a wye on to the Indiana and Ohio Railway and it to was double tracked from Diann to Lima. Along the line, we had to build overpasses at Hamler to avoid the CSX Willard line and at NS line at Leipsic. We than built a wye connecting the Indiana Ohio line to the Chicago Fort Wayne and Eastern line. With connections now into Chicago where we owned the Clearing Yard and Blue Island from the Belt Railway of Chicago and Indiana Harbor Belt puchase.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I offer my services as VP of steam excursions.You will aquire a large Canadian steam engine for steam trips,won't you? I propose geting an ex CPR Selkirk.[:)]

Wouldn't VP of steam excursions be like already under VP of Tourism and PR

cpbloom, VP of Tourism and PR [:p]

I love jobs like that. Better not get me in as Executive V.P. or you may need your golden parachutes. I can get a couple extra train crews on that kind of cash...

LC

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

I offer my services as VP of steam excursions.You will aquire a large Canadian steam engine for steam trips,won't you? I propose geting an ex CPR Selkirk.[:)]

Wouldn't VP of steam excursions be like already under VP of Tourism and PR

cpbloom, VP of Tourism and PR [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Thankyou Overmod.

This is who makes up my Board of Directors currently

Chairman of the Board (Executive Commitee) Andrew Hugh Little

Board Members
--------------------------------
William G Pagonis
Charles Swinburn
Mortimer B Fuller III
Robert W Anestis
T Michael Lang
Robert M Melzer
Gary Gibson
Tom Steiniger

This is nice, but really does nothing to build a great railroad without adequate research and planning.

I'm sure Mort Fuller would be happy to tell you that...

LC

[Junctionfan]

Currently I interchange with the WSOR. My Chicago trackage rights are due to the ownership of the Indiana Harbor Belt, Belt Railway of Chicago, Chicago South Shore and South Bend, and last the Chicago Fort Wayne and Eastern.

[Randy Stahl]

Pretty much the same situation with the WSOR. Track is 99% owned by somebody else, namely government consortiums and Union Pacific. Then there's also the trackage rights on CNICWC...

I don't know that there's that much forest product on WSOR anyways, mostly grain elevators that I know of, and plastics. Probably better to leave 'em alone, a nice big shortline/regional makes a better "customer" than a whole bunch of small customers... (this may be the subject of a new thread shortly...)

Besides, I doubt Gardner would give up his railroad. Seems to me WC had talked to him some years back, can anybody confirm this?

Nonetheless, neat topic! My idea for a railroad would go all the way back to the '40s and '50s, first taking over the Milwaukee Electric (TMER&L) lines to Watertown, Mukwonago, and Burlington (WI), dieselizing 'em, and running freight -- lots of freight! Then they'd take over the North Shore when it was abandoned, build a connection to the Oak Creek power plant, and compete with the C&NW to haul coal! Pick up the old Racine & Southwestern to the Quad Cities in the Milwaukee Road meltdown, take over the C&NW Madison line, and be a lean, mean freight railroad operation on castoff interurban and secondary lines.

[2c] and probably more,
-Mark Hintz
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Junctionfan]

Thankyou Overmod.

This is who makes up my Board of Directors currently

Chairman of the Board (Executive Commitee) Andrew Hugh Little

Board Members
--------------------------------
William G Pagonis
Charles Swinburn
Mortimer B Fuller III
Robert W Anestis
T Michael Lang
Robert M Melzer
Gary Gibson
Tom Steiniger

[Overmod]

LC, to me one of the most fun things is watching Andrew thinking and learning about this project. When we started, I think it was a kid's dream. It's developing rather interestingly in ways that I think Andrew realizes are teaching him things of great importance.

And instead of arguing "I'm the CEO and it's going to be MY dream", he amends his story and his plans to better fit with the realities of the situation...

I like it.

[Overmod]

espeefoamer, why bother with those Canadian engines when you have a perfectly good, at least partly restored 2-10-4 available in Pittsburgh?

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

....Anyways back to my railroad.

The company needs to start expanding and we need to go to New York. I propose a line that goes from Syracuse to Binghamton (might buy the existing NYSW line if available) and from Binghamton, travel along the Deleware River to New York (I think it will be parallel to NS). This will greatly expand our intermodal potential as well as general merchandise opportunities now to both New York, Binghamton and the other cities with rail demand along the way.

Andrew-

First make a service application (Mr. Chaaalie apply blake prease...), NYS&W's line from Syracuse to Binghamton is owned by various subdivisions of New York State. NYS&W is largely controlled by NS and CSX who paid a punishing amount of money to buy that influence. They won't sell to an outsider. Even if they did, the state would have to approve it.

Second, the NYS&W does not have a line east of Binghamton. That is the NS Southern Tier Line that NYS&W has trackage rights only over it. The NS is very touchy about the whole thing and then there are the issues with MN and NJT that operate commuter service on the line east of Port Jervis, NY.

LC

Pretty much the same situation with the WSOR. Track is 99% owned by somebody else, namely government consortiums and Union Pacific. Then there's also the trackage rights on CNICWC...

I don't know that there's that much forest product on WSOR anyways, mostly grain elevators that I know of, and plastics. Probably better to leave 'em alone, a nice big shortline/regional makes a better "customer" than a whole bunch of small customers... (this may be the subject of a new thread shortly...)

Besides, I doubt Gardner would give up his railroad. Seems to me WC had talked to him some years back, can anybody confirm this?

Nonetheless, neat topic! My idea for a railroad would go all the way back to the '40s and '50s, first taking over the Milwaukee Electric (TMER&L) lines to Watertown, Mukwonago, and Burlington (WI), dieselizing 'em, and running freight -- lots of freight! Then they'd take over the North Shore when it was abandoned, build a connection to the Oak Creek power plant, and compete with the C&NW to haul coal! Pick up the old Racine & Southwestern to the Quad Cities in the Milwaukee Road meltdown, take over the C&NW Madison line, and be a lean, mean freight railroad operation on castoff interurban and secondary lines.

[2c] and probably more,
-Mark Hintz
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod


If I may extend a bit on LC's comments regarding sensible routings: I'm sure it's fun to just imagine that you have acquired lots of Northeastern railroads 'because you can' -- but I think it would be far more fun to imagine that you have to acquire these lines from the appropriate entities or people, and then have to compete in the real world against those that are left. I might start by:

1) Deciding which main lines and trackage comprise my 'core business'
2) Determining who owns that trackage, and how I might acquire it from them
3) Finding the current owner, lessor, etc. of the ROWs I may want to use (e.g. ex-NYO&W route mileage) and figuring out what needs to be done (public hearings, alternative-use proposals, placating NIMBY property owners adjacent to trackage, etc.)
4) Procedures to request trackage rights -- and conditions of service, etc. over those rights -- from other railroads to bridge gaps or provide temporary service while other ROW acquisitions or improvements are in progress.

A combination of these approaches, for instance, should give you the ability to run multiple independent routes in key lanes, which would then allow directional routing to eliminate 'running meets' from your CTC programming at important times, and as a consequence eliminate much of any need to double-track particular lines to increase capacity up to the point that demand would warrant the capital expense and effort.

Then build and expand operations in the 'classic' railroad manner -- justifying the improvements in real terms, and making the necessary tradeoffs when needed.

OM-

I agree with much of what is quoted above. Some years ago I read an of article concerning a man who modeled the "VIrginian & Ohio Railroad (V&O) and how hw spent a great deal of time actually figuring out realistic practices for his railroad based upon prototype lines such as the B&O, C&O, N&W, Virginian and others. He also figured out how his line could and would compete with the others and what routes it had built. If you look at those articles you will quickly see how hard it was to even get to that point. Andrew has proposed a much larger endeavor that will be substantially more complicated.

I'm also not sure that Andrew realizes the size and extent of either Rail America or Genesee & Wyoming in terms of both finance and railroad holdings (Andrew, feel free to jump in) but they both are sizeable RR holding companies.

I think the ideas are interesting and fun to work with, but lack a fair amount of depth, so far. But, isn't that part of the fun?

LC

[espeefoamer]

I offer my services as VP of steam excursions.You will aquire a large Canadian steam engine for steam trips,won't you? I propose geting an ex CPR Selkirk.[:)]

[Junctionfan]

Unfortunately, I need people like you Overmod, Limitedclear, M.W Hemphill to name a few, to give me the heads up on what goes on in this part of "my territory".

I can't even give an accurate amount of trains I operate or what kind of business I serve beyond my area. I have a pretty good idea what I can do and what stuff I can run but beyond that, I would like to know where everything is and what routes I can take to be more protolanced.

I can give you a vague idea of how I was able to aquire the CASO line.

I was able to get the line between Attercliffe and Tilsonburg easily enough since there was no track. Since I operated as Trillium Railways which operated in the Niagara Region and St.Thomas area, convincing the local governments to let me use it wasn't difficult. Since CP and CN were not really using it, I told them that they should either use it, or sell it. Since they had no intention of using it, I told them that I wanted it and that they knew if I took them to court and claimed they were breaching the Competition Act, they agreed to sell it to me. That nearly caused me bankruptcy until I found that NS planned on using it for autoparts to St.Thomas and CSX wanted to run a couple of trains from Buffalo to Michigan. I sold trackage rights to CSX and NS which eventually helped to pay off the debt. I eventually was able to slowly buy more of the line towards Windsor. I had to give CN trackage rights because at the time they owned the yard at St.Thomas which eventually bought off of them including the rest of their customers on the route. After awhile, NS sold me their customers in the area too. Now that I ran toward the tunnel, I found a snag. CP and CN uses this tunnel but not very well. I decided to attempt to buy the tunnel and found the bank would not guarentee a loan for it so I was stuck. CP and CN were being real pains and I wasn't the only shortline to suffer from them. I decided to open talks between the two biggest shortline businesses effected; Rail America and the Genesse and Wyoming. We decided that a consolidation of our assets would benefit our survival against the class 1s and that with out territory, they could not deny our ROWs. We began the consolidation and I was appointed as the President and CEO of the newly formed Great Lakes and Atlantic Railroad. With our purchasing power, the class 1s were going to get serious competition. We bought the Ann Arbor railroad which was easy to convice the State of Michigan after giving a lengthy long-term plan which was to compete against the class 1s. With the Ann Arbor purchase, we now had a legitamate claim for a ROW through the WIndsor/ Detroit tunnel. We were able to meet an agreement and we purchased the tunnel and promised fair trackage rights to both CP and CN. Eventually, CN decided to just run exclusively through their Sarnia tunnel, leaving just CP. That was o.k for the western half. Now came the business with the eastern half. Because we bought the CASO, we were givin rights to diamond across the CP Hamilton Sub. CP didn't want a diamond their but didn't have much of a choice. They threaten to take us to court and so we threatened to deny access to the Windsor / Detroit tunnel. They decided to co-operate. Being fair and reasonable, I told the CP that we didn't have to interfere if they sold us the empty land that ran between Welland Yard into the Canal tunnel. Since I pretended to only go to Fort Erie, CP didn't have a problem with it. They sold me the land which was great because building another tunnel or a bridge is quite expensive. CP was forced by the city of Niagara Falls, to abandon their line stretching towards Niagara Falls N.Y and so was forced to extend the line to Buffalo and payed CN to join their Buffalo line. By doing this, CP had to diamond across my tracks. We decided that we could put a diamond across the line. CN became a major pain for the CP trains and was charging them to much money for use of the International Bridge at Fort Erie so CP and the G&A built a line that ran from Port Colborne East, across Grand Island and towards the CSX Belt line at Tonawanda. Since it was a joint project, we share the costs and we agreed that we were both entitled to use it. I extended the new line towards Lockport and bought the relatively non-used line from Lockport to Rochester for ROW at the G&A's Rochester&Southern line.

[Overmod]

I stand properly, and humbly, corrected regarding freight operations south over NJT and Metro-North from Port Jervis. In partial defense, I hadn't realized how the world changed after the Conrail sell-off. My last sighting of freight on the ex-Erie main was in Ridgewood (and to tell you about how long ago that was, one locomotive was brand-new Conrail 6740!) At that time, the 'story' was that freight was being routed via the old West Shore line, and nothing but peddlers would operate on NJT except under unusual conditions (high wide movements, etc.) Obviously, that wouldn't prevail after CSX took over their portion of Conrail trackage...

If I may extend a bit on LC's comments regarding sensible routings: I'm sure it's fun to just imagine that you have acquired lots of Northeastern railroads 'because you can' -- but I think it would be far more fun to imagine that you have to acquire these lines from the appropriate entities or people, and then have to compete in the real world against those that are left. I might start by:

1) Deciding which main lines and trackage comprise my 'core business'
2) Determining who owns that trackage, and how I might acquire it from them
3) Finding the current owner, lessor, etc. of the ROWs I may want to use (e.g. ex-NYO&W route mileage) and figuring out what needs to be done (public hearings, alternative-use proposals, placating NIMBY property owners adjacent to trackage, etc.)
4) Procedures to request trackage rights -- and conditions of service, etc. over those rights -- from other railroads to bridge gaps or provide temporary service while other ROW acquisitions or improvements are in progress.

A combination of these approaches, for instance, should give you the ability to run multiple independent routes in key lanes, which would then allow directional routing to eliminate 'running meets' from your CTC programming at important times, and as a consequence eliminate much of any need to double-track particular lines to increase capacity up to the point that demand would warrant the capital expense and effort.

Then build and expand operations in the 'classic' railroad manner -- justifying the improvements in real terms, and making the necessary tradeoffs when needed.

I suspect this would very quickly resolve your question regarding pendular trains (with a relatively positive chance of outcome) and new "TGV-class" line construction in northern New Jersey and southeast-to-central New York (much less so).

One thing I'm surprised hasn't reared its head is a rather obvious one: joint "GL&A - MetroNorth" action either to reopen the Poughkeepsie Bridge connection or to work out the new Tappan Zee replacement. There is apparently meaningful support for an "all-New York" passenger rail connection that would connect services west of the Hudson to lines into Manhattan. Currently, everything has to run over considerable New Jersey mileage, which could be eliminated rather easily with the Tappan Zee link (I've seen several proposals batted around for the western shore connections) and with a bit more effort for Poughkeepsie. Load restrictions on a rebuilt Poughkeepsie bridge might not be up to unit-coal-train standards... but would surely support intermodal trains with power similar to that on the 'experimental' NS 25A trains in the NEC. Some interesting possibilities rear their heads, don't they...

[Junctionfan]

My idea is to tap into the intermodal market. The railroad is about 15 years old.
I want to go to New York to run intermodal to and from Toronto, Chicago, Montreal, Detroit, Cincinnati. Plus I can extend the line to Philadelphia at a later date and run the traffic there.

I plan on running at least 36 trains on the way or to and from New York. If I junction off into Philadelphia, traffic would likely increase at a minimum of 50%. There are a couple of shortlines that can get me into Indianapolis and I plan to exploit than opportunity and so I can run a couple of New York / Indianapolis trains as well.

I'm pretty confident that a new line would pay for itself over all.

[Anonymous]

I might suggest hardly being a business man, but something that makes sense, and that is a survey of all depts, recources, and operating costs of the lines that you have acquiered before even thinking about future plans.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Thankyou for the advice. In that case I will have to build the line from scatch but that will happen in 3 years because it would be out of my budget and would negatively effect my fiscal planning. Unless the shareholders give me permission to stray from the budget, I have to wait in 2007/2008.

Andrew-

I'm not sure how you have a budget established this early. I would think you would need to perform due diligence concerning potential traffic, establish routes and interchanges and calculate a pro forma set of revenues and costs before you could begin to budget. That is the realistic way to plan. Oh, and remember, try to be realistic with rates.

LC

[Anonymous]

Andrew-

You are lucky that your project is imaginary and based upon models. The real thing is much more difficult. As to your route questions:

1. The NYS&W between Syracuse and Binghamton follows the west bank of the Tioughnioga River south of Cortland. On the east bank is I-81. I don't know that there is an easy way to parallel it for miles in either direction.

2. East of Binghamton. I think you need to think more about your traffic base before you worry so much about routes. Think of all the lines that competed for traffic between NYC and Buffalo in times past. Look at the routes of the NYC, Erie, DL&W, LV, CNJ, and PRR. Remember also that most traffic no longer is gatewayed through Buffalo unless it is heading into Canada. It goes to gateways in Chicago, St. Louis and even KC. Plan accordingly.

3. If you haven't already,get a copy of"The Railroad, What it is, What it does" and read it. You will learn a great deal about what goes into some of the choices you can make and what their consequences will be as RR Sr. management.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Hey LC

I could use you in my management team.

[Junctionfan]

I don't think NS or CSX (my competition) would allow me trackage rights on their lines so I don't know how much choice I would have. You're right.....now that I have done some of the math. There would be double tracking, some tunneling, cuts, bridges and some fills. Thank God this would be a 2007/2008 project.

Is there anyway I could get some kind of law to secure trackage rights if I decided to go that way? Would NS be more interested if I payed for another track on their line to share from Binghampton to New York? Would it be easier for me to just say what the heck and just build from scatch?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I would not like to have to go through the pains of trackage rights agreement or lack of. It would be cheaper in the long run if I just built a new route and not spend the money on court battles and spend money on my competition.

Andrew-

Not to defecate on your dynamo here, but I think you need to brush up on your beancounting here. Building a new mainline with signals will run at least $2Million a mile NOT including the cost of acquiring the ROW. That ROW will be expensive indeed in that area of the world. There are reasons that few new railroads are being built and ROW availability and cost is high on the list. Just to build from Binghamton to NJ would be a multi $Billion$ undertaking. I realize this is imaginary, but I'm hoping to pull this down to near reality. If not, you'll lose out on a great learning experience on how railroads work. Trackage rights are always cheaper than building new. Just think of how many large RRs will accept TRs on a competitors line so they can shut a parallel line and tear it up.

LC

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Are you talking about the D&H line that runs between Binghamton and Scanton? Is it owned by anybody? Where is Suskie and what route (including cities) would you recommend I go? Does the tunnel except doublestacks?

It is owned by CP Rail as is all that remains of the D&H.

LC

I thought so; that route is no good.

[Junctionfan]

I would not like to have to go through the pains of trackage rights agreement or lack of. It would be cheaper in the long run if I just built a new route and not spend the money on court battles and spend money on my competition.

[Junctionfan]

What kind of room do I have for paralleling the NYS&W from Syracuse to Binghamton?

LC which way should I go from Binghamton in order to get towards New York area. Keeping in mind that I would like to have the option of easy access (includes the likely need to lay new track) to get to Trenton and Philadelphia?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Are you talking about the D&H line that runs between Binghamton and Scanton? Is it owned by anybody? Where is Suskie and what route (including cities) would you recommend I go? Does the tunnel except doublestacks?

It is owned by CP Rail as is all that remains of the D&H.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Last I looked, it was a relatively long way from Port Jervis to New York, and the only available lines that link them are NJT. Not much likelihood of new freight on the ex-Erie mains...

OM-

You neglect to realize that NS has trackage rights (as did Conrail) over the Tier all the way down through Suffern on to NJT Mainline to the Bergen County Line at Ridgewood Jct to Croxton Yard. Ran many a train that way myself. The freight flows just fine.

Andrew-

"Suskie" is slang for NYS&W.

LC

[Overmod]

Last I looked, it was a relatively long way from Port Jervis to New York, and the only available lines that link them are NJT. Not much likelihood of new freight on the ex-Erie mains...

[Junctionfan]

Are you talking about the D&H line that runs between Binghamton and Scanton? Is it owned by anybody? Where is Suskie and what route (including cities) would you recommend I go? Does the tunnel except doublestacks?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

I, for one, would be infinitely fascinated to see how anyone gets down the "Deleware River" to New York from Binghamton.

I have to conclude that the New York City area is what you mean, because going 'from Binghamton to New York State' would be like going from Toronto south to Ontario in Canadian terms... rather difficult.

Delaware = Philadelphia
HUDSON = New York City

Delaware and Hudson = railroad intended in part to link the two

Suskie goes as close to NYC as you need; they also have a very interesting nearly-forgotten tunnel under the Palisades that AFAIK is still not used for anything (I last walked it in the late 1990s). You'll need to reconstruct some track between the Public Service plant on Overpeck Creek to get the line in service, but it's graded for double track over the meadows...

Very easy transfer to the West Shore line, too, if you are interested in terminal-end access over trackage rights.

OM-

You really need to look at a map. The Delaware River is reached from Binghamton by the Southern Tier Line by going over the mountain at Gulf Summit and follows the Delaware River east to Port Jervis. This is the route of the Erie Railroad main line and goes to New Jersey (mileposts are set to Jersey City) across the river (Hudson) from NYC. In the olden days ferries took passengers to NYC. No Philly involvement.

LC

[Overmod]

I, for one, would be infinitely fascinated to see how anyone gets down the "Deleware River" to New York from Binghamton.

I have to conclude that the New York City area is what you mean, because going 'from Binghamton to New York State' would be like going from Toronto south to Ontario in Canadian terms... rather difficult.

Delaware = Philadelphia
HUDSON = New York City

Delaware and Hudson = railroad intended in part to link the two

Suskie goes as close to NYC as you need; they also have a very interesting nearly-forgotten tunnel under the Palisades that AFAIK is still not used for anything (I last walked it in the late 1990s). You'll need to reconstruct some track between the Public Service plant on Overpeck Creek to get the line in service, but it's graded for double track over the meadows...

Very easy transfer to the West Shore line, too, if you are interested in terminal-end access over trackage rights.

[Junctionfan]

Thankyou for the advice. In that case I will have to build the line from scatch but that will happen in 3 years because it would be out of my budget and would negatively effect my fiscal planning. Unless the shareholders give me permission to stray from the budget, I have to wait in 2007/2008.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

....Anyways back to my railroad.

The company needs to start expanding and we need to go to New York. I propose a line that goes from Syracuse to Binghamton (might buy the existing NYSW line if available) and from Binghamton, travel along the Deleware River to New York (I think it will be parallel to NS). This will greatly expand our intermodal potential as well as general merchandise opportunities now to both New York, Binghamton and the other cities with rail demand along the way.

Andrew-

First make a service application (Mr. Chaaalie apply blake prease...), NYS&W's line from Syracuse to Binghamton is owned by various subdivisions of New York State. NYS&W is largely controlled by NS and CSX who paid a punishing amount of money to buy that influence. They won't sell to an outsider. Even if they did, the state would have to approve it.

Second, the NYS&W does not have a line east of Binghamton. That is the NS Southern Tier Line that NYS&W has trackage rights only over it. The NS is very touchy about the whole thing and then there are the issues with MN and NJT that operate commuter service on the line east of Port Jervis, NY.

LC

[Junctionfan]

I think the railroad is going to purchase a four unit double deck DMU from Colarado Railcar for $13.8 million US for the tourists. It is quite fuel efficient and it can fit a maximum of 776 passengers.

[Junctionfan]

....Anyways back to my railroad.

The company needs to start expanding and we need to go to New York. I propose a line that goes from Syracuse to Binghamton (might buy the existing NYSW line if available) and from Binghamton, travel along the Deleware River to New York (I think it will be parallel to NS). This will greatly expand our intermodal potential as well as general merchandise opportunities now to both New York, Binghamton and the other cities with rail demand along the way.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I don't know. I think the Providence and Worchester or one of the 3 Guilford System railroads bought. Where does the line go?

Andrew-

Think research. The P&W is an independent publicly traded company. It is not now and never has been owned by Guilford.

LC

I know that LC. How in the blue heck did you manage to think that I said that the Providence and Worchester was part of the Guilford Systems?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I don't know. I think the Providence and Worchester or one of the 3 Guilford System railroads bought. Where does the line go?

Andrew-

Think research. The P&W is an independent publicly traded company. It is not now and never has been owned by Guilford.

LC

[cpbloom]

Are there any full-length domes still around we can aquire?

[Junctionfan]

I don't know. I think the Providence and Worchester or one of the 3 Guilford System railroads bought. Where does the line go?

[Anonymous]

How much track did they own anyways, 3.6 Miles?

[Junctionfan]

Sure. Sneak it through so we don't get caught by L.C the regional FRA pain in the butt.[:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Junctionfan: I can sell you some D&H Track- I already painted over all their boxcars-
[:D] [:D]

[Junctionfan]

Our company's plan over the next 2 years is to extend our lines into Colombus, Ohio for intermodal and general merchandise services. Also, the purchase of the Wisconsin Southern for the purpose of servicing the demands of the wood and wood products industry as well as the reintroduction of intermodal service in Green Bay.

The railroad has recently secured a contract with UPS to ship intermodal between Worchester Ma and Chicago. We are shipping waste from the Sydney tar ponds in Nova Scotia to Chicago for transfer to the ECDC Environmental via Union Pacific. We are shipping trash from Toronto to Michigan. We secured a contract for tourism shuttling between Toronto and Niagara Falls, Ontario and Buffalo to Niagara Falls.

Things are going great for the Great Lakes and Atlantic Railroad (at least on my layout)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

We'll see about that.

Yeah, I guess you're right, five days should be more than enough.

LC

[Junctionfan]

We'll see about that.

[Anonymous]

I'll be the Regional FRA Administrator. You can stay in business for a week.

LC

[Junctionfan]

I don't know if we can afford to buy them this year. I have already ordered 50 trash gondolas from Trinity for the Toronto/ Michigan run and I ordered 80 automax cars from Greenbrier for the assembly plant contracts.

What is the price of this?

[Overmod]

What else? Domes, domes, more domes, Alaska Railroad glass-top car, and a Skytop (I know where there are two available). Might be nice if Doyle McCormack's PA can be ready in time to pull the train (hint: we can subsidize some of the work and volunteer to help out if necessary) or else borrow the slantnose ACL 501 from NCTM.

[Junctionfan]

O.K, sounds good. What kind of equipment are we looking at?

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a great idea.

[cpbloom]

I say we operate the Pittsburgh-Buffalo excursion in the fall so our passengers can take in and appreciate the Western PA. fall colors. I expect a great turnout since I'm going to run a full page ad in Trains Magazine.

[Junctionfan]

No but I do have a port in Toledo, Chicago and Montreal for train/ship lifts.

[Anonymous]

I am In for the sales department...Do you have a Tug and Barge Department?

[jchnhtfd]

Junction -- I love this thread!

The Ogdensburgh & Lake Champlain was picked up by the Central Vermont, and then went to the Rutland. Then various others... come to think of it, you probably do already own what's left of it!

The old junction at Rouse's Point, New York (the Adirondack stops there for customs) is an interesting place, if you're interested in bygones -- and an amazing amount of the track is still there. Used to be a junction between the Rutland/O&LC, CN, CP, Delaware & Hudson, and Central Vermont! Busy place! Go there now and you'll have to wake the Customs folks up if you're after about 8:00 PM...

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cpbloom

As VP of Tourism and PR, I'd like to set up a round trip rail excursion from Pittsburgh to Buffalo (Niagara Falls).

What kind of ridership do you expect? When should we operate this if it is voted on?

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

My legal representatives, Fleecem & Sue, have informed me that the railroad I meant you to pick up is the Ogdensburgh & Lake Champlain, not the NYO&W... old men are entitled to lapses!

Who owns it? It doesn't already belong to the G&A does it? (we own the Genesse&Wyoming group and Rail America)

[jchnhtfd]

My legal representatives, Fleecem & Sue, have informed me that the railroad I meant you to pick up is the Ogdensburgh & Lake Champlain, not the NYO&W... old men are entitled to lapses!

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jruppert

You don't have a department to oversee maintenace, and mechanical standards.

That is included with the VP of Real Estate and Property Management job. New mechanical standards are givin to each department through the Department of Research (VP of Research oversees this)

[Anonymous]

You don't have a department to oversee maintenace, and mechanical standards.

[cpbloom]

As VP of Tourism and PR, I'd like to set up a round trip rail excursion from Pittsburgh to Buffalo (Niagara Falls).

[Junctionfan]

If it's any consolation, we are not repainting the engines; just renumbering them.

Cheaper.

[railman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Sorry Junctionfan,

But the law offices of Dewy Cheatam n' Hall have just been employed by Gabe Hawkins to file an injunction (no punn intended) against the Great Lakes & Atlantic Railway.

Mr. Hawkins is aware of your Canadian ancestory and has yet to recover from the Canadians taking over his beloved Illinois Central and Wisconsin Central. Although Mr. Hawkins is rumored to be fond of Canadians, he has seen enough and cannot stand the thought of another American Railway succombing to his brothers to the north.

milwaukee road fans in mourning concur with this course of action.

[Junctionfan]

Banks be damned; the government is in my pocket.

hahahahahahahaha (evil laugh)

[Anonymous]

All this is well and good, just remember the bankers Blindem and Robbem have a long distinguished history of railroad questions in finance.

[Overmod]

Aha! I retract previous comments! Name works *perfectly* well on that ground...

But are they $chei$ter$?

To paraphrase St. Augustine, I've been for tort reform ... but under the present circumstances, Lord ... not yet.

[Junctionfan]

Don't forget the law firm of Perot, Chiseller and Slick

[gabe]

Actually, I did "make up" that name roughly five years ago. When I was in law school 1L moot court, each group of participants had to make up the name of their own lawfirm to list on our briefs. The "correct" spelling had already been taken, so we decided to change the spelling to achieve something close. I have forever since used that name anytime I reference a make-believe lawfirm.

Gabe

[Overmod]

Gabe, if you made up the old vaudeville gag Dewey, Cheatum and Howe you must be about 110 years old. Congratulations on remaining in such good health! Even the Three Stooges used this, back in the '30s.

Seriously -- or perhaps unseriously would be a better word -- the 'Cheatham' is a less unlikely spelling for a 'dignified' senior law partner (even if it started off being a more 'Faulknerian' (or Falknerian, incidentally using the original form) spelling).

There's a rival law firm by the name of Roger, Futter and Swive, btw. (of the late Keith Laumer's origination). I leave you to fill in the first names; all we were given was that one of the Roger family partners was John Thomas Roger...

[Junctionfan]

It's too late....resistance is futile. How many railroads do you think are owned by Rail America and the Genesse Wyoming (lots). When we consolidated, we just joined in the lines at least around the Great Lakes, and made the mainlines. Too bad I couldn't have bought the BLE and the others before CN got their grubby little hands into it.

Oh well, the Buffalo and Pittsburgh lines can take care of the abandoned CN customers there too.

[gabe]

They don't represent a railroad; they represent me and my purely selfish interest in not seeing another railroad go the way IC and WC did. But, you are right, they will take the ca$e.

Gabe

[cpbloom]

If they are a smart lawfirm they will clearly understand that no railroad stands idly by and get "absorbed" by another as if they are powerless to do anything (except maybe help).

If they are an even smarter lawfirm they will blindly accept the ca$e.

[gabe]

Is it possible to misspell last names you make up? Oh the existential debate that rages in my head.

[Overmod]

Gabe, when did Mr. Howe retire, and when did Mr. Hall make partner?

And the middle man's name is CHEATHAM. Howard E. Cheatham, Esq. He tends to be litigious when misspelled...

[JoeKoh]

Im not scared. I'll take Marketing and customer service.Look out ns and csx
stay safe
Joe

[gabe]

I will boycot bacon, Labatts Blue, and Celine Dion if this thing goes through.

[Junctionfan]

Good luck with that; my lawyers will tie it up in court for years if it goes through. I do plan on buying the Wisconsin Southern and taking over all the neglected CN customers there next year as well as the E J&E.

Make no mistake America; our company maybe Canadian in origin but unlike the other class 1s, we care about our customers and their prosperity. If they prosper, we prosper. You have nothing to worry about.

[gabe]

Sorry Junctionfan,

But the law offices of Dewy Cheatam n' Hall have just been employed by Gabe Hawkins to file an injunction (no punn intended) against the Great Lakes & Atlantic Railway.

Mr. Hawkins is aware of your Canadian ancestory and has yet to recover from the Canadians taking over his beloved Illinois Central and Wisconsin Central. Although Mr. Hawkins is rumored to be fond of Canadians, he has seen enough and cannot stand the thought of another American Railway succombing to his brothers to the north.

[Overmod]

Mitch -- start by giving him a herald and logo to replace that ghastly thing he puts in his signature... ;-}

I have a vision of the "Proudly Serving North America" as a banner on the long hood, with paired flags of the two nations in parallel ... the US flag leading Canadian on one side, Canadian leading on the other ... much like the UP long-hood flags -- rather than using the slogan on the cab a la '70s Union Pacific "We Pan-Handle It"

This puts the numbers on the cab, gold outline with some deep color, engine-turning embossed into the (vinyl self-adhesive) stock used for the numbers. What's the right "company" typeface for the numbers and lettering?

Number boards should be some hue of yellow or orange, in reverse, on dark background (as that's the most visible by actual test).

Does he use the three-light Canadian-style markers? Be sure there are IR transceivers in there for non-radio line-of-sight wireless communication... ;-}

And, of course, variable-deflection Gyra-Lite type anticollision (you can adjust the 'wobble' of the beam, and perhaps also modulate the speed of rotation within limits, so that it can act as a spotlight does). Not a replacement for alternate-flashing ditch lights, of course -- those light the roadbed and sides, down low, so provide optics like projector-beam headlights (and perhaps put strobe tubes in the housings that synchronize with signals from 'grade crossing cams' to give better lighting to 'malefactors' ...

Dark blue for the Atlantic
Light blue above for big sky
Gold lettering and striping for wheat? I'd look at a modified NYC lightning stripe for general contour; Sterzing said he'd have picked it for the Sharks if he'd seen it before he approved the Warbonnet model...

Get hold of Raytheon and have them gin up a larger version of the NightDriver system for the engineer -- cost-effective, fixes forever any problem with 800-foot visibility for the engine crew, and almost certainly can be made to interface with the cab control and communications systems.

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion

I'll concur with the tourisim and PR part for you, Would you let me take the pictures?

Its yours

[Anonymous]

I'll take on art and advertising. Posters for everyone, but I want to lay out the trainmen's uniform specs as well. Computer tickets should still come out on Association Ticket Paper.

Sounds like a fit, I must commit.
Mitch

[Anonymous]

I'll concur with the tourisim and PR part for you, Would you let me take the pictures?

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Don't laugh, guys -- funnier things have happened in the la-la-land which characterises big corporations these days!

Junction -- why not pick up some of the trackage on the south shore of the St. Lawrence (the old New York, Ontario & Western) while you're at it -- and maybe the St. Johnsbury and Lamoille County too!

I do own the Providence and Worchester, Guilford Systems, St. Lawrence and Atlantic and the Montreal Maine and Atlantic around that area.

[cpbloom]

Come on don't be so critical, play along.

I'll take VP of Tourism and P.R.

[jchnhtfd]

Don't laugh, guys -- funnier things have happened in the la-la-land which characterises big corporations these days!

Junction -- why not pick up some of the trackage on the south shore of the St. Lawrence (the old New York, Ontario & Western) while you're at it -- and maybe the St. Johnsbury and Lamoille County too!

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion

Now that's a new one on me, a railroad that is a charity, how novel[#dots].

More than a few railroads have turned into nonprofits, albeit unintentially....

[Junctionfan]

I have my operation costs under control Gabe. I have enough lawyers including Robert Shapiro and Johnny Cochrane (definately fantasy land[:D]).

I need department heads. I currently have only a CEO (me), and CFO, COO and Cheif of Security and Legal Services (G&A police included).

Who will step up to the plate?

I think Mark W Hemphill would make a fine Vice President of Research for example; and edblysard a fine Vice President of Security and Legal Services.

[Anonymous]

Make sure all those VPs know how to operate a shovel and get some useful work out of them.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Now that's a new one on me, a railroad that is a charity, how novel[#dots].

[gabe]

Oh, so we will be a non-profit operation then?

Did I mention non-profit operations need lawyers as well?

Gabe

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Randy is absolutely right.

There is no way your railway will be able to pay the 200 high-priced lawyers that it will need--and who doesn't--to be able to be a proper company if it has all of those high-priced positions.

While we are at it, we better cut some of the non-managerial positions too. After all, with lawyers on board, do we really need to worry about safety?

Last, but not least, we better make sure we cancel all fan excursions. We don't want our legal department over worked by all of the legal problems that can result from such frivolous activity.

We should not get rid of the Chief financial officer though; got to keep him or her on board to make sure the lawyers get paid.

Gabe

I don't run like CN; and no E Hunter Harrison isn't welcome on my board of directors.

[Overmod]

Randy, if there's a phone tapping department, it's a VP and his ILLegal staff. (Perhaps the socialist government in Canada freely condones wiretaps whenever a philosopher-king railroad president deems them desirable, though ;-})

Why not hire all those poor management types Uncle Pete sacked earlier this year? They need jobs, too...

[gabe]

I hadn't really thought about it; but, if it means more lawyers, it can't possibly be a bad thing. Right?

[Randy Stahl]

Gabe.... What are you saying ? does this RR need a phone tapping dept ? and the appropriate VP and his legal staff to go with it ?

Randy

[gabe]

Randy is absolutely right.

There is no way your railway will be able to pay the 200 high-priced lawyers that it will need--and who doesn't--to be able to be a proper company if it has all of those high-priced positions.

While we are at it, we better cut some of the non-managerial positions too. After all, with lawyers on board, do we really need to worry about safety?

Last, but not least, we better make sure we cancel all fan excursions. We don't want our legal department over worked by all of the legal problems that can result from such frivolous activity.

We should not get rid of the Chief financial officer though; got to keep him or her on board to make sure the lawyers get paid.

Gabe

[Junctionfan]

I have already been operating for a while. I operate over 400 trains a day. I purchased the several trucking companies including Trans X and TST Overland. I run from Boston to Montreal, Boston to Chicago, Buffalo to Pittsburgh, Detroit to Cincinnati, London Ontario to Toronto plus the Ontario Nortland.

This is why I need all the management and must be decent railfans. Workers aren't the problem-got plenty from the existing shortline companies.

[Randy Stahl]

Sounds top heavy to me, what do you need all those high paid VPs for anyhow ? If your going to startup , you need more practical RR men rather than tossing away large sums of ca***hat you havn't earned yet on people that sit behind desks . Perhaps in time you will be able to expand.
Randy