And now for something else special:
Who remembers the live crossing gates on the Pascack Valley line in Hackensack? Still manual, and attended by people in green-and-cream towers, into the U34CH era...
... and I still remember the joy of finding a wig-wag crossing signal in the 1970s, on the portion of the Northern branch above Closter.
The GG1's were an awesome machine. When Amtrak scrapped them, there were 4 laid up in the days yard at Waldwick along with a pair of Erie Stillwell coaches and some other rolling stock. Spent an hour or so going thru the GG and just sitting in the engineer's seat . It was kinda sad to know they were being cut up but was a great experience to just walk thru one.
The wig-wag near Closter you're talking about was in Norwood--Broadway I believe--my Dad used to maintain that one many moons ago---remember that one well.
The NRHS or National Railway Historical Soceity name I have a problem with. I liked Conrail Technical Soceity because it dealt with the nuts and bolts of todays railroad. It would seem and does seem to younger folks that anything that has "historical" deals with the past. The reality of this is that there is plenty of folks who love the Mod age of railroading despite being around older fudydudy naysayers (who I learn a lot from). I dont blame them for there negativity because a lot has changed since the downhill days of the Penn Central. Look what the greatest generation went through WW2 and the dismantaling of the greatest railroad systems on the planet while we were helping build up europes system.
Then you have the "National" part of NRHS....which means for the most part I see little coverage in Trains mag. However right next to your mag in the Barnes and Noble rack is British and sometimes German trains mags that cover railroads from all over the world. I propose that we should rename NRHS to the International Railway Technical Soceity.
Come to think of it what mod group of any afinity group in 2013 uses "Society" anymore. Facebook uses "Freinds" or Group......
As far as Amtrak Vs the Europe Model , one is based on captalism and the other is based on socialism.
I find it intresting that Ayn Rand used a railroad as a model for her philsophy in her book Atlas Shrugged. The reality is that railroads by there very nature are a public private partnership. Could the Union Pacific been built without any federal intervention? The power to condem land and have a private police force is huge indeed. Where would we be if Conrail had never been created? Also remember the railroads were forced by the ICC and there gov granted charters to run passenger trains and Amtrak was created to releive them of that responsiblity with the "buy in" of the member railroads as stockholders as a Gov supported co-op. A national passenger ralroad would have had to be created anyway because something had to be done about the balkanization of passenger services as it ran with 10 different Class 1s and Class 2 runing train service. Futhermore the ICC would not let railroads raise fares to cover costs to the point where the Pennsy and the Penn Central made there trains run with heat in the summer and air condistioning in the winter to drive away customers ( See "To Hell in a Day Coach")
As a member of the Fuddy-duddy naysayer group--I'd have to say that there is some merit to your view.
Modern railroading has some pretty interesting aspects. Some of the technical improvents are awesome. Maybe it's just that having been lucky enough to be part of both the old and the new, the old railroading days had a lot more pride involved from an employee viewpoint. Guys were proud of their railroad and most thought their's was the worlds best. The old stuff was labor intensive and communiction was primitive but efficient. I've gotten to ride in the cab of a mainline steam engine as well as an Acela. Both are pretty darn interesting. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
On the flip side I just wanted to add is that our young nation had little capital but had plenty of land. So in the USA railroads had to be built with private financing backed up by the pontential growth that would occur. Towns in the east would buy shares from there own tax coffers in the railroad so they would not be passed up and territortys out west would pledge land...sorry no spell check am at Hilton Steamtown in Scranton.
Bottom line---passenger service is a losing proposition financially everywhere. It is run as a public service. There is not a major passenger train in the world that is not subsidised. That's all good as long as we have the right perspective. Governments provide the public service. Amtrak however, is NOT subsidised for day to day operation or maintainance. ONLY cpitol improvement--IE--make it better so we can sell the right of way to commercial freight carriers one day--all pretty and up to date.
Bonas - you seem to equate Trains magazine and NRHS. They are two separate entities and related only by their common interest - railroads. To my knowledge, there is no other connection.
NRHS is what is says it is - an organization interested in the history of railroading in the US.
Trains magazine caters to the interests of its primary audience - the US. It does include articles about railroads in other countries from time to time.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD Bonas Firelock76 extreme there'd be those who thought people should be able to purchase anything that went "BANG" up to and including tactical nukes. Well sometimes tactical nukes are the only way to get rid of groundhogs and termites... Needs a 100 round magazine too
Bonas Firelock76 extreme there'd be those who thought people should be able to purchase anything that went "BANG" up to and including tactical nukes. Well sometimes tactical nukes are the only way to get rid of groundhogs and termites...
Firelock76 extreme there'd be those who thought people should be able to purchase anything that went "BANG" up to and including tactical nukes.
extreme there'd be those who thought people should be able to purchase anything that went "BANG" up to and including tactical nukes.
Well sometimes tactical nukes are the only way to get rid of groundhogs and termites...
Needs a 100 round magazine too
Groundhogs?, 100 round clips? If you need that many rounds to hit a fat rat, you DONT need a 100 round clip, you need an eye examination...
I suspect that alot of folks who don't care for steam is simply because they have never seen a real live steam locomotive in the flesh, some folks I have met the only steam engine they ever saw was the rusting hulk of one in a park.
As for Amtrak, I suspect its because the majority of Amtrak users are short distance routes, like the San Diegan out here, or they are limited to commuter services which can be crowded so the limited experience of a two hour commute can leave the rider a little underwhelmed. I have traveled long distance on Amtrak, in coach, which I wont do again, while I enjoyed the trip, coach is for the young and flexible, not the old and stiff, so next time its sleeper compartment.
Have fun with your trains
vsmith I suspect that alot of folks who don't care for steam is simply because they have never seen a real live steam locomotive in the flesh, some folks I have met the only steam engine they ever saw was the rusting hulk of one in a park.
I've seen at least four operating, ridden behind two, and seen more than I can count stuffed and mounted. Still don't care for them, never will.
I prefer looking at a Lotus Exige to a Model T at a car show, a B-1B to ...well I guess there aren't really any WWI bombers left flying around at air shows, and so on.
Different strokes for differnt folks. See" beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
tree68 Bonas - you seem to equate Trains magazine and NRHS. They are two separate entities and related only by their common interest - railroads. To my knowledge, there is no other connection. NRHS is what is says it is - an organization interested in the history of railroading in the US. Trains magazine caters to the interests of its primary audience - the US. It does include articles about railroads in other countries from time to time.
Johnny
NittanyLion vsmith I suspect that alot of folks who don't care for steam is simply because they have never seen a real live steam locomotive in the flesh, some folks I have met the only steam engine they ever saw was the rusting hulk of one in a park. I've seen at least four operating, ridden behind two, and seen more than I can count stuffed and mounted. Still don't care for them, never will. I prefer looking at a Lotus Exige to a Model T at a car show, a B-1B to ...well I guess there aren't really any WWI bombers left flying around at air shows, and so on.
To each his own
While I really love the Exige, its doesn't hold a candle to a Type 35 Bugatti, and I'm sorry but the B1 was such a dud in service, besides I'll take a nose cone ride along in a B-25 Mitchell at Chino Planes of Fame anyday over being stuffed and cramped in the back of any modern bomber
Well.....I have been on the Western Maryland train in Cumberland and on the Kings Island and Cedar Point Steam Trains at there respective parks
I "collect" pictures of myself next to Berkshires (and Kanawhas) and have managed to visit four or five. Then there's the museum pieces at places like Steamtown, the Henry Ford Museum, and the Science Museum in Ottawa, ON, to mention a few.
Working Steam? Steamtown, Strasburg, Owosso (765, 4449, 10, Leviathan, (who else was there?), Huckleberry RR, Greenfield Village, Scottsdale, numerous small scale. I've even thrown coal at the firebox on Susquehanna 142 (some actually went in - it's not as easy as it looks...).
No problem liking steam, even if I never saw any in traditional revenue service. I found out many years later that GT was still running steam in Pontiac, MI at a time I may have been there, albeit as a youngster. Dang!
But as a conductor on a tourist operation, I know that many's the passenger who tells me that "this is their first time on a train."
Ah, yes, Larry, it is not easy to get the coal into the firebox and not on the deck; it is not all like filling a furnace stoker from the coalbin (I had much experience in doing that when I was in college). The second, and last time, that I rode on the M&G (between Brownville and Buhl, Ala.) I tried my hand at bailing coal--and almost missed completely. It was something to watch two firemen feed the firebox on Southern 722 when I rode the engine from Anniston to Birmingham in December, 1970; I absolutely had to keep out of their way. Neither one sat on the fireman's box, so Mrs. Purdie had a good seat--and Bill Purdie hung out on the gangway except when we went through Cook Springs Tunnel (engineer Bob shut the steam off before we entered, and we coasted.through).
I am sure that not all of us appreciate geared steam locomotives, but I enjoyed both of my trips on the Cass Scenic Railroad--all the way to the top and back--not just because of the steam power, but also because of the Shays. The second trip (in 1974), I was talking with the conductor as we came down and, as we approached the second switchback switch, I asked him if I could line it after we passed it for us to go on down--and he told me, "Yes."
I wished that I could have ridden behind the N&W's J's more than I did when I was in college, but two trips was all I was able to work in; I also regret that I did not ride the West Jefferson train (which originated and terminated in Bristol). Well, the past is past. I did get into Bristol several times after eating supper to admire the engine that was waiting to take the Pelican out. It was quite a sight to watch the J as it moved ahead so it could back onto the main track to be coupled onto the train and as it took the dozen or so cars out of town--who cares about cinders in the hair?
The signalmanHo-Ho-Kus is wrong side too but that was cleaned up and used.
New Jersey Transit does not use the Ho-Ho-Kus station. The Town owns it and maintains it. In the morning there is a coffee and newspaper concession. When I lived in Waldwick the only station New Jersey Transit used was Ridgewood and I believe even that was owned and maintained by the Village.
Unfortunately, Waldwick declined to maintain its station even though the building is historically significant.
BonasCould the Union Pacific been built without any federal intervention?
When the Union and Central Pacific were built it was generally agreed that private investors would never build the road. The population was much too sparse to support a railroad in that part of the country. However, the Federal Government considered it essential to build a transcontinental railroad. Europe had not given up the idea of an American empire and a transcontinental railroad was the only way to maintain the integrity of our borders. As I understand it generally land was not condemned to build these roads; rather the land was owned by the Federal Government and provided as land grants to the railroads. There could have been some instances of condemnation though.
Bonasthe ICC would not let railroads raise fares to cover costs to the point where the Pennsy and the Penn Central made there trains run with heat in the summer and air condistioning in the winter to drive away customers
What really cost the eastern railroads was commuter service. Most commuters travel during the rush hours. That meant the railroads had to pay people for 8 hours of work when they needed them only 4 hours either in the morning or the afternoon. When freight was profitable it subsidized the commuter service but as eastern freight left the railroads commuter service became more and more of a problem.
Today over all in New Jersey the state still has to subsidize both bus and rail transit. However, the Northeast Corridor trains make a profit. I suspect that is true on the Metropolitan Transit Authority's New Haven line too.
The signalmanBottom line---passenger service is a losing proposition financially everywhere. It is run as a public service.
In the US all passenger transportation is and always has been subsidized. Air, rail, road and even the passenger vessels that ply our inland waterways are subsidized and always has been. Even our toll roads get considerable indirect subsidy.
I think if you check into it you'll find that NJT in fact owns the station. The usual deal is NJT restores the stations, ala Pascack Valley ones, and lets the town maintain and lease out space as long as they provide a waiting area for commuters. I know that to be a fact on the PV
vsmith NittanyLion vsmith I suspect that alot of folks who don't care for steam is simply because they have never seen a real live steam locomotive in the flesh, some folks I have met the only steam engine they ever saw was the rusting hulk of one in a park. I've seen at least four operating, ridden behind two, and seen more than I can count stuffed and mounted. Still don't care for them, never will. I prefer looking at a Lotus Exige to a Model T at a car show, a B-1B to ...well I guess there aren't really any WWI bombers left flying around at air shows, and so on. To each his own While I really love the Exige, its doesn't hold a candle to a Type 35 Bugatti, and I'm sorry but the B1 was such a dud in service, besides I'll take a nose cone ride along in a B-25 Mitchell at Chino Planes of Fame anyday over being stuffed and cramped in the back of any modern bomber
A dud!? They've seen extensive service in Afghanistan as close air support. The B-1A nuclear bomber was a disaster, but the B-1B conventional bomber was a huge success.
I do have a bit of a soft spot for the B-25. I saw Panchito a few years ago. How such a small(ish) plane can be so loud...
Honestly, I feel almost unique as a railfan because I have little to no interest in power. I'm far more fascinated by rolling stock. There's lots of fallen flags still out there, if you're looking for it.
The signalmanI think if you check into it you'll find that NJT in fact owns the station. The usual deal is NJT restores the stations, ala Pascack Valley ones, and lets the town maintain and lease out space as long as they provide a waiting area for commuters. I know that to be a fact on the PV
I left Waldwick in 1998 and perhaps my memory fades. What is clear is that the Borough had an opportunity to take over the station but declined to do so. There was a discussion of using it as a meeting space for town organizations. If, as you say, New Jersey Transit owns the station our state transit agency sure has not maintained it. The current report (linked to above) is that under New Jersey Transit's maintenance the sills are rotting caused by leaks in the roof.
Having commuted from that station I can't imagine any commuter wanting to wait there because it is on the wrong side of the tracks. When the train comes you have to climb 3 flights of stairs to cross the pedestrian bridge and then go down three flights. If you waited there you would always miss your train.
Are we talking Ho-Ho-Kus here?
I'm talking about Waldwick, not Ho-ho-kus. Ho-ho-kus is one stop east of Waldwick. It has no overhead pedestrian bridge; however there is a grade crossing next to the station; to cross the tracks you cross at the grade crossing. As I recall (and I rarely used Ho-ho-kus station) in the morning there was a man who sold coffee and newspapers there. The station was on the wrong side of the tracks but on the other side there was an enclosed waiting room for east bound passengers. Ho-ho-kus station is an attractive and unusual building built of native field stone.
I'm very familiar with both--I maintained the grade crossing at Ho-Ho-Kus and even bought coffe in the station. NJT retains ownership of all of the stations but, as I said, leases them out to the towns.
Just wanted to be sure we were on the same page.
Have a great story about a "Runaway" out of Walkdwick the made it all the way to Garfield!!
NJT didn't advertise that one.
What's unifying?
The signalman Have a great story about a "Runaway" out of Walkdwick the made it all the way to Garfield!! NJT didn't advertise that one.
No, I don't guess NJT did advertise it. What happened?
Late 1986 as I remember--had a coach cut in the days yard--somehow slipped it's brakes and came out on the main. You wouldn't believe what a downhill grade it is outta there but---anyway---Once it hit the main the WC tower operator was locked out by the shunt so he called to WJ (Ridgewood Interlocking). It rolled nice down thru HoHoKus and Ridgewood and was routed on to the Bergen County because there is a "belly" in the grade before Garfield. Made it all the way there but lucky it didn't have enough speed to keep going. A rescue engine grabbed it right quick and got it outta there.
Afterward, any cut cars in the yard had to have a tie jammed under the east truck as well as the brake.
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