BucyrusWhy would a railfan hate steam?
Aren't steam engines hard on the rail? The pounding, the smoke, the need to dump the ashpan, the interference with normal daily operations where the entire railroad is put in limbo for an hour only to wait for an aloof bunch of Don Quixotes to charge through not understanding why everyone does not lust after "windmills" ?
Bucyrus and JohnWR, you make sense; to me, saying that someone who does not like what I like hates what I like bespeaks a lack of logical thinking or else an attempt to censor my expressing my liking.
There are certain aspects of following railroading that do not interest me; one of my friends has a certain particular interest which I do not share--and I doubt that he shares all of my likings, but these differences do not turn me against him.
Other contributors to these threads express antipathy towards a certain aspect which I appreciate--but I do not castigate them for their feeling.
As has been said, it is well that we do not all like the same thing, else many men would have been wanting my wife.
Johnny
Being a rail fan covers a broad area. It is easily possible to be a fan of one aspect of railroading without being a fan of other aspects. We all have our interests; that is what makes us human. But to be a fan of one part of railroading while hating others does not make a lot of sense to me. When someone expresses hatred of one or some aspects of railroading while claiming to be a fan of some other part I look for a hidden agenda.
CNW 6000 Bucyrus Why would a railfan hate steam?Does a person have to like "steam" to be a railfan?
Bucyrus Why would a railfan hate steam?
Why would a railfan hate steam?
No, but not liking is quite a distance from hating.
Hmmm... I suppose the only requirement to be a rail fan is to like "Rails".
I have known people that don't give a hoot about tank cars or hoppers, but collect photos of the plug doors on boxcars (not a whole boxcar and not the sliding type door... just the plug style door!) I have known people that don't like freight cars, but are fans of passenger cars (and vice versa).
Maybe we are all using the term "railfan" in error.
Personally, I am a "Steam Locomotive Fan". Or maybe more specifically a "Mikado and Berkshire fan"... Oooo... maybe I'd better be a bit more specific... a "USRA Mikado and Berkshire (without streamlining) fan"... Uhhhhh... a "USRA Mikado and Berkshire (without streamlining) in black fan"... Uhhh.... a "
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Dan
Just like the Postal Service--if Washington would stay out of the way--and let those who have a clue run things--everybody would win. A lot of the capitol money goes to insiders too. You wouldn't believe how the "work incentive" $$ was squandered there on work that wasn't needed or wanted. Watta shame--so much good could have been done with it.
NittanyLion schlimm Because of political pressures, Amtrak has continued a service that requires an enormous operating subsidy to survive. Except it really doesn't. A billion dollars is hardly anything. Its 1/3500th of the budget. Its $3 a person. The average person loses that much in change a year.
schlimm Because of political pressures, Amtrak has continued a service that requires an enormous operating subsidy to survive.
Because of political pressures, Amtrak has continued a service that requires an enormous operating subsidy to survive.
Except it really doesn't. A billion dollars is hardly anything. Its 1/3500th of the budget.
Its $3 a person. The average person loses that much in change a year.
You could rationalize away just about any budget item that way, and therein lies the secret of our national insolvency. As of today the national debt is nearly $17.0 trillion.
John Timm
The corridor trains are filled to about capacity every day and the ontime rate is pretty darn good. Way better than airlines. Come the snow and rain--trains keep goin. You guys are right on the long distance routes. Just not economicaly viable but no long distance train in the world is. All are subsidised
No, of course it is not large compared to the US budget. But quite large compared to the operating revenues from the LD segment: for FY 2012, LD was budgeted at $561.9 mil. in revenue and expenses were $1.0916 bil.. So the loss, i.e., the subsidy, for LD services was only $529.7 mil. or stated another way, expenses ate up every dollar of revenue and lost an additional $529.7 mil., or, the loss was 94.3% of the revenue. Compared to other Amrak services (NEC and state-supported short corridors), it is a very inefficient segment that detracts from Amtrak's reputation and ability to provide the best transportation for the most people.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
John WR CSSHEGEWISCH I caught the tail end of the pre-Amtrak era and have grown to realize that the long-distance passenger train was almost dead, Amtrak just prolonged the agony. If "agony" describes Amtrak's long distance trains certainly that "agony has been prolonged for a good many years. There are various sites (including this one) where people who actually ride long distance trains in the US describe their experience. Not all descriptions are positive but a good many are. Reading them "agony" is not a word that jumps into my mind.
CSSHEGEWISCH I caught the tail end of the pre-Amtrak era and have grown to realize that the long-distance passenger train was almost dead, Amtrak just prolonged the agony.
If "agony" describes Amtrak's long distance trains certainly that "agony has been prolonged for a good many years. There are various sites (including this one) where people who actually ride long distance trains in the US describe their experience. Not all descriptions are positive but a good many are. Reading them "agony" is not a word that jumps into my mind.
I think you misread or missed his point. Prolonging the agony simply means a prolonged death, as in the agony of death, not a description of riding an LD train. To many of us, LD trains are an out-of-date concept that ceased to make sense once widespread jet air service and interstates came along, rather like the death of river steamboats or stage coaches once the rails became widespread. Because of political pressures, Amtrak has continued a service that requires an enormous operating subsidy to survive.
Steam locomotives don't do anything for me, either, probably because the only working steam locomotives that I can remember (barely) were NKP Berkshires. My tastes run stronger to the minority diesel builders (past and present) and straight electrics.
Passenger trains are a variable. I actually enjoy watching and riding various suburban operations, whereever they may be. I caught the tail end of the pre-Amtrak era and have grown to realize that the long-distance passenger train was almost dead, Amtrak just prolonged the agony. NEC and other corridors appear to serve a useful purpose and I support their continued operation.
I don't that this makes me a self-hating railroad enthusiast, just a thoughtful and realistic one.
OOPS--typo---79MPH
The Northeast Corrider riders are pretty much happy with the service overall. I ridden the trains frequently and seen many of the same faces on a daily basis. Interesting that on the rails owned and operated by Amtrak--things are a lot better. Elsewhere--they are at the mercy of the freight hauler whims. Also limed to 70MPH max ber FRA rules. You have no idea the work and concern Amtrak field engineering people put into keeping that trackage safe and efficient in spite of inefficient management.
Brent KneebushAs for Amtrak, I hate it simply because it is a giant government bureaucracy that could be done so much better, I like the trains themselves though. I don't think long distance trains have any business running, but I think something along the lines of connecting corridor trains make a lot of sense.
Well Brent, Amtrak is a giant government bureaucracy. (Are there any reasonably sized government bureaucracies?) And I know too much about government to suggest that it couldn't be done better. But back in the days of private railroads not everyone liked those trains either, not even connecting corridor trains. Consider The Lay of the Lost Traveler:
With saddened face and battered hat
And eye that told of black despair,
On wooden bench the traveler sat,
Cursing the fate that brought him there.
"Nine hours," he cried, "we've lingered here,
"With thought intent on distant homes,
"Waiting for the elusive train,
"Which, always coming, never comes;
"Till, weary, worn, distressed, forlorn,
"And paralyzed in every function,
"I hope in hell their souls may dwell
"Who first invented Essex Junction!"
* * *
"I've traveled east; I've traveled west
"Over mountains, valley, plain, and river;
"'Midst whirlwind's wrath and tempest's blast,
"Through railroad's crash and steamboat's shiver;
"And faith and courage faltered not,
"Nor strength gave way, nor hope was shaken,
"Until I reached this dismal spot:
"Of man accursed, of God forsaken!
"Where strange, new forms of misery
"Assail men's souls without compunction,
"And I hope in hell his soul may dwell
"Here Boston waits for Ogdensburgh,
"And Ogdensburgh for Montreal,
"And late New York tarrieth,
"And Saratoga hindereth all!
"From far Atlantic's wave-swept bays,
"To Mississippi's turbid tide,
"All accidents, mishaps, delays,
"Are gathered here and multiplied;
"Oh, fellow men, avoid this stop
"As you would plague or Peter Fink shun!
"And long and late conductors tell
"Of trains delayed or late or slow,
Till e'en the engine's bell
Takes up the cry, `No go! No go!'
"Oh, let me from this hole depart,
"By any route, so't be a lone one!"
He cried with madness in his heart,
And jumped aboard a train: the wrong one.
And as he vanished in the smoke
He shouted with redoubled unction,
-- Edward J. Phelps
I like cars, but I like cars from the 60s on, Model Ts and stuff like that do not do a thing for me. The same goes for steam. I don't think that is unreasonable
As for Amtrak, I hate it simply because it is a giant government bureaucracy that could be done so much better, I like the trains themselves though. I don't think long distance trains have any business running, but I think something along the lines of connecting corridor trains make a lot of sense.
Onto Mass Transit, well it makes since but only in certain instances.
If that makes me a self loathing railfan then so be it. You enjoy your silvered varnish and tea kettles and I will enjoy a stack train with a couple of gevos on the point or an oil train with a DPU on the tail. Cutting me down for thinking this way is just as bad as what you are professing.
ramrod Now if I could only figure out how to make an Abrams tank do 80 mph . . . . .Easy. About 100' down a cliff.
Now if I could only figure out how to make an Abrams tank do 80 mph . . . . .Easy. About 100' down a cliff.
I'm sure it could be re-geared, but I'm not so sure I'd want to throw a track at 80... The thing weighs over 60 tons...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The signalmanAfterward, any cut cars in the yard had to have a tie jammed under the east truck as well as the brake.
Thanks for the story. And, no, I would not have realized there is a downhill grade as far as Garfield.
Late 1986 as I remember--had a coach cut in the days yard--somehow slipped it's brakes and came out on the main. You wouldn't believe what a downhill grade it is outta there but---anyway---Once it hit the main the WC tower operator was locked out by the shunt so he called to WJ (Ridgewood Interlocking). It rolled nice down thru HoHoKus and Ridgewood and was routed on to the Bergen County because there is a "belly" in the grade before Garfield. Made it all the way there but lucky it didn't have enough speed to keep going. A rescue engine grabbed it right quick and got it outta there.
Afterward, any cut cars in the yard had to have a tie jammed under the east truck as well as the brake.
The signalman Have a great story about a "Runaway" out of Walkdwick the made it all the way to Garfield!! NJT didn't advertise that one.
Have a great story about a "Runaway" out of Walkdwick the made it all the way to Garfield!!
NJT didn't advertise that one.
No, I don't guess NJT did advertise it. What happened?
What's unifying?
I'm very familiar with both--I maintained the grade crossing at Ho-Ho-Kus and even bought coffe in the station. NJT retains ownership of all of the stations but, as I said, leases them out to the towns.
Just wanted to be sure we were on the same page.
I'm talking about Waldwick, not Ho-ho-kus. Ho-ho-kus is one stop east of Waldwick. It has no overhead pedestrian bridge; however there is a grade crossing next to the station; to cross the tracks you cross at the grade crossing. As I recall (and I rarely used Ho-ho-kus station) in the morning there was a man who sold coffee and newspapers there. The station was on the wrong side of the tracks but on the other side there was an enclosed waiting room for east bound passengers. Ho-ho-kus station is an attractive and unusual building built of native field stone.
Are we talking Ho-Ho-Kus here?
The signalmanI think if you check into it you'll find that NJT in fact owns the station. The usual deal is NJT restores the stations, ala Pascack Valley ones, and lets the town maintain and lease out space as long as they provide a waiting area for commuters. I know that to be a fact on the PV
I left Waldwick in 1998 and perhaps my memory fades. What is clear is that the Borough had an opportunity to take over the station but declined to do so. There was a discussion of using it as a meeting space for town organizations. If, as you say, New Jersey Transit owns the station our state transit agency sure has not maintained it. The current report (linked to above) is that under New Jersey Transit's maintenance the sills are rotting caused by leaks in the roof.
Having commuted from that station I can't imagine any commuter wanting to wait there because it is on the wrong side of the tracks. When the train comes you have to climb 3 flights of stairs to cross the pedestrian bridge and then go down three flights. If you waited there you would always miss your train.
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