Murphy Siding . So, in your very narrowly defined,paralell universe, does it come down to Mr. Railfan Logistics Officer having to make his decision based on which railroad has the better heritage paint scheme program?
. So, in your very narrowly defined,paralell universe, does it come down to Mr. Railfan Logistics Officer having to make his decision based on which railroad has the better heritage paint scheme program?
I don't know Murph, who do you REALLY think constitutes a narrower slice of total railroad business? Joe "hole in the wall" whose entire railroad presence on this continent amounts to some one-switch siding out in the middle of Grangerland? Or some guy coordinating unit trains into each of his 6 regions?
My bet is that the real volume comes from guys whose business model is more complex than "One stop" Joe.
And, for those guys who do coordinate substantial volume into multiple markets, getting them to put a nice heritage fleet wall calendar up in their office might be a subtle way of reminding them that you're NOT rusty ol' Chuckie.
Fair enough view of the situation I guess. So why stop with heritage units, on the whim that some indusrtrial VIP might be a railfan? Why not go whole hog- dedicated paint schemes? I could see a fancy painted locomotive dedicated to ADM, or Monsanto, or the Western Wheat Growers, or whatever. DM&E named their equipment after important people and places. I believe they had a locomotive named after Senator Larry Pressler, who was intrumental in the birth of DM&E.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding . So why stop with heritage units, on the whim that some indusrtrial VIP might be a railfan?
. So why stop with heritage units, on the whim that some indusrtrial VIP might be a railfan?
I really think that the point I was tying to make was, that it was unquestionably worthwhile to cultivate you brand amongst your most desirable customers, and that amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole.
If you are coordinating billions of dollars of business involving railroads, ports, and trucking firms, I doubt the deciding factor will ever be a paint scheme.
C'mon people... stop living in fantasy land.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Convicted One Murphy Siding . So why stop with heritage units, on the whim that some indusrtrial VIP might be a railfan? I really think that the point I was tying to make was, that it was unquestionably worthwhile to cultivate you brand amongst your most desirable customers, and that amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole.
Murphy Siding Convicted One Murphy Siding . So why stop with heritage units, on the whim that some indusrtrial VIP might be a railfan? I really think that the point I was tying to make was, that it was unquestionably worthwhile to cultivate you brand amongst your most desirable customers, and that amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole. Why?
Because people sometimes become fans of what they are familiar with. The Logistic Professional who works with trucking firms will probably be more attuned to the trucking industry and will probably have models of trucks in his office, the one that works with airplanes a lot probably has a model plane in his office. Likewise the one that works with trains likely has a model of a train in his office. He will be more apt to know what RRs are doing, which are merging, which are spinning off subsidiaries, which ones are building new track and which are having financial troubles.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
I think knowing the latest in an industry does not necessarily make one a "fan".
But Tatoo, who says 'deciding factor" must be the alpha and omega of the deliberation? Maybe a LOT of things have to be 'right" to actually finalize. But, if that slick, glossy, promo inspires you to think of the source, chances are good you won't forget the next time you need a railroad.
Mayhaps the bait is intended to capture the attention of people who've traditionally done business exclusively with the other guys?
Murphy Siding Convicted One amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole. Why?
Convicted One amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole.
amongst logistic professionals who use railroads regularly, you'd likely find a higher percentage of railfans than is the case among the population as a whole.
While it's not always possible to find work in a field you enjoy, I think the constant that most people would LIKE to find work in a field they enjoy, skews the final outcome in my favor.
Guys that hate bowling seldom get jobs working in bowling alleys, and even when forced by no other choice, they are looking to go elsewhere at first opportunity.
Like the UPS slogan goes:
Murphy Siding Why?
Why?
Here's a little food for thought;
Go to a Google main page, and into the search criteria type:
Burlington----and the auto-fill will not suggest "Northern Santa Fe Railroad" on the first page of suggestions
Santa--- and the Auto-fill will not suggest "Fe Railroad" on the first page of suggestions
Canadian---and the Auto-fill will not suggest neither "Pacific" nor "National" on the first page of suggestions
Union---and the Auto-fill will not suggest "Pacific Railroad" on the first page of suggestions
C or Chesapeake---and the Auto-fill will not suggest "ANY Railroad" on the first page of suggestions
But, type Norfolk and see what pops up on top. That's gotta be worth something, from a business standpoint. I know there are companies out there who pay Google for priority in search results.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that if your Uber-logistics guru is looking for a railroad using the Google search function, then perhaps you hired the wrong guy? Come to think of it, why is Uber-logistics guru typing in Burlington, or Santa, or Canadian, or Union? What do you think would come up on Google search, if he entered BNSF or CSX? Maybe you could check that out and get back to me?
I'm a logistics guy who uses rail sometimes. Usually my choice is limited to ONE carrier by whoever serves that shipper directly via a siding . Usually if you call the "wrong" railroad they will quickly set you straight. I had a shipper in Niles, OH who needed a couple of gondolas. I called NS thinking that they had the siding but the customer service rep quickly directed me over to her equivalent over at CSX...even gave me the CSX email along with their number. Both roads were very helpful in steering me right. The railroads work very closely together to help the customer.. if they can't do the job they will always refer you in the right direction. The railroads work very well together..the truckers should take note.
Ulrich- As a logistics guy who uses rail sometimes (an a rail fan to boot), how does a railroad having heritage units affect your choice in picking which railroad to use?
I think the heritage units are cool....and they have helped some businesses tremendously. The modeling industry. I now have on order 20 locomotives in HO that I would not have ordered otherwise. Railfan...yes. Modeller...yes.....If I were to need rail shipping and had a choice, I'd be inclined to go with a company that remembers from where it came and respects it's history. Shows heart and soul. I think I'd get better customer service from someone like that. Sadly these days, too much is based just on "the bottom line".
The only color that factors into the purchase decision is the color of money. But having said that, I'm not too critical of Norfolk Southern's heritage program. They are trying to celebrate their heritage and improve the appearance of their engines in the bargain. In a world that is despoiled with grafitti, much of it profane and vulgar, something that goes in the direction of class and beauty is nice and, at least from a fan perspective, much appreciated. Maybe style and color do mean something in business, but those attributes are hard to quantify. I don't know..maybe if I added a splash of red to my own business my sales would jump 30%...I don't think so, but who knows.
One could also ask why a union station should be a grand stone structure..why not just build a big wooden barn? Perhaps style, color, and overall presentation are more important than one might think.
Murphy Siding , if he entered BNSF or CSX? Maybe you could check that out and get back to me?
, if he entered BNSF or CSX? Maybe you could check that out and get back to me?
LOL, you tricked me!!!
I put CSX into my Google query box, and the 'auto-complete' feature sent me here
It's not just the color scheme, or the cars, it's the whole total package and they successfully use it to reward customers and perhaps try to lure new ones. It's a shame more didn't get a chance to see the NS train on the siding in Oakmont, PA the last time they played the US Open a couple years back. For a select and very lucky few, they got to both watch the US Open on one of the premier courses in the country but were also, wined, dined and slept on the train! I forget the exact car count, it must have been 8 or 10 counting the dining and baggage cars. You can ride a sleeping car on Amtrak any time but were else are you going to sleep in restored Pullmans? I have little doubt only the heaviest of shipping hitters were invited to participate in something you cannot buy anywhere else, at least at that scale and level of service. My wife and I got there just as the crew from Conway was finishing the preparations with temporary steps to each car along with piped in water and electric lines. The crew chief was apologetic but said we got there just a little too late for any informal tour of any of the cars despite my pleading and cajoling. Regardless, it was an awesome sight, and, from an advertising and business relations stand point, worth every dollar the railroad has spent. Now, if they would just help underwrite the final restoration of the K4s at Altoona Railroaders, much would be right in the world of the Pennsy steam rail fan.
Ulrich The only color that factors into the purchase decision is the color of money.
The only color that factors into the purchase decision is the color of money.
Precisely!! Why else would NS invest in the Heritage program, unless there was a recovery factor?
If you go to their site, there is a link to the '21st century steam program, that gives the user the opportunity to explore either the past, OR THE FUTURE. And I don't think that it's any coincidence that in order to explore the future, you have to side with the big black and white Norfolk Southern Locomotive.
The cues may be over the heads of some, but to me anyway, the heritage/past/future motive is cleverly seductive.
I also think some of you folks are forgetting one aspect of the heritage units -- postive press. With the heritage units and steam train trips, NS is putting something positive out there in the media instead of a headline that reads "Train slams into car, family of four killed." (And never mind that when you read the article, the driver of the car ignored the whistle of the train, the flashing lights, the crossing arm and still got hit by the train making it the train's fault.)
There are still a lot of people whose fathers and grandfathers worked for the Southern, N&W, Virginian and any of the others, too. It makes them feel good to see or hear about a new railroad locomotive out and about that the ancestors would enjoy seeing.
Convicted One Precisely!! Why else would NS invest in the Heritage program, unless there was a recovery factor?
Is it really hard to fathom that there might be several railfans pretty high up in the corporate ladder?
zugmann Is it really hard to fathom that there might be several railfans pretty high up in the corporate ladder?
If you say so.
I read somewhere that Wick Moorman is a railfan... how he ever got hired in the first place remains a mystery...aren't you supposed to hide that if you want to get hired by a railroad?
Convicted One If you say so.
Yes, I did. and?
zugmann Yes, I did. and?
No 'ands',...no "buts'......no arguments...
Recalling our history, I can see where any continued debate on the subject will inevitably evolve into a contest of which one of us is more stubborn. And I just see it as pointless to invest the energy to torment you, when nothing productive will come out of it in the end, for either of us. .
I realize that you are a nice guy, for some reason the two of us just don't mesh well. Rather that putting yet another layer of acrimony on top of the old ones, I thought I'd just take the path less traveled for once, and yield.
Ulrich I read somewhere that Wick Moorman is a railfan... how he ever got hired in the first place remains a mystery...aren't you supposed to hide that if you want to get hired by a railroad?
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
zugmann If you are coordinating billions of dollars of business involving railroads, ports, and trucking firms, I doubt the deciding factor will ever be a paint scheme. C'mon people... stop living in fantasy land.
No, not in a choice between competing railroads. But if your business uses only trucks to bring in raw materials or to ship finished products, a more favorable opinion of railroads in general might make you more likely to at least consider rail service when choosing transportation going forward.
I don't think any of these endeavors (Heritage schemes, Steam specials, National ad campaigns, etc) are about one particular railroad vs another. Its about railroading in general. If it was solely about one railroad over another, none of them would allow all the power loaning/sharing that goes on. Come on, right now, somewhere out on the rails is a train with a UP, a CSX, a BNSF, a NS and an old SP unit with a yellow rectangle with red numbers in it under the window leading a stack train. If it was all about one RR vs another no RR CEO would allow that to happen.
Think about Cable TV... how many places in this country have more than one cable company serving TV to the same neighborhood? Not many. But how many satellite dishes are there in that neighborhood. How many of those houses are fed by U-Verse TV or Verizon FiOS? So there are national ad campaigns trying to convince me of cable TV service from companies that don't serve my neighborhood. But it does serve my local cable company because I might consider using them to serve my TV needs the next time that nasty rain storm knocks out my favorite TV show.
So like someone said elsewhere in this thread... its about positive press for an industry that generally more known for environmental disasters associated with derailments and making you late for dinner because you got stuck at a grade crossing.
So an ad campaign reminding people that railroads are indeed the backbone of US freight movement and the "coolness factor" of the unique paint schemes and the throwback to the age of steam affects the overall perception of railroads. And that is a good thing for the entire industry.
It wouldn't surprise me to see ALL of the North America Class 1's do a heritage scheme. I mean what does it really cost? They didn't buy extra units for this, they just picked 20 of the units they had already committed to for special paint. They paid a guy to come up with the schemes. Some of those paralegals on salary in the legal department gathered the rights to use those schemes. You think the guys in the paint booth didn't fight for the chance to be able to say they worked on these units?
From my perspective these units are a win-win-win for NS and railroading in general.
Johnie
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