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NS Heritage Units, business results?

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NS Heritage Units, business results?
Posted by K4sPRR on Monday, January 21, 2013 12:58 PM

Outside of the exciting the railfan community and improving employee moral does anyone have information about the heritage units having any impact on NS rail business?   Was it a worthwhile effort from a business standpoint, or too early to tell? 

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, January 21, 2013 1:10 PM

K4sPRR

Outside of the exciting the railfan community and improving employee moral does anyone have information about the heritage units having any impact on NS rail business?   Was it a worthwhile effort from a business standpoint, or too early to tell? 

I don't think this was done as a effort to gain more business.   But who knows... stranger things have happened.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 21, 2013 4:03 PM

     How would fancy paint jobs have any effect on business at all?

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 21, 2013 4:14 PM

It could in several direct and indirect ways.  First, it brings attention to the railroad itself which could be an advertising message to shippers.  The public becomes aware of the railroad, more conscious of its existence and might even act more safely around grade crossings and walking along track reducing time losing accidents. And the employees might take pride in who they were and who they are giving their employer a better day's work.   It gets attention, makes people pay more attention, to the railroad...

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 21, 2013 4:42 PM

     henry-  Would you pay more at the store, if you knew that the goods arrived on a train with a prettier engine?  Shouldn't you also be willing to pay more, if the railroaders on that engine were of above average looks?

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 21, 2013 4:49 PM

You're talking a level of dollars that doesn't make much difference overall. Also, if the road is getting better work or safer conditions, then it is paying them back..

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Posted by Ulrich on Monday, January 21, 2013 5:50 PM

If paint mattered the railroads would be kicking up a fuss about all that graffiti that has dispoiled about 75% of their rolling stock. Why bother to paint at all beyond a protective coat of primer? Just paint everything in primer...forget the paint schemes, although nice to look at if you're a fan, they don't add anything to the bottom line.

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Posted by baberuth73 on Monday, January 21, 2013 5:54 PM

This sort of thing may be difficult to quantify but it sure couldn't hurt.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, January 21, 2013 6:34 PM

Ulrich

If paint mattered the railroads would be kicking up a fuss about all that graffiti that has dispoiled about 75% of their rolling stock. Why bother to paint at all beyond a protective coat of primer? Just paint everything in primer...forget the paint schemes, although nice to look at if you're a fan, they don't add anything to the bottom line.

I'm all for slime lime for safety's sake.  That'd be cool.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 21, 2013 7:04 PM

henry6

It could in several direct and indirect ways.  First, it brings attention to the railroad itself which could be an advertising message to shippers.  The public becomes aware of the railroad, more conscious of its existence and might even act more safely around grade crossings and walking along track reducing time losing accidents. And the employees might take pride in who they were and who they are giving their employer a better day's work.   It gets attention, makes people pay more attention, to the railroad...

     I don't think any shipper picks his mode of shipment or his railroad based on snazzy looking locomotives. 

      The public does not become more aware of the railroad- only the railfans.  No one in my city that's not a railfan could tell you the color of the locomotives going through town.  Changing the color would do nothing to change that.  If the intent was to make the locomotives more visable, wouldn't they simply paint them pumpkin orange-like BNSF?

     How does painting a locomotive in a heritage scheme make employees work harder?  Who's to say they don't take pride in their work already, and that a splashy paint scheme is going to change anything?  Are there still railroaders furloughed,  while money is spent on pretty paint?

     Heritage units are cool to me, because I am a railfan.  Of course,  I'm off the beaten path, and will probably never see one.  The paint schemes do nothing for non-railfans, or the bottom line.

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Posted by cacole on Monday, January 21, 2013 7:49 PM

I doubt very much that any business person is going to think, "Gee, I think I'll start using rail shipments now because those locomotives sure look nice."

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Posted by henry6 on Monday, January 21, 2013 8:06 PM

You'd be surprised how images work in advertising.  Been doing it for 50 years so I can't dismiss the concept.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 21, 2013 8:31 PM

henry6

You'd be surprised how images work in advertising.  Been doing it for 50 years so I can't dismiss the concept.

     Certainly, that's true, to a point.  As an example, I work for a lumberyard served by the BNSF.  If I thought NS had prettier heritage units than BNSF, that might make me want to talk the boss into shipping his lumber in on NS.  Oops!  It looks like BNSF is our only option. 

     Now, if we had the opportunity to ship in on two different roads- BNSF and UP for example- what would be my boss' opinion about shipping in on UP because they had prettier heritage units?  His answer- what are the rates?  Do you think he cares what color the engines are?  The locomotive color has no economic influence on shipper or receiver.

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, January 21, 2013 9:18 PM

zugmann

Ulrich

... Why bother to paint at all beyond a protective coat of primer? Just paint everything in primer...forget the paint schemes, although nice to look at if you're a fan, they don't add anything to the bottom line.

I'm all for slime lime for safety's sake.  That'd be cool.

Hey, I know!  Why not the best of both worlds, and maintenance gains too, use zinc chromate...

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Posted by baberuth73 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:50 AM

We at NS used to routinely run locomotives that were in primer- I kinda liked their appearance. Basic black gets pretty old after a while. And hotter than the hinges on the gates of hell in the 9 months of summer we have in South Carolina.

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM

K4sPRR

Outside of the exciting the railfan community and improving employee moral does anyone have information about the heritage units having any impact on NS rail business?   Was it a worthwhile effort from a business standpoint, or too early to tell? 

They painted the heritage units and the bottom fell out of the coal franchise.  Certainly not cause and effect!  Heritage paint was more about company morale and public perception than marketing, no?  

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:59 AM

oltmannd

They painted the heritage units and the bottom fell out of the coal franchise.  Certainly not cause and effect!  Heritage paint was more about company morale and public perception than marketing, no?  

You got the broad base of the idea right.

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:11 AM

Murphy Siding
How does painting a locomotive in a heritage scheme make employees work harder?  Who's to say they don't take pride in their work already, and that a splashy paint scheme is going to change anything?  Are there still railroaders furloughed,  while money is spent on pretty paint?

It says NS is proud of who it is and where it came from.  Walk around the NS building in Atlanta and you will see lots of employees with posters of the heritage locomotives in their cubes and their favorite as a screen saver or on the tag line of their email.  So, has it been good for morale?  Yup.

The number of employees NS needs is not a function of how much money is spent on other projects.  They are not connected.  Nobody got laid off because NS painted locomotives.  Nobody will get hired because none will be done this year.

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Posted by Convicted One on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:13 AM

Murphy Siding

     How would fancy paint jobs have any effect on business at all?

Market awareness?

Lets say you worked for  a real company, such as Weyerhaeuser or 3M, and you were shipping 100 cars a month from the Pacific North West to the South East and mid West. BNSF might originate your shipment, but you need to select a connecting road to complete your deliveries

Who ya gonna call? You might call the distant railroad known for rusty bridges, or you MIGHT call the railroad that has those bright shiny nostalgia machines

There is a local roofing contractor here who does a lot of commercial roof maintenance, his gimmick is that he uses old old trucks that are restored to near mint condition, with the slogan on the side reading "It pays to maintain".

Will people pay him more to fix their roofs because of his old trucks? likely not. Bu if he can get them to call him first, or call him at all...that is an advantage

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:28 AM

oltmannd

Murphy Siding
How does painting a locomotive in a heritage scheme make employees work harder?  Who's to say they don't take pride in their work already, and that a splashy paint scheme is going to change anything?  Are there still railroaders furloughed,  while money is spent on pretty paint?

It says NS is proud of who it is and where it came from.  Walk around the NS building in Atlanta and you will see lots of employees with posters of the heritage locomotives in their cubes and their favorite as a screen saver or on the tag line of their email.  So, has it been good for morale?  Yup.

The number of employees NS needs is not a function of how much money is spent on other projects.  They are not connected.  Nobody got laid off because NS painted locomotives.  Nobody will get hired because none will be done this year.

     You make a good point about company morale.  I can see where that could positively effect productivity in the office environment.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:40 AM

Convicted One

Murphy Siding

     How would fancy paint jobs have any effect on business at all?

Market awareness?

Lets say you worked for  a real company, such as Weyerhaeuser or 3M, and you were shipping 100 cars a month from the Pacific North West to the South East and mid West. BNSF might originate your shipment, but you need to select a connecting road to complete your deliveries

Who ya gonna call? You might call the distant railroad known for rusty bridges, or you MIGHT call the railroad that has those bright shiny nostalgia machines

There is a local roofing contractor here who does a lot of commercial roof maintenance, his gimmick is that he uses old old trucks that are restored to near mint condition, with the slogan on the side reading "It pays to maintain".

Will people pay him more to fix their roofs because of his old trucks? likely not. Bu if he can get them to call him first, or call him at all...that is an advantage

     Let's say I worked for a real company?  Laugh 

     So, once Weyerhaeuser or 3M,    picks the road with the heritage units to delivery their goods to the final destination,  they don't even check the rates from the rusty bridge railroad?


     I can readily see where this might make a difference in a sale involving emotions and intangibles-  Coke or Pepsi, this roofer, or that roofer-  but I bet it becomes less of a factor, as it becomes more of a money issue in selling a product.

     To be clear-  I think heritage locomotives are neat.  I hope railroads keep doing them.  I don't think they are done with the intention of doing anything for the bottom line.

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Posted by carnej1 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:13 AM

henry6

You'd be surprised how images work in advertising.  Been doing it for 50 years so I can't dismiss the concept.

While I have to agree that the Heritage scheme locomotive will not have a lot of impact with the non railfan/rail industry professional public, the idea of using locomotives as an rolling billboard has caught on in other parts of the world:

http://www.txlogistik.eu/e-services/advertise-o-our-locomotives/

 

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 11:58 AM

Murphy Siding
I don't think they are done with the intention of doing anything for the bottom line.

Not in the short run.  Only if it helps nudge the needle for PPP money a bit.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 1:01 PM

oltmannd

Murphy Siding
I don't think they are done with the intention of doing anything for the bottom line.

Not in the short run.  Only if it helps nudge the needle for PPP money a bit.

  What is  PPP  money?

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Posted by oltmannd on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 2:32 PM

Murphy Siding
What is  PPP  money?

Public Private Partnership.  Gotta have JQ Public on your side to get any public money...

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Posted by John WR on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:24 PM

henry6
You'd be surprised how images work in advertising.

Henry

What about greater public awareness of a company and name recognition.  Is that desirable in an of itself?  

John

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 4:41 PM

It is.  

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:02 PM

I think it is merely a matter of keeping the names, logo's, livery and advertising phrases of the predicessor lines as "in use" and "current" to keep someone from using them under the claim that they were abandoned.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 5:13 PM

There's also something to be said for appearing frugal and careful with money. I wouldn't want my customers to think they're overpaying me. It is hard to justify things like fuel surcharges or accessorial charges when you roll into the plant with a fancy shmancy paint scheme. This is also why I rarely wear suits... the impression I want to leave is "I'm careful with your money"  But maybe it is different for very large companies where more effort needs to be made to cultivate employee pride and involvement..so maybe in the case of NS, the heritage project does provide a positive return.

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Posted by henry6 on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:00 PM

Semper Vaporo

I think it is merely a matter of keeping the names, logo's, livery and advertising phrases of the predicessor lines as "in use" and "current" to keep someone from using them under the claim that they were abandoned.

Excellent point...could even be a legality....

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