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I Hate Hunter Harrison

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Posted by Jeff2006 on Sunday, September 2, 2012 3:13 PM

As a current CP employee I along with the other people who work for CP have felt the change being brought by HH but its nothing we should've been surprised by. The man has an idea of how things should be run and so forth. Some people dont like him others like his bold goals being set. With running longer trains then normal he's saving dwell on cars and also saving crews/loco's. It's been a big change from when i hired out, personally welcome the change and am excited what may come about down the road before he steps down as CEO

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Posted by Vern Moore on Sunday, September 2, 2012 5:26 PM

My obsservation about the beer is from dealing with certain customers who do not want to go with bracing their product inside a shipping container for rail shipment. Schneider bought a fleet of short trailers that can be loaded to full cubic space capacity to eliminate the need for bracing beer loads.

Works for trucking, but I don't see very many 43ft rail containers. And hauling beer from eastern micro-breweries out to the west coast was certainly a nice break from the usual routine of running southeast US into the northeast.

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Posted by dakotafred on Sunday, September 2, 2012 5:36 PM

Jeff2006

 It's been a big change from when i hired out, personally welcome the change and am excited what may come about down the road before he steps down as CEO

That's the spirit, Jeff. When everybody in the industry has your positive, can-do attitude, the transition from the bad old days -- when the rails were going down, with no help in sight -- will be complete.

Who would have dared say 20 years ago -- even 10+ years after Staggers, and 20 years after Amtrak had taken passengers off their hands -- that the rails would be where they are today? Contrarily, who today would bet AGAINST the rails still being vital in 50 or 100 years?

It's taken a lot of bold industry leaders -- as well as faithful operating people -- to get the rails where they are today, and H.H. is one of them. There is simply no reason in the historical record to think he will do less with CP than he did with IC and CN. 

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Posted by nordique72 on Sunday, September 2, 2012 11:11 PM

beaulieu

Where did WCL have an Intermodal terminal in New Brighton? 

Space was rented from the Minnesota Commerical- as I recall it was about as successful as the Chippewa Falls ramp. 

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Posted by cptrainman on Monday, September 3, 2012 9:23 PM

Well, of course there are going to be people mad at EHH because of the changes he is making at CP. People get comfortable and resist change. Myself, I welcome a stronger RR that will continue to provide me with employment until I retire.

Regarding those old SD 40s. Get rid of them. Having run CP's old SD 40s, I can personally state that they are a maintenance headache. They are too old and the parts are harder and harder to come by. Most parts are refurbished. I have never run a SD40 or GP38 that is all in working condition. There is always something wrong them.

Aside from that, the question whether EHH is cutting too far was also the question at CN. Unhappy customers may become normal but I believe they can live with a little less service if the price is right. I can atest that CN is doing it right. I see daily how much traffic CN has taken from CP over the years and the quarterly reports prove what I see.

All these reports of dissatisfied customers maybe true, but the RR and their customers all have one thing in common. It's all about the money. If CNs marketing people can bid on a contract that is 10% to 20% less in cost than CP, which way will the customer go? Of course they will go to CN and put up with a little less service. The proof is there for all to see today. 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 11:38 AM

Your headline, "I Hate Hunter Harrison", really detracts from your post. i'm surprised that the forum moderators let it stand.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:02 PM

Ulrich

Your headline, "I Hate Hunter Harrison", really detracts from your post. i'm surprised that the forum moderators let it stand.

What rule does the title violate?  It seems to have gotten people's attention and evoked quite a bit of substantive comment overall in the thread.

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:27 PM

The rule of commonsense ... I haven't  stated that there hasn't been substantive comment...just saying that the thread's inflammatory title hasn't helped that cause.  Besides, it sounds silly.. 

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Posted by coborn35 on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 12:52 PM

cptrainman

Well, of course there are going to be people mad at EHH because of the changes he is making at CP. People get comfortable and resist change. Myself, I welcome a stronger RR that will continue to provide me with employment until I retire.

Regarding those old SD 40s. Get rid of them. Having run CP's old SD 40s, I can personally state that they are a maintenance headache. They are too old and the parts are harder and harder to come by. Most parts are refurbished. I have never run a SD40 or GP38 that is all in working condition. There is always something wrong them.

Aside from that, the question whether EHH is cutting too far was also the question at CN. Unhappy customers may become normal but I believe they can live with a little less service if the price is right. I can atest that CN is doing it right. I see daily how much traffic CN has taken from CP over the years and the quarterly reports prove what I see.

All these reports of dissatisfied customers maybe true, but the RR and their customers all have one thing in common. It's all about the money. If CNs marketing people can bid on a contract that is 10% to 20% less in cost than CP, which way will the customer go? Of course they will go to CN and put up with a little less service. The proof is there for all to see today. 

 

Well now hold on a second. I think you need to clarify some things. You are talking about canadian GP38's I presume as every one I know loves the SOO GP38-2's. Pull hard, dont slip easily like the GP40's, and are in good shape.

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:07 PM

Any truth to the rumors about new rules, like making the conductor do a walking inspection of his train at meets?  I'd hate to be the dispatcher there:

"changed my mind, I'm going to run you now."

"Hold on, my conductor is 80 cars back!"

They have no faith in their defect detectors?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:37 PM

That doesn't sound plausible... more likely it's a visual inspection of the other train as it goes by. That would make more sense and would probably even be a good idea. The defect detectors can't pickup some things that a conductor can spot.. no need to tell you that I'm sure.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:38 PM

Ulrich

That doesn't sound plausible... more likely it's a visual inspection of the other train as it goes by. That would make more sense and would probably even be a good idea. The defect detectors can't pickup some things that a conductor can spot.. no need to tell you that I'm sure.

No, not a roll-by.   As I recall talking to a CN employee, they had the same walking rule (under EHH leadership). 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 2:50 PM

Well that's interesting.. .would really be hell in the winter on some remote stretch of track..on one of those 12000 ft. long distributed power trains.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 3:04 PM

Just what I heard from a reliable source... just curious if it is true or not.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by WC#3000 on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 4:55 PM

Yes its true. Reality might be slightly different..

Canadian Pacific General Order A-17 (US East and West Regions) August 17, 2012:

"GCOR Rule 6.29.2 added to as follows:

When a train stops enroute, a walking and/or roll by inspection of as much of the train as is possible must be made as time and conditions permit. This does not apply to passenger trains.

Note: The objective, to ensure their train is in good order, with no obvious evidence of hazardous conditions. Inspections are not to be performed between adjacent main tracks or sidings. Information provided by the Train Dispatcher relating to the expected delay is to be used to determine how much may be inspected without delaying the train. If such information is not provided, crews should request same from the Train Dispatcher."

 

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 5:08 PM

Seems a little vague to me...it would be hard to do a roll by when the train is stopped... and who determines "as much of the train as is possible"? If the weather is really bad can the conductor say "no..I'm not going to walk the train today". I don't know...this might not be such a great rule...although the net result might be  alot of skinny conductors.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 5:56 PM

If you know you are going to "x" to meet a train, then the conductor could drop off a mile beforehand, and let the train roll by.  Then he could walk to the head end.  

Doesn't allow for options for the dispatcher to change his/her plans, though.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:16 PM

zugmann

If you know you are going to "x" to meet a train, then the conductor could drop off a mile beforehand, and let the train roll by.  Then he could walk to the head end.  

Doesn't allow for options for the dispatcher to change his/her plans, though.

 

Your going to X to meet 192 - should be a headlight meet.  ie. you don't have time to inspect!

Your going to Y to meet 460 - 462 & 464 - 464 is still working at Z.  ie inspect to your hearts content.

 

Todays single track operations do not have the closely spaced, short sidings that existed a generation or two ago.  Depending up the carrier and the territory, sidings are nominally 8000 to 10000 feet in length and spaced every 15 to 30 miles.  It is not unusual for 'inferior' trains to be stopped for a hour or more in making train meets.  Many train meets are dictated more by train length than they are by train priority - at least one of the trains must be able to fit in siding.  Not all sidings have the same length and many sidings have road crossings which further limit they effectiveness to the Train Dispatcher.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Ulrich on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:52 PM

zugmann

If you know you are going to "x" to meet a train, then the conductor could drop off a mile beforehand, and let the train roll by.  Then he could walk to the head end.  

Doesn't allow for options for the dispatcher to change his/her plans, though.

 

That clears it up for me...thanks..

 

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Posted by cptrainman on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 6:57 PM

coborn35

cptrainman

Well, of course there are going to be people mad at EHH because of the changes he is making at CP. People get comfortable and resist change. Myself, I welcome a stronger RR that will continue to provide me with employment until I retire.

Regarding those old SD 40s. Get rid of them. Having run CP's old SD 40s, I can personally state that they are a maintenance headache. They are too old and the parts are harder and harder to come by. Most parts are refurbished. I have never run a SD40 or GP38 that is all in working condition. There is always something wrong them.

Aside from that, the question whether EHH is cutting too far was also the question at CN. Unhappy customers may become normal but I believe they can live with a little less service if the price is right. I can atest that CN is doing it right. I see daily how much traffic CN has taken from CP over the years and the quarterly reports prove what I see.

All these reports of dissatisfied customers maybe true, but the RR and their customers all have one thing in common. It's all about the money. If CNs marketing people can bid on a contract that is 10% to 20% less in cost than CP, which way will the customer go? Of course they will go to CN and put up with a little less service. The proof is there for all to see today. 

 

Well now hold on a second. I think you need to clarify some things. You are talking about canadian GP38's I presume as every one I know loves the SOO GP38-2's. Pull hard, dont slip easily like the GP40's, and are in good shape.

 

Yes I clarify. Canadian GP 38's.  Traction motors cut out, db inoperative, constant wheel slip. All normal. However, today I had a couple of good ones.

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:01 PM

That system doesn't let a DS change his mind, does it?

On one hand, the rules allow dismounting moving equipment to speed up operations, and on this other hand, you are taking the conductor far away, making it impossible if conditions change and warrant giving a train an early light.   Maybe they should put cabooses (vans in Canadienspeak?) back on the road trains?

Walk your train one way, hop on the caboose.  Next stop, hop off and walk the train back to the engines.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by cptrainman on Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:12 PM

WC#3000

Yes its true. Reality might be slightly different..

Canadian Pacific General Order A-17 (US East and West Regions) August 17, 2012:

"GCOR Rule 6.29.2 added to as follows:

When a train stops enroute, a walking and/or roll by inspection of as much of the train as is possible must be made as time and conditions permit. This does not apply to passenger trains.

Note: The objective, to ensure their train is in good order, with no obvious evidence of hazardous conditions. Inspections are not to be performed between adjacent main tracks or sidings. Information provided by the Train Dispatcher relating to the expected delay is to be used to determine how much may be inspected without delaying the train. If such information is not provided, crews should request same from the Train Dispatcher."

 

 

 

We've got the same rule change here, nearly word for word. If the dispatcher says the delay is 30 minutes, then you walk for 15 minutes, turn and come back. Also, the crew knows what is happening if the train(s) they are meeting are within radio range.

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Posted by beaulieu on Wednesday, September 5, 2012 3:13 AM

Well I think it's safe to say that the Holiday trains will run this year. The local organizations have been notified of the dates and approximate times of their stops.

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Posted by CNSF on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:11 AM
Will add only what I know from first-hand experience in CN's intermodal marketing department. The bulk of WC's pre-CN intermodal business consisted of Schneider trailers that interchanged at Chicago - mostly with CSX. It was all loads out, empties in, and was marginally priced with terms that were favorable to CSX. The reason it made sense for the standalone WC to go after it was that they had unused capacity and it was incremental revenue that made a slight contribution above its out-of-pocket cost. Nothing wrong with that. CN didn't purchase WC to get this business, though. As others have stated, CN had different designs for WC's excess capacity. We didn't close the WC ramps immediately - we waited a year or so, and only took action after it became clear that the shippers had nothing to offer in the way of longer-haul traffic moving to points on the CN system other than Chicago. I doubt this seriously hurt the major shippers as the traffic was being drayed between Chicago and WI before WC got into the game and it simply went back to moving that way. Interestingly, at about the same time we also shut down a similar long-standing short-haul intermodal operation at St. Louis on the IC, where we were providing haulage for Conrail. This was an operation that Hunter had blessed when IC was a standalone. The lesson here is that the value of a particular piece of business can be perceived quite differently, even by the same individual, depending on the railroad's overall context and the availability of other opportunities. As for CP's Milwaukee intermodal operation, I suspect it's a bit different, and that CP is hauling the traffic all the way from Vancouver or Montreal. The questions I would ask myself if I were the market analyst responsible for that business are: 1) What are the extra switching/handling/loading/asset utilization costs of maintaining a seperate Milwaukee block versus mixing those loads in with my much higher Chicago volume? 2) How much rate premium am I getting for going into Milwaukee versus Chicago? 3) If I close Milwaukee and try to force the traffic through my Chicago ramp, what are the chances I'll lose the business altogether? I'm sure Hunter is the one now asking CP's marketing folks these questions, but I also used to work at ATSF and I can tell you that if Carl Ice had taken over CP he'd be asking the same questions.
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Posted by CNSF on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:12 AM
Sorry about the big block of text - I can't figure out how to get my paragraph breaks to stop disappearing when I post.
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Posted by greyhounds on Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:43 PM

CNSF - thank you for the informative and knowledgeable posting.

These decisions are made based on facts, reason, experience, knowledge, projections, etc.  They're not whimsical.

I can only wish people would realize that before they fly off the handle.  Are the decisions ever wrong?  Of course some are wrong.  No one has pefect knowledge.  But such decisions are based on the best judgement of the available facts at the time.

It has become wearisom reading emotional postings from people who attack without understanding or knowledge.

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
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Posted by Ulrich on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:03 AM

Just to be clear..its okay to post that you hate someone...but anything about hobos or graffiti is off limits... Got it.

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Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:13 PM

Ulrich

Just to be clear..its okay to post that you hate someone...but anything about hobos or graffiti is off limits... Got it.

But what if the post is about hating hobos or graffiti?

Or what if it's about hating someone who hates someone who hates hobos?

Or...

Moderator
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Posted by blownout cylinder on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:19 PM

zardoz

Ulrich

Just to be clear..its okay to post that you hate someone...but anything about hobos or graffiti is off limits... Got it.

But what if the post is about hating hobos or graffiti?

Or what if it's about hating someone who hates someone who hates hobos?

Or...

       Laugh

Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry

I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...

http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:33 PM

     What if a hobo posts that he hates graffiti?

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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