greyhounds AgentKid I agree with Blue Streak 1's comment above. As Johnny D. mentioned in the second last post in the "Trackside Lounge 3Q." thread, managers need complete information on a problem before they can make the best decisions to fix the problem. Bruce Complete information doesn't exist. An important part of the art of management is to know when you've got enough information and analysis to make a reasoned, informed decision. If you wait on "complete" you'll make mistakes by not acting quckly enough. There are a lot of details to everything. If you try to gather them all, and weigh them all, the time to act will have passed by the time you do anything. And what you do will likely be tentative because you've considered a thousand "What Ifs". Knowing when to take action, as well as what action to take, is what seperates great managers from bureaucrats. Harrison has been successful because he's not afraid to act when it's time to act. I'm sure he's gotten things wrong. But everybody gets things wrong. He's been successful much more than he's failed. I've likened it to hunting pheasants. You have to take time to aim, but if you take too much time the bird is gone. You have to know when to pull the trigger. You have to know when your aim is good enough and then not be shy about pulling the trigger. You'll miss some of the birds. But you'll also bring home pheasant breasts to eat. That's what counts. Harrison practices his railroading art quite well (backed with reason, knowledge and experience.) I wonder if he hunts pheasants.
AgentKid I agree with Blue Streak 1's comment above. As Johnny D. mentioned in the second last post in the "Trackside Lounge 3Q." thread, managers need complete information on a problem before they can make the best decisions to fix the problem. Bruce
I agree with Blue Streak 1's comment above. As Johnny D. mentioned in the second last post in the "Trackside Lounge 3Q." thread, managers need complete information on a problem before they can make the best decisions to fix the problem.
Bruce
Complete information doesn't exist. An important part of the art of management is to know when you've got enough information and analysis to make a reasoned, informed decision. If you wait on "complete" you'll make mistakes by not acting quckly enough. There are a lot of details to everything. If you try to gather them all, and weigh them all, the time to act will have passed by the time you do anything. And what you do will likely be tentative because you've considered a thousand "What Ifs".
Knowing when to take action, as well as what action to take, is what seperates great managers from bureaucrats.
Harrison has been successful because he's not afraid to act when it's time to act. I'm sure he's gotten things wrong. But everybody gets things wrong. He's been successful much more than he's failed.
I've likened it to hunting pheasants. You have to take time to aim, but if you take too much time the bird is gone. You have to know when to pull the trigger. You have to know when your aim is good enough and then not be shy about pulling the trigger. You'll miss some of the birds. But you'll also bring home pheasant breasts to eat. That's what counts.
Harrison practices his railroading art quite well (backed with reason, knowledge and experience.) I wonder if he hunts pheasants.
Exactly. If we all waited for complete information nothing would ever get done. They call it paralysis by analysis, or something to that affect. Sometimes, as a manager, you can't wait for the details, you've got to trust your gut and run with it. If you understand the business you're usually going to be right, and if you're wrong, well, you've probably already given some thought to how to deal with the downside. Complete information sure would be nice to have though.
BaltACD Uncle JakeJust a thought, just because someone makes a decision you don't like doesn't mean that they do like it. Sometimes the people in charge have to make a decision, and they may not have a good option to choose, they have to find the least bad option and deal with it. If making decisions was between 'obviously good' and 'obviously bad' - anyone could do it. In the real world, the decisions that have to be made are generally between 'good and better' or 'bad and worse' and neither choice is obvious. The good decision makers find the way, more times than not. No decision maker is going to achieve success on 100% of the decisions they make.
Uncle JakeJust a thought, just because someone makes a decision you don't like doesn't mean that they do like it. Sometimes the people in charge have to make a decision, and they may not have a good option to choose, they have to find the least bad option and deal with it.
If making decisions was between 'obviously good' and 'obviously bad' - anyone could do it.
In the real world, the decisions that have to be made are generally between 'good and better' or 'bad and worse' and neither choice is obvious. The good decision makers find the way, more times than not. No decision maker is going to achieve success on 100% of the decisions they make.
You can also make decisions that are good for the short term, but maybe not so good for the long term. Or you can make decisions that are not so good for the short term, but better for the long term. Since most can't see beyond the next quarter, which type of decision usually gets made?
Jeff
Mr. Railman At first it was a distaste for Canadian National, but now it sounds like the CN is making a turnaround, working vigorously on completing construction of the EJ&E improvements, and reinstating old IC and GTW SD40s into service, saving them from the Scrap pile that E. Hunter Harrison wanted to take them to. The Wisconsin Central had about three intermodal terminals on their system, if I'm correct. One was in Green Bay, another in Minneapolis, and a third somewhere else on their system. They also operated parts of Schiller Park for their container shipments. The WC was growing into a powerful railroad empire. Then the CN took acquired them. Harrison got rid of the Intermodal load station in Green bay AND in Minneapolis, basically killing what seemed to be a growing buiness for the regional.He was also quick about getting rid of the WCs EMD power too, including what was left of the GBW (but that's only a minor reason to hate him) One final thing is the employment. This is from an actual dispatcher of the CN, nee WC. He said that he works at one location for thirty days, and then they transfer him to another location for thirty days...which can be understandable so they can learn the system. Now that He is the head of rival Canadian Pacific, He is getting rid of things here. The Sprinter service between Chicago and St Paul, the premeire service through those subdivisions, is now gone. 484 and its counterpart hasbeen mreged with 282s consist, and 282 has been operating with 3-4 variants some days recently. Another thing is the elimination of the Milwaukee Intermodal operations, effective tomorrow. Train 277, a CP train that makes intermediate stops, has been, in the past month or so, carrying at least one set of well cars... ...well cars destined for MILWAUKEE The city might file a lawsuit because of this action, seeing that UP can't transport double stacks due to height restrictions. if Anything, I'd try and find a way to add TOFC to the facility in Milwaukee before deciding to delete it. Also, there is a line of old IC&E/DM&E/CP locomotives ready to go to scrap. OH! One final thing. Amtrak does not have Top Authority anymore through Wisconsin. Looks like we'll be seeing more delays for the Empire Builder. I think this man should look at the quality company he is demolishing. And no, I'm not just mad about demolition of equipment. I am ready for any refutes that come from the rail community.
At first it was a distaste for Canadian National, but now it sounds like the CN is making a turnaround, working vigorously on completing construction of the EJ&E improvements, and reinstating old IC and GTW SD40s into service, saving them from the Scrap pile that E. Hunter Harrison wanted to take them to.
The Wisconsin Central had about three intermodal terminals on their system, if I'm correct. One was in Green Bay, another in Minneapolis, and a third somewhere else on their system. They also operated parts of Schiller Park for their container shipments. The WC was growing into a powerful railroad empire. Then the CN took acquired them. Harrison got rid of the Intermodal load station in Green bay AND in Minneapolis, basically killing what seemed to be a growing buiness for the regional.He was also quick about getting rid of the WCs EMD power too, including what was left of the GBW (but that's only a minor reason to hate him) One final thing is the employment. This is from an actual dispatcher of the CN, nee WC. He said that he works at one location for thirty days, and then they transfer him to another location for thirty days...which can be understandable so they can learn the system.
Now that He is the head of rival Canadian Pacific, He is getting rid of things here. The Sprinter service between Chicago and St Paul, the premeire service through those subdivisions, is now gone. 484 and its counterpart hasbeen mreged with 282s consist, and 282 has been operating with 3-4 variants some days recently.
Another thing is the elimination of the Milwaukee Intermodal operations, effective tomorrow. Train 277, a CP train that makes intermediate stops, has been, in the past month or so, carrying at least one set of well cars...
...well cars destined for MILWAUKEE
The city might file a lawsuit because of this action, seeing that UP can't transport double stacks due to height restrictions. if Anything, I'd try and find a way to add TOFC to the facility in Milwaukee before deciding to delete it.
Also, there is a line of old IC&E/DM&E/CP locomotives ready to go to scrap.
OH! One final thing. Amtrak does not have Top Authority anymore through Wisconsin. Looks like we'll be seeing more delays for the Empire Builder.
I think this man should look at the quality company he is demolishing. And no, I'm not just mad about demolition of equipment.
I am ready for any refutes that come from the rail community.
Actually, I disagree with you as a long-term Milwaukee Road fan that grew up next to the Twin Cities Main. Regardless of who is at the helm, CP has done the former Milwaukee Road property a LOT of good. I have to say that ripping up the double track between a Milwaukee Western Suburb and the Twin Cities I thought is probably a mistake that will come back to haunt them..............they can always relay the track.
Watched the stock of CP increase from about $25 a share to whatever it is today.......it's up there. Most of that rise was because Hunter Harrison was taking over.
Now on the improvements. Milwaukee hung onto the Sprint trains because it had no other ideas for generating revenue and the Milwaukee admitted several times in the press via various leaks they were only marginally profitable. One reason why the Soo Line cut back on the frequencies when they took over. Hunter Harrison is all about making a DECENT RETURN on investment vs just marginal operations that use up track capacity. He cancelled the Jones Island Intermodal operation in Milwaukee because it did not rise to his IRR threshold and I have to say my knowledge was it was another marginal operation that the Soo Line was preserving because it was making money some of the time. As for the Intermodal operation in the Menominee Yard, have to confess I have no clue how well that was doing by my guess with the excellent freeway access Milwaukee has..........it probably was not doing well.
Back to the Soo Line, I really like the fact that the Soo Line or CP, not sure which resignalled most of the former Milwaukee Road. That one move and the removal of directional running on the double track portions has made the railroad a LOT more efficient at moving trains. Would have to disagree that the Empire Builder is going to suffer. I have seen the CP expedite the Empire Builder since Hunter took over so I would take whomever told you the opposite as probably a disgruntled employee.
I remember riding VIA Rail when Hunter was running CN and there were all sorts of stupid rumors being spread by the VIA Rail crew. Hunter was ripping up track in Canada and shipping it South for US Rail operations because Canadian track was higher quality vs US (I had to laugh at this rumor), Then they told me that Hunter ran the railroad unsafely, Hunter was more interested in boosting the US rails worth at the expense of Canadian rails...........all of these dumb rumors being spread by CN Rail employees no doubt and thats how VIA Rail employees got wind of them.
As for the WC. Agree the shareholders wanted to dump Burkhardt in favor of selling the railroad to someone else because Burkhardt was globe trotting and buying up railroads in other countries. Board of Directors thought he was losing focus on US Rail Operations (probably true). So that had nothing to do with Harrison. Have not seen or noticed improvements in WC operations so I cannot comment there beyond they seem to be spending more money now on physical plant improvements.
Overall from what I have seen the Hunter Harrison management team to me looks like an improvement more than a negative.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
IMHO the answer to that depends on just whose definition of "much" and what "playing" means. I have heard several stories (from folks who likely don't work with or know each other) that another Class 1 does play with numbers by having different yards do more or less work by sending blocks thru to be worked elsewhere (which one does what changes) and then often sent back.
Dan
From your experience, how much does "playing" with the figures happen?
The other area where yard dwell figure can, shall we say ,be played with, is when the measurement starts. A train may be held out of the yard, or staged many miles out, because the yard cannot handle it. The dwell time may not include those extra 36 hours the train spent in some more distant siding.
An extreme case of this occurred about 20 years ago in Montreal when the St.Luc hump was closed with no planning. In desperation, they started sending some trains onwards in several directions to the next division points to be flat switched, and then returned to Montreal several days later pre-blocked. The statistics looked wonderful since the first train only spent an hour or two in the terminal and the returned blocks could easily catch the next train out. The shippers didn't care about the wonderful stats; they saw the actual delays were disastrous.
There are several well known sayings about figures and statistics which I am sure most of you know. EHH has been known to use criteria different from the other Class Ones.
John
Streak,
Beaulieu is correct. The yard dwell figure is about how well the terminal is processing its cars. Trains laid down for crews, or for power, is a separate issue and the responsability of different people. When I worked for SP long ago a list of trains held for power or crews, and it was usually for power at the time, was on every morning report.
That delay was not, and should not be, charged to the terminal. They have done their job when the train is set. In terms of dwell time reported to the AAR the delay waiting for power or crew is almost certainly included in the reported terminal dwell.
Railroads have lots of different measures of performance. Internal measures have specific meanings, application, and implications for the managers involved. The AAR defintions may well be different, but I can see no reason they should include a unit train laid down at a terminal for lack of a crew.
Mac
blue streak 1 Paul_D_North_Jr "Terminal Dwell (Hours) Terminal Dwell is the average time a car resides at the specified terminal location expressed in hours. Cars that move through a terminal on a run-through train are excluded, as are stored, bad ordered, and maintenance of way cars." - Paul North. PDN; The definition of terminal dwell time brings up a big question. By excluding run-through trains a manager of a yard is given a hole to drive a ship thru. 1. If I have a shortage of crews or loco power then I can hold the run through and get my yard cleard out if I have parking space for the run-through(s).
Paul_D_North_Jr "Terminal Dwell (Hours) Terminal Dwell is the average time a car resides at the specified terminal location expressed in hours. Cars that move through a terminal on a run-through train are excluded, as are stored, bad ordered, and maintenance of way cars." - Paul North.
"Terminal Dwell (Hours)
Terminal Dwell is the average time a car resides at the specified terminal location expressed in hours. Cars that move through a terminal on a run-through train are excluded, as are stored, bad ordered, and maintenance of way cars."
- Paul North.
PDN; The definition of terminal dwell time brings up a big question. By excluding run-through trains a manager of a yard is given a hole to drive a ship thru.
1. If I have a shortage of crews or loco power then I can hold the run through and get my yard cleard out if I have parking space for the run-through(s).
The manager of a yard, Terminal Superintendent in larger yards, would have no say in crewing decisions on through trains. I would be very surprised if that decision isn't under the purview of the Corridor Manager (Chief Dispatcher) in Calgary. He would make his decision based on railroad level priorities, not local level priorities. Typically your Intermodal and Auto trains will have first call for crews, followed by those other trains that have time guarantees, and based on how they are doing against their schedule. On BNSF the Corridor Manager has a screen at his desk listing any such trains falling down against their schedule. It happens on occasion, that Unit Shuttle Grain trains will get the highest priority on sections of the railroad over everything but Amtrak (wink, wink, even over Amtrak off the record of course). All these decisions would be made by the EVPO on a policy basis, and his deputy the Vice President of Transportation would be the highest point of decision on implementation. If for example a major derailment happened the VPT would make the call on what gets detoured on other companies, and what gets held awaiting reopening of the line. Of course different companies have different names for some of these positions.
Haven't read all the posts, but wonder if these books by Harrison (describing his view of how today's railroad needs to be operated) have been brought up in the discussion? I received the first one as a gift. Don't have the second one.
CN - How We Work and Why (Running A Precision Railroad, Volume 1)
CN - Change, Leadership, Mud and Why (How We Work and Why, Volume 2)
Amazing, to me at least, is that men with twenty-five years experience at CP would have been hired two years after my Dad retired. As such, I had never heard of Mr. Franczak until several years ago when his name began to be mentioned on various Canadian RR forums. Let us just say there are a group of people who feel he had been underutilized in recent years.
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Mr. Mike Franczak, CP's EVP Operations resigned today, Monday October 1st. I can't say that I am surprised, I suspect for a short period that EHH will act as his own EVPO, but the big workload normally associated with the position will mean that it will be filled fairly soon, and with someone that EHH has a large input in choosing.
CP Press Release
2. As upper management I need to know what the total dwell time is for all cars going thru the terminal not just O/D/ SWITCHED CARS.
3. Idle cars or locos are cost items especially per diem on cars. Locos depends on financials of each one.
4. I will grant no charge for refueling, bad order set outs.
5. So a full break down of all terminal dwell times IMHO need to be available to management. That would include trains that are held out of a terminal for whatever reason.
From the "Definitions" page of the "Railroad Performance Measures" website at: http://www.railroadpm.org/Definitions.aspx
Terminal Dwell is the average time a car resides at the specified terminal location expressed in hours. The measurement begins with a customer release, received interchange, or train arrival event and ends with a customer placement (actual or constructive), delivered or offered in interchange, or train departure event. Cars that move through a terminal on a run-through train are excluded, as are stored, bad ordered, and maintenance of way cars."
Also, from the top of the CP page of the "Railroad Performance Measures" (don't know why I didn't see this before):
"PLEASE NOTE: Train speed calculation for the time period May 23-31, 2012 excludes trains staged in terminals and sidings > 72 hours, due to work stoppage by the TCRC Union that resulted in a complete shutdown of CP Canadian Operations."
BaltACD through trains do not count against a terminal's dwell calculation
Thank you for your explanation. It coalesced some random thoughts I had been having on this subject into an easily understood definition.
Actually, I was "this close" to hitting the "Post" button when I added the sentence about the common track area being handled by the road crews, and I realized I had probably answered my own question. Thanks again.
Can't speak to how CP calculates terminal dwell, on my carrier, through trains do not count against a terminal's dwell calculation; only those cars that arrive at the terminal to be reclassified or to be delivered to industries serviced by the terminal as well as cars pulled from industries and are to be dispatched from the terminal are counted in the dwell calculation.
Paul_D_North_Jr if the workload is just being "kicked on down the road" to those other yards.
Which raises a question I was wondering about earlier. I'm not sure how this organization deals with the following type of situation.
Lethbridge, AB: You have Arch Resources(?) unit coal trains passing through N/S on their way to/from the PRB to Prince Rupert, BC. You have Canpotex unit potash trains passing through E/W on their way to/from the mines in Saskatchewan to Portland, OR. All trains must travel on a (approx.)10 mile stretch of common trackage that is terminated at the west end by the east throat of the Lethbridge West yard. Handled by road crews. Including a 1 mile stretch of single track over the "world famous" Lethbridge Viaduct.
You could say that technically the yard isn't part of the congested area, but as posts in the "Hunter, . . so far" thread pointed out, there are big time delays being experienced. And getting in and out of the yard is one of the problems.
I'm not sure their method of reporting "Yard Dwell Times" would properly pick up on this very real source of delay. Have you heard of similar situations where congestion is immediately adjacent to a yard.
AgentKid As it relates to the other thread about Calgary's Alyth Yard, did you see the amazing drop in yard dwell times after CP turned the hump back on at that location. I am really curious to see the September numbers. Paul, thank you for letting us know about this site. I have already bookmarked it. Bruce
Paul, thank you for letting us know about this site. I have already bookmarked it.
A few more weeks of data and a look at the companion yards on either side ought to tell whether the performance is actually improving systemwide, or if the workload is just being "kicked on down the road" to those other yards.
Paul_D_North_JrWasn't there a brief strike of the operating crafts back around then ? That's a more plausible explanation to me.
Yes, the strike ended 06/01/12.
BaltACD The type of metric one would expect when a 'fewer, bigger trains' operating philosophy is implemented. To get more cars for a train, it takes longer for those cars to accumulate to the minimum required to operate the train.
Actually, thinking about it a little further now:
Bruce - you're quite welcome, you too have shared much over the years. Note also that with a few clicks of the computer's mouse, most of those numerical tables can also be presented as graphs with some few options as to what is displayed, which makes it easier to understand all that data.
As it relates to the other thread about Calgary's Alyth Yard, did you see the amazing drop in yard dwell times after CP turned the hump back on at that location. I am really curious to see the September numbers.
Paul_D_North_Jr Ulrich [snipped - PDN] . . . as a shareholder I'm more interested in the metrics and how well the people who are running the company are performing. As I've mentioned before someplace, the "Railroad Performance Measures" ought to provide some insight on these points. And they do - see: http://www.railroadpm.org/Performance%20Reports/CP.aspx , both the "View Current Trends" and the "View 53 Week History" - from the former, it looks like Train Speed is up from 10 to 12 %, and Terminal Dwell is slightly less. However, in the "53 Week History" view, for the week ending 06/01/12 the Terminal Dwell for the Entire Railroad more than doubled from the previous week, from 17.9 to 36.5 hours, with 4 terminals getting into the 50 to 60+ hour range ! Calgary, AB at 52.6 hours; Montreal, PQ at 65.0 hours; Toronto, ON at 51.0 hours; and, Vancouver, BC at 69.3 hours ! Stay tuned for more cogent analysis from time to time . . . - Paul North.
Ulrich [snipped - PDN] . . . as a shareholder I'm more interested in the metrics and how well the people who are running the company are performing.
However, in the "53 Week History" view, for the week ending 06/01/12 the Terminal Dwell for the Entire Railroad more than doubled from the previous week, from 17.9 to 36.5 hours, with 4 terminals getting into the 50 to 60+ hour range !
Stay tuned for more cogent analysis from time to time . . .
The type of metric one would expect when a 'fewer, bigger trains' operating philosophy is implemented. To get more cars for a train, it takes longer for those cars to accumulate to the minimum required to operate the train.
CP also has an order for a large number of ECO's, both 4-motor and 6-motor, from EMD.
They are boasting a hefty amount of GE power, but are also in supply of plenty of EMD locompotives that they're bwginning to send to away, I assume. On the other hand. CN is purchasing about 50 SD60s from Oakway and it sounds like they're going to purchase the rest from them.
On a side note, CN isn't all DC power anymore since they're acquiring SD70ACe's
Mr. Railman Here's a tiny update... Sounds like He's going to spend more money on new GEs, instead of continuing the uopgrade on the SOO SD60s AND the reintroduction of the SD90-43MACs. Sounds like sooner than later the CP will be boasting mostly General electric power, while the identity of the SOO Line and the DM&E slowly crumble.
Here's a tiny update...
Sounds like He's going to spend more money on new GEs, instead of continuing the uopgrade on the SOO SD60s AND the reintroduction of the SD90-43MACs. Sounds like sooner than later the CP will be boasting mostly General electric power, while the identity of the SOO Line and the DM&E slowly crumble.
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