QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill Kevin: What I believe you were proposing is a compulsory spin-off. The U.S. government is highly restricted in its authority to compel a private company to either acquire a unit, or dispose of a unit. If you wanted a compulsory spin-off of a UP component, your first problem is that the laws don't exist to give the government the authority to do this. There's little to prevent UP's owners from approving a voluntary spin-off, however. You could either purchase enough control of UP to do what you wanted with it, or, you could convince the owners that it was in their best interest. Under current U.S. law, these are your only viable options.
QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill ... and laws had to be written first to make it legal, too.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan White knights protect the kingdom from being set in flames.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod Not to stay OT too long, but please explain something. You say you're 25, but you've already been going through menopause? I don't understand.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard This might clear up some of the confusion, then again, maybe not, But here goes... Our founding father were of the opinion that the less government interfers with the lives of the citizens, the better. In fact, the original concept was to establish a formal standing Army to defend the new nation, administer the collective executive functions of the seperate states, and establish a federal government to establish limited federal policy to govern those states on a limited basis. Jefferson, one of the framers of our constitution, wanted to base almost all the legal precepts on a agricultural based soceity, Franklin leaned more towards a industrial based, business orinented idea.... The compromise is what you know as the current constitution, which, by the way, was designed from the begining to be a changable document. Jefferson wanted to include in it the legal requirement that it be scrapped every 10 years or so, so that each generation would have to start over and write a new one, the idea being that as times changed, the laws should follow suit, with each generation being able to write their own laws for their own times... Instead, the ability to write admendents, with the necessity of the general populace to vote on, and approve said admendents, was included instead. So, yes, if the general populace decided on a radical change in policy, then it could happen, but... Such a change would have to, for lack of a better description, be run through the legal mill, be presented to our congress, pass muster in front of our Supreme Court, so forth and so on. Andrew, you mentioned the Applo project as a radical change, when in fact, it was no such thing. Going to the moon took almost ten years to accomplish,and once there, we quit after only a few visits. Why? Because we discovered there was no financial benefit to establish a coloney there. Instead, it was the natural progression of our quest for military supremacy, pitched to the American public by one of our most effective Presidents, JFK. You also called the civil rights movement a radical change, forgetting that its roots, the American Civil War, was fought almost a century before, with no clear results in the treatment of blacks beyond the establishment of laws that were rarely followed. Almost every civilization has, at some point, established such laws, and almost every one promptly ignored them. While I applaude you for supporting, and believing so much in your form of goverment, and it's culture and soceity's value system, I wi***o caution you on passing judgement on the American system, until you become a citizen here, and participate in it. This is one of the few nations on earth were the individule isn't subordinate to the state, and where individule freedoms don't take a back seat to the needs of the government. Our nation was founded, in part, on the concept that the right of the citizens come first, before the needs of the government, and that the government was, and still is, a instrument of the citizens will and wishes. Here, outside military and national emergencies, our goverment can not "pass laws" or alter exsisting laws without the consent of the people. Also note that almost every single nation on this planet has, at some point in time, borrowed huge amounts of money from our lending institutions and our goverment. Almost every nation too, has requested of us some form of aid, be it famine relief, military help, or some form of economic help. Canada itself has dipped into the well of American generosity on occasion, as have most South American nations. We routinely provide you with economic aid, in some form or fashion. Trade agreements, the forgiving of debts in exchange for goods or services, the lowering of interest rates to facilitate or ease in the repayment of said debts is common, but not often mentioned in debates. During WWII, America was the arsenal of the free world, providing weapons, men and material to the Allies in quanities that stagger the imagination, and almost all of it was nevre paid for by those who received it. I noticed the rest of the world never seems to mind knocking us, and never seems to tire of pointing out what they see as our short comings, but I also note then don't seem to mind eating the wheat we grow, or borrowing our money. They quickly call on our military might when they get in trouble, yet as soon as we take care of their problem and leave, they dont hesitate to begin calling us imperialist war mongers, or worse. Frankly, Andrew, your views are very limited by your experiences...not that being young is somehow wrong, but being arrogant and highly opiniated is. When your view of a hards days work is moving office funiture, and almost having something heavy fall on you is your concept of dangerous, well... I have lived, briefly, in your country, and found the people there to be the most excellent hosts one could ask for... But I have also lived in the Soivet Union, Japan, England, Germany, and India, where I learned the true meaning of the concept of compasion, and the horrifying,and destructive power racisim, and the caste system, can have on the human sprit. I have seen people beaten with bamboo slats, because they allowed their shadow to fall on a person of a higher caste. I watched a old man being being paid for cleaning out a toilet, with a cup of water from that same toilet, because the owner of the home felt it beneath him to allow this person to drink from the same facuet as he did. I have seen children in the Sudan, attempting to eat raw grain, because thats all they had. I have brought three lives into this world, and taken one mans life away. And I have been lucky enought to have saved a life also, so I might just be square with God on that one, maybe. But before you continue to tell me whats so wrong with my country, you might want to tell us what, exactly, you have done to make this world a better place for us all, besides learning how to compose music for the piano. What did you change in Canada to make it a better place to live? Which injustice did you redress, and what do you plan to do about all the other un- fair, wrong, and imoral things that happen every day in this world? I dont consider Americans superior to the rest of the world, nor do I feel I am better than most, neither by birth or caste, color or religion. But I did find most of your statements on your life experience to be rather pompous and arrogant, and even though they managed to give me a reason to chuckle, they also gave me a reason to pity you, too. Your secluded life has limited your view of the world, and your lack of experience left you navie. You called me rude and cheeky, and a barbarian...true through out,,,but then, I have been called a lot worse things, by a lot better people... You missed almost every thing myself, Gabe, Mark and Limitedclear and others have tried to show you... That here, in America, there is no guarantee you can or will succeed, no promise of a lifetime of support...but there is the guarantee that the goverment cant force you to fail, it cant decide what you have to be, or limit how far you go, or how much you make, where you have to live, what language you have to speak.. There aren't too many other countries where I could write "The President (George Bush) Sucks" on a public forum, and not have the police knocking on my door later that night. While I am glad you like living in a soceity where your needs are met, cradle to grave, I am also glad that you, not me, pays so much in taxes to support that system, and live under the limits such a system imposes. As for me, I will take the barbaric,, backwards, uncouth and impratical ole USA over everyhwere else I have lived. Because here, I get to tell my goverment what to do, not the other way around. And, while your claim to fame is having hobknobed with a harpichordest, world reknowned or other wise, I have had lunch with a Admiral, played golf with a two star General, and taught a Air Force Major to ride a horse. I have laughingly gone surfing in a hurrican, stood in my front yard and screamed at a tornado, and whispered at a African sunset that defies description. I have held a old man as he died, and cradled my newborn daughter as she drew her first breath. I have hunted deer in west Texas, and gone fishing in the sea of Japan. I have seen the *** camps, and looked at shadows burned into the pavement at Hiroshima. I did most of this before I was twenty, so your twenty five sound a little dissapointing. Be real clear on this, you can ask me any question you chose, and if I know the answer, I will glady give it to you, freely and without pause... But never presume to think for one minute you ever had, or ever will have the right to tell me what to do, how to live, or what to think. And that, my friend, is the major difference between me and you... I expect to work hard and long, for everything I get. I live loud and livley, love fully and completly, and plan to die old, but free, owing nothing to no one.... Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Oh, and a six-percent profit! That is a long way from Enron.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard This might clear up some of the confusion, then again, maybe not, But here goes... Our founding father were of the opinion that the less government interfers with the lives of the citizens, the better. In fact, the original concept was to establish a formal standing Army to defend the new nation, administer the collective executive functions of the seperate states, and establish a federal government to establish limited federal policy to govern those states on a limited basis. Jefferson, one of the framers of our constitution, wanted to base almost all the legal precepts on a agricultural based soceity, Franklin leaned more towards a industrial based, business orinented idea.... The compromise is what you know as the current constitution, which, by the way, was designed from the begining to be a changable document. Jefferson wanted to include in it the legal requirement that it be scrapped every 10 years or so, so that each generation would have to start over and write a new one, the idea being that as times changed, the laws should follow suit, with each generation being able to write their own laws for their own times... Instead, the ability to write admendents, with the necessity of the general populace to vote on, and approve said admendents, was included instead. So, yes, if the general populace decided on a radical change in policy, then it could happen, but... Such a change would have to, for lack of a better description, be run through the legal mill, be presented to our congress, pass muster in front of our Supreme Court, so forth and so on. Andrew, you mentioned the Applo project as a radical change, when in fact, it was no such thing. Going to the moon took almost ten years to accomplish,and once there, we quit after only a few visits. Why? Because we discovered there was no financial benefit to establish a coloney there. Instead, it was the natural progression of our quest for military supremacy, pitched to the American public by one of our most effective Presidents, JFK. You also called the civil rights movement a radical change, forgetting that its roots, the American Civil War, was fought almost a century before, with no clear results in the treatment of blacks beyond the establishment of laws that were rarely followed. Almost every civilization has, at some point, established such laws, and almost every one promptly ignored them. While I applaude you for supporting, and believing so much in your form of goverment, and it's culture and soceity's value system, I wi***o caution you on passing judgement on the American system, until you become a citizen here, and participate in it. This is one of the few nations on earth were the individule isn't subordinate to the state, and where individule freedoms don't take a back seat to the needs of the government. Our nation was founded, in part, on the concept that the right of the citizens come first, before the needs of the government, and that the government was, and still is, a instrument of the citizens will and wishes. Here, outside military and national emergencies, our goverment can not "pass laws" or alter exsisting laws without the consent of the people. Also note that almost every single nation on this planet has, at some point in time, borrowed huge amounts of money from our lending institutions and our goverment. Almost every nation too, has requested of us some form of aid, be it famine relief, military help, or some form of economic help. Canada itself has dipped into the well of American generosity on occasion, as have most South American nations. We routinely provide you with economic aid, in some form or fashion. Trade agreements, the forgiving of debts in exchange for goods or services, the lowering of interest rates to facilitate or ease in the repayment of said debts is common, but not often mentioned in debates. During WWII, America was the arsenal of the free world, providing weapons, men and material to the Allies in quanities that stagger the imagination, and almost all of it was nevre paid for by those who received it. I noticed the rest of the world never seems to mind knocking us, and never seems to tire of pointing out what they see as our short comings, but I also note then don't seem to mind eating the wheat we grow, or borrowing our money. They quickly call on our military might when they get in trouble, yet as soon as we take care of their problem and leave, they dont hesitate to begin calling us imperialist war mongers, or worse. Frankly, Andrew, your views are very limited by your experiences...not that being young is somehow wrong, but being arrogant and highly opiniated is. When your view of a hards days work is moving office funiture, and almost having something heavy fall on you is your concept of dangerous, well... I have lived, briefly, in your country, and found the people there to be the most excellent hosts one could ask for... But I have also lived in the Soivet Union, Japan, England, Germany, and India, where I learned the true meaning of the concept of compasion, and the horrifying,and destructive power racisim, and the caste system, can have on the human sprit. I have seen people beaten with bamboo slats, because they allowed their shadow to fall on a person of a higher caste. I watched a old man being being paid for cleaning out a toilet, with a cup of water from that same toilet, because the owner of the home felt it beneath him to allow this person to drink from the same facuet as he did. I have seen children in the Sudan, attempting to eat raw grain, because thats all they had. I have brought three lives into this world, and taken one mans life away. And I have been lucky enought to have saved a life also, so I might just be square with God on that one, maybe. But before you continue to tell me whats so wrong with my country, you might want to tell us what, exactly, you have done to make this world a better place for us all, besides learning how to compose music for the piano. What did you change in Canada to make it a better place to live? Which injustice did you redress, and what do you plan to do about all the other un- fair, wrong, and imoral things that happen every day in this world? I dont consider Americans superior to the rest of the world, nor do I feel I am better than most, neither by birth or caste, color or religion. But I did find most of your statements on your life experience to be rather pompous and arrogant, and even though they managed to give me a reason to chuckle, they also gave me a reason to pity you, too. Your secluded life has limited your view of the world, and your lack of experience left you naive. You called me rude and cheeky, and a barbarian...true through out,,,but then, I have been called a lot worse things, by a lot better people... You missed almost every thing myself, Gabe, Mark and Limitedclear and others have tried to show you... That here, in America, there is no guarantee you can or will succeed, no promise of a lifetime of support...but there is the guarantee that the goverment cant force you to fail, it cant decide what you have to be, or limit how far you go, or how much you make, where you have to live, what language you have to speak.. There aren't too many other countries where I could write "The President (George Bush) Sucks" on a public forum, and not have the police knocking on my door later that night. While I am glad you like living in a soceity where your needs are met, cradle to grave, I am also glad that you, not me, pays so much in taxes to support that system, and live under the limits such a system imposes. As for me, I will take the barbaric, backwards, uncouth and impratical ole USA over everyhwere else I have lived. Because here, I get to tell my goverment what to do, not the other way around. And, while your claim to fame is having hobknobed with a harpichordest, world reknowned or other wise, I have had lunch with a Admiral, played golf with a two star General, and taught a Air Force Major to ride a horse. I have laughingly gone surfing in a hurrican, stood in my front yard and screamed at a tornado, and whispered at a African sunset that defies description. I have held a old man as he died, and cradled my newborn daughter as she drew her first breath. I have hunted deer in west Texas, and gone fishing in the sea of Japan. I have seen the *** camps, and looked at shadows burned into the pavement at Hiroshima. I did most of this before I was twenty, so your twenty five sound a little disappointing. Be real clear on this, you can ask me any question you chose, and if I know the answer, I will glady give it to you, freely and without pause... But never presume to think for one minute you ever had, or ever will have the right to tell me what to do, how to live, or what to think. And that, my friend, is the major difference between me and you... I expect to work hard and long, for everything I get. I live loud and liveley, love fully and completely, and plan to die old, but free, owing nothing to no one.... Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan. It's pretty god damn bad that all this UP bashing will ever go away any time soon. I make my self look realy damn stupid when a worker from the railroad comes over to me and askes why I don't like the UP.I tell them that I realy don't like the UP for reasons unknown,and when they ask me why,I just stand there with no words coming out of my mouth,so in the prosess I just make myself look really dumb.
QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken Aw c'mon...... I want to see Transport Canada would do in trying to dictate terms to the Yellow Peril! just once......[(-D][(-D][(-D]
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