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High Line locomotive sculpture: NYC or not?

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:22 AM

The model railroaders have a term for that - they call it "Giant Hand Action" !  Smile, Wink & Grin

I also wonder if the "art-eest" stole his inspiration from a Lionel or AC Gilbert model of a popular model of a Santa Fe 2900-series 4-8-4 ?  Otherwise, why use it, instead of a NYC J3-class Hudson, which was and is just as popular as a model, and also with more local roots (although those too never operated there, either . . . Whistling ).

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Posted by vsmith on Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:54 AM

The artist has it TOTALLY wrong, instead of a stupid ugly crane it should be a enormous fiberglass hand and arm reaching down from between the buildings holding the train up in the air!

Man I'm not a professional artist but even I can see this would way cooler idea than a stupid crane!

   Have fun with your trains

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:42 AM

Art itself, is not a waste of money - if the finished product is pleasing to the party that supported it's creation.  The N&W was pleased with the J's in streamlined form thus they didn't waste the money.

What I find abhorrent is to have any locomotive that is designed to operate in a horizontal plane, suspended from a crane, or representation of a crane, in a vertical plane which denotes it crashing to ground and destroying itself.

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, March 29, 2012 9:32 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH

Since art in any form seems to be considered a waste of money, perhaps N&W should have saved some money and not streamlined the J's.  After all, form follows function.

 

Works for me.  I was never a fan of the streamlined Js.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:49 AM

Art is in the eye of the beholder. 

I think the average Picasso looks like it should be hanging on someone's refrigerator.  Obviously a lot of very rich people disagree with me.

I understand the replica locomotive, I don't understand hanging it from a crane, nose down.

Dave

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 29, 2012 7:14 AM

Since art in any form seems to be considered a waste of money, perhaps N&W should have saved some money and not streamlined the J's.  After all, form follows function.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Dakguy201 on Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:49 AM

zugmann

This is why you shouldn't sniff your paints, boys and girls.

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing!  Well done!

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Posted by Firelock76 on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:39 PM

Bloody ridiculous!  You could buy and restore a REAL steam locomotive for a hell of a lot less than that 25 million!  And need we be reminded, it's been illegal to operate a steam locomotive in Manhattan for at least 100 years.  Why put up a dummy, even in that whacked out pose, where a real one never operated?

Can't the City spend the money on something more useful, like road repairs?

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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 4:24 PM

NY Times article 5 years ago...

Mr. Koons imagines periodic chugging noises. "It will be absolutely so authentic a performance of a train," he said, that it could fool "an engineer who's worked on a train his whole life."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/arts/design/05koon.html?_r=1

 

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:13 PM

"It's completely stupid - so it must be good art!"

 

There will always be people with more money than sense, I guess.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 12:09 PM

I would say that this is totally out of phase with railfans’ preferences for railroad art.  However, it is perfectly in phase with the art genre that is capable of raising big money to pay for it.  But then again, I think the locomotive theme is way too industrial, too “fossil fuel” for those financial supporters.  I would be very surprised if this gets built.

 

The kind of art in this genre that does get supported and built is things like this:

 

For his “Over The River” project, artist Christo will suspend 5.9 miles of fabric over sections of the Arkansas River at a cost of $50 million.  It will take 2.5 years, require massive amounts of drilling equipment and cranes, and require drilling over 9000 holes into the canyon walls.  

 

http://www.dailycamera.com/state-west-news/ci_20270680/fremont-county-gives-approval-christo-plan

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:44 AM

This is why you shouldn't sniff your paints, boys and girls.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:35 AM

It's not even art - just an ego trip.  One consolation - I suppose -  is that a good portion of the $25 million would be spent on and go to people for doing something more or less useful, such as providing the steel, fabricating it, renting the crane and operating it, etc. - those are all legitimate activities, and those folks should feel like they've earned it and go home and spend it on the families, etc.  But the alleged 'artist' should get little or none of it - if he gets any significant amount, then that's a sure sign that this is mostly a con scheme to line his pockets instead ! 

Suppose he wanted to do the same kind of thing with the front half of a Boeing 747 at JFK Airport - i.e., cut it off just behind the wings, and hang it pointing straight down at the ground, like it's in the last few feet of a 'death dive' before crashing ?  Would the powers-that-be, the art world, the locals, or passengers tolerate that ?  I think not. 

Why not just create a full-size sculpture or profile/ silhouette of a NYC S1-b class Niagara and put it up there in the normal horizontal position ?  (Of course, none of those even ran on the High Line, either . . . Whistling )

- Paul North.   

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:38 AM

Artists love OPM!

Other Peoples Money!

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:46 PM

No tender ?!?  And in that position, it reminds me of a Gomez Addams type stunt to wreck a train . . . Sigh

The 2900-series class of AT&SF's 4-8-4's were built by Baldwin in 1943, and the one in the article that is depicted hanging downwards (like a trophy marlin fish at the weigh-in) seems at least superficially similar in the firebox shape, pilot, etc.  See:

 http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?steam=Atchison+Topeka+&+Santa+Fe+Railroad=2903

and  http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/?page=atsf 

What a travesty, though - calling that a homage to steam in a place that the original probably didn't come within 1,000 miles of ! 

For $25 million, I'd like to try to recreate a full-size working duplicate of the original - kind of like the British did with their Tornado a couple years ago - not some cut-out imitation like a tin-metal toy !

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:11 PM

.....I like "Art".  I don't like to see money wasted.

What is the thinking behind such a display.....?

Rail fans, perhaps are the people who mostly know what the "High Line" was at one time.....And I doubt if many of them would find delight in seeing a "railroad item" on display as shown....

And oh so many places in this world that 25 million would help so much and many.

Quentin

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Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:46 PM

Silly...

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:47 PM

And 'artists' question why many find them insane!

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:20 PM

Phoebe Vet
I understand the idea of an art piece that appears to be a full size train part, but the logic of hanging it on end from a crane escapes me.

It is a lot like covering a mountainside with ten-thousand pink umbrellas. 

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:14 PM

I bet that there are a lot of better places the High Line could put that 25 million dollars.

I understand the idea of an art piece that appears to be a full size train part, but the logic of hanging it on end from a crane escapes me.

Dave

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:49 PM

Here is a link:

 

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/high-line-may-mix-past-with-koonss-vision/

 

I think it is a squirrelly concept.  I could see art that honors the railroad by exaggeration, as this is purported to intend, but suspending the locomotive on end, seems to disrespect the subject almost in a mocking manner. 

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Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:28 PM

Today's (Tues., March 27) New York Times has a large article on a planned sculpture for the High Line in New York City.  Artist Jeff Koons plans to suspend "a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive.  Called simply "Train," it has not yet been fabricated."  Estimated cost: $25 million.

Now, the article has a large artist's rendering of how the locomotive would look hanging over the park.  To my eyes it doesn't look like a New York Central locomotive.  But am I right?  Can any readers here look at the photo (I assume it's online as well as in print) and tell me if that's an NYC engine?

It will come as no surprise to readers of this forum that the article's author doesn't address the question as to the locomotive's heritage.  After all, steam locomotives all look alike, right?

I like the idea of this piece of art and I like the rendering.  But it just bothers me that right in Manhattan, hanging over the High Line, will be a Baldwin.  

Should the Alco enthusiasts among us swing into action?

Anyway, take a look guys; you'll enjoy the piece.

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