Today's (Tues., March 27) New York Times has a large article on a planned sculpture for the High Line in New York City. Artist Jeff Koons plans to suspend "a full-size replica of a 1943 Baldwin 2900 steam locomotive. Called simply "Train," it has not yet been fabricated." Estimated cost: $25 million.
Now, the article has a large artist's rendering of how the locomotive would look hanging over the park. To my eyes it doesn't look like a New York Central locomotive. But am I right? Can any readers here look at the photo (I assume it's online as well as in print) and tell me if that's an NYC engine?
It will come as no surprise to readers of this forum that the article's author doesn't address the question as to the locomotive's heritage. After all, steam locomotives all look alike, right?
I like the idea of this piece of art and I like the rendering. But it just bothers me that right in Manhattan, hanging over the High Line, will be a Baldwin.
Should the Alco enthusiasts among us swing into action?
Anyway, take a look guys; you'll enjoy the piece.
Here is a link:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/high-line-may-mix-past-with-koonss-vision/
I think it is a squirrelly concept. I could see art that honors the railroad by exaggeration, as this is purported to intend, but suspending the locomotive on end, seems to disrespect the subject almost in a mocking manner.
I bet that there are a lot of better places the High Line could put that 25 million dollars.
I understand the idea of an art piece that appears to be a full size train part, but the logic of hanging it on end from a crane escapes me.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe VetI understand the idea of an art piece that appears to be a full size train part, but the logic of hanging it on end from a crane escapes me.
It is a lot like covering a mountainside with ten-thousand pink umbrellas.
And 'artists' question why many find them insane!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Silly...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
.....I like "Art". I don't like to see money wasted.
What is the thinking behind such a display.....?
Rail fans, perhaps are the people who mostly know what the "High Line" was at one time.....And I doubt if many of them would find delight in seeing a "railroad item" on display as shown....
And oh so many places in this world that 25 million would help so much and many.
Quentin
No tender ?!? And in that position, it reminds me of a Gomez Addams type stunt to wreck a train . . .
The 2900-series class of AT&SF's 4-8-4's were built by Baldwin in 1943, and the one in the article that is depicted hanging downwards (like a trophy marlin fish at the weigh-in) seems at least superficially similar in the firebox shape, pilot, etc. See:
http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?steam=Atchison+Topeka+&+Santa+Fe+Railroad=2903
and http://www.steamlocomotive.com/northern/?page=atsf
What a travesty, though - calling that a homage to steam in a place that the original probably didn't come within 1,000 miles of !
For $25 million, I'd like to try to recreate a full-size working duplicate of the original - kind of like the British did with their Tornado a couple years ago - not some cut-out imitation like a tin-metal toy !
- Paul North.
Artists love OPM!
Other Peoples Money!
It's not even art - just an ego trip. One consolation - I suppose - is that a good portion of the $25 million would be spent on and go to people for doing something more or less useful, such as providing the steel, fabricating it, renting the crane and operating it, etc. - those are all legitimate activities, and those folks should feel like they've earned it and go home and spend it on the families, etc. But the alleged 'artist' should get little or none of it - if he gets any significant amount, then that's a sure sign that this is mostly a con scheme to line his pockets instead !
Suppose he wanted to do the same kind of thing with the front half of a Boeing 747 at JFK Airport - i.e., cut it off just behind the wings, and hang it pointing straight down at the ground, like it's in the last few feet of a 'death dive' before crashing ? Would the powers-that-be, the art world, the locals, or passengers tolerate that ? I think not.
Why not just create a full-size sculpture or profile/ silhouette of a NYC S1-b class Niagara and put it up there in the normal horizontal position ? (Of course, none of those even ran on the High Line, either . . . )
This is why you shouldn't sniff your paints, boys and girls.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I would say that this is totally out of phase with railfans’ preferences for railroad art. However, it is perfectly in phase with the art genre that is capable of raising big money to pay for it. But then again, I think the locomotive theme is way too industrial, too “fossil fuel” for those financial supporters. I would be very surprised if this gets built.
The kind of art in this genre that does get supported and built is things like this:
For his “Over The River” project, artist Christo will suspend 5.9 miles of fabric over sections of the Arkansas River at a cost of $50 million. It will take 2.5 years, require massive amounts of drilling equipment and cranes, and require drilling over 9000 holes into the canyon walls.
http://www.dailycamera.com/state-west-news/ci_20270680/fremont-county-gives-approval-christo-plan
"It's completely stupid - so it must be good art!"
There will always be people with more money than sense, I guess.
NY Times article 5 years ago...
Mr. Koons imagines periodic chugging noises. "It will be absolutely so authentic a performance of a train," he said, that it could fool "an engineer who's worked on a train his whole life."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/05/arts/design/05koon.html?_r=1
Bloody ridiculous! You could buy and restore a REAL steam locomotive for a hell of a lot less than that 25 million! And need we be reminded, it's been illegal to operate a steam locomotive in Manhattan for at least 100 years. Why put up a dummy, even in that whacked out pose, where a real one never operated?
Can't the City spend the money on something more useful, like road repairs?
zugmann This is why you shouldn't sniff your paints, boys and girls.
I nearly fell out of my chair laughing! Well done!
Since art in any form seems to be considered a waste of money, perhaps N&W should have saved some money and not streamlined the J's. After all, form follows function.
Art is in the eye of the beholder.
I think the average Picasso looks like it should be hanging on someone's refrigerator. Obviously a lot of very rich people disagree with me.
I understand the replica locomotive, I don't understand hanging it from a crane, nose down.
CSSHEGEWISCH Since art in any form seems to be considered a waste of money, perhaps N&W should have saved some money and not streamlined the J's. After all, form follows function.
Works for me. I was never a fan of the streamlined Js.
Art itself, is not a waste of money - if the finished product is pleasing to the party that supported it's creation. The N&W was pleased with the J's in streamlined form thus they didn't waste the money.
What I find abhorrent is to have any locomotive that is designed to operate in a horizontal plane, suspended from a crane, or representation of a crane, in a vertical plane which denotes it crashing to ground and destroying itself.
The artist has it TOTALLY wrong, instead of a stupid ugly crane it should be a enormous fiberglass hand and arm reaching down from between the buildings holding the train up in the air!
Man I'm not a professional artist but even I can see this would way cooler idea than a stupid crane!
Have fun with your trains
The model railroaders have a term for that - they call it "Giant Hand Action" !
I also wonder if the "art-eest" stole his inspiration from a Lionel or AC Gilbert model of a popular model of a Santa Fe 2900-series 4-8-4 ? Otherwise, why use it, instead of a NYC J3-class Hudson, which was and is just as popular as a model, and also with more local roots (although those too never operated there, either . . . ).
Think of it as the ultimate "Hand of God" switcher in action. for $25 M how much you wanna bet i could get the hand to move up and down while holding it while the wheels are turning and steam is a puffing. The thing is that Hollywood has been making fiberglass steam engines for years and I can tell you for a fact they didnt need $25M to do them, can you imagin if it cost that much to make a fiberglass replica (whose wheels turned also) of the Hooterville Cannonball? I think that series would be over awefully fast! What about the engine they built for Hell On Wheels? Some methinks the actual costs of this installation is closer to $5M, with $20M going to a retirement account in the Camen Islands and some creative Max Byalistock accounting to ensure the installation appears to loses money and to outside eyes to have gone bust.
Well said - "+1".
The crane represents that internal struggle between mankind of the industrial-revolutionary relationship complexities, and is a statement on the pseudo-realism of our metal-dependent lives.
Actually, I have no clue - but I bet I could get some rich people to donate if I fed them the above BS line.
Caveat - I am a Native New Yorker, but I left.
Art? I think not. Symbolism? All wrong for the location. Price? Pre - bloody - posterous!
Note that the driving force seems to be a bunch of Angelinos. Maybe that's the reason for the locomotive that couldn't have reached those tracks on a multi-megabuck bet. (It would have fit the tunnels at the Hudson Narrows like a champagne cork.) If I was part of the New York power structure I would simply tell this artiste to start at the proposed site and walk directly west about half a mile.
(I don't remember any part of the High Line being that far from the bank of the Hudson...)
Some years ago I saw a thing on a street corner in Rancho Cordova, CA. It looked rather like a ruined coast defense gun mount. I was told that it was ART, put there in compliance with some local ordinance requiring something of aesthetic value among the simple rectangular industrial structures.
I guess art is in the eye of the beholder. So is scrap metal.
Chuck (ex - Noo Yawka)
zugmann The crane represents that internal struggle between mankind of the industrial-revolutionary relationship complexities, and is a statement on the pseudo-realism of our metal-dependent lives. Actually, I have no clue - but I bet I could get some rich people to donate if I fed them the above BS line.
Split the $ with me, zug ?
Did I ever post my little series of rail-element-containing sculptures here in the Lehigh Valley ? There were 3, and today I saw a 4th (kind of - maybe mine-car-based instead ?), but no time to get a photo of it. Maybe someday soon . . .
Yet another reason to boycott NYC (as though I needed another).
ChuckAllen, TX
This proposal is insulting not only to the High Line, which is a fabulous example of reusing old industrial trackage and a great place for a Sunday afternoon stroll, but insulting to the whole railroad industry by suspending a phony engine like a fish at the end of a hook. Ridiculous!
"I'd like to buy one art, please!"
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