da_kraut It is highly unlikely that the production would shift to China because of the transportation costs of moving such huge pieces of cargo.
It is highly unlikely that the production would shift to China because of the transportation costs of moving such huge pieces of cargo.
Also, do not forget what happened when NYS&W tried to import a locomotive made in China.
R.I.P. NYS&W #141
Yes, would be great if Bombardier or someone else could step in where CAT left off in London. Somehow I doubt that will happen though. Locomotives are just too big and sophisticated now...any newcomer to the North American locomotive market niche would have to overcome some near impossible obstacles to win away any market share from CAT or GE. But never say never I guess. Baldwin, Lima, and Alco were also once dominant locomotive builders and look where they are now. Who knows...maybe there's an industrial genius in our midst who can turn things around for us.
Ulrich The pay cuts were simply a preamble to shutting down the plant. CAT is not stupid, and they would have realized that a 50% pay cut would not go over. They did this for one reason only...because they could. They understand the political climate in the United States and that a move from Canada to the US now would make favorable headlines in the US, and that would play well where it counts for them. They also realized that a plant in Canada is nolonger that attractive to them for other reasons...our dollar is much stronger today than it was 5 years ago...and there are all kinds of complexities when dealing internationally that can be sidestepped by bringing the plant to the US. As a Canadian I don't view this as a totally bad development. It is a further stark reminder and wakeup call that we in Canada need to put some effort into creating our own industry instead of simply selling off everything we have to foreign interests or relying on large multinationals who don't have any interest in local ties. Hopefully the plant closure in London will make that abundantly clear to our business and political leaders.
The pay cuts were simply a preamble to shutting down the plant. CAT is not stupid, and they would have realized that a 50% pay cut would not go over. They did this for one reason only...because they could. They understand the political climate in the United States and that a move from Canada to the US now would make favorable headlines in the US, and that would play well where it counts for them. They also realized that a plant in Canada is nolonger that attractive to them for other reasons...our dollar is much stronger today than it was 5 years ago...and there are all kinds of complexities when dealing internationally that can be sidestepped by bringing the plant to the US. As a Canadian I don't view this as a totally bad development. It is a further stark reminder and wakeup call that we in Canada need to put some effort into creating our own industry instead of simply selling off everything we have to foreign interests or relying on large multinationals who don't have any interest in local ties. Hopefully the plant closure in London will make that abundantly clear to our business and political leaders.
Ulrich, I totally agree with you and what was said. What Cat done to London, EMD done to La Grange both decisions were total motivation of profits. Companies such as Cat have share holders to answer to and as a result do not care about local ties and make decisions solely on profit margins.
I was fortunate enough to go for a tour of the London plant last year. Being an electrician that has worked in the Cambridge Toyota plant, Woodstock Toyota plant, Ingersoll GM plant and the ex St., Thomas Sterling/Freightliner plant it was easy to see that there were no large assembly lines. These locomotives are hand assembled with very skilled labour. It is a shame that Cat will pay their new work force department store wages to do this work that requires a lot of skill in some cases. A great way to destroy the middle class by underpaying what the work is truly worth.
Here is to hoping that the production of these locomotives will not move to Brazil South America from their plant in the US. It is highly unlikely that the production would shift to China because of the transportation costs of moving such huge pieces of cargo.
I also feel for the workers of the plant that are still striking outside of the plant. Apparently there is a SD80ACe that is still in the plant, and I guess a lot of equipment as well. I drove past the plant last Friday.
Personally, I think it would be great if Bombardier would start producing locomotives for the North American market in that plant. They have the TRAXX series of locomotives in Europe and the rest of the world that are proving to be quite competitive. It would be great to see a third player in the North American locomotive market.
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
Mr. Railman I think you are looking at Caterpillar at a whole when looking at your sources. CAT doesn't just produce locomotives, and EMD just became a part of CAT in 2010. You have to focus on EMD and its finances for the past years, as well as CATs decisions to keep facilities close together. Who's to say that EMD has been oing down in the revenue charts?
Actually I did look for EMD's financial statements as well as those of Progressive Rail. Unfortunately, since both companies private and are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Caterpillar, neither is required by the Securities and Exchange Commission to release their annual returns. So this makes hard for an outsider to understand how EMD is performing financially outside of the "sanitized" press releases about plant closures/openings or locomotive orders, etc. The numbers I pulled from Caterpillar is from their consolidated financial sheets which is combined financial data of Caterpillar and all its subsidiaries. Without SEC filings, it's almost impossible to tell the financial state the EMD. One can only speculate.
MerrilyWeRollAlong Thomas 9011: I have worked for the brotherhood of locomotive engineers, the Teamsters, the boilermakers, and many other unions. I don't understand their logic and believe they are out of touch with reality. They refuse to budge on their pay scale even if it results in the entire plant closing down and everyone losing their jobs. I understand people don't want to take a pay cut even if it is 50%. But the alternative is no job, and no money. Maybe Unions will start to realize that times have changed, and if they are stubborn and greedy they will end up on the unemployment line with everyone else. Thomas 9011, I don't know and I don't care what you do, but ask yourself, if your boss came to you and said take a "10% pay cut or lose your job", how would you feel? You'd probably feel really shizzy with a "z" and angry. So you say 10% isn't so bad. I don't know how much you make but let's say it's $50,000. A 10% cut is $5,000 less, so now you make $45,000. Maybe you could live on that. Now let's pretend you work for Catapiller and you make $50,000 and are asked to take a 50% pay cut. You're being asked to work for only $25,000 per year. What if you had a mortgage and kids? Can you honestly really live on that and be happy that you still have a job with a 50% pay cut?! It's an insult. And by the way, yes unions have sometimes been unreasonable for asking for too much or not taking a cut which results in job losses. But seriously, put yourself in a position where your boss says take a pay cut or take a hike. It's not fun, it's insulting and it emasculates people, especially if the company is doing just fine. Based on Caterpillar's financial statements, it looks like they're doing just fine. They're not in bankruptcy or close to it. I've highlighted some of their key financial indicators below (all $ in billions): Sales: 2008 - $51.324; 2009 - $32.396; 2010 - $42.588; 2011 - $60.138 <=records sales! Profit (Sales minus all expenditures/taxes): 2008 - $3.557; 2009 - $0.895; 2010 - $2.700; 2011 - estimated $3.500 Dividends Declared: 2008 - $0.981; 2009 - $1.038; 2010 - $1.103; 2011- estimated $1.153 Source: 2010 Caterpillar Finances; Caterpillar Dividend History; Caterpillar 2011 4Q Results So getting back to the original question, if you worked at EMD's London plant and management came and told you to take a 50% pay cut or they're closing the plant, how would you feel about that if you knew the company had record sales of $60,138,000,000 and the dividends paid out to shareholders has consistently increased every year since 2003? Seriously, union or not, would you be open to taking a paying cut if you knew sales and profits are up from the previous year and before the recession? It's easy to tell someone else to work for less because you don't feel their pain. It's not painful to you because you're not the one who will either be 1) making 50% less for doing the same work, or 2) making nothing cause management closed the factory and moved elsewhere. And I'm not saying that pay cuts should never happen, all I'm saying is have a little have a little compassion. If Caterpillar was in a poor financial position, I would understand the need for pay cuts, but the company is doing fine, so what is the point of the drastic pay cuts?
Thomas 9011: I have worked for the brotherhood of locomotive engineers, the Teamsters, the boilermakers, and many other unions. I don't understand their logic and believe they are out of touch with reality. They refuse to budge on their pay scale even if it results in the entire plant closing down and everyone losing their jobs. I understand people don't want to take a pay cut even if it is 50%. But the alternative is no job, and no money. Maybe Unions will start to realize that times have changed, and if they are stubborn and greedy they will end up on the unemployment line with everyone else.
I have worked for the brotherhood of locomotive engineers, the Teamsters, the boilermakers, and many other unions. I don't understand their logic and believe they are out of touch with reality. They refuse to budge on their pay scale even if it results in the entire plant closing down and everyone losing their jobs.
I understand people don't want to take a pay cut even if it is 50%. But the alternative is no job, and no money. Maybe Unions will start to realize that times have changed, and if they are stubborn and greedy they will end up on the unemployment line with everyone else.
Thomas 9011,
I don't know and I don't care what you do, but ask yourself, if your boss came to you and said take a "10% pay cut or lose your job", how would you feel? You'd probably feel really shizzy with a "z" and angry. So you say 10% isn't so bad. I don't know how much you make but let's say it's $50,000. A 10% cut is $5,000 less, so now you make $45,000. Maybe you could live on that. Now let's pretend you work for Catapiller and you make $50,000 and are asked to take a 50% pay cut. You're being asked to work for only $25,000 per year. What if you had a mortgage and kids? Can you honestly really live on that and be happy that you still have a job with a 50% pay cut?! It's an insult. And by the way, yes unions have sometimes been unreasonable for asking for too much or not taking a cut which results in job losses. But seriously, put yourself in a position where your boss says take a pay cut or take a hike. It's not fun, it's insulting and it emasculates people, especially if the company is doing just fine.
Based on Caterpillar's financial statements, it looks like they're doing just fine. They're not in bankruptcy or close to it. I've highlighted some of their key financial indicators below (all $ in billions):
Sales: 2008 - $51.324; 2009 - $32.396; 2010 - $42.588; 2011 - $60.138 <=records sales!
Profit (Sales minus all expenditures/taxes): 2008 - $3.557; 2009 - $0.895; 2010 - $2.700; 2011 - estimated $3.500
Dividends Declared: 2008 - $0.981; 2009 - $1.038; 2010 - $1.103; 2011- estimated $1.153
Source: 2010 Caterpillar Finances; Caterpillar Dividend History; Caterpillar 2011 4Q Results
So getting back to the original question, if you worked at EMD's London plant and management came and told you to take a 50% pay cut or they're closing the plant, how would you feel about that if you knew the company had record sales of $60,138,000,000 and the dividends paid out to shareholders has consistently increased every year since 2003? Seriously, union or not, would you be open to taking a paying cut if you knew sales and profits are up from the previous year and before the recession?
It's easy to tell someone else to work for less because you don't feel their pain. It's not painful to you because you're not the one who will either be 1) making 50% less for doing the same work, or 2) making nothing cause management closed the factory and moved elsewhere. And I'm not saying that pay cuts should never happen, all I'm saying is have a little have a little compassion. If Caterpillar was in a poor financial position, I would understand the need for pay cuts, but the company is doing fine, so what is the point of the drastic pay cuts?
Plus, Indiana is a state where you're not required to be in a union to work in said field of work, so EMD is also being greedy since they can manipulate tings much easier there.
Just was browsing the Trains 70 Years DVD and came across a piece about La Grange ending locomotive construction.
Always thought moving everything to London was a mistake. The obvious distance issues seperating the workforce and various departments, not to mention the expensive transportion of large and heavy components like prime movers from Illinois to Canada. The various border and exchange issues. The limited capacity of London that meant their lead times between order and delivery were significantly longer than Erie even in soft years for EMD. The constant outsourcing of locomotives during times when the order books had anything more than a trickle on them just in order to try to satisfy demand for EMD locomotives that was a fraction of what Erie was delivering (There were times in the past 20 years when EMD locomotives were being outshopped for half a dozen different sites due to capacity issues at London). The distinterest from Canadian railways in EMD products that started to happen almost concurrently with the consolidation of locomotive construction to London. And so on...
Makes you wonder if they shouldn't of consolidated and upgraded things at La Grange which had far more capacity and killed off London 25 years ago. Would've sacrificed a slightly more modern plant in London, but I bet it would've been to their benefit in the end. Especially in light of the events over the past year or two.
jeffhergert I think there is a segment of our population that thinks that anyone who's job dosen't require a 4+ year college degree doesn't deserve a middle class level of compensation. It dosen't matter if the job is a basic assembly line worker or a more skilled trade, like welder, electrician, plumber, etc. I have seen that sentiment in comments made locally in the past when a couple of larger appliance plants in Iowa have been closed and the jobs moved.
I think there is a segment of our population that thinks that anyone who's job dosen't require a 4+ year college degree doesn't deserve a middle class level of compensation. It dosen't matter if the job is a basic assembly line worker or a more skilled trade, like welder, electrician, plumber, etc. I have seen that sentiment in comments made locally in the past when a couple of larger appliance plants in Iowa have been closed and the jobs moved.
I agree totally -- and today we see more and more people going to college, often picking up degrees of questionable value, just because they have bought this line. When the truth is that, when everybody has a college degree, some will still be flipping burgers and driving taxi, just like in the Philippines. Because society doesn't need their questionable "skills" -- whereas it could badly use an electrician or plumber.
I blame our giveaway trade and tax policies, not Caterpillar or the union, for the loss of well-paying jobs such as London's. (Yes, that was in Canada, but the same principle will be at work in Muncie.) If, through reform of both, we should be "protectionist" -- what of it? We are still wealthy enough, and a sufficient market unto ourselves, to afford a lot of "protection."
.....Another article in Muncie paper today.
WWW.thestarpress.com if interested.
Quentin
Thomas 9011 I have worked for the brotherhood of locomotive engineers, the Teamsters, the boilermakers, and many other unions. I don't understand their logic and believe they are out of touch with reality. They refuse to budge on their pay scale even if it results in the entire plant closing down and everyone losing their jobs. I understand people don't want to take a pay cut even if it is 50%. But the alternative is no job, and no money. Maybe Unions will start to realize that times have changed, and if they are stubborn and greedy they will end up on the unemployment line with everyone else.
Upper management and those who make most of their income from investments certainly have this attitude, but it seems to be growing in the general population too. It seems too many people who have been downsized in their own lives turn their anger towards those whose jobs still pay well, instead of the corporations that (fill in the blank) them and their communities over.
Jeff
The only fault I can see with the unions is that they haven't expanded globally like the large employers have. Had they done so it would be that much more difficult for the CATS of the world to avoid union feedback by simply moving the plants. I for one am glad the workers in London stood their ground. The word NO is a beautiful word. Most will find work elsewhere...contrary to what the media would like to have us believe, losing a job isn't like losing a limb. If you're good at your trade you will be working again soon, and not at Dunkin Donuts wages either. .
tatans Ulrich: I guess this plant closure marks a milestone...after some 150 years , it is the end of locomotive production in Canada... We had MLW which was sold to Bombardier, which subsequently got out of the locomotive business. And prior to that we had Baldwin/Lima/Fairbanks Morris in Kingston which closed in the 1960s. Not all bad news though, our economy continues to grow albeit slowly, and the many small business that start up every year never make the headlines but have been the greatest creator of jobs. MLW may not make locomotives in Canada any more but they are a viable loco builder in other parts of the world, not only do they build locomotives but entire transportation systems all over the world, seems Canadians never wanted to buy local made products, Ask calgary and Edmonton. Even New York bought a massive amount of trains.
Ulrich: I guess this plant closure marks a milestone...after some 150 years , it is the end of locomotive production in Canada... We had MLW which was sold to Bombardier, which subsequently got out of the locomotive business. And prior to that we had Baldwin/Lima/Fairbanks Morris in Kingston which closed in the 1960s. Not all bad news though, our economy continues to grow albeit slowly, and the many small business that start up every year never make the headlines but have been the greatest creator of jobs.
I guess this plant closure marks a milestone...after some 150 years , it is the end of locomotive production in Canada... We had MLW which was sold to Bombardier, which subsequently got out of the locomotive business. And prior to that we had Baldwin/Lima/Fairbanks Morris in Kingston which closed in the 1960s. Not all bad news though, our economy continues to grow albeit slowly, and the many small business that start up every year never make the headlines but have been the greatest creator of jobs.
MLW may not make locomotives in Canada any more but they are a viable loco builder in other parts of the world, not only do they build locomotives but entire transportation systems all over the world, seems Canadians never wanted to buy local made products, Ask calgary and Edmonton.
Even New York bought a massive amount of trains.
True...they build railway equipment..not sure if they still build locomotives anymore though..at least not locomotives as we know them. Maybe they still build them for the highspeed rail, I don't know. About the locally built, wasn't so long ago that every locomotive here was made here. Sd40-2s out of lLondon and their couterparts, M630 and the M636 out of Montreal.
From what I am being told the production is going to Indiana , La Grange IL, and Brazil .
.....As for Indiana being a "right to work State", I'd doubt that was a deciding factor to open a Progress Rail plant here. They did so over a year ago, and at that time RTW issue was not a factor yet in the Legislative body.
At least it certainly was not a "for sure" issue that was to become law.
It was just signed into law about a week ago by Gov. M. Daniels.
Ulrich I guess this plant closure marks a milestone...after some 150 years , it is the end of locomotive production in Canada... We had MLW which was sold to Bombardier, which subsequently got out of the locomotive business. And prior to that we had Baldwin/Lima/Fairbanks Morris in Kingston which closed in the 1960s. Not all bad news though, our economy continues to grow albeit slowly, and the many small business that start up every year never make the headlines but have been the greatest creator of jobs.
When corporations have access to any labour market at all it really does not matter whether you have labour unions or not...they will close and move elsewhere.
No job is safe anymore.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Leo_Ames Unions need to learn that things like strikes and contract refusals are only effective when they actually hold some semblance of bargaining power. That said, I don't think EMD had any intentions to keep London going. I think they wanted out and expected the course of events that transpired were going to happen. I think if they had accepted this contract, it would've just served to have delayed the inevitable. So in the long run, I imagine not much was lost by standing their ground, however weak their position was.
Unions need to learn that things like strikes and contract refusals are only effective when they actually hold some semblance of bargaining power. That said, I don't think EMD had any intentions to keep London going. I think they wanted out and expected the course of events that transpired were going to happen. I think if they had accepted this contract, it would've just served to have delayed the inevitable. So in the long run, I imagine not much was lost by standing their ground, however weak their position was.
Hi Leo,
I most definitely agree with you that London was going to close regardless. But what is the point of saying unions need to learn that strikes and contract refusals don't work without bargaining power when in this case learning and accepting management's demands would have resulted in London closing anyway, if not slightly delayed as you have said. As Mr. Thomas 9011 said: " Maybe Unions will start to realize that times have changed, and if they are stubborn and greedy they will end up on the unemployment line with everyone else." Again, even if unions did learn not to be stubborn and greedy, the result would have still be the same in this case. So how does London's closing show that greedy, stubborn, striking unions caused an entire plant to close down when in this case it was pretty much agreed upon that management was going to close down plant regardless of whether their unions caved into their demands or not? While such accusations may be true in some other cases, I don't believe that pointing out that unions needing to change their ways is a relevant argument in this case.
I don't see where compassion or the lack of it has anything to do with his post. He wasn't defending Caterpillar nor was he trivializing what these employees are going through or demonstrating a lack of caring. He was just stating the truth. That doesn't mean he isn't sympathetic. And despite what I'm about to state, my prayers do go out to those affected by this decision and I certainly don't condone what Caterpillar did.
But the cold hard reality of the matter was that it was clearly 50% or nothing. That has been obvious even to the readers at this forum for weeks now. Now they have nothing. I'm sure plenty of those jobs were greater than 50k and that many of those people would've choosen to stay on, even at 50% pay, at least for a while. Now they're at the unemployment line facing a lot less than 50%, part time jobs that are far less than 50% of what they were earning, and no job while they consider their options. And no EMD plant in London after over 60 years that might've been able to grow again in the future and regain some of what they'd of given away. I
Seems like a tall price to pay because the union was insulted. Unions need to learn that things like strikes and contract refusals are only effective when they actually hold some semblance of bargaining power. That said, I don't think EMD had any intentions to keep London going. I think they wanted out and expected the course of events that transpired were going to happen. I think if they had accepted this contract, it would've just served to have delayed the inevitable. So in the long run, I imagine not much was lost by standing their ground, however weak their position was.
jeffhergert zugmann: oltmannd: So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant.... Wouldn't it be more efficient to re-open their LaGrange shops in Illinois,cwhere they already build prime movers and do work on othe rlocomotives, or upgrade their Kentucky remanufacturing location for production of new locomotive? It semms a little silly to build on a new location when they could upgrade locations they have, not only because it could be cheaper (maybe not, though) but it would also keep their facilities close together, which is easy transport from facility to facility, They already have a location in San Luis Porto Si for maintnence of locomotives, so that's another possible upgrade to manufacturing! Maybe it would be a good idea to build a new location on the west coast or east coast since they do build many locomotives for overseas countries like China and Australia. For now. I'm sure in a few years, we'll be reading about their new plant in Mexico or China, or somewhere else. UP has some EMD engines that were assembled in Mexico. I think it was because of capacity issues up north at the time. I wouldn't be surprised at all for them to open a Mexican plant to handle the "overflow" from Muncie. Also to keep there US workforce in line. Jeff
zugmann: oltmannd: So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant.... Wouldn't it be more efficient to re-open their LaGrange shops in Illinois,cwhere they already build prime movers and do work on othe rlocomotives, or upgrade their Kentucky remanufacturing location for production of new locomotive? It semms a little silly to build on a new location when they could upgrade locations they have, not only because it could be cheaper (maybe not, though) but it would also keep their facilities close together, which is easy transport from facility to facility, They already have a location in San Luis Porto Si for maintnence of locomotives, so that's another possible upgrade to manufacturing! Maybe it would be a good idea to build a new location on the west coast or east coast since they do build many locomotives for overseas countries like China and Australia. For now. I'm sure in a few years, we'll be reading about their new plant in Mexico or China, or somewhere else.
oltmannd: So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant.... Wouldn't it be more efficient to re-open their LaGrange shops in Illinois,cwhere they already build prime movers and do work on othe rlocomotives, or upgrade their Kentucky remanufacturing location for production of new locomotive? It semms a little silly to build on a new location when they could upgrade locations they have, not only because it could be cheaper (maybe not, though) but it would also keep their facilities close together, which is easy transport from facility to facility, They already have a location in San Luis Porto Si for maintnence of locomotives, so that's another possible upgrade to manufacturing! Maybe it would be a good idea to build a new location on the west coast or east coast since they do build many locomotives for overseas countries like China and Australia.
So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant....
Wouldn't it be more efficient to re-open their LaGrange shops in Illinois,cwhere they already build prime movers and do work on othe rlocomotives, or upgrade their Kentucky remanufacturing location for production of new locomotive? It semms a little silly to build on a new location when they could upgrade locations they have, not only because it could be cheaper (maybe not, though) but it would also keep their facilities close together, which is easy transport from facility to facility, They already have a location in San Luis Porto Si for maintnence of locomotives, so that's another possible upgrade to manufacturing!
Maybe it would be a good idea to build a new location on the west coast or east coast since they do build many locomotives for overseas countries like China and Australia.
For now. I'm sure in a few years, we'll be reading about their new plant in Mexico or China, or somewhere else.
UP has some EMD engines that were assembled in Mexico. I think it was because of capacity issues up north at the time. I wouldn't be surprised at all for them to open a Mexican plant to handle the "overflow" from Muncie. Also to keep there US workforce in line.
zugmann oltmannd: So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant.... For now. I'm sure in a few years, we'll be reading about their new plant in Mexico or China, or somewhere else.
oltmannd: So, manufacturing will be in Indiana now? An easier trip between HQ and the plant....
YoHo1975Locomotive production is very unlikely to move to China, the cost of shipping would be too high. Same for South America. Mexico is possible.
Don't be so sure about that. Ever see the massive container cranes they use to unload ships at ports? Guess where those are built and shipped from.
zugmann YoHo1975: In short, Huge industrial equipment manufacturer doesn't move overseas or even south of the boarder nearly as readily as say an iPad. The odds that a thousand chinese workers will be assembling SD70ACes down the line is really quite unlikely. Doesn't GE have a locomotive plant in S. America already? And with China continuing to grow, there will be a huge demand for new locomotives there for some time to come. Bottom line: I wouldn't be surprised to see some SD90Aces (or whatever the new models will be) with "Made in China" printed on the bottom.
YoHo1975: In short, Huge industrial equipment manufacturer doesn't move overseas or even south of the boarder nearly as readily as say an iPad. The odds that a thousand chinese workers will be assembling SD70ACes down the line is really quite unlikely.
In short, Huge industrial equipment manufacturer doesn't move overseas or even south of the boarder nearly as readily as say an iPad. The odds that a thousand chinese workers will be assembling SD70ACes down the line is really quite unlikely.
Doesn't GE have a locomotive plant in S. America already? And with China continuing to grow, there will be a huge demand for new locomotives there for some time to come. Bottom line: I wouldn't be surprised to see some SD90Aces (or whatever the new models will be) with "Made in China" printed on the bottom.
'cept the Chinese will steal your technology and start selling their "own" locomotives here. They have started in New Zealand, and I believe they have at least one order in Australia. They tried but failed for now in Poland.
....Some more comments from Muncie.
For those who might be interested, our local paper www.thestarpress.com has another article about this subject today. I believe the article can be found at the above address.
Yes, the plant here is in place and P R has been in it now for a year plus.
This plant is large enough to build anything "railroad"....
YoHo1975 In short, Huge industrial equipment manufacturer doesn't move overseas or even south of the boarder nearly as readily as say an iPad. The odds that a thousand chinese workers will be assembling SD70ACes down the line is really quite unlikely.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Except that they just built the plant in Muncie, it's brand new and Caterpiller builds plenty of stuff in the states.
Locomotive production is very unlikely to move to China, the cost of shipping would be too high. Same for South America. Mexico is possible. And of course, Tatans clearly doesn't realize that EMD has sent parts to mexico to build units for years now and will likely continue to do so. In fact, Progress Rail has other facilities in the US that it could build units at as well.
C'mon, C'mon guys, moving the plant to Indiana? ? you better get a seat by the railroad tracks to wave to the train on it's way to Mexico. That was the talk in Ontario 2 years ago.
Ladies and gentlemen...there is another reson as to why their moving their jobs to Indiana
Indiana just became a work union-free state! You don't have to be in a union to work...
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