One wonders how it happened originally ... and how anyone could afford to buy the London product.
EMD moved to London in part because the GM UAW contract labor costs in La Grange put them at a big disadvantage with GE whose labor rates for Machinists and Electricians were much lower.
It didn't really do the job....GE took a big share of the locomotive market away from EMD, primarily for two reasons. One, GE got their act together and started building good locomotives. Two, COST!
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Also the Canadian dollar has strengthened considerably against the US greenback over the last three years, and that has made a big difference as well. London has been building locomotives since 1950. EMD in London built for the Canadian market primarily, while La Grange built locomotives for the US market.
GE has become much more competitive over the last 30 years. I read somewhere that they now build twice as many locomotives a year than they did back in 1980, with half the workforce. Understandably EMD needs to make changes in order to remain competitive. Is cutting wages by 50% in London the way to go about it? I don't think it is, but they run a global Fortune 100 company so they must know what they're doing. Plants can be moved around to take best advantage of low wages, tax incentives, and laxer environmental regulations... that's the reality of globalization.
Hewers of wood and sellers of tar sands Petro China just snapped up a big wad of Athabasca oil sands and just a matter of time till they have it all, what else is knew Canada? ? , Keep your eye on CP RAIL and see what's in store for the future.
Life is good over here, thanks for asking. Plants come..plants go. We adapt, survive and prosper.
edbenton There are 3 Union Plants here in my town a Federal Sgnal Plant that Makes the Vactor Vacucum Sewer Cleaners you see around Towns a Glass Plant and a Specialty Foundry for teh Nuclear Power Industry they make the Fuel Rod Holders for the US Navy. Guess Which Place pays the Highest the US Goverment Contractor. Vactor a Top of the line Welder with 25 Years tops out at 20 Bucks an Hour there the Glass Plant a Master Machinist is only at 25 an hour. A Master Plumber around here is lucky to get 30 an hour on his OWN. The CAW is demanding for those wages 36 an hour PLUS BENEFITS. That is 2X what the UAW workers get at CAT here in the USA Guess what IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN TIL HELL FREEZES OVER.
There are 3 Union Plants here in my town a Federal Sgnal Plant that Makes the Vactor Vacucum Sewer Cleaners you see around Towns a Glass Plant and a Specialty Foundry for teh Nuclear Power Industry they make the Fuel Rod Holders for the US Navy. Guess Which Place pays the Highest the US Goverment Contractor. Vactor a Top of the line Welder with 25 Years tops out at 20 Bucks an Hour there the Glass Plant a Master Machinist is only at 25 an hour. A Master Plumber around here is lucky to get 30 an hour on his OWN. The CAW is demanding for those wages 36 an hour PLUS BENEFITS. That is 2X what the UAW workers get at CAT here in the USA Guess what IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN TIL HELL FREEZES OVER.
Ed, you can't reasonably compare wages from one state to another, lest one country to another.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Zugman 35 Years ago Streator IL on ITS OWN Produced MORE GLASS CONTAINERS than any other Country in the WORLD. We at one time had 3 PLANTS that employeed over 3500 people in this town. Then the Locals in the Unions got this Idea they were IRREPLACABLE and kept Demanding Higher and Higher Wages and for a while the companies gave in.
Then the First plant Shut down in the Early 80's. Then in 84 Owens Closed down 2 of their 4 Furnaces and tore them down. Then in 1990 the BIG SHOE Dropped. Anchor CLOSED their Plant here for a CHEAPER NON-UNION plant in IN that had half the labor costs and 1/4 the BENEFIT COSTS. that cost us 450 Direct JOBS. When Owens shut down the 2 furnacs it was not that big of a hit they did it thru Retirements. The other plant they closed thru retirements and Relocated the Employees. in less than 12 years we went from over 3K people to less than 500 people Employed.
This town Never recovered from the loss of so many High Paying Jobs. The Main Street in spots looks like Ghetto Row there are multiple Compaines that have failed that Supplied the Factories with vending and other goods. Put it to you this way the Largest Employeer now is the Local HOSPITAL that tell you something. In fact Owens is down to less than 300 Employees now this year our NEW Wal-Mart EMPLOYS MORE PEOPLE than the LARGEST FACTORY on a SQUARE FOOTAGE BASIS in this town.
Thanks for the history lesson that I already knew.
Still doesn't change the fact that these companies are making record profits while they pay their employees dirt-poor wages. It's a race to the bottom.
But hey, we'll give these large companies tax breaks, while we give their employees public assistance. God bless America, eh? But hey, don't let me get in the way of your anti-union tirades. Everyone needs their own boogeyman, I guess.
So these companys are raking in all this money.Just is just how the system works.What business is that of yours?
cat992c So these companys are raking in all this money.Just is just how the system works.What business is that of yours?
That's fine as long as they aren't asking for taxpayer handouts.
But....
Nor do I like subsidizing their labor.
1
Look at how "they" -- business, politicians, et. al. -- have us sniping at each other and biting each other in the leg. A fool could have seen, 30 years ago, where this "free trade" was tending, to that well-remarked race to the bottom. Why did we sign up for it? That is the big question. Democrats conspired with Republicans.
My position always was: Our wealth would have bought us a lot of what they call "protection."
Anybody besides me wish we had done it?
The best protection is being good at your job and working for a company that values its employees by paying wages and offering benefits accordingly. There are plenty of those out there too. EMD's loss is going to be someone else's gain..skilled people are in short supply..
[quote user="samfp1943"]
This Thread is almost an historical read of how the interplay with Corporations and Unions play out. Posturing and Histrionics on both sides.
What edbenton related about CAT, and its Illinois Operations (sort of seems like the local political structure has its own death wish- (Tax til you drive out the Taxed, then try and back off- (?).
Wisconsin seems to be another adjunct to the power play between politics and labor, as well.
Here in the "Air Capitol" Boeing recently sealed an approximate 9 year term Contract with its Unions. Boeing has sold its manufacturing ops here to Spirit Aviation ( who also does work for other Aviation Corporations- read as Airbus Industries-). (Spirit has said they are moving some of their fabrication operations to Malaysia, From Tulsa)
There are rumors that Boeing is wanting out of this local Operation(Wichita). This has really stirred the local and State Politicians up as they have invested a lot of time, energy, and political capital in getting the new Air Force Tanker Contract landed for Kansas jobs. Now Boeing is wanting to build it in other plants(?)
Just sayin'. In a down economy there seems to be not only political brinksmanship playing but also the jobs seem to be being kept on strings like a yoyo. Keeping Society in a turmoil.
[/quote]
Here is a link to the whole story(s):
http://www.kake.com/aviation/headlines/Boeing_Calls_Meeting_For_All_Wichita_Employees_136605708.html
Well, Today: January 4,2012: Wichita was given the news that Boeing Corp was announcing that their Wichita Plant Operations would be Closed By the end of 2013.
The work on the new KC-46 Tanker aircraft would be shifted to the plants in Washington State. This was a real slap at the Kansas Congressional Delegation that has worked to land this work in the Wichita Plant. Not to mention the work that other elected officials( County & State ) have done to help land the work here in Wichita.
What has this got to do with a Railroad Forum, really not a whole lot, just that every 737, P-8A (Poisedon) rides out of Wichita's Spirit Air Systems Plant to Boeing on BNSF rails to their completion in Washington State?It was assumed that the new KC-46 fuselages would also, as well. It is left to wonder if Boeing leaves will Spirit Air Systems move to follow Boeing as well?
The Labor Contract was settled in 2011 for workers in the Boeing Operations in Wichita with an agreement that was of 9 years duration. Boeing has made many promises locally to State and Local Politicians and seems to be welching on labor and citizenry as well.
Here is part of a statement from the above linked article, which seems to be part CYA and smooze for the media:
FTA: "...The decision to close our Wichita facility was difficult but ultimately was based on a thorough study of the current and future market environment and our ability to remain competitive while meeting our customers' needs with the best and most affordable solutions," said Mark Bass, vice president and general manager for BDS' Maintenance, Modifications & Upgrades division. "We recognize how this will affect the lives of the highly skilled men and women who work here, so we will do everything possible to assist our employees, their families and our community through this difficult transition." At an afternoon news conference in Wichita, Bass said the Wichita facility was no longer cost effective. Bass said leaving the tanker work in Wichita would make it unaffordable for customers. Bass said 1100 to 1400 jobs will move to San Antonio and Oklahoma City. He said there will be some relocations and transfers, and some employees will be hired from the local markets. Bass told reporters Boeing remains committed to Kansas.." A seeming major portion of this seems to involve the issue of Right to Work States ( you can't help but notice the mention of moves to Oklahoma and Texas, as well. And this link: http://www.nrtw.org/en/blog/news-release-boeing-employees-hit-machinist-12282011
FTA: "...The decision to close our Wichita facility was difficult but ultimately was based on a thorough study of the current and future market environment and our ability to remain competitive while meeting our customers' needs with the best and most affordable solutions," said Mark Bass, vice president and general manager for BDS' Maintenance, Modifications & Upgrades division. "We recognize how this will affect the lives of the highly skilled men and women who work here, so we will do everything possible to assist our employees, their families and our community through this difficult transition."
At an afternoon news conference in Wichita, Bass said the Wichita facility was no longer cost effective. Bass said leaving the tanker work in Wichita would make it unaffordable for customers.
Bass said 1100 to 1400 jobs will move to San Antonio and Oklahoma City. He said there will be some relocations and transfers, and some employees will be hired from the local markets.
Bass told reporters Boeing remains committed to Kansas.."
A seeming major portion of this seems to involve the issue of Right to Work States ( you can't help but notice the mention of moves to Oklahoma and Texas, as well.
And this link: http://www.nrtw.org/en/blog/news-release-boeing-employees-hit-machinist-12282011
Illuminates some of the background shenanigans between Govt Officials and Union Managers(?)
I know it is a little off The Reservation, but illuminates how politics and unions and management interact.
And in the world of BIG business this is a surprise? Although I had always figured Boeing to be a upstanding corporate citizen - guess I was wrong.
samfp1943 The Labor Contract was settled in 2011 for workers in the Boeing Operations in Wichita with an agreement that was of 9 years duration. Boeing has made many promises locally to State and Local Politicians and seems to be welching on labor and citizenry as well.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
But the Tanker work is being moved back to Washington right? Is that not what the article says?
Boeing's plants in Washington are Union shops too. And maybe you didn't know this, but more than a few people in the Seattle area would be offended by the notion that the "Air Capital" is anywhere else. They still grumble about Boeing moving corporate HQ to Chicago.
Those same people would tell you that Kansas Stole their jobs in the first place and so tough. They would argue that the jobs always belonged in Washington. Are they wrong?
One could make the same claim with regards to EMD. Most of those locomotives are destined for the US, is it not appropriate that the jobs move back to the US? The only insult here is the wages and CAT's tradition of strongarming Unions.
A Bloomberg news story I just read says Boeing has built planes in Wichita since 1929, so it doesn't sound like this was work "stolen" from Washington State.
Listen, you can take your facts and ruin my point, or you can just go with the flow.
Seriously though, OK, they aren't jobs moved away from Seattle, the point still remains that they're moving the construction of those planes to a different union shop which certainly is a different scenario than the EMD one.
Actually, it was Stearman, one of the several forerunners of Boeing that was in Wichita. The jet airliners began in Washington in 1957.
Wichita has a long history of aircraft companies including Cessna, Lear, Mooney, Beechcraft, etc. It is a logical place to find subcontractors for any aviation company.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Just to clarify, Petro China already owned a majority stake in the operation they just bought the remaining interest in. Calling it a big wad is a bit misleading. They bought the remaining 40% of a project...a small project at that.....that hasn't even begun construction yet.
The majority of oilsands ownership is still Canadian, and will likely be for some time. Declaring it only a matter of time until the Chinese have it all, is, at best, laughable.
Well, hyperbole and inaccuracy abound when discussing China. People love to vent on how we're in hawk to China with all our debt when in reality, the vast majority of US debt is held by US citizens. China doesn't really hold that much.
But as last of the big red menace, they have to be an outsized player.
The London Free Press is reporting:
Last October, Progress Rail had an open house at its Muncie plant, to herald its opening, with a locomotive on display. Only that locomotive was made in London and shipped to Muncie.
"The majority of the work was done here -- they just put finishing touches on it there. I know they have had a hard time keeping people. You will not get a decent welders for the wages they are paying," said CAW head Tim Carrie.
Is this true? Has the Muncie operation not produced even one locomotive? This is what is being reported by the London paper.
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Rockinon The London Free Press is reporting: Last October, Progress Rail had an open house at its Muncie plant, to herald its opening, with a locomotive on display. Only that locomotive was made in London and shipped to Muncie. "The majority of the work was done here -- they just put finishing touches on it there. I know they have had a hard time keeping people. You will not get a decent welders for the wages they are paying," said CAW head Tim Carrie. Is this true? Has the Muncie operation not produced even one locomotive? This is what is being reported by the London paper.
Unless you left it off, your quotes are clearly talking about the locomotive they had on display during their open house to celebrate the opening of the plant. Those quotes don't say anything about them not having produced any locomotives since then (They clearly couldn't have a Muncie built SD70Ace to show off at a celebration to mark the opening of the plant).
The paper reported,"They [Progress Rail Muncie plant] are behind schedule and there are some questions whether it will happen at all."
The paper, using The Economist as a source, also tells its readers, "Fewer than a quarter of the promised jobs [at the Muncie plant] have materialized, and not a single engine has rolled off the production line."
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/01/18/19263386.html
I have no doubt that the London plant is in danger of being closed. It is going to be a tough battle. Progress Rail has produced locomotives in Mexico with EMD name and is developing a plant in Brazil. Is it possible that if the jobs leave London, they may not go to Muncie but to Mexico and maybe Brazil?
EMD London employees can comiserate with the Wichita Boeing employees
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57361398/jilted-by-boeing-wichita-workers-feel-duped/
Muncie is not the first place to be backlogged.Has anyone noticed that GE is building a new plant in Dallas area?
Pure unregulated capitalism in action.
Phoebe Vet Pure unregulated capitalism in action.
Union-busting at its best/worst.
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