This thread is tending to go downhill and .
Anymore valuable contributions? Going, going, gone!
Don't worry..be happy..
tatans Yikes: this is beginning to sound like inane sports announcers with all their foresight and hindsight into the complexities of a forthcoming game or a a game past, by simply expounding on the outcome, c'mon, what will happen will happen, it's already history as to this outcome.
Yikes: this is beginning to sound like inane sports announcers with all their foresight and hindsight into the complexities of a forthcoming game or a a game past, by simply expounding on the outcome, c'mon, what will happen will happen, it's already history as to this outcome.
Relax...just funin..
creepycrank Now your getting silly. The real problem is work rules and if EMD gets its way they would only need about 150 workers now 400 plus they have now for the same output.
Now your getting silly. The real problem is work rules and if EMD gets its way they would only need about 150 workers now 400 plus they have now for the same output.
That doesn't sound right. If that we're in fact the case they would let the excess go instead of cutting everyone's wages in half...no? Yes, I was being silly, but now you're being silly too.
creepycrank Now your getting silly.
Now your getting silly.
I agree.
Folks, lets ease up on the political throttle a bit before someone crosses the line on forum policies...
-- Darren (Trains.com Moderator)
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
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Maybe we could cut doctors' pay to $16/hr ...imagine the savings to the taxpayer. Many doctors say they go into the biz for the love of people..lets see how much they love people when their pay is brought down to earth..
Maybe there is a point in doing what you love to do rather than what we are seeing now. I know food industry workers who love their job, even though they may not get as much as some do...
The issue that we are seeing up here is that it is not just the jobs at the locomotive plant but the 1,200 or so jobs from various parts suppliers/manufacturers here as well...of course one could go into healthcare related fields..as there seems to be a need there...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Don't worry; I'm sure there is a town in Mexico where the people would be thrilled to have $12 an hour jobs. After all, they don't have any of those evil unions.
Let's pass a few more tax cuts for the investor class. I'm sure that will help.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I hope Muncie does well...the people there deserve decent wages just as they do here. Over the long term these wage reductions will result in a worsening labor shortage as no one is going to take the time and money to learn a trade when a job as a fry cook in a diner pays just as much. Who would invest years in learning a trade when the end result is a job that pays only 12 to 18 an hour?
....More comments in our local paper again today. Recent meetings with officials, some bargining group people and city officials, and some other business people.
Main point of the story here in Muncie, is not to try to put one city against another...'nor one labor group against any other either.
They seem to be really trying to stay out of the labor dispute in Canada and not put our city against any other.
Of course Muncie officials {city}, certainly welcome any business that comes our way as appreciated. We have been a manufacturing town...{mostly automotive parts suppliers}, and have lost thousands of jobs in past decades.....Including the one I spent 37 years at.
Muncie is struggling to get back into prosperity like many other places are.
Quentin
A slap in the face indeed... skilled labor at a fry cook's wage...
Modelcar It's being reported Progress Rail will have a "Jobs Fair" next week here in Muncie. A bit of info indicates: $12.00 to $18.50 wages....bennefits include 401k....insurance incl. dental....generous vac. time.....Various holidays, etc.... Local officials here in Muncie {city officials}, understand there is an ongoing issue between the employer and bargaining group up in Canada, and they continue to express they do not want to sway or interfere with that issue up in Canada. Of course everyone here would be glad for all the employment the Muncie plant will produce now and going forward.
It's being reported Progress Rail will have a "Jobs Fair" next week here in Muncie.
A bit of info indicates: $12.00 to $18.50 wages....bennefits include 401k....insurance incl. dental....generous vac. time.....Various holidays, etc....
Local officials here in Muncie {city officials}, understand there is an ongoing issue between the employer and bargaining group up in Canada, and they continue to express they do not want to sway or interfere with that issue up in Canada.
Of course everyone here would be glad for all the employment the Muncie plant will produce now and going forward.
Wow. What a slap in the face to Americans. $12.00? You can make more at a McDonalds in North Dakota.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
I was just thinking in relation to the announced BNSF SD70ACe-P4 order that maybe EMD/CAT has slashed prices in order to get this order. I mean BNSF hasn't ordered an EMD for use outside of coal since before they were merged. Something must have encouraged this change and I suspect it is cost. Maybe EMD/CAT is trying to cut their prices and to do that they need to slash costs.
Doesn't make me sympathize with CAT and their negotiating techniques, but I would be far more comfortable with that then if it were purely to improve the margins per loco.
Yes, a recently unemployed Canadian is going to be able to easily get a work visa to work in US Facilities. Sorry, that simply doesn't seem likely at all. Especially given the current US mood for hiring local.
Also, Ed, are you suggesting that the people making $30/hr+ for EMD are simply Welders? Because everything I've heard as that those pay rates are for skilled labor, not simple welders.
As for why they can block the train. I believe this is a quirk of Canadian law. I feel like a very similar thing occurred with a first nations strike a few years ago.
Maybe some of the displaced former employees will start a new - or join an existing - locomotive manufacturing, rebuild, or repair shop, or similar railroad vehicle assembly operation. After all, not too far away is GE Erie, Brookville Locomotive, NS' "Thoroughbred Mechanical Services" Juniata Back Shop in Altoona, CAF assembling Amtrak's 130 single-level cars in Elmira, NY, and Larry's Truck Electric in Ohio (see the current issue of Trains), or even EMD in Muncie, Indiana . . .
- Paul North.
...or...some will move or start their own businesses. Crappy jobs and huge pay cuts act as a stimulus to people who have some initiative. Anger and frustration are great motivators. Some will not roll over and take the $16.50 an hour offer. For now they are fighting for their jobs.. There may be some short term losses however over the longterm we wil thrive from the lessons learned.
Well, I think there are going to be a lot of unemployed people up here...or working at $10.35 an hour...which, by the way, is our provinces minimum wage now.
The thing of it is is that there are not a lot of people who really know how to live within their means..especially when it goes from $34 an hour to $17 an hour...your talking about going from, say, $60,000 per year to $32,000 per year awful darn quick. The issue here that I have is that these same people are going to see none of that..they are going to see UI instead. I'd rather see them working than to see our unemployment rate go even higher than it is. As it is...450 extra unemployed there is going to equate to an extra 1200 jobs out as well, as the parts suppliers will be out as well.
Then, factor in the profit that CAT has registered and all that hoohaw over the CEOs take home package...and ...well....
Oh well, more unemployed people coming right up....
Cat is getting ready to Hire at a few plants near me if they stay in IL how knows with what IL is doing with Taxes after the next Contract is up. What do they Start new UNION workers at around 17 Bucks an HR for New Workers and these are the Welders. Federal Signal Corp starts out Welders at 18 an hour 5 houses down from MY HOUSE. That is 3rd Shift so there is a 1 Buck an hour Shift Diff BTW both Places are UNION. Do the Math 17 bucks an hour with only 10% over time a year and FSC offers that and MORE is 39 Grand a Year and their Insurance there is only 100 a MONTH FOR A FAMILY. My Wife and I get by on LESS than that a year. Plus Both CAT and FSC offer PENSIONS and all the other Retirement plans WTF is the CAW Problem I know they are not owned by GM and so the REALITY OF THE REAL WORLD IS BITING THEM IN THE BUTT FOR THE FIRST TIME.
As a general rule, I am a supporter of unions however, that track is the property of either CAT or the railroad. Either way they are trespassing. I don't understand why they are being allowed to hold that locomotive without the permission of the owner.
By the way..what is interesting is that the train..in this case, an Ontario Southland train was taking a semi-assembled locomotive to a painting facility near Tillsonburg ON....
The locomotive was one of the last to be assembled at the Electro-Motive plant and was moved just prior to the Jan. 1 lockout so it could be delivered to a customer in Brazil. Scott said the locomotive has been tracked by the union and most recently was at a testing facility in Stratford. The locomotive was en route to a facility near Tillsonburg to be painted before it's delivered
Scott said the locomotive has been tracked by the union and most recently was at a testing facility in Stratford. The locomotive was en route to a facility near Tillsonburg to be painted before it's delivered
From...http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/01/25/19291636.html
CAW Members Block Caterpillar Train in Ingersoll
http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1644535
Things seem to have warmed up a little..
True, but you could easily automate an unmanned train.
Driverless cars and trucks are in our future, but I suspect it is a quite distant future.
Then again, in the 1950s few people believed we would be on the moon in 1969.
I doubt that will happen for one reason. Can you imagine what would happen if the Interent crashed while a driver was trying to go over Donner in a Blizzard and and he wiped out a bussload of Schoolkids. I would NOT want to be the Company that came up with that IDEA.
To Ed Benton: This is one of the things I like about driving, It is kind of hard to outsource. Of course I can just see it someday, A scalemaster orders the driver into the scalehouse and has to wait for him/her to fly in from India. (Remotely Operated Vehicle!!)
Thx IGN
Rockinon There were, and are, some serious holes in our understanding of how successful capitalism works. I honestly believe that successful capitalism delivers more than money to those at the top and to the stockholders.
There were, and are, some serious holes in our understanding of how successful capitalism works. I honestly believe that successful capitalism delivers more than money to those at the top and to the stockholders.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The big problem with unions is that they have not been able to keep up with the times. Big business has been able to adjust to globalization...companies like CAT have become adept at skipping around the world to take advantage of the best opportunities. The unions, on the other hand, have not adjusted to globalization. Thus even the largest unions have only a regional (not global) representation, and companies can then threaten to move their plants to get around the unions. The unions need to become more global in their outlook...its tough, but that is theeir only hope in longterm success.
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