FYI:
There are 500 TSA agents at the Charlotte airport alone. That fact was in this morning's paper in an article about 4 of them being fired because they missed rummaging through some checked bags.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/17/2856055/tsa-fires-4-charlotte-agents.html
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Food for thought:
In September 2001 more people died on US highways than died at the WTC.
The panic stricken response is WAY out of proportion to the actual threat.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin, 1755, to the Pennsylvania State Legislature Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin, 1755, to the Pennsylvania State Legislature
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783
PNWRMNM That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
Maybe not their liberty, but how about their lives?
Alton Junction
PNWRMNM Rich, You are a prime example of how totalitarian regimes take over, bit by bit. You, who I will guess are not over 40 years old, probably do not remember the days when you could freely walk onto an air liner. I do and I remember the first hijacking, D. B. Cooper, in the Pacific Northwest. Frankly, I would feel better if the entire flight crew were packing .45's with hard plastic anti personnel rounds and I could carry on board with those same rounds. That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty. Unfortunately governments always want to restrict and control the population. By the way what "real and demonstrated" terrorist threat to railroads have I missed? Mac
Rich,
You are a prime example of how totalitarian regimes take over, bit by bit. You, who I will guess are not over 40 years old, probably do not remember the days when you could freely walk onto an air liner. I do and I remember the first hijacking, D. B. Cooper, in the Pacific Northwest.
Frankly, I would feel better if the entire flight crew were packing .45's with hard plastic anti personnel rounds and I could carry on board with those same rounds. That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
Unfortunately governments always want to restrict and control the population.
By the way what "real and demonstrated" terrorist threat to railroads have I missed?
Mac
LOL
Late 60's, Mac, if you must know. And a political science major and lawyer, to boot.
Your comment about me being a "prime example" is so laughable that I won't take the bait nor will I be offended.
Neither one of us is old enough to recall WWII when our government found it necessary to take certain precautionary steps to protect its citizentry. If we all thought like you, we would still be wearing coon skin caps and carrying a musket to hunt for our dinner.
Rich
PNWRMNM For once I agree with Phoebe Vet.
For once I agree with Phoebe Vet.
LOL That is a cause for concern.
Mac,
I appreciate your comments, and we can't let this discussion digress too much without getting the thread locked.
I do agree with you that strip searching grandmothers in wheel chairs is quite ridiculous.
On the other hand, if we did nothing after 9/11, who knows how much more dangerous air travel would be and how many more terrorist incidents would have occurred.
The terrorist threat to railroads is real and demonstrated to date. None of us like restrictions or infringements on our personal liberties, but terrorism is real. I, for one, have no objection to limits such as our right to photograph trains. I do not, for one second, believe that this is a step toward descent into totalitarianism.
There is of course a trade off of liberty and personal security. The problem is two fold. First we have lost lots of liberty. Second is for that loss we have got much more the illusion of safety than real safety. Do you really think that making airport screeners Federal Employees increased security at airports? If we cared about security we would openly and proudly profile and pay a lot more attentiion to young Arab Men than to Grandmas in wheel chairs. There was a time you could just walk onto an airplane without having to allow for an hour of secutity theater. We lost a lot of liberty in that one.
Now we have a whole Department of these knuckleheads running around trying to justify their jobs, which we are paying for. The result is the kind of claptrap described.
For once I agree with Phoebe Vet. We are becoming a nation of chicken littles who accept loss of freedom for the illusion of security. Shame on us!
Mac McCulloch
Ahhh, so politically, you are a Libertarian?
If they made me the Director of Homeland Security I would dismantle it.
Well, then, let's just hope that you are never the Director of Homeland Security.
No.
It is idiotic to consider it suspicious to photograph something that is in plain sight.
I am not defending someones right to trespass. That is an entirely different matter.
I don't see any difference between a person photographing a train in plain sight and a railroad photographing a person with a camera or binoculars on public property.
Phoebe Vet The country continues to sink into the swamp of paranoia. We live in a country where we suspect people of being criminals if they take pictures of things that you can see from a public street. Our national obsession with "security" is becoming a mental illness.
The country continues to sink into the swamp of paranoia. We live in a country where we suspect people of being criminals if they take pictures of things that you can see from a public street. Our national obsession with "security" is becoming a mental illness.
C'mon, Dave, isn't there some trade off between personal liberty and group security?
Is it really such an imposition to accept some limits on one's ability to photograph or film trains due to the demonstrated security risks which we are all exposed to?
Well now, isn't that quaint...the "example" of "surveliance" activity they use in this video shows a railfan with binoculars and camera(s) watching Metra train activity in Hill Yard in my home town of Aurora, IL. The Aurora police are going to be busy questioning such "suspcious" folks as there are typically numerous railfans in and around Aurora's BNSF tracks and yards...especially on weekends...exercising their railfan hobby, and that includes ME! If I see an increase in folks watching us watch trains I'll be sure to report it here. Stand by.
Surprised this doesn't seem to have been posted. One of the highlighted "suspicious activities" shows a railfan with camera and binoculars standing on public bridge. But if you look carefully there appears to be three trespassers wandering along the tracks in the distance (about 2:40 in the video). But of course as usual they are completely ignored....... Security theatre,as we have come to know and despise.
http://ready.illinois.gov/ittf/publications/homeland_security.wmv
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