Surprised this doesn't seem to have been posted. One of the highlighted "suspicious activities" shows a railfan with camera and binoculars standing on public bridge. But if you look carefully there appears to be three trespassers wandering along the tracks in the distance (about 2:40 in the video). But of course as usual they are completely ignored....... Security theatre,as we have come to know and despise.
http://ready.illinois.gov/ittf/publications/homeland_security.wmv
Well now, isn't that quaint...the "example" of "surveliance" activity they use in this video shows a railfan with binoculars and camera(s) watching Metra train activity in Hill Yard in my home town of Aurora, IL. The Aurora police are going to be busy questioning such "suspcious" folks as there are typically numerous railfans in and around Aurora's BNSF tracks and yards...especially on weekends...exercising their railfan hobby, and that includes ME! If I see an increase in folks watching us watch trains I'll be sure to report it here. Stand by.
The country continues to sink into the swamp of paranoia. We live in a country where we suspect people of being criminals if they take pictures of things that you can see from a public street. Our national obsession with "security" is becoming a mental illness.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Phoebe Vet The country continues to sink into the swamp of paranoia. We live in a country where we suspect people of being criminals if they take pictures of things that you can see from a public street. Our national obsession with "security" is becoming a mental illness.
C'mon, Dave, isn't there some trade off between personal liberty and group security?
Is it really such an imposition to accept some limits on one's ability to photograph or film trains due to the demonstrated security risks which we are all exposed to?
Rich
Alton Junction
No.
It is idiotic to consider it suspicious to photograph something that is in plain sight.
I am not defending someones right to trespass. That is an entirely different matter.
I don't see any difference between a person photographing a train in plain sight and a railroad photographing a person with a camera or binoculars on public property.
Well, then, let's just hope that you are never the Director of Homeland Security.
If they made me the Director of Homeland Security I would dismantle it.
Ahhh, so politically, you are a Libertarian?
Rich,
There is of course a trade off of liberty and personal security. The problem is two fold. First we have lost lots of liberty. Second is for that loss we have got much more the illusion of safety than real safety. Do you really think that making airport screeners Federal Employees increased security at airports? If we cared about security we would openly and proudly profile and pay a lot more attentiion to young Arab Men than to Grandmas in wheel chairs. There was a time you could just walk onto an airplane without having to allow for an hour of secutity theater. We lost a lot of liberty in that one.
Now we have a whole Department of these knuckleheads running around trying to justify their jobs, which we are paying for. The result is the kind of claptrap described.
For once I agree with Phoebe Vet. We are becoming a nation of chicken littles who accept loss of freedom for the illusion of security. Shame on us!
Mac McCulloch
Mac,
I appreciate your comments, and we can't let this discussion digress too much without getting the thread locked.
I do agree with you that strip searching grandmothers in wheel chairs is quite ridiculous.
On the other hand, if we did nothing after 9/11, who knows how much more dangerous air travel would be and how many more terrorist incidents would have occurred.
The terrorist threat to railroads is real and demonstrated to date. None of us like restrictions or infringements on our personal liberties, but terrorism is real. I, for one, have no objection to limits such as our right to photograph trains. I do not, for one second, believe that this is a step toward descent into totalitarianism.
PNWRMNM For once I agree with Phoebe Vet.
For once I agree with Phoebe Vet.
LOL That is a cause for concern.
You are a prime example of how totalitarian regimes take over, bit by bit. You, who I will guess are not over 40 years old, probably do not remember the days when you could freely walk onto an air liner. I do and I remember the first hijacking, D. B. Cooper, in the Pacific Northwest.
Frankly, I would feel better if the entire flight crew were packing .45's with hard plastic anti personnel rounds and I could carry on board with those same rounds. That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
Unfortunately governments always want to restrict and control the population.
By the way what "real and demonstrated" terrorist threat to railroads have I missed?
Mac
PNWRMNM Rich, You are a prime example of how totalitarian regimes take over, bit by bit. You, who I will guess are not over 40 years old, probably do not remember the days when you could freely walk onto an air liner. I do and I remember the first hijacking, D. B. Cooper, in the Pacific Northwest. Frankly, I would feel better if the entire flight crew were packing .45's with hard plastic anti personnel rounds and I could carry on board with those same rounds. That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty. Unfortunately governments always want to restrict and control the population. By the way what "real and demonstrated" terrorist threat to railroads have I missed? Mac
LOL
Late 60's, Mac, if you must know. And a political science major and lawyer, to boot.
Your comment about me being a "prime example" is so laughable that I won't take the bait nor will I be offended.
Neither one of us is old enough to recall WWII when our government found it necessary to take certain precautionary steps to protect its citizentry. If we all thought like you, we would still be wearing coon skin caps and carrying a musket to hunt for our dinner.
PNWRMNM That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
That would be at least as effective as what we are doing now, would cost less than 1% of what we are spending for those morons at TSA, and would cost no one their liberty.
Maybe not their liberty, but how about their lives?
Food for thought:
In September 2001 more people died on US highways than died at the WTC.
The panic stricken response is WAY out of proportion to the actual threat.
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin, 1755, to the Pennsylvania State Legislature Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783
They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Ben Franklin, 1755, to the Pennsylvania State Legislature
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt, 1783
FYI:
There are 500 TSA agents at the Charlotte airport alone. That fact was in this morning's paper in an article about 4 of them being fired because they missed rummaging through some checked bags.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/12/17/2856055/tsa-fires-4-charlotte-agents.html
Just to clarify, I am not against REASONABLE security.
At Union Station in DC, uniformed police officers, some of them with bomb sniffing dogs, patrol the station. They do not confront people unless they, or the dogs, see something suspicious. The only ID procedure is that you hold up your picture ID and your ticket as you walk through the door to the platform.
THAT is reasonable security.
Treating everyone like a criminal in case there might be a criminal somewhere is bizarre, paranoid, and against everything the USA has stood for since it was founded.
Terrorism on the railroads is a real threat. Ah London...
Everybody complains of civil liberties being taken, until something happens. Then after a railraod gets bombed, everyone will complain why didnt' they have securty. What the hell was our guys doing. That we pay them to protect us.
What, so a security guard says hey no pictures. So what, go someplace else to take pics. There are plenty of other spots for railfans to take photos.
I agree, we are a paranoid nation, but look what got us here. They came to our country and took thousands of lives.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
I am still waiting for that real and demonstrated threat to railroad security.
richhotrain Neither one of us is old enough to recall WWII when our government found it necessary to take certain precautionary steps to protect its citizentry.
Neither one of us is old enough to recall WWII when our government found it necessary to take certain precautionary steps to protect its citizentry.
Are you referring to when the government rounded up American citizens of Japanese descent and held them in camps? That was another example of paranoid over reaction. There are people in this country right now who would do the same thing to American born Muslims if they thought they could get away with it.
Phoebe Vet Just to clarify, I am not against REASONABLE security. At Union Station in DC, uniformed police officers, some of them with bomb sniffing dogs, patrol the station. They do not confront people unless they, or the dogs, see something suspicious. The only ID procedure is that you hold up your picture ID and your ticket as you walk through the door to the platform.
Hmmm, I wonder what Ben Franklin and William Pitt would think about that?
PNWRMNM I am still waiting for that real and demonstrated threat to railroad security. Mac
This study was presented by the highly respected Rand Corporation prior to the Madrid and Chechen terrorist train bombings. The threat to rail security has only increased since then.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/testimonies/2005/RAND_CT224.pdf
Motley Everybody complains of civil liberties being taken, until something happens. Then after a railraod gets bombed, everyone will complain why didnt' they have securty. What the hell was our guys doing. That we pay them to protect us.
Frightened people always assume that people who are not frightened just don't understand.
I am a retired police officer from NY. My beliefs on civil liberties did not change after 9/11. I do not blame the government for the crimes committed on 9/11. If a violent crime is committed against a railroad I will not blame a lack of security, I will blame the criminals who did it.
Your assumption is in error. It is just an attempt to project YOUR fear on others.
Phoebe Vet Motley: Everybody complains of civil liberties being taken, until something happens. Then after a railraod gets bombed, everyone will complain why didnt' they have securty. What the hell was our guys doing. That we pay them to protect us. Frightened people always assume that people who are not frightened just don't understand. I am a retired police officer from NY. My beliefs on civil liberties did not change after 9/11. I do not blame the government for the crimes committed on 9/11. If a violent crime is committed against a railroad I will not blame a lack of security, I will blame the criminals who did it. Your assumption is in error. It is just an attempt to project YOUR fear on others.
Motley: Everybody complains of civil liberties being taken, until something happens. Then after a railraod gets bombed, everyone will complain why didnt' they have securty. What the hell was our guys doing. That we pay them to protect us.
LOL People don't kill. Guns do.
It's not about blame, PV, it is about prevention.
Phoebe Vet Treating everyone like a criminal in case there might be a criminal somewhere is bizarre, paranoid, and against everything the USA has stood for since it was founded.
And yet accept it we did, all in the name of .....what, exactly? Safety? Security? Yeah, right. If you believe that, I have some property to sell you at a great price. Just because that moron Gates ran his locomotives in front of that Amtrak train, employees everywhere have had to subject themselves to such testing without due cause. Of course, technically the tests aren't mandatory; it's only mandatory if you want to keep your job. When, exactly, did it become acceptable for a company to dictate to its employees what they could or could not do in their own free time?
But now it's far too late to do anything about it; Big Brother has won, and there is nothing anybody can do about it anymore. I'm glad I am as old as I am, for what lies ahead of us is not pleasant to contemplate. Dystopia is not a place I care to call home.
The young people today are lucky in one way: they have never lived without so much of their lives being monitored; thus they cannot miss what they never had.
And those that truly NEED to be drug tested and the 535 men and women that cast votes in Congress.
zardoz But now it's far too late to do anything about it; Big Brother has won, and there is nothing anybody can do about it anymore. I'm glad I am as old as I am, for what lies ahead of us is not pleasant to contemplate. Dystopia is not a place I care to call home. The young people today are lucky in one way: they have never lived without so much of their lives being monitored; thus they cannot miss what they never had.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Motley Terrorism on the railroads is a real threat.
Terrorism on the railroads is a real threat.
But its really not though. Terrorists go for the big kill, not some po dunk local switching the industrys. I always laugh when the CN guys harass me. Im like dude, I hope the terrorists try to bomb the Missabe as opposed to other places. You know what you get when you blow up taconite pellets? More taconite pellets!
I will say that all the security at Amtrak is stupid and nieve. Its like the saying that no one steals anything in their own vehicle, they steal it in the company truck. If someone is going to vandalize a train, I can garuntee it wont happen at the station or on the train. Duh.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
coborn35 But its really not though. Terrorists go for the big kill, not some po dunk local switching the industrys.
But its really not though. Terrorists go for the big kill, not some po dunk local switching the industrys.
I know of some locals that haul some nasty stuff. Plus they go to industries filled with even more. Lot of whacked-out people out there, unfortunately.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
So, here's the question: If you think that more security is better, would you be fine with being detained for taking photos of trains if you answered a question wrong?
Would you feel good about being arrested on suspicion of terrorism for taking photos near an oil refinery, and having to prove your innocence?
Would you be fine with anyone who is missing fingers, having more than 3 days worth of food, or owning a gun being candidates for suspicion of terrorism, and being held indefinitely without trial?
Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296
Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.