It is situations like this that has made me put away my camera since 9/11. I don't need an arrest record over a SD-whatever rolling into the sunset.
anb740 [snipped] And Paul, I thought lawyers could argue a case in a state he/she wasn't licensed in so long as the judge agreed/approved it? Or does each state do it differently? Just curious....
- Paul North.
travelingengineerI suppose that it might have helped if this young man had, and showed, one of the brand-new Amtrak "Partners for Amtrak Safety and Security Membership Card."
All of the info is correct. Just a question: If you are handcuffed and brought to Headquarters, and interrogated. is that considered arrested?
FWIW, I listened to the first 30 seconds of the encounter. One thing that nobody has brought up is that the cop says to the kid that "...they got a report of someone kneeling on the tracks with a device...." (my emphasis). I don't know about you, but if I saw a teenager kneeling on the tracks with a device I did not recognize, I would most certainly call the cops.
The teenagers on the forum might not like to hear this, but in my 20 years of running trains, EVERY incident of vandalism I had to deal with was done BY TEENAGERS.
What chaps my 'donkey' is when some cop hassles someone who is obviously doing nothing but taking pictures. If a person is standing on a train platform, or is positioned 100' from the tracks, with his camera on a tripod, in the middle of the day, in plain sight, even someone with a police mentality should be able to figure out what is going on.
schlimm Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing. If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident.
Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing.
If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqO0yaqSVYY&NR=1 That was hard to find...
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
Too much here to be taken for granted. Lots of details left hanging from just the description of the teen and his travails.
Not sure about NY Law, but in many jurisdictions, around the Country, the sworn police officer is considered to be an officer of the court, as such the officer's word carries much more weight before the court than the Defendant. [The assumption made is that the Officer of the Court would not lie under oath.] Apparently, in the case of the Teenager and the 4 PD's; the previous assumption of honesty has been made questionable.
In my twenty plus years in the OTR Industry, I have dealt with, and been dealt with by more different kinds of cops than I can count. Tickets, You Betcha! Too many. but as a corporate Safety Officer, I have met and worked with some really sharp individual officers. As with every other profession you have individuals who do their jobs well and those that don't. You just have to be glad to have known the Good Officers, and be thankful it will be a long time before you cross back over the not so good ones.
Paul_D_North_Jr And now would-be thieves and burglars in that upscale suburb know just how to ensure they won't be interrupted while engaged in their nefarious misdeeds: Have an accomplice call in a report of a "teen-age kid with a cell phone kneeling by the tracks", and then wait for all the Barney Fifes to rush to the scene, leaving the rest of the town wholly unguarded . . . . - Paul North.
And now would-be thieves and burglars in that upscale suburb know just how to ensure they won't be interrupted while engaged in their nefarious misdeeds: Have an accomplice call in a report of a "teen-age kid with a cell phone kneeling by the tracks", and then wait for all the Barney Fifes to rush to the scene, leaving the rest of the town wholly unguarded . . . .
I was thinking the exact same thing! It's sad really. As a RR employee friend of mine put it, they can't stop hoodlums from constantly breaking into containers and boxcars or tagging a car with paint inside a rail yard, but by darn they can harass the heck out of a railfan with a camera! (or in this case, a phone)
And it's true, we haven't heard both sides yet. I would really love to be a fly on the wall in the courtroom when this all goes down.
And Paul, I thought lawyers could argue a case in a state he/she wasn't licensed in so long as the judge agreed/approved it? Or does each state do it differently? Just curious....
Joe H. (Milepost S256.0; NS Griffin District)
Pictures: http://anb740.rrpicturearchives.net
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/anb740
anb740 [snipped] . . . yet no eyewitness has come forward. The pictures he superimposed onto the video depict exactly where he was at (on the side of a public road) when it all went down. Since it appears he was on public property, he can legally kneel down all he wants!
Schlimm has a good point above - we've only seen and heard one side, the kid's, and that could be faked for all we know - what's "The rest of the story" from the officer's side ? The kid could have been dressed in Arab-type robes with a turban or kaddifeh (sp ?) headdress, be 6 ft. 5 in. tall and 300 lbs, with a long dark beard, etc. - but I kind of doubt it . . . If the kid's story is at all true, the real villain is the person who called in the false report of the kid kneeling by the tracks - and maybe nobody bothered to get a name or confirm that person's ID - so the person the cop really ought to be after is unavailable - and now maybe making the cop look like the sucker he is - and that's what's really got the cop angry - and perhaps that's why he's giving the kid such a hard time - displaced anger ???
The newspapers aren't going to report every incident they hear on the police scanner. If they did, they would have to write a literal book every day! I got robbed/kidnapped at gunpoint in 2003 and none of the news outlets in the area uttered a single word about it.
And he wasn't grabbing any videos of trains at the time. He was simply trying to get a recording of a locomotive horn to use as a ringtone. (read the comments below the video to find out more information)
As for the cop who said he saw the kid "kneeling next to the track"....that cop was the fourth? one on the scene and the kid was already being interrogated by then! He later tried to cover that up by saying that an "eyewitness" reported seeing him doing this, yet no eyewitness has come forward. The pictures he superimposed onto the video depict exactly where he was at (on the side of a public road) when it all went down. Since it appears he was on public property, he can legally kneel down all he wants!
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Not taking sides....I think there was a recent case in Maryland, where a motorcyclist cell phone videoed his stop for some traffic infraction and then posted it on YouTube....The state then charged him for 'unauthorized recording of a police action' or some other such charge. Police in that incident were just as 'over the top' as the appear to sound in this incident. While I have all the respect in the world for police and the job they do...some of them get more impressed with their 'power' and totally lose sight of their job and responsibilities; over time those that lose focus are generally forced to find other employment.
schlimm On both sides seems like a tempest in a teapot. Just playing devil's advocate for a moment, a few questions come to mind. Why assume the police were lying about the kid kneeling on the tracks? And doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that he was allowed to continue to record the audio if he were being arrested? Since all we see is a marked-up picture with nobody present and the audio, what evidence is there that this is even real? Most nice people learn pretty early to not argue if stopped by the cops, even if you think they are in the wrong. I'm no fan of police abuse, but this isn't in the same league. It would be interesting to hear what some of our law enforcement posters think.
On both sides seems like a tempest in a teapot. Just playing devil's advocate for a moment, a few questions come to mind. Why assume the police were lying about the kid kneeling on the tracks? And doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that he was allowed to continue to record the audio if he were being arrested? Since all we see is a marked-up picture with nobody present and the audio, what evidence is there that this is even real? Most nice people learn pretty early to not argue if stopped by the cops, even if you think they are in the wrong. I'm no fan of police abuse, but this isn't in the same league. It would be interesting to hear what some of our law enforcement posters think.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Wow, you mean this kid was so "dangerous" that it required representatives from FOUR different police departments?!!! Amazing. It's stuff like that this makes me wish that I had heeded a friend of mine's advice to go to law school. (With him being a retired judge and the dean of 2 different schools, I probably could've gotten in with his recommendations!)
Someone I know went through a similar incident with the Atlanta PD for photographing trains and "looking suspicious." He was arrested and his vehicle/cameras impounded. When it went to court, not only was the case thrown out, the judge instructed the arrogant officer in question that if he EVER pulled another stunt like this again, he was going to have HIM (the officer) arrested.
Wow would I love to be a fly on the wall for the court proceedings.
Dan
Some more details from the description at the video:
Metro North RR's Harlem Line, North White Plains, NY - Virginia Ave. X-ing ?
The 4 police depts. were Greenburgh (the most aggressive), North Castle, Westchester Co., and MTA RR police. The aggressive officer repeats a couple times that his call was that the kid was kneeling on the tracks, which the kid denies - says he knows all the railroad rules, and volunteers at a museum.
I'm not sure that I'd say he was "arrested", though it's clear that he was "detained". He posts: "I was issued a summons for "Unlawfully entering and remaining on RR property"." This apparently happened Mon. 2 weeks ago, 6 / 6 / 2011 - posted 6 / 19/ 2011 - he says he has a hearing ("court case") on July 12th.
Kid's name appears to be Gregory Grice. Since he's only 16, he's a juvenile, so special rules and procedures will likely apply.
Might not be too hard of a charge to beat, if he wasn't on or too close to the tracks when the police arrived - but if the police didn't actually see him there, then who else is going to provide the necessary testimony that he was ? Then the next question to the officers ought to be, "Where are the RR R-O-W lines are, and how do you know that - beyond a reasonable doubt ?" If they don't have a surveyor or a good plat handy to put essential fact into evidence, that ambiguousness - as can be seen in the still photos - will be fatal to the case, IMHO.
Must be a totally crime-free area if 4 police depts. have nothing better to do on a Monday afternoon than harass a 16-year old kid with a cell phone camera. I wonder if the aggressive officer feels real brave, macho, and good now about bullying a 16-year old kid to the point of crying at the end of the video ("Can you call my Mom ?") and refusing his request to call a lawyer. Wonder how many cops were involved altogether - is that a sensible use of supposedly scarce resources for the protection of the nation ? Also seems like the line was shut down for a while because of this incident ! Can you spell "O-V-E-R - R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N" ? Is there no one with common sense and good judgment / "street smarts" in these kinds of encounters ? Someone once wrote that "A liberal is a conservative who's been through the arrest process !" Well, I've just listened to some pretty good evidence of 1 cop "who'd not be missed" if he was fired for "abuse of discretion" and "conduct unbecoming" here . . . (Too bad my lawyer license is good in Pennsylvania only, not NY . . . ).
Apologies if this has already been posted; I couldn't find anything when running a search.
I've met a few arrogant jerks who call themselves police officers in my own lifetime, but these guys are in a league all their own! (and I've also known a few super nice ones who stop by just to shoot the breeze for an hour and wave when they see me) At least 4 officers/police departments on the scene to arrest a 16-year-old railfan. Wow! Unfortunately for the officer(s) who later lied about what happened, the entire scene was recorded on the kid's camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yihlIlyFNME
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