"As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way?"
-This is why I mentioned this line. There is a difference from not going the full speed limit (or over as most do) vs. going way too slow. Most of our pacings will be a bit below the limits, not rediculously slow. People who want to go that slow usually find a safe place to do so, where traffic coming up behind them can easily see them and react appropriately. Many railfans will even try to stay along the sides or further assist people in getting safely around them if they're going that slow.
In any state, anyone can be pulled over and warned or ticketed for going too slow, if it's so slow as to create a hazard, but most of the time that won't apply here given that this situation is often avoided by various means.
The limit is an upper limit. Another xection of NY's Vehicle and Traffic Law provides authority to ticket and punish for "speed unsafe for conditions" which could (and has) been used to ticket folks going dangerously slow for no good reason as well.
8 n' Sand
kolechovski " holding up traffic to "pace" -You know, those speed limits are just limits! It is NOT a mandate of how fast you must go. As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way? Sure, the speeders will get ticked off at you, but only for a few moments before they illegally pass you over the yellow lines.
" holding up traffic to "pace"
-You know, those speed limits are just limits! It is NOT a mandate of how fast you must go. As long as you are not going obcenely slow to cause an obvious hazard, how can pacing be bad in any way? Sure, the speeders will get ticked off at you, but only for a few moments before they illegally pass you over the yellow lines.
Many roads do have minimums as well. But even if driving way below the speed limit is not illegal, it is moronic. And that shows the cop what the "hobby is about". (no regard for anything else but a perfect photograph or video).
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
BaltACD All CSX field personnel are schooled in CSX's '3 R' program. Recognize - Record - Report. Employees seeing something, anything that strikes them as being other than the ordinary are to record the details of the occurrence and report it to CSX's Police Command Center. There is a 15 minute training video devoted to the program that is a part of the yearly Operating Rules class for all operating personnel - Officers - M of W personnel - Train & Engine Service personnel - all personnel who's duties take them out on the property. We are still in the aftermath of 9/11/2001 and the 'evil doer's' have announced that transportation facilities and equipment are among their desired targets. While a railfan my view himself as innocuous ... a rail employee may view the same individual as suspicious. Paranoia - maybe, however, it is better to err on the side of investigating the situation.
All CSX field personnel are schooled in CSX's '3 R' program. Recognize - Record - Report.
Employees seeing something, anything that strikes them as being other than the ordinary are to record the details of the occurrence and report it to CSX's Police Command Center.
There is a 15 minute training video devoted to the program that is a part of the yearly Operating Rules class for all operating personnel - Officers - M of W personnel - Train & Engine Service personnel - all personnel who's duties take them out on the property. We are still in the aftermath of 9/11/2001 and the 'evil doer's' have announced that transportation facilities and equipment are among their desired targets. While a railfan my view himself as innocuous ... a rail employee may view the same individual as suspicious.
Paranoia - maybe, however, it is better to err on the side of investigating the situation.
Yeah, but issuing someone a warning for trespassing when they were never on CSX property?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
And I'll say this:
There are some (a minority, I'm sure) railfans that are trespassers and thieves. Many cops do not really understand the railfanning hobby, and it probably doesn't help when the only time they see many railfans is when something special is on the tracks, and every moronic railfan is out acting like a nutcase (trespassing on various private properties, holding up traffic to "pace", speeding like madmen to get in position for another photo, etc...)
Taranwanderer After reading this entire thread, here are my observations: -The kid was probably not doing anything harmful or illegal, except possibly stepping on the ROW, which we'll never know for sure without some significant video evidence. All we have is the (multiple) cops' word. -The police, while they were acting in the public interest, could have handled the situation better. Much better. Personally, I think many cops are kids that were picked on when they were little and now have a "power trip" complex as adults. Not all of them. But a significant portion of them (25%, as someone posted earlier?) They just seem to like "getting back" at all those people that abused them when they were younger. This doesn't lessen the respect I have for the job that they do, but it's a fact. I'm a law-abiding, concealed-carry permit holding citizen, and when I'm asked by cops for ID, (and I provide both my drivers license and my CC permit,) I usually get hassled. -Take pics from an overpass, not next to the tracks. Get over it.
After reading this entire thread, here are my observations:
-The kid was probably not doing anything harmful or illegal, except possibly stepping on the ROW, which we'll never know for sure without some significant video evidence. All we have is the (multiple) cops' word.
-The police, while they were acting in the public interest, could have handled the situation better. Much better. Personally, I think many cops are kids that were picked on when they were little and now have a "power trip" complex as adults. Not all of them. But a significant portion of them (25%, as someone posted earlier?) They just seem to like "getting back" at all those people that abused them when they were younger. This doesn't lessen the respect I have for the job that they do, but it's a fact. I'm a law-abiding, concealed-carry permit holding citizen, and when I'm asked by cops for ID, (and I provide both my drivers license and my CC permit,) I usually get hassled.
-Take pics from an overpass, not next to the tracks. Get over it.
Doing that can get you in trouble:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJarO8zesQc
The kicker is it was a CSX COP .
I'll say it: There's some cops out there who fully deserve to be called pigs. They abuse their power (one of the reasons many don't like to be recorded). I myself have never been stopped for railfanning (IDK maybe railfanning freight lines out in the country has advantages). One guy I know has been harassed before, including a deputy who said you had to be 200' from the tracks.
Personally I do call BS in the actions theose cops took. I think the only way to solve this problem is a massive letter writing, protesting, informal meeting campaign.
Here I got some work for the cops:
7 Shot in Chicago Overnight
I suggest they take care of that before spending time going after trespassers and even taggers.
I've long been a proponent of cops focusing on "real" crime - stuff that actually causes quantifiable damage instead of harmless stuff like harassing rail fans for trespassing. I know someone is going to disagree with me here but the fact is we only have limited police resources so why waste them for stuff like say, pulling someone over for rolling a stop when there is real, destructive crime around? Just go to the south side of Chicago for a night and see what goes on there - that's where police should be focusing their resources.
BaltACD They are faster than a rolling doughnut! jimnorton: When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested? We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.
They are faster than a rolling doughnut!
jimnorton: When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested? We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.
When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested? We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.
This. And the fact they are slick
jimnorton When are we ever going to hear about trespassing graffiti vandals being detained or arrested? We hear about railfans but never anything about these vandals which have defaced 80% of the nation's boxcars.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
Recent Summary of newly enacted New York State RR Trespassing Laws:
The bill includes several changes to the state’s current statutes applicable to railroad trespassing:Section 1: Personal Trespass on Railroad Property: Section 140.10 of the Penal Law is amended to prohibit trespassing by individuals on foot on all railroad property statewide. Previously, this section only applied to railroad property located in New York City, Long Island and Monroe County. The penalty for violation this section is a Class B Misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum three months jail and a $500 fine.Section 2: Trespassing on Railroad Property While Riding a Motor Vehicle, Recreational Vehicle or Horse or Other Animal: Section 83-A of the Railroad Law is amended to prohibit individuals from trespassing on railroad property while riding on any motor vehicle (inc. motorcycles), recreational vehicle (inc. all-terrain vehicles) and any horse or other animal. Previously, this law only applied to persons riding on snowmobiles (a separate section prohibits the riding of animals on railroad property, but only imposed a $10 fine plus damages). The penalty for violating this section is increased from a $100 fine per offense to a $100-$250 fine for a first offense and a $250-$500 fine for each subsequent offense.Previous versions of the bill included language to prohibit defacing and tampering with RR property, including tampering offenses that result in a disruption of service. After negotiations, it was determined that these offenses are already covered under Article 145 of the Penal Law as follows:
In addition, previous versions also contained language that would prohibit tampering activities that result in the serious injury or death of another person. Again, it was determined that these offenses are already covered by the Penal Law as follows:
I figured they would just follow the tracks left by the train that is in front of them.
My Dad said you could always tell when a train had been in the area... because you could see its tracks.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Murphy Siding zugmann: This is why you only railfan on foggy days. But....but.... if it's too foggy to see the trains, how does the engineer know where to drive?
zugmann: This is why you only railfan on foggy days.
This is why you only railfan on foggy days.
But....but.... if it's too foggy to see the trains, how does the engineer know where to drive?
Follow the goats. They know.
He follows the waves of other crewmembers.
Dan
zugmann This is why you only railfan on foggy days.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding Slow day, so we had to try and pick open an old scab?
Slow day, so we had to try and pick open an old scab?
Pick Pick! It's bleeding now! All I have to say is you'd have a slightly different opinion of the cops if you've ever been unduly harassed by an overzealous cop - about 75% of them in my opinion are fine but about 25% have a complex of some sort - like the genius who took away my pepper spray because we should rely on the police for protection. Yeah if I'm in trouble I'd rather a cop be there but if someone is coming at me and there is no cop there I'd much rather have a weapon with me so at least I could defend myself! But not according to this cop!
All of this nonsense allegedly occurred two months ago. And what occurred on this thread? A blind acceptance of the validity of this story and a knee-jerk condemnation of the police. ["O-V-E-R - R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N"] There was never any report by the kid or his supporters or the local media of the final disposition of the incident or outcome.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
zardoz Sawtooth500: zardoz: zugmann: .....sitting in the bushes isn't suspicious at all...? Sounds like a Trainmaster-In-Training to me. Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up? First, you have to go to college for 4 years so you can learn absolutely nothing about railroading; then if you do get the job, your duties will entail telling 30-year veterans how to pull the throttle....
Sawtooth500: zardoz: zugmann: .....sitting in the bushes isn't suspicious at all...? Sounds like a Trainmaster-In-Training to me. Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up?
zardoz: zugmann: .....sitting in the bushes isn't suspicious at all...? Sounds like a Trainmaster-In-Training to me.
zugmann:
.....sitting in the bushes isn't suspicious at all...?
Sounds like a Trainmaster-In-Training to me.
Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right?
So where do I sign up?
First, you have to go to college for 4 years so you can learn absolutely nothing about railroading; then if you do get the job, your duties will entail telling 30-year veterans how to pull the throttle....
Shhhh dont hate on me too much...
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
zugmann Sawtooth500: Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up? Yeah, because cab rides DON'T get boring after the 4th one...
Sawtooth500: Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up?
Yeah, because cab rides DON'T get boring after the 4th one...
Hey they are exciting when your current cab ride count is at zero...
Sawtooth500 Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up?
YES! Where can I sign on the dotted line?
Sawtooth500 zardoz: zugmann: .....sitting in the bushes isn't suspicious at all...? Sounds like a Trainmaster-In-Training to me. Trainmasters can go for a cab ride whenever they want, right? So where do I sign up?
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