Ibflattop Sure there are some bad cops out there but there are some of those types in every profession!
Sure there are some bad cops out there but there are some of those types in every profession!
FYI: Didn't NY ACLU get a consent decree from MTA over some incidents on NYCTA & LIRR. I remember a few years back it being on one of the forums. And Don Phillips was talking about it as well. Rgds IGN
A word to the wise, whether inocent or guilty, if you are ever detained by the Police, never ever let the Police coerce you into any type of conversation without an attorney present as they can and will use anything you say against you. All you legally have to do is provide proof of who you are.
Remember this "post" about the teen who made a big deal about the police bothering him while he was at a road crossing watching/shooting Metro North trains? Supposedly he had a court appearance on July 12. Wonder what happened, if anything?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
oh the internet, where anyone can be excitable about anything.
Hey, With all of the crazy crap thats going on in the world today, a cop thats going by a person that is supposingly kneeling by the tracks with a cell phone. He was just acting on his instincts to stop and see what was going on. If he seen the Kid with a camera around his neck he proabably wouldnt think twice about stopping. Get off the backs of the cops! they are just protecting the citizens of this Great Country! Sure there are some bad cops out there but there are some of those types in every profession! I dont care what you guys say! The kid was just being questioned and that was it. Kevin
yad sdrawkcab s'ti
When you say someone is “kneeling down next to the tracks with a device,” it sounds like they are two feet from the rail and preparing to attach a bomb to it.
But kneeling down next to the tracks could be tying a shoe thirty feel from the tracks. It is hard to believe that the location indicated would amount to trespass on the railroad. Are pedestrians walking alongside of a road trespassing when they cross a railroad?
Jack -
With all due respect, anyone can sue someone over almost anything. That said, I haven't seen anything in the video or still photos that show the suspect being subjected to police use of force. Being restrained by handcuffs for officer safety is standard procedure. Having a discussion, no matter how overbearing does not constitute actionable negligence, nor is it a civil rights violation. As a case against the cops, unless there is a LOT more evidence that something happened and there was actionable conduct and real damages, this is a LOSER. There are at least four police witnesses from different agencies to refute the allegations and we are talking about Westchester County, a conservative and police friendly jurisdiction. Very unlikely that a jury would have much sympathy for the plaintiff. It is very different from NYC and the results will reflect that...
I wouldn't want to be the attorney for either side in such a suit, as the judge will likely be upset with both for wasting the court's time.
8 n' Sand
Mr. Railman It seems like these officers are really desperate. They might not have seen any action in a while and this is what they needed.
It seems like these officers are really desperate. They might not have seen any action in a while and this is what they needed.
Yeah, somehow I doubt that.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Murphy Siding You have the right to remain silent...........' might not be a bad idea.
You have the right to remain silent...........' might not be a bad idea.
Would have been a MUCH better idea a couple of days ago. Posting too much info and photos could cause a significant legal issue and tie your attorney's hands in plea negotiations or at trial. A trial on a violation such as this will be a bench trial before a judge only. No juries unless you commit a crime. Crimes are misdemeanors and felonies.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
harlemlinedispatch Since there are people that believe this is fake, I will post a copy of my summons. I have no idea why the news didn't show up, but the road that crosses the tracks was closed to all traffic, thus preventing them to enter. As for the info about the laws and ROW that I saw posted, If this is true (which it most likely is) then why didn't the plenty of police that have confronted me before, let me continue photographing? And this would also mean that the President of MTA Customer service, gave me misleading information saying that it was perfectly ok to be there.
Since there are people that believe this is fake, I will post a copy of my summons. I have no idea why the news didn't show up, but the road that crosses the tracks was closed to all traffic, thus preventing them to enter.
As for the info about the laws and ROW that I saw posted, If this is true (which it most likely is) then why didn't the plenty of police that have confronted me before, let me continue photographing? And this would also mean that the President of MTA Customer service, gave me misleading information saying that it was perfectly ok to be there.
Seriously dude, you need to get off of railfan forums and only talk with your lawyer.
harlemlinedispatch schlimm: As I said before, this kid's story may well be for real, maybe not. He may be the victim of police abuse, maybe not. But what amazes me is the rush to total acceptance of this story with very little factual evidence, seemingly b/c he is a railfan. And some folks on this thread who ordinarily are very supportive of the police and the sanctity of rail RofW's seem to have a different standard in this case. If he was arrested, should he not have some documentation for that from the police department, etc.? And given the recent publicity of the threat to rail security, it seems a bit surprising that someone arrested on the basis of suspicious behavior along a busy passenger rail RofW didn't make the local news. Since there are people that believe this is fake, I will post a copy of my summons. I have no idea why the news didn't show up, but the road that crosses the tracks was closed to all traffic, thus preventing them to enter. As for the info about the laws and ROW that I saw posted, If this is true (which it most likely is) then why didn't the plenty of police that have confronted me before, let me continue photographing? And this would also mean that the President of MTA Customer service, gave me misleading information saying that it was perfectly ok to be there.
schlimm: As I said before, this kid's story may well be for real, maybe not. He may be the victim of police abuse, maybe not. But what amazes me is the rush to total acceptance of this story with very little factual evidence, seemingly b/c he is a railfan. And some folks on this thread who ordinarily are very supportive of the police and the sanctity of rail RofW's seem to have a different standard in this case. If he was arrested, should he not have some documentation for that from the police department, etc.? And given the recent publicity of the threat to rail security, it seems a bit surprising that someone arrested on the basis of suspicious behavior along a busy passenger rail RofW didn't make the local news.
As I said before, this kid's story may well be for real, maybe not. He may be the victim of police abuse, maybe not. But what amazes me is the rush to total acceptance of this story with very little factual evidence, seemingly b/c he is a railfan. And some folks on this thread who ordinarily are very supportive of the police and the sanctity of rail RofW's seem to have a different standard in this case. If he was arrested, should he not have some documentation for that from the police department, etc.? And given the recent publicity of the threat to rail security, it seems a bit surprising that someone arrested on the basis of suspicious behavior along a busy passenger rail RofW didn't make the local news.
Simply put, the police have discretion to arrest or not or to issue an appearance ticket or not. Or simply give you a warning. This time you were apparently the subject of a civilian complaint so the officers decided to exercise their discretion in favor of being safe and arresting you. You still got a break as you could have ended up in jail. Instead you got a ticket...
8NSand
schlimm As I said before, this kid's story may well be for real, maybe not. He may be the victim of police abuse, maybe not. But what amazes me is the rush to total acceptance of this story with very little factual evidence, seemingly b/c he is a railfan. And some folks on this thread who ordinarily are very supportive of the police and the sanctity of rail RofW's seem to have a different standard in this case. If he was arrested, should he not have some documentation for that from the police department, etc.? And given the recent publicity of the threat to rail security, it seems a bit surprising that someone arrested on the basis of suspicious behavior along a busy passenger rail RofW didn't make the local news.
Paul -
I won't waste too much time as it appears we both have little just now.
With respect to the question of allocation of resources, that is a question for the police agencies. In this circumstance I would expect a minimum of two local officers to respond. The first would be the beat car for the location and the second a backup unit. In this case we also had a county police car and a railroad (MTA) police car respond. As it is a railroad incident, response by MTA police is mandatory. The county car probably came along as additional backup given that a person with a "device" on the tracks was reported. Frankly, I'm surprised that there weren't additional cars that responded. I would have expected at least one supervisor as well.
After 9-11 New York tends to treat anything with even a hint of Homeland Securtiy as serious. The nature of the dispatch makes it likely to get a larger response. Probably most of the units cleared pretty fast once they realized it was a teen taking train photos and the device was a camera.
I'd be happy to continue the conversation...
Paul_D_North_Jr 8NSand - Your other points are noted and well-taken, but for the next couple of days my spare time is exceedingly limited. For the moment I'll just note that I too view R-O-W trespassing, teen 'punks', and burglars using the R-O-W as serious problems to be dealt with - but those last 2 don't seem to be involved here. More to the point, the word 'public' in "public road" means something, and at a skewed-angle crossing such as this one, I see a good possibility that's where he actually was. I also see you know the other half of that saying . . . With respect, I have no desire to practice in NYS - state lines also mean something besides pretty colors on a map ! (Your observations about Pennsylvania jurisprudence are valid, too - "Preliminary Objections" ?!?) But my prime concern is the apparent misuse and waste of manpower here. Say what you will, sound judgment and discretion appears to have been lacking in several aspects, such as the number of personnel and the seeming lack of interest in getting to the real facts, as opposed to badgering the suspect into a confession - didn't even appear to be the usual "good cop - bad cop" routine going on here. Let me put it to you this way: If you were the ADA in charge of this case, would you assign and approve of 4 of your professional staff working this little case simultaneously ? (If so, maybe that's why you're so busy . . . ) Perhaps we can continue this exchange of views at a later time, esp. after we have more facts. - Paul North.
8NSand - Your other points are noted and well-taken, but for the next couple of days my spare time is exceedingly limited. For the moment I'll just note that I too view R-O-W trespassing, teen 'punks', and burglars using the R-O-W as serious problems to be dealt with - but those last 2 don't seem to be involved here. More to the point, the word 'public' in "public road" means something, and at a skewed-angle crossing such as this one, I see a good possibility that's where he actually was. I also see you know the other half of that saying . . . With respect, I have no desire to practice in NYS - state lines also mean something besides pretty colors on a map ! (Your observations about Pennsylvania jurisprudence are valid, too - "Preliminary Objections" ?!?)
But my prime concern is the apparent misuse and waste of manpower here. Say what you will, sound judgment and discretion appears to have been lacking in several aspects, such as the number of personnel and the seeming lack of interest in getting to the real facts, as opposed to badgering the suspect into a confession - didn't even appear to be the usual "good cop - bad cop" routine going on here. Let me put it to you this way: If you were the ADA in charge of this case, would you assign and approve of 4 of your professional staff working this little case simultaneously ? (If so, maybe that's why you're so busy . . . )
Perhaps we can continue this exchange of views at a later time, esp. after we have more facts.
- Paul North.
I can understand why four officers showed up. Keep in mind "railfan" is not a word that is in most people's vocabulary, police included. The call most likely went out as a suspicious person kneeling on the tracks with an unknown object. Leaving out railfan, that leaves three possibilities: Someone sabotaging the tracks, someone stealing or vandalizing property, or someone committing suicide. Any of which would make an officer greatly appreciate backup. Also, keep in mind that officers don't always know exactly where other officers are. Some of the officers may have thought they were closer than the other officers and responded. If I heard the call and I was reasonably close I would have responded too.
A very valuable and interesting discussion. Thanks for everyone who posted.
+1
There's multiple sides to every story, and so far, we are hearing only one.
Perhaps the reason the kid did not have video of the incident was he was afraid the phone would be confiscated. I have an iphone 4 and can set it on voice recording only. The kid could have done this and had the phone in a shirt pocket out of sight but voice recording everything.
8NSand - Thanks much for your astute, detailed, and informed comments about New York laws and criminal defense practice there, etc., about which I have only the most rudimentary knowledge. I willingly yield and concede to your clearly superior knowledge, experience, and insights on those matters.
I'm familiar with the Val Maps and their use as evidence, exactly as you say. But in older areas the property/ R-O-W line and road R-O-W shapes at the crossings can be very convoluted. Without a "mark-out" or stakeout of the actual points on the ground at that site by a competent and licensed surveyor, no one really knows where those lines are with regard to the physical features. And the public R-O-W is a "magic" line here - 1" on one side and he's guilty; 1" on the other side and he's in the clear. If he was on the shoulder of the road by the concrete "Jersey" barrier as seems probable from the setting - think anyone recorded exactly where he was when the officers first arrived on the scene ? And with regard to any kind of R-O-W marker ?
Paul_D_North_Jr Some more details from the description at the video: Metro North RR's Harlem Line, North White Plains, NY - Virginia Ave. X-ing ? The 4 police depts. were Greenburgh (the most aggressive), North Castle, Westchester Co., and MTA RR police. The aggressive officer repeats a couple times that his call was that the kid was kneeling on the tracks, which the kid denies - says he knows all the railroad rules, and volunteers at a museum. I'm not sure that I'd say he was "arrested", though it's clear that he was "detained". He posts: "I was issued a summons for "Unlawfully entering and remaining on RR property"." This apparently happened Mon. 2 weeks ago, 6 / 6 / 2011 - posted 6 / 19/ 2011 - he says he has a hearing ("court case") on July 12th. Kid's name appears to be Gregory Grice. Since he's only 16, he's a juvenile, so special rules and procedures will likely apply. Might not be too hard of a charge to beat, if he wasn't on or too close to the tracks when the police arrived - but if the police didn't actually see him there, then who else is going to provide the necessary testimony that he was ? Then the next question to the officers ought to be, "Where are the RR R-O-W lines are, and how do you know that - beyond a reasonable doubt ?" If they don't have a surveyor or a good plat handy to put essential fact into evidence, that ambiguousness - as can be seen in the still photos - will be fatal to the case, IMHO. Must be a totally crime-free area if 4 police depts. have nothing better to do on a Monday afternoon than harass a 16-year old kid with a cell phone camera. I wonder if the aggressive officer feels real brave, macho, and good now about bullying a 16-year old kid to the point of crying at the end of the video ("Can you call my Mom ?") and refusing his request to call a lawyer. Wonder how many cops were involved altogether - is that a sensible use of supposedly scarce resources for the protection of the nation ? Also seems like the line was shut down for a while because of this incident ! Can you spell "O-V-E-R - R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N" ? Is there no one with common sense and good judgment / "street smarts" in these kinds of encounters ? Someone once wrote that "A liberal is a conservative who's been through the arrest process !" Well, I've just listened to some pretty good evidence of 1 cop "who'd not be missed" if he was fired for "abuse of discretion" and "conduct unbecoming" here . . . (Too bad my lawyer license is good in Pennsylvania only, not NY . . . ). - Paul North.
Some more details from the description at the video:
Metro North RR's Harlem Line, North White Plains, NY - Virginia Ave. X-ing ?
The 4 police depts. were Greenburgh (the most aggressive), North Castle, Westchester Co., and MTA RR police. The aggressive officer repeats a couple times that his call was that the kid was kneeling on the tracks, which the kid denies - says he knows all the railroad rules, and volunteers at a museum.
I'm not sure that I'd say he was "arrested", though it's clear that he was "detained". He posts: "I was issued a summons for "Unlawfully entering and remaining on RR property"." This apparently happened Mon. 2 weeks ago, 6 / 6 / 2011 - posted 6 / 19/ 2011 - he says he has a hearing ("court case") on July 12th.
Kid's name appears to be Gregory Grice. Since he's only 16, he's a juvenile, so special rules and procedures will likely apply.
Might not be too hard of a charge to beat, if he wasn't on or too close to the tracks when the police arrived - but if the police didn't actually see him there, then who else is going to provide the necessary testimony that he was ? Then the next question to the officers ought to be, "Where are the RR R-O-W lines are, and how do you know that - beyond a reasonable doubt ?" If they don't have a surveyor or a good plat handy to put essential fact into evidence, that ambiguousness - as can be seen in the still photos - will be fatal to the case, IMHO.
Must be a totally crime-free area if 4 police depts. have nothing better to do on a Monday afternoon than harass a 16-year old kid with a cell phone camera. I wonder if the aggressive officer feels real brave, macho, and good now about bullying a 16-year old kid to the point of crying at the end of the video ("Can you call my Mom ?") and refusing his request to call a lawyer. Wonder how many cops were involved altogether - is that a sensible use of supposedly scarce resources for the protection of the nation ? Also seems like the line was shut down for a while because of this incident ! Can you spell "O-V-E-R - R-E-A-C-T-I-O-N" ? Is there no one with common sense and good judgment / "street smarts" in these kinds of encounters ? Someone once wrote that "A liberal is a conservative who's been through the arrest process !" Well, I've just listened to some pretty good evidence of 1 cop "who'd not be missed" if he was fired for "abuse of discretion" and "conduct unbecoming" here . . . (Too bad my lawyer license is good in Pennsylvania only, not NY . . . ).
Glad to see you have strong opinions on law enforcement and how railroads should enforce trespassing laws or ask local law enforcement to do so. I find I spend a lot of time educating other attorneys about what laws apply to railroads and how they apply. There is a great deal of misinformation out there. I like it when the police take any interest in crime along the railroad, it is often hard to get their attention for railroad matters which many consider a nuisance. In my time as an ADA I built some excellent cases and put many criminals away based upon their use of railroad ROW to access nearby homes or businesses in the commission of a number of different felonies. Only my pushing the issue as an ADA got things moving. The railroad involved was very grateful and even contributed assistance.
Frankly, I think you would have a very difficult time proving the officers did anything beyond question a suspect found on railroad property which they are entitled to do and conduct a search of an individual already in violation of law. I can think of no fewer than three constitutional justifications for stopping, securing, searching and conversing with a subject found near dangerous third rail equipped tracks. And the officers don't need to call his lawyer or notify his parents until he is under arrest. In fact, they don't have to notify his parents of his arrest as he is over 16 (see discussion below). He can, of course call them from the precinct.
Crying isn't a basis to call his mommy. If I had a quarter for everyone who tried to cry their way out of a ticket I would own BNSF instead of Mr. Buffet's firm. The law also doesn't require it once you turn 16 in New York. The NY Family Court Act only requires such notification in the case of a juvenile delinquent. (See FCA Sections 301.2 and 305.2(3)).
A better attack upon the charge would probably be an Omnibus Motion testing the sufficiency of the charge as even simple trespass requires knowledge in New York. (See CPL 100.40) The Penal Law defines Trespass stating; " A Person is guilty of trespass when he knowingly enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises." (emphasis added)(See PL Section 140.05)
In New York the local crimnal courts have jurisdiction over offenders 16 or older charged with violations such as Trespass (See NY CPL Section 20.50). In this case a Village, Town or City Court. There are no special procedures for persons 16 and over. Juvenile Delinquents are defined as those under 16 under the NY Family Court Act. (See, FCA Section 301.2 and 302.1). Don't feel too bad, in such violation level cases the disposition is usually a fine and/or minimal community service. Perhaps our young friend will learn a valuable lesson about the dimensions of railroad ROW.
As to your suggestion that railroad ROW limits are not provable, the opposite is true. Almost all railroads were required to file Valuation Maps by the Interstate Commerce Commission and maintain changes to those "Val Maps" for decades. Originals of most are stored in the National Archives and filed at each County Clerk or Register of Deeds along the railroad. Of course railroads maintain their own originals and they have the force of a deed under most state real property laws. A simple review of the Val Map in question should provide the ROW dimensions at the location and can be entered into evidence as a public document and in some cases courts will merely take judicial notice. As to where he was I suspect that his video and still photos are admissable as admissions and/or statements against interest and are probably enough to place him on the property. Ahhh, when will they learn not to post everything to the internet...
There are plenty of young criminals out there. Most of the burgulars involved in my railroad cases were this kid's age or a few years older. Several will be much older when they are released from Elmira or in one case Attica. I think you are the one who is Overreacting. Sadly typical of the plaintiffs bar and criminal defense bar when law enforcement is involved. Ever had to go looking for a body under your train at night? Trust me, the occasional trespassing ticket is really not that much of an inconvenience to the trespasser by comparison. Probably why I have so little sympathy for trespassers.
Of course, if by some chance our young friend wasn't on the ROW, the charges should be and probably will be dismissed.
Show me a Liberal crime victim and I will show you a Conservative...
Oh, and if you want to try your luck up here in court, I'd suggest you check out the General Municipal Law, Court of Claims Act, CPLR and a few others. I suspect you will find lawyering here a LOT more complicated than in PA. I know I find practice in PA very loose and location specific by comparison. Oh, and no, I'm not volunteering to act as your local counsel, no offense, but I'm way too busy...
zardoz FWIW, I listened to the first 30 seconds of the encounter. One thing that nobody has brought up is that the cop says to the kid that "...they got a report of someone kneeling on the tracks with a device...." (my emphasis). I don't know about you, but if I saw a teenager kneeling on the tracks with a device I did not recognize, I would most certainly call the cops. The teenagers on the forum might not like to hear this, but in my 20 years of running trains, EVERY incident of vandalism I had to deal with was done BY TEENAGERS. What chaps my 'donkey' is when some cop hassles someone who is obviously doing nothing but taking pictures. If a person is standing on a train platform, or is positioned 100' from the tracks, with his camera on a tripod, in the middle of the day, in plain sight, even someone with a police mentality should be able to figure out what is going on.
FWIW, I listened to the first 30 seconds of the encounter. One thing that nobody has brought up is that the cop says to the kid that "...they got a report of someone kneeling on the tracks with a device...." (my emphasis). I don't know about you, but if I saw a teenager kneeling on the tracks with a device I did not recognize, I would most certainly call the cops.
The teenagers on the forum might not like to hear this, but in my 20 years of running trains, EVERY incident of vandalism I had to deal with was done BY TEENAGERS.
What chaps my 'donkey' is when some cop hassles someone who is obviously doing nothing but taking pictures. If a person is standing on a train platform, or is positioned 100' from the tracks, with his camera on a tripod, in the middle of the day, in plain sight, even someone with a police mentality should be able to figure out what is going on.
Z -
Good points all and validated by my own experiences on both sides of the cab for Class 1 (Conrail & NS) and Class 3 RRs in New York State.
Also, like brother North I am a member of the Bar (NY, PA and others) and a former prosecutor (ADA) and sworn police officer. I have also acted as a Criminal defense attorney for juveniles and adults. Being 16 years old in and of itself certainly does not constitute a defense to a crime or violation of law in New York. It may make a difference, depending upon the offense charged as to what court hears the charge.
Lets clear up a few things. First, being handcuffed is not the same as being arrested. You may be considered as being in custody, but being handcuffed is only one factor in that determination. Custody deals with a number of issues such as 4th Amendment and 5th Amendment rights concerning search and siezure and the right to counsel among other things. Being issued an Appearance Ticket (the Summons) is one type of arrest in NY and is an alternative to being booked into the County Jail. Getting a ticket for trespassing on railroad property is not uncommon. Today the New York State Legislature passed a bill substantially strengthening railroad trespass laws in New York and it now awaits only the Governor's signature, so our young friend is probably quite lucky he had his encounter previously.
Trespassing is what the law refers to as a strict liability offense. You either did it or you didn't. There is no "good intent" exception. I don't know where the ROW lines are in this case, but given the pictured layout of the tracks and the railroad ballast piles right in front of the camera it certainly seems arguable that the area where the video was shot is likely railroad property. If so, an appearance ticket under the Penal law or perhaps the Railroad Law of New York would be appropriate and enforceable.
Also, everybody seems to have forgotten that we are only a few weeks downstream from the revelation after Osama Bin Laden's elimination that rail facilities were actively considered as an Al Queida target in the U.S. Railroad police and others are bombarded daily with briefings about several rail incidents which have occurred since and others that occur daily or weekly. That likely brought a greater response from law enforcement that might be expected. Also, remember that the MTA/MN Harlem line where this took place is a third rail electrified line on a busy commuter railroad running into Manhattan. An individual with the wrong sort of "device" could be rigging not only an explosive device, but could be seeking to disrupt the electric power or signals or possibly acting as a garden variety suicide by train.
A couple of railroad related points. Knowing the railroad rules at a museum has at best very limited application to an actual railroad. Most of the railroads in the Northeast used the NORAC rules during the Conrail era. Metro North has its own rules as does the LIRR. The NS and CSX now have their own non-NORAC rules. There is also GCOR which is in use in much of the country. As railroaders we know that one must be qualified on the specific rules of the railroad we operate upon and in the event there is more than one we must know them all. Which rules does the museum use? Are they the same as MN rules? I doubt it. So more irrelevancy.
So, do I like people being accosted by police on railroad property? If they are trespassing, sure. Should honest citizens located on public property be hassled for photographing trains, absolutely not.
schlimm coborn35: schlimm: Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing. If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqO0yaqSVYY&NR=1 That was hard to find... That is the video I was referring to, of course. If you actually look, it was posted two days later, which suggests he went back to the same crossing.
coborn35: schlimm: Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing. If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqO0yaqSVYY&NR=1 That was hard to find...
schlimm: Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing. If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident.
Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing.
If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqO0yaqSVYY&NR=1 That was hard to find...
That is the video I was referring to, of course. If you actually look, it was posted two days later, which suggests he went back to the same crossing.
Or you could read the description and find out it was taken right around the time he was hassled, but uploaded June 8th.
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
coborn35 schlimm: Maybe the story was real, maybe not, but a search in the local newspaper (LoHud.com) turns up nothing. If he had a videocam, why didn't he post any footage on YouTube of this crossing on the same day this allegedly occurred? He posted plenty of other videos, including one on June 8, two days after the incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqO0yaqSVYY&NR=1 That was hard to find...
seppburgh2 It is situations like this that has made me put away my camera since 9/11. I don't need an arrest record over a SD-whatever rolling into the sunset.
It is situations like this that has made me put away my camera since 9/11. I don't need an arrest record over a SD-whatever rolling into the sunset.
I hear North Korea is nice this time of year...
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