I've heard the story before, and could look it up. Yes, I tumbled as soon as you said "hybrids".
And speaking of one of those, this afternoon, while Pat was guiding another tour around Lilacia Park (you and Ricki would love it now, Johnny!), I was up on the station platform (caught the Two Amigos with the West Chicago local, and an inbound stacker in the half-hour or so that I was there), when a wedding party exited the park. Most of them climbed into the illegally-parked limo by the park entrance, but the bride, groom, and another guy came up to the tracks and proceeded to pose for and take some of their wedding shots! As soon as they stepped off the platform onto the right-of-way I was on the phone, but couldn't get the good guys there in time. I've got the license number of that big white limo, if they wish to pursue it.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR The other one we was was in Fond du Lac, just south of the CN's yard in North Fond du Lac. No tracks going over it any more (it might be part of a bike path); when both the ex-CNW and ex-SOO lines in the area came under control of the Wisconsin Central, this line was abandoned. (Further north on this line, the drawbridge at Oshkosh, in the process of being replaced, is another example of a multiple-span Whipple truss--with two such trusses forming the swing span.)
The other one we was was in Fond du Lac, just south of the CN's yard in North Fond du Lac. No tracks going over it any more (it might be part of a bike path); when both the ex-CNW and ex-SOO lines in the area came under control of the Wisconsin Central, this line was abandoned. (Further north on this line, the drawbridge at Oshkosh, in the process of being replaced, is another example of a multiple-span Whipple truss--with two such trusses forming the swing span.)
The bridge you reference south of Shops sits still "intact", at least to fleeting drive-by inspections. No tracks approach or depart that position yet curiously there are yellow/red boards on either side facing away from the bridge. I wonder why? To my knowledge there is no bike path on that bridge-yet.
Speaking of the Oshkosh bridge...I have a question for those that know more than I do regarding control methods. It seems that the train is about a block away when the bridge closes. Is this process automatic? Maybe like the signal system "sees" the train and activates the bridge in similar fashion to a grade crossing? Or is it dispatcher controlled? Any reason why one method or the other would be used?
I managed to catch WSOR 3811 on its second revenue run yesterday. 4 of the 5 units slated to be rebuilt have now been done but only the odd numbered "Mexi-wrecks" are operable currently. 3809, -11, and -13. 3810 has broken a crankshaft apparently much in the same fashion that the -13 recently did but -13is now repaired and -10 should be shortly. The only one yet to be resurrected is -12. The paint shop at Horicon should be reopened by now or should be shortly and word has it that the 5 "new" 38's should be the first items through the shop followed by the MP15s.
Back to lurking...
Dan
I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
The Michigan Shore Railroad (ex-C&O) crosses the Grand River in Grand Haven on a drawbridge that has been around forever (originally owned by GTW). Used to have a bridgetender (and yes, I got "rides"), but C&O or CSX (who took ownership after GTW abandoned their line) converted it so that the crew would stop and close it for passage of their trains, then reopen it when they were over. Don't know whether that's still the process. There used to be substantial barge traffic on the river, but that dried up after the gravel pits closed. The drawbridge is opened nowadays mostly for pleasure craft.
CShaveRR I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
blue streak 1 CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it?
When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher.
Here's a link to Mike Rowe's senate testimony from May 11th.
Plenty of relevance to today's railroads and the shortages they will face in the upcoming years.
I just wish I was more mechanically inclined... or would have went to a technical school instead of wasting money away on a college degree.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Thanks for that link, zug. An aphorism from many years ago, still true today: "A society that does not regard its plumbers as highly as its philosophers will have neither good philosophy nor good plumbing."
- Paul North.
zardoz blue streak 1: CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge?? There was a bridge tender there up until a few (?) years ago. I used to listen to the scanner for the trains calling the tender for permission as a method for knowing when the trains were at particular locations. The trains no longer have to call for permission. When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher. There are flashing strobes and warning tones as the bridge starts to move but the delay from start of warning to bridge moving is maybe 30 seconds. It takes about 2 minutes for the bridge to open or close by my estimation (based on time delay pictures). I just didn't know if it made sense to have it automated to close based on a system like signalling or if it was all manually moved subject to reading the CTC board on proximity of trains.
blue streak 1: CShaveRR: I'm amazed at either possibility, Dan. I'm assuming there's no bridgetender there, because that would be obvious. But what's to prevent the bridge from closing in the face of some vessel that requires it? The FEC method of dispatcher controlled drawbridges seems to be the best of all worlds. Very large lighted signs on the waterways lights up wiith a "warning bridge will close in 10 .. 9 .. etc minutes. At 0 minutes a warning horn blows and the bridges close. Sign warns "bridge closed" as bridge closes until bridge is open. I believe that FEC has CCTV s to monitor the waterways before closing the bridge??
When the bridge is about to close, there is a warning sound that begins about 2 minutes - maybe a bit longer - before the bridge starts to close (which is very helpful for when I doze off waiting for a train). There are cameras on the bridge, which is controlled by the dispatcher. There are flashing strobes and warning tones as the bridge starts to move but the delay from start of warning to bridge moving is maybe 30 seconds. It takes about 2 minutes for the bridge to open or close by my estimation (based on time delay pictures). I just didn't know if it made sense to have it automated to close based on a system like signalling or if it was all manually moved subject to reading the CTC board on proximity of trains.
There is a sign with a number to call for boats to remind a dispatcher that the bridge needs to open (basically what it says). I know there are cameras showing the bridge to (presumably) the dispatching center in Homewood.
Link to web page about Amtrak's PORTAL swing bridge just east of Newark, NJ, which has details about its operation and schedule, pending its replacement which is now underway. In brief, it isn't opened during "rush hours"; outside of those, it is opened "on signal" - according to this article, that's almost daily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Bridge#Operation
See also the official Portal Bridge website at: http://www.portalbridgenec.com/about-the-project.html
The line to Hay River, N.W.T Canada, has been shut down by a massive wildfire at Slave Lake, AB. This line has been the topic of several threads on this forum in recent years as Hay River is the northern most point physically connected to the North American rail system. CN's Slave Lake Sub. had to be shut down due to the fire. Although it is too early to get complete damage assessments they already know one bridge has been badly damaged.
CN's website mentions that alternative routes may be used to get to Hay River, but my RR atlas shows the only alternate route has portions that are out of service. My atlas dates from 2007 so I'm not sure what CN has been doing up there in recent years.
Half of the town of Slave Lake, pop 7000, has been burned. It is amazing to see videos of modern multi-storey buildings with flames coming out of every window. So far the City Hall, the Library, and a mall have burned. They are not sure about the Hospital and the High School.. There have been numerous homes and small business burned. There were a number of explosions when a gas station burned.
I will let you know when I hear more.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
NASA has some interesting pictures of Slave Lake and environs, and there's a link on that page to images from CTV.
Those of us who live in the northeast US (and SE Canada) sometimes don't appreciate the magnitude of such fires - if we have something over 10 acres we're shocked - these fires are burning dozens of square miles.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Hi!
Recently, I waited (and waited! ) for an intermodal. Why is it that I saw so many single stacked? Wouldn't it be more efficient to double stack all they could? (It did have quite a number of doubles on.) Or, is this bc of previous/ future stops, and that prob. they took some off before my location and/or were going to load some on top after it went by me? Thanks!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Larry, thanks for that interesting link. And yes Nance, you last full sentence pretty much covered the problem. Also there may be deadlines to leave the loading point and that is how things were set up when the cars had to depart.
Thanks, Bruce!
The following is part of a post on a different site from a gal I know:
Heavy rain Friday caused a massive landslide near Fredericktown, PA that sent boulders across Route 88 and forced the state Department of Transportation to close the two-lane road to traffic. The road looks closed to me whether the state says it's closed or not. (just my opinion) lol. The mound of rock and mud is larger than a one-story house, and there is at least one boulder that is larger than a minivan on the road...according to a PennDOT spokeswoman. Praise the Lord that this is in an area where there are no homes along Route 88 although the train tracks and the Monongahela River are on the right-hand side of the road. PennDOT fears more boulders will fall at the Route 88 landslide site. The state Department of Transportation has asked Norfolk Southern to slow its trains beside the massive landslide over concerns their vibrations will cause more rocks to part from the steep cliff. Other worries are that vehicles using the local detour will create similar vibrations beside tons of rocks that appear ready to fall. Roughly 6,000 vehicles normally travel the road daily.
How does that work? WHO issues a slow order and does it state how fast or is that up to the train crew? I imagine they would comply but do they HAVE to if, say, it impacted their revenue? IF the tracks are in danger (I don't know) but if they are, would they still run trains through there anyway??!!
(Responding to Nance's question a couple posts above about all the single-layer containers on an intermodal train:)
Perhaps some of those "cars" of 3 to 5 "platforms", etc. or "blocks" of 1 or more of them were going to different destinations such as interchanges or terminals, and leaving the containers loaded that way would facilitate sorting the containers by merely switching the cars or blocks - instead of all the individual containers - for that destination. Of course, as soon as there is 1 more container than the last full car for a destination, then another entire car is needed to take it along too, and it wouldn't be good physics to have a bunch of fully loaded cars and then 1 car with only 1 container on it, so that may be a reason why they are scattered like that.
And/ or even if the singles were moved to make all doubles, there might then still be a lot of empty wells, because the platforms were needed at the destination anyway for a return load, etc., etc. So why spend a lot of time and effort to unload and reload containers to rearrange them into an apparently more efficient configuration, when in the end the same number of containers and cars are going to the same places anyhow ?
Somebody's got to say it...you're not mixing piggyback cars and spine cars in with double-stack wells, are you? Pigs can't be stacked, and neither can spine cars.
One thing about loading multi-unit cars (stack or spine) with articulated units: if they don't have a full load for a car, they'll try and balance it over the trucks (regardless of the fact that the intermediate trucks may be rated to hold heavier loads). For example, if you have six boxes and two five-unit cars, you'll see the boxes put on the two end units and the middle unit of both cars for this reason.
_________________
Nance, as for your question about the rockslide, I'd fully expect the railroad to ignore this request, unless they saw the need to protect their own right-of-way. My experience has been that the amount of vibration set up by passing freight cars has no proportional relationship to the speed--sometimes reducing the speed could set up some harmonic vibrations that wouldn't occur when the car was moving faster. (I'm talking about individual cars because that's what I dealt with--I would assume that entire trains would have similar unpredictable characteristics.) We used to get loads of oats for Cedar Rapids that would be handled very carefully, but would shake my tower so much that I expected to see cracks opening up and hear pieces of stucco falling to the ground. That's right...they were Quaker oats!
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I have to get out today. It's a nice day for a ride. Of course, I'll need permission if I am to take this computer along with me, but I'll go have lunch, visit the hobby shop, and go trackside for as long as I dare. Temperatures are in the low 50s right now, with not too much warmup in the forecast--perfect!
A brief update on the Slave Lake, AB fire situation.
The town is still evacuated with no estimate for reentry. They are getting power restored but have no potable water. The fire has moved east of town which will still affect CN as the line runs east/west along the south shore of Lesser Slave Lake. CN joins a long line of property owners in the area who do not have access to their field assets: oil companies, pipeline operators, and logging and pulp operations. And they can't check with helicopters as the airspace is restricted to water bombers. Therefore they have nothing further to report on the situation.
Carl - CSX is doing some track work up this way, including some CWR. The CWR train appears to be made up of modified gons - ends removed, racks added.
Curiously, while CSX is plainly stencilled on the cars, the reporting marks are C&O, including C&O 920247 (the only one I pulled a number off).
-Nance
The roadmaster/MTM and the Division Engineer/MTP are going to call the shots on this one, possibly with one of the Design & Const. Field Engineers from Atlanta's help if he/she happens to be close by (There aren't a hole lot of those folks around). The train crew/ operating bubbas won't call the shots here. I would expect that the roadmaster will inspect the site and talk to his counterpart at PennDOT prior to making any decisions regarding any slow order. Trains do put energy into the ground (It's the roadmaster's charge, not the operating supervisor's, dispatcher's or train crew's...) but the other question is the PennDOT concern legit? (from a trained geoTechnical/Civil Engineer or somebody else?)
On the stack train issue, if they are well cars (as opposed to bare tables or spines, the issue may also be clearances....Back east is full of clearance restricted routes with plenty of substandard bridges, tunnels and other overhead obstructions that foul 19'6" ATR twin 9.5ft seacans stacked in a well. Designed in the steam era, they never even thought of the concept of TOFC/COFC, stack trains, etc. and only knew 40 ft boxcars and lighter rail sections.
Larry, a lot of the C&O welded-rail cars were built from gons (and some were transferred to B&O, I believe). I'm not sure about the cars you saw, but the earliest C&O welded-rail cars were built out of high-side 40-foot gons, some of Pere Marquette ancestry. Keep in mind that C&O and B&O were welded-rail pioneers, and the first railroad to reach 5000 miles of welded rail, sometime in the early 1970s.
Thanks, MC! I was in no way trying to minimize the roadmasters' input into this situation. There are situations around there (rocks, mostly) that were never dealt with in my neck of the woods, and I'm sure they could have a direct effect on vibrations some distance away.
My foray into Elmhurst was fun, but not particularly exciting. Plenty of trains seen, and power included an unpatched SP unit (187) and a pair of TFM GEs. The most interesting operation I saw was an eastbound scoot crossing over from Track 1 to Track 2 at Park (perfectly normal), but the home signal for Track 2 almost immediately changed to Restricting (two reds over Lunar White) so that an eastbound manifest (the guy with the two TFMs) could follow the scoot--he didn't show up for a few minutes, though. I heard the ATWS go off a couple of times, and it is not working the way that I was told it should.
I have a signal question this morning. A friend shared a link to the following picture with me:http://flic.kr/p/9qMDh5
I've seen single, double, & triple butI haven't seen a quad-light signal before. In the picture above the far left and right signals have the red at the 'top' which is what I expect but the one that's just left of the far right signal has red as the 2nd from top light.
My questions:1) What are the likely aspects on the far left and right signals? Why 4 lights?
2) What is the top aspect for the signal with red as the 2nd from top? Why?
Dan, I've seen these four-light signals along the CP (ICE) between the Quad Cities and Muscatine, Iowa, as well (and was going to suggest that the high red light was in case the low red light became submerged when the river flooded), but really don't have a clue as to what aspects can be displayed by them.
I might suggest that they are probably specialized signals within a control point (maybe the derail, in the one case), as there are switches in the foreground that don't appear to have any signals governing them, and a support for what looks more like a mainline signal cantilever beyond the overpass. You would probably have to go to some sort of special instructions book to find more about these. The CP section of my CORA book doesn't mention them.
Dan,admittedly it was a long shot, but I checked the Canadian rules (CROR) and those four light signals are not something CP packed in their grip and brought down with them when they came to the US in a big way in the nineties. One other place I thought you might try is the rule book of whatever the predecessor road of ICE/CP was at that yard.
The situation at Slave Lake has a tie in with Nance's last question. There was video released yesterday, taken from a helicopter, showing a train standing on the single track through town. Fortunately it was in a area not touched by the fire. I'm guessing the crew got to Slave Lake thinking it would be a safe place to tie up, before suddenly having to join the evacuation. But I wonder who decided, and what the process was, to stop the train there. Working east of Calgary, forest fires were not something Dad ever had to deal with as a Dispatcher!
There is no word at all on any damage assessments.
I haven't been able to see the linked picture (my dinosaur of a computer doesn't like flikr. It's one of a couple sites that for me take forever to open, usually.) but the UP has one with a four light head out around Omaha. On this particular signal, the head is the bottom one. The fourth aspect is a lunar. I'd guess the ones everyone else is seeing also can display a lunar as the fourth aspect possible.
Remember, whether the head has 1, 2, 3 or 4 lights on it no more than one of them can be displayed at any time. (On some signal combinations, a head can also remain dark.) If a single head has two of it's lights displayed, the signal is imperfectly displayed and we all know what that means, right? (Unless there's a local special instruction that authorizes it.)
Carl, I've seen those type signals over by Muscatine, too. When I saw them it was still the SOO, about a year or so after they acquired the Milwaukee Road so I don't know for sure who installed them. The place I saw the signal was orginally RI and I'm fairly certain they weren't from the RI era.
Jeff
Cruising on a site and found this:
http://www.altoona.psu.edu/academics/docs/be/rte/rte_degree_flyer.pdf
First time I've seen the curriculum up in print. Fun stuff (well, except the Calc II - integration bites!, and computer science..). Now all I have to do is convinve myself that I can somehow beat out all the whiz kids fresh out of high school, can give up my job that pays decent, my healthcare, retirement, 401k...
A coworker once told me that the best thing that could ever happen to me is to be fired. He's a smart guy.
Thanks for sharing that curriculum, zug.- first i've seen it, too. At first glance, looks pretty comprehensive - more than I expected. Now it'll be interesting to see who they get to teach those courses - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
About 30 years ago a columnist for the NMRA Bulletin - guy by the name of Bill Kennerly, wrote a column for several years called "Notes from an Old Time Book", about his time working for the SP in the San Francisco area. By days he taught high school; then he fired a "midnight goat" pretty regularly. I don't or recall how he had enough seniority to hold down that job so steadily, but he did.
Zug, am I ever glad my post secondary education days are past me! Looking at that course list made the hair on the back of my neck stand up! One thing though, if the demand for engineers is as urgent as they say, it is interesting that there is no talk of a two year program for those who already have a relevant degree. (Engineering or Science).
AgentKid The situation at Slave Lake has a tie in with Nance's last question. There was video released yesterday, taken from a helicopter, showing a train standing on the single track through town. Fortunately it was in a area not touched by the fire. I'm guessing the crew got to Slave Lake thinking it would be a safe place to tie up, before suddenly having to join the evacuation. But I wonder who decided, and what the process was, to stop the train there. Working east of Calgary, forest fires were not something Dad ever had to deal with as a Dispatcher! There is no word at all on any damage assessments. Bruce
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=50635&src=eoa-iotd
Thanks for those images Z. This situation has clearly taken on a life of its' own, and it is very sad to read of the situation affecting the people of Slave Lake. The evacuation is the largest such event in the history of Alberta.
Latest reports put the return of people to town at at least two weeks from now. An example of the problem is that today, during an escorted media tour, a box of ammunition in a still smouldering house exploded and members of the media had to duck for cover where they could find it.
Still no word from the Oil and "Transportation" companies affected, mentioned in your link, about expected damages.
Paul_D_North_Jr Thanks for sharing that curriculum, zug.- first i've seen it, too. At first glance, looks pretty comprehensive - more than I expected. Now it'll be interesting to see who they get to teach those courses - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ? - Paul North.
It does look to be set up for the general stuff the first 2 years (teachable at a satellite campus), with the RR-specific studies the junior and senior year. Be interesting to see if they ever expand their RR-oriented offerings.
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