zug - over the weekend it occurred to me that there's a big difference between liking trains or railroads (which many people do) - and liking railroading (i.e., the business or practice of same).
I've said it before here, because others have too: Sometimes when you get that job, you lose the hobby interest. For some of us, there can be too much of a good thing - or at least enough to 'scratch that itch' / "fulfill that psychological need" as much as is needed. Being in the business just about killed my model railroading interests, and riding behind a steam locomotive someplace didn't have the attraction it used to. So don't feel that you're an anomaly or an exception because of that diminished drive or interest.
- Paul North.
CNW 6000 Good evening. I thought I'd share what I caught today. ...........Not a bad day at all! C/C welcome.
Good evening. I thought I'd share what I caught today. ...........Not a bad day at all! C/C welcome.
Dan, I don't know how you manage to see so many trains (nice pics, btw). I was in Appleton Saturday from about 11am to 3pm, and I only heard one train hit the detector at 181! And get this--during my entire trip between Milwaukee and FDL (both directions) I neither heard nor saw any activity. And the only other action I heard was for 2 trains that were heading to Green Bay.
Dumb question time.
Was on the phone today with the STB Librarian. Got a comment that knocked me for a big loop.
Why would the C&O Historical archivist all of a sudden not be interested in a digital all the C&O entries in the ICC Index Card File Case?????
Flummoxed Feathers
Beats the heck out of me, MC! I don't know all of what happened before, though. The C&OHS had some very good cooperation with C&O and Chessie System powers-that-be back in the day.
I'm trying to figure out how to get some good info out of the C&OHS without having to go back down there again. I wouldn't mind being able to spend some time down there, but this darn book is supposed to be out by August!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I thought Joe was starting the celebration a day early, but I guess June 13 is Matt's correct birthday. This is the year he enters double-digits. Happy birthday, Big Guy--hope you can come out this way later this summer!
(I had down that Matt's birthday was tomorrow, same as my grandson Nico. He's three, by the way, and still likes trains--keeping my fingers crossed!)
Hey, Happy Birthday Matt!! Hope it's your most fun one yet!!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Thanks Jim. Call it "luck" or well tuned "little birdies"...gimme a call next time you're coming this way man.
Dan
zugmann WMNB4THRTL: Thanks everybody! BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!) Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!! It's a hard task to just memorize signal names and indications. Easier if you figure out the system. For example, take your slow approach and approach slow. The second word in each is the action that you must take for the next signal. Slow approach: When the second word is approach, then you are going to be preparing to stop at the next signal. The word in front has to do with the interlocking, switches, etc you are currently going through on your way to the next signal. Approach slow. The slow is the second word. So you will be reducing your speed to slow for the next signal.
WMNB4THRTL: Thanks everybody! BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!) Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!!
WMNB4THRTL:
Thanks everybody!
BUT...I'm ready to throw in the towel on these signals!!!! I'm on that site studying and it tells about Approach slow and Slow approach, which are two totally different things, with completely different meanings!!!! (BTW It also says there are 118 different ones to know/learn!!)
Are you seriously kidding me right now??!! OK, where's the hidden camera??!!
It's a hard task to just memorize signal names and indications. Easier if you figure out the system. For example, take your slow approach and approach slow. The second word in each is the action that you must take for the next signal. Slow approach: When the second word is approach, then you are going to be preparing to stop at the next signal. The word in front has to do with the interlocking, switches, etc you are currently going through on your way to the next signal.
Approach slow. The slow is the second word. So you will be reducing your speed to slow for the next signal.
*Not easily understood by mere mortals - fair warning !
Also be forewarned that Mr. Krug is pretty assertive about how mistaken the railroad's interpretations of some of those rules was. (Again - he retired, was not fired - so don't be casting aspersions upon the man . . . )
Anyway, they are:
"Rules, Rules, Rules" (generally) - http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rules/rules.htm
"Approach Medium" - http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rules/rule_appmed.htm
"Absolute or Intermediate CTC authorization - Controlled Signal or Block Signal" - http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rules/rule_absolutectc.htm
"Reverse Movements in CTC - Reverse Movements" - http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rules/rule_reverse.htm
"Enterering a CTC Main at a Electric Lock - GCOR Electric Locked hand operated switch rule" - http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/rules/rule_eleclock.htm
Paul_D_North_Jr zug - over the weekend it occurred to me that there's a big difference between liking trains or railroads (which many people do) - and liking railroading (i.e., the business or practice of same). I've said it before here, because others have too: Sometimes when you get that job, you lose the hobby interest. For some of us, there can be too much of a good thing - or at least enough to 'scratch that itch' / "fulfill that psychological need" as much as is needed. Being in the business just about killed my model railroading interests, and riding behind a steam locomotive someplace didn't have the attraction it used to. So don't feel that you're an anomaly or an exception because of that diminished drive or interest. - Paul North.
I was never much of a railfan. Sure, I liked trains, but I only occasionally did the railfan things. I was always more into the industry and practices (which I still am).
Just these past few months... frustration? i don't know.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Zug, I'm not sure exactly what it is about the industry and practices that interest you, but the best thing to do would be to observe them. It sounds like it would be a little different from the chase-trains-and-photograph-locomotives type of railfanning. Are the practices you're interested in observable (safely) while you work? When I was working, I got plenty of opportunity to note my raw materials for freight-car research.
_________________________________
My news is good tonight...the book I've been working on revising is done here! I sent the text on to the layout guru I hope to get some actual pages back next month for further tweaking.
We got out briefly this afternoon, at which time I noticed that the last of the intermediate signal bridges on the Elmhurst-West Chicago project had been erected. The railroad has a grade crossing in Elmhurst out for rehabilitation, and another one in Villa Park...one in Lombard will be closed for a few days later this week.
Still to come--bridges for the home signals at the new Lombard crossovers, and everything for the new crossovers to be built by Wheaton College. The Chase Street crossing in Wheaton, due to be closed for those new crossovers, is still open.
Hey, nice job on the finish, Carl!! Glad for all the good info, Paul and the rest of you, too!
I'm reading a collection of RRing tales right now and they got me to wondering: what is done nowadays to prevent and/or deal with animals on the tracks? Of course, farmers use fences and engineers use whistles, but besides those two things? I'm thinking of both livestock and wild animals. TIA!!
On a bit of a side note, I remember being told by a school bus driver years ago that it is against our state law for them to brake to avoid hitting a running animal, which I found to be rather interesting!
I always tell new student engineers, "Don't veer for deer."
Many places the railroad is responsible for the fencing. One time when I was volunteering with the Boone & Scenic Valley track gang we were repairing fence. I remember once hearing a RI section foreman telling the local agent he had to go get some barbed wire to fix a fence along the ROW.
Whether there's a hole in the fence and a farm animal gets out or a wild animal starts across the tracks, if they don't heed the horn and move out of the way, getting struck is what usually happens. Of course when a farm animal gets struck by a train, it's always the farmer's prized (insert animal here).
I don't particularly like hitting animals, but better with the train than with my car. I did feel sorry for that turtle out by Logan, IA about a month ago. All that effort to climb over one 136lb rail and get half way over (high centered) on the second, and then we come around the corner. I would've thought the vibration might knock him off, but no.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff.
In my (so far) short training time, I've been at the helm for several deer, a fox, a few rabbits, one idiot that I won't go into detail about, and who knows what else?! I've been in the brakeman's seat for a teen (he's fine, hopefully just scared enough to stay OFF the tracks!!); some folks a bit too close to the tracks, but fine; a few impatient auto drivers--fine; and one turtle, who I had to work real hard to convince myself (read as: pretend) he changed his mind just in the nick of time, but...
Son of dumb question:
Where was it in Illinois that the town fathers wanted to place a new depot and platform.....and Amtrak et al said they wouldn/t stop at that location? (poltical boondoggle) Mendota maybe?
Can't find the thread that links to it.
Nance, as Jeff says, there is not much you can do if someone or anything is on the track. There is the horn signal to warn things and people away from the track, but whoever/whatever is probably too startled or ignorant to know to get off/away.
Several years ago, as I was waiting to take Amtrak #6 out of Sacramento, a man moved to the track side of the warning line on the plaform, the engineer of the oncomng train gave the proper signal--and the man did not know that he was in danger; the noise of the oncoming train was too great for me to call to him to get back.
Several more years back, I was riding the engine of IC #1 from Memphis to Grenada, having a great time as we went down the track at ninety miles an hour (ABS only). We came up on a dog on the track, and the poor thing tried to outrun the City of New Orleans. He could not, nor did he jump off the track. As I recall, the sun had gone down too much for me to tell whistle posts from mile posts (they were the same shape), so I had given the cord for the horn back to the engineer.
Last week, a girl was killed at a street crossing of TRAX in West Jordan, Utah, because she did not look both ways before starting across. One train had just gone by in one direction, and the girl thought it was safe to cross, even though the gate across one lane of traffic was still down (no gate across the other lane on that side of the track); she could not see anything coming until she was almost to the track because of a sound wall--and the area is a "quiet zone." The operator, of course could not see her until she was right in front of his train. The Utah Transit Authority is moving the sound walls back from the crossings on that line.
Try as they may, the railroads cannot keep everyone/everything offn the track, especially when a train is about to occupy it.
Johnny
At times, someone will deliberately put something on the track, expecting to be paid damages. Not long ago, there was an account in Trains about a man who parked his old, old car on the N&W a little west of Abingdon, with the expectation that he would get perhaps a down payment on a new car after the eastbound Tennessean hit it. (Paul North may be able to give you the reference). He and his very young son, of course, were well away from the car when #46 came barrelling through. However, after someone in the crew asked the little boy what they were going to do, it was agreed that the railroad owed the man nothing.
MC, I wish I could help you with that Illinois town. Mendota has a very good location to stop at now; I can't imagine why they'd want to change it. Is this some place that wants service and didn't have it before, or someplace that's moving within town and didn't do its homework?
Of course, Illinois is the location of the international airport that nobody uses (and I haven't heard anything about an airport at Peotone lately, but that'd be another one).
We are up in Michigan for a long weekend. Made an interesting discovery in Chesterton, Indiana, today: the old NYC freight house there has been converted into a Bed & Breakfast! If railfans were to stay there, we'd probably still be able to go out and meet you.
Also of interest to current and former Michiganders: There's an Arcadia book (you've no doubt seen these) devoted to Vernor's Ginger Ale!
Carl: It was discussed on this forum, but I cannot find it. It was the case of the town fathers and a developer in cahoots and the railroad was never invited to the party, but all of a sudden expected to stop in this 'burg..... Lots of money changed hands without the desired end result.
ps - My head is still spinning over the NKCR incident out this way at Wallace, NE.
Deggesty Nance, as Jeff says, there is not much you can do if someone or anything is on the track. There is the horn signal to warn things and people away from the track, but whoever/whatever is probably too startled or ignorant to know to get off/away.
mudchicken - That's enough of a clue for me to remember it: Bellwood, Illinois.
The thread here was captioned "Passenger Service with Other Peoples' Money", was started by greyhounds on 04-05-2011 at this link:
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/190157/2076089.aspx#2076089
Consider this partial repayment for past favors !
Well, Duh! I should have remembered that! (It's just Metra--no Amtrak involved.) I haven't heard of any recent developments in connection with this. Maybe I should hop on a scoot and check out the progress on the new connecting track for myself.
THIS is the part that gives me pause, even now. How do you deal with it? Police/fire/EMS have stress debriefing; does the RR use it?
Oops I was replying to zardoz
WMNB4THRTL THIS is the part that gives me pause, even now. How do you deal with it? Police/fire/EMS have stress debriefing; does the RR use it?
Back "in my day", we just carried on with our assignment. There was no such thing as "debriefing" "grief counselling" or "time off due to stress". We just cleared the tracks, got permission from authorities to go, and we proceeded to our destination.
It would likely be different for each crewperson. Plus the degree of 'messiness' (for me, anyway) was a factor. If we hit a car, and it was pushed to the side, the trauma for me wasn't so bad. But when it was a pedestrian--well, those were much worse, especially if I saw the face of the person I was about to hit. But for me, it was after the day was over when the emotional impact manifest itself.
(Warning: graphic details follow) For instance, after hitting a suicide at 70mph with the cabcar of a suburban train, the body was a mangled mess (if you've ever seen the front of a cabcar, you'd understand why it makes such carnage--it is far worse than the front of a freight locomotive). Anyway, the Coroner wanted us to recover all of the body parts for their investigation. As engineer, it was my duty (the train crew were all in their uniforms) to go underneath the train to extract all of the body bits and pieces. Few of the body parts were recognizable. I had never seen a body in that condition. When we got in to Chicago, due to the lengthly delay, we only had about 20 minutes to make ready for our outbound trip. Due to my yukky extraction duties, I needed to seriously clean up before proceeding. During the outbound trip, (and as it was late in my day, it was my normal lunch time) I was able to eat lunch; when we arrived at Waukegan, I tied up, ending my day.
Or so I thought. As I relaxed at home (and the shock began to wear off), the images of the incident began to creep into my consciousness. Eventually, most of my thoughts were of what happened that day. Soon I could not get the images out of my mind. I was totally unable to get much sleep, due to the continual barrage of images.
(End of grossness)
That one was the worst of the 9 fatalaties I experienced as engineer. Now, more than 30 years after it happened, I can still recall the event in graphic detail.
CShaveRRAlso of interest to current and former Michiganders: There's an Arcadia book (you've no doubt seen these) devoted to Vernor's Ginger Ale!
Nectar of the gods, especially when combined with vanilla ice cream to make a Boston cooler....
One of our volunteers made a trip out that way late last winter and brought back several six packs for me. Alas, I've enjoyed the last of them. May have to head west this summer for more....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
On CISD - sometimes volunteer firefighters and EMT's attend to such a call and that's the last we ever see of them. I can still remember most of the fatals I've been to. Sometimes you can reconcile them to yourself, and sometimes you can't. We do usually have the advantage of not having been personally involved with the actual incident, arriving instead after the fact.
As a volunteer officer, I don't usually have the opportunity to see members right after such an incident, so I can't watch them for signs that they're having problems dealing with it.
It's a "wisdom" of fire and EMS that we all have "our" call - the straw that breaks the camel's back, if you will. Even if we can usually deal with such incidents, there's going to be one that strikes home for some reason (perhaps a resemblance to a family member). And that may be the call that causes us to hang up our helmet and stethoscope.
But that's enough of this gruesome stuff.
I saw a car (possibly a hopper??) today that was marked "Green Only" along with an arrow pointing to the top of the car. It's no longer in service and looks fairly old. I only caught a fair glimpse of it but it is on display, so I can check on it again some time. Any idea(s) on what that means?! Thanks.
Used for animal hides prior to tanning ? (just about ruins the car for any other lading, but boxcars were more common- "green hides" is a term of art) Some other commodity that has a "green" or unfinished or unrefined state ?
Otherwise : Carrying sod ? Money from the U.S. Treasury ?
tree68 [snipped] We do usually have the advantage of not having been personally involved with the actual incident, arriving instead after the fact.
Larry, you and others may be interested in this book and interview by Kate Braestrup, who is a chaplain for Maine Game Warden service, and the victims and families of accidents, search-and-rescue missions, etc. She's not just a outside observer - some years ago her husband, a state trooper, died in the line of duty:
Here If You Need Me, by Kate Braestrup, Little, Brown & Co., 2007, ISBN-10: 9780316066303, ISBN-13: 978-0316066303 - http://www.amazon.com/Here-If-You-Need-Me/dp/0316066303
Excerpt: http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011/presence-in-the-wild/braestrup-chapter11.shtml
Interview titled "Presence in the Wild" & background info: http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011/presence-in-the-wild/
Paul_D_North_Jr That's the part of zardoz's event that seems unfair - having to deal with all the aspects of that incident. It would have made more sense for Mechanical Dept. personnel to do that, IMHO.
That's the part of zardoz's event that seems unfair - having to deal with all the aspects of that incident. It would have made more sense for Mechanical Dept. personnel to do that, IMHO.
It certainly wasn't something I wanted to do, but I couldn't expect uniformed personnel go crawling on the ballast and getting blood and dirt on their nice clothes (I wore grubbies due to the deplorable conditions in the engine rooms of those old F7s & E8s). Of course, if I didn't like the train crew, I might have insisted that it was my place in the cab; but they were good guys.
WMNB4THRTL [snipped] I guess mostly I'm looking for: life in America, as it related to RR's in the 1930's and '40's; how RRing shaped America; baggage cars around that time (what they typically hauled, etc); caboose info; the importance of RRs in US today, and any other depot info that might be helpful or interesting. Probably there's some more 'stuff' I'm forgetting at the moment, but that will get this started for now. Thanks, as always, for any and all help!!
Thanks, as always, for any and all help!!
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