Shame there's nothing like that near WI. I'd like to upgrade my BS to something more 'practical'.
Dan
University of Wisconsin - Madison's "Railroad Engineering Courses" - mostly multi-day seminar format:
http://epdweb.engr.wisc.edu/railroad-engineering-courses.lasso
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign's "Railroad Engineering Program":
http://ict.illinois.edu/railroad/
Michigan Tech's "Rail Transportation Program":
http://www.rail.mtu.edu/index.htm
Purdue University's "Transportation Engineering" program is general and - surprisingly, at least to me - apparently has nothing specifically for rail transportation:
https://engineering.purdue.edu/CE/Academics/Undergraduate/Groups/Transportation
Northwestern University's Transportation Center - http://transportation.northwestern.edu/ - has lessengineering and more of a business and policy orientation, with an undergraduate minor in Transportation & Logistics - http://transportation.northwestern.edu/academic/ugradMinor.html - as well as self-guided M.S. and Ph.D. programs, seminars, etc. - see the left-hand column for details. Notably, 5 of the 7 class I's - BNSF, CN, CSX, NS, and UP appear as sponsors or participants of some sort at the bottom of the NUTC's Business Advisory Committee webpage: http://transportation.northwestern.edu/bac/
This list is not exhaustive/ all-inclusive - they may well be others of which I'm not aware or forgot this morning . . .
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr Thanks for sharing that curriculum, zug.- first i've seen it, too. At first glance, looks pretty comprehensive - more than I expected. Now it'll be interesting to see who they get to teach those courses - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ? - Paul North.
Thanks for sharing that curriculum, zug.- first i've seen it, too. At first glance, looks pretty comprehensive - more than I expected. Now it'll be interesting to see who they get to teach those courses - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
I don't know if that was my physics professor's problem, but some things I did not grasp in the classroom but comprehended later. He's still a great guy (up in his eighties, now) and I enjoyed seeing him and his wife when we were at my college last month.
Johnny
....At the rate the new hires are washing out (wimping out...? in less than 6 months) of the programs at NS, CSX and BNSF, they're going to have to get some additional fresh blood from somewhere. Zugs probably will have no problem here - he knows the culture.
If you come from a BSCE program that does not have basic route surveying in the core curriculum, don't even bother to apply. (you won't survive).
Some of the college railroad civil-engineering are training operating managers, not the badly needed next generation of track & bridge engineers. (Purdue)
IMHO - Transportation Engineers are rubber tired highway bubbas, few have any real rail training.
zugmann http://www.altoona.psu.edu/academics/docs/be/rte/rte_degree_flyer.pdf First time I've seen the curriculum up in print. Fun stuff (well, except the Calc II - integration bites!, and computer science..). Now all I have to do is convinve myself that I can somehow beat out all the whiz kids fresh out of high school, can give up my job that pays decent, my healthcare, retirement, 401k... A coworker once told me that the best thing that could ever happen to me is to be fired. He's a smart guy.
First time I've seen the curriculum up in print. Fun stuff (well, except the Calc II - integration bites!, and computer science..). Now all I have to do is convinve myself that I can somehow beat out all the whiz kids fresh out of high school, can give up my job that pays decent, my healthcare, retirement, 401k...
A coworker once told me that the best thing that could ever happen to me is to be fired. He's a smart guy.
zug, integration = "the area under the curve" is pretty fundamental to a lot of engineering, esp. structural and energy-related. Fortunately, it's usually polynomial equations, not logarithmic, trigonometric, exponential, etc. And I don't see Differential Equations there anyplace, so clearly this curriculum is not research-oriented, but more practical - be glad for that !
zug's dilemma illustrates why this situation ought to be a perfect application for learning 'on-line' and/ or via video recordings, etc. (with appropriate safeguards for confirming identity, etc.). A lot could be done by tutorials, with just a 1 or 2 times a month in-person class or meeting with the Prof., and the Prof. and/ or a good Teaching Asst. with scheduled office hours or availability, including nights and weekends, for coaching, tutoring, helping over the rough spots, etc. But I suspect that the accredited universities are justifiably wary of giving up their franchise and claims for high tuition income to cover all the admin. and ivy-covered halls that could be mostly rendered redundant by such a transition . . . I wouldn't mind putting those kinds of courses together if I could find a way to get paid for it . . .
Johnny, that's true of me, too - it took another 'go-round' and at a slower pace along with some practical applications to better comprehend some of the more abstract topics.
Well, there. Home from two days on the railroad with the Southern Appalachia Railroad Museum charter.
What a magnificent group (both the organizers and the passengers). While there was plenty of foaming going on, there were also those keeping careful track of where they were and what they saw.
The group included two blokes from Britain, no less - great fellows, both ALCO enthusiasts (we provided them with some ALCO exposure - C425 805, nee BCR, nee EL 2455 - by borrowing a locomotive from MWHA for the first day).
The trip yesterday was on track I regularly work, so it wasn't "special" (although I did call the 6 mile push move to Carter from the front walkway of our GP-9). Today we travelled to end-of-track at Lyons Falls - or at least as I could get them, as there was a derail right in front of the gondola blocking our acces to the real end-of-track a hundred feet or so further north.
Today's trip also included a stop at a gem of a local museum commemorating the Black River Canal, which ran well into the railroad years. A unique feature of the museum is a working lock demonstration which the patrons can operate, pushing "canal boats" along the waterway and through the operating locks...
Nance - you missed a winner.
I've got one or two pictures. I'll share them later.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
A few images from the SARM excursions:
Highlight of the trip, at least for those able to make it down to the required vantage point (mountain goat tendencies required) was a run-by and then posed shots on MA&N's Sugar River Bridge:
And a couple of happy campers after the sun came out to brighten up the posed shots on the bridge:
These were taken with my cell phone, which just doesn't measure up to my Digital Rebel, for some reason: A cloudy run-by on the old Adirondack Division:
These were taken with my cell phone, which just doesn't measure up to my Digital Rebel, for some reason:
A cloudy run-by on the old Adirondack Division:
And that hidden gem in Boonville, NY - the Black River Canal Museum, specifically the working canal lock demo:
Sorry for the blur...
....Looks like the cell phone does a pretty good job allowing one to grab some photos.
Quentin
Thanks, Larry. I am real disappointed, but since I don't even have $$$ for gas, food, etc right now...
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Know the feeling, Nance! We're with you in those fixed-income blues. And, being kind of stupid in our earlier years, we managed to time our homeowners' insurance to come up at the same time as our first property tax payment! Only twelve days to payday!
Larry, great pictures! Maybe I'd have enough mountain-goat left in me to do this sometime.
This morning we were working in the yard and I was hearing trains the whole time. They sound their horns through town pretty heavily because of the construction forces out there. Now that my outdoor chores (lawn, a little shrub trimming) are out of the way for today, I should hop on the bike and see if the railroad will cooperate with me. I'm under instructions to leave the computer at home today, though!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Oh, the 'fun' never stops!!! I just lost the brakes on my van!!!!
WMNB4THRTL Oh, the 'fun' never stops!!! I just lost the brakes on my van!!!!
Too many sets and releases?
tree68 WMNB4THRTL: Oh, the 'fun' never stops!!! I just lost the brakes on my van!!!! Too many sets and releases?
WMNB4THRTL: Oh, the 'fun' never stops!!! I just lost the brakes on my van!!!!
Probably. I blew a brake line.
Hey, while web surfing, I came across this interesting little tidbit:
(from KOA website)
For railroad buffs or kids at heart you’ll find meticulously restored cabooses from some of the Nations historic railway lines, such as Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe and Boston & Maine, dotted throughout the KOA system. All aboard!
WOOT!! WOOT!!
Paul_D_North_Jr In the Penn State "Rail Transportation Engineering" program flyer linked above, "C E 310 Surveying" for 3 credits is scheduled in Semester 5, then followed by "RTE 302 RR Track Location, Const, & Maint" for 3 more credits in Semester 6, all of which makes sense to me. zug, integration = "the area under the curve" is pretty fundamental to a lot of engineering, esp. structural and energy-related. Fortunately, it's usually polynomial equations, not logarithmic, trigonometric, exponential, etc. And I don't see Differential Equations there anyplace, so clearly this curriculum is not research-oriented, but more practical - be glad for that ! zug's dilemma illustrates why this situation ought to be a perfect application for learning 'on-line' and/ or via video recordings, etc. (with appropriate safeguards for confirming identity, etc.). A lot could be done by tutorials, with just a 1 or 2 times a month in-person class or meeting with the Prof., and the Prof. and/ or a good Teaching Asst. with scheduled office hours or availability, including nights and weekends, for coaching, tutoring, helping over the rough spots, etc. But I suspect that the accredited universities are justifiably wary of giving up their franchise and claims for high tuition income to cover all the admin. and ivy-covered halls that could be mostly rendered redundant by such a transition . . . I wouldn't mind putting those kinds of courses together if I could find a way to get paid for it . . . Johnny, that's true of me, too - it took another 'go-round' and at a slower pace along with some practical applications to better comprehend some of the more abstract topics. - Paul North.
In the Penn State "Rail Transportation Engineering" program flyer linked above, "C E 310 Surveying" for 3 credits is scheduled in Semester 5, then followed by "RTE 302 RR Track Location, Const, & Maint" for 3 more credits in Semester 6, all of which makes sense to me.
There's so much cool stuff on sites like youtube now. Maybe it was around in my college days - I don't know. If it was, I never thought to use it. And you also touch upon the biggest problem I had (and probably many others) in math classes - the "why". Instead of just memorizing formulas (which unfortunately some of my profs had me do), how about explaining the practicality of the formula?
To me, a bunch of random numbers on a paper are just that. But use real world examples and I can understand it better. My stats professor did that, and I always got all As on his tests.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Paul_D_North_Jr - not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
- not only their technical qualifications, as in Ph.D. vs. grad student or someone w/ lots of experience - but how well they can communicate the material - which again, is in parts - how fluent are they in English, and even if they are - can they still get the concepts across ?
Paul, I think you raise some questions that have had real world consequences in southern Manitoba this past couple of weeks.
There has been major flooding in Manitoba recently, and at Portage la Prairie, MB "experts" in the employ of the Provincial Government determined that it would be necessary to breach a dike at that location to have a "controlled flood". It did work as advertised, but the experts had forecast a flood area of 200 sq. km., and in fact the flooded area turned out to be 3.4 sq. km. Being skilled in the theoretical doesn't always mean you are going to be skilled in the workings of the real world. Needless to say, this upset a lot of people unnecessarily.
In other news, in northern Alberta CN has been able to reopen their Slave Lake Sub., incrementally. I haven't heard of total damage estimates yet, and I haven't heard if they have yet got all the way to Hay River, NWT. As you may have read in the Cafe, I haven't been feeling that great lately, and on Tuesday I didn't read the TRAINS Newswire section at all. I had been watching local media here to get reports on damage to the CN line, when it turns the Newswire folks were all over the situation like white on rice. Kudo's to them.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Bruce, I hope you're feeling a little better these days!
Around here, the Canadian flooding has been somewhat minimalized by what's going on in the lower Mississippi Valley. Although I think that the worst-case scenario should be prepared for, and properly publicized as such, it sounds like those flooding estimates were really off the mark. If people over the larger area were ordered to evacuate, I wouldn't blame them for being upset!
I am a little surprised at the scant coverage given those fires, though, considering that entire towns were burned out.
It's my understanding (though I'm not sure where I got it) that if it weren't for the levees and spillways in northern Louisiana, the Atchafalaya River would now be the normal course of the Mississippi on its way to the Gulf. I wonder if somewhere there aren't plans for larger bridges for the railroads crossing that river, just in case. (Of course, the time to build the stronger bridges would be now!)
Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan) are back in their beds, flowing lazily, However, the grass in our yard is still growing, and the lilac bushes are fading to green--so I guess this isn't Heaven, after all. We're planning on taking our nephew and his bride out for dinner this afternoon, and are hoping that the weather, the lilacs, and the railroad will all cooperate in making this a fun time for everyone.
CShaveRR Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan)
Here in northern Illinois, the streams (tributaries of the Mississippi, in spite of our proximity to Lake Michigan)
http://openwaterchicago.com/2009/11/20/diverting-the-lake-michigan-watershed-a-brief-history-of-the-chicago-canal-system/
Roger that, Jim! We even found a sign on Lake Street in Oak Park indicating the location of the divide. That's closer to Lake Michigan than it is to us. The Des Plaines River (whose source is in Wisconsin) is about two miles west of this sign, and it's definitely Mississippi-bound. Thanks to the man-made modifications of the way things work around here, even the Chicago River is a few feet lower than Lake Michigan...both it and the Little Calumet River, thanks to the canals, would flow out of Lake Michigan and down into the Des Plaines River.
Carl, had a chance to run I55 up from St Louis on Friday, here's an update on the high-speed project.
Concrete ties are in as far as Bloomington-Normal, the P811 was on the north side of town where I55 rejoins for the trip north. Ballasting was going on south of town, saw two ballast trains and a surface crew. The next two passing tracks north of town had concrete tie flats and an empty rail train parked in them. Noticed one of the grain elevator main-track switches I saw was of the concrete tie variety.
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
Thanks for that, Randy--the progress is slow, but steady! Looking forward to observing it myself in a few weeks.
(One minor correction...the big machine is a TRT-909. The P811 is so last decade that BNSF uses it! )
I'm hoping that with the latest grant money from Florida, the work can just keep going beyond Dwight to Joliet. It won't be too successful, though, unless there is a little more second track installed than there has been.
Our trip out for lunch with our nephew was a qualified success...Lilacia Park was past its seasonal prime, but still jaw-dropping and nose-tantalizing. The restaurant I'd wanted to take them to was closed, but Plan B was also good. While we were having dinner, we were treated to the sight of at least four trains and one hailstorm! Fortunately for us, the rain let up when it was time to leave, so we could get back to their car, then (eventually) home.
One of the cars I saw on a westbound manifest this afternoon was WSOR 503149, the Model Railroader 70th-anniversary commemorative RBL. Unfortunately, the graffiti vandals have hit this car fairly extensively.
Thanks for the correction, Carl: It's hard to tell at 66MPH, while watching the road for idiots on four wheels at the same time!!
Link to webpage on the Harsco TRT-909:
http://harscorail.com/products/track-construction-TRT-909.aspx
Link to a page of photos of both a TRT-909 and a BNSF P811:
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/mow24.html
Thought I'd take a break from lurking to ask another signal question.
CN has been "activating" signals on spur tracks and sidings off the main that previously had been "dark" unless occupied. What, if anything does that mean operationally? I know the progress of activating ATCS has been progressing further south from the north end of the Superior Sub...but I don't think it has reached Stevens Point (or the Neenah Sub) yet. Would this have anything to do with that?
CNW 6000 Thought I'd take a break from lurking to ask another signal question. CN has been "activating" signals on spur tracks and sidings off the main that previously had been "dark" unless occupied. What, if anything does that mean operationally? I know the progress of activating ATCS has been progressing further south from the north end of the Superior Sub...but I don't think it has reached Stevens Point (or the Neenah Sub) yet. Would this have anything to do with that?
For us. there is no operational difference between constant lit and approach lit signals.
Well, come off of vacation and I'm bumped. So I get to enjoy another day not at work. Unfortunately it looks like the only choices I have are the extra list or a lousy relief job. It's kind of like picking which eye you want poked. Ugh. So far no call from the TM yelling at me to mark up (like I'd answer if he would call... )
I so do not want to go back to work.
zugmann [snipped] Unfortunately it looks like the only choices I have are the extra list or a lousy relief job. It's kind of like picking which eye you want poked.
And since this is the "Lounge", it's an appropriate place to tell this true little story, about:
"The Differences Between Men and Women" (cont'd):
This past Saturday afternoon, after my wife's class 2-semester class to be a "Sustainable Building Advisor" at a local community college completed their presentations, received their "Certificates of Completion", and had a catered lunch, at the suggestion of the lead instructor we all adjoined to a local 'roadhouse' for a beer and further "socialization". It was all put on a common tab, and after about a convivial hour everyone decided to head out and chipped in towards the bill. The instructor got the check, looked at it, counted the money, and then said:
"We've got a little problem here. This tab is for $29 and change - maybe $35 with the tip - but . . .
[wait for it]
. . .
. . . you all gave me $98 !"
Well, there was quite a difference between the 'country price' in Upper Bucks Co. and the 'city price' (Philly) for some of those beers !
Maybe "relief" isn't the proper term, but it is what I (and some others) use. The job isn't technically "relieving" anyone in the traditional sense, but anyhow:
A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs. For example, a regular 2nd shift yard job may work Thurs-Monday @ 2pm. It's rest days are Tuesday and Wednesday. So a relief job will work 2pm Tuesday and Wednesday to cover the work that needs done. Then it may have 2 days off, then maybe works 7am Sat and Sun to cover the rest days for the regular first shift M-F yard job. Unlike the extra list, a relief job has regular start times and days off. But the starting times can be varied throughout the week. and ( for us) they usually manage to arrange it to screw you on your days off - making you work 2nd or 3rd shift before your rest days, then 1st shift after. So you end up "losing" 8-16 hours off time.
Well, you don't really lose it, but you don't get it. Always been a pet peeve of mine out here. Your rest time is shorter than all the other regualr jobs.
Long term absences are covered by the extra list, but usually end up being put up for bid so anyone can grab it. Vacations are the same way - anyone in the terminal can bid it, no matter what their current assignment is. Again, local contracts vary, and none of them make much sense...
So, did you re-do the math, or make some bartender very happy??
Your relief-job terminology was accurate for my experience, too, Zug. I was on a job that worked one day, two afternoons, and two nights every week...made for lousy sleep and a short weekend.
As for your question, Dan, there probably is no real operational reason for lighting these signals, just the railroad's preference. Given CN's history of signal problems over the past 20 or more years (not necessarily connected with WC), I'd suggest that they're thinking that a lighted signal is easier to see a failure on than a dark one. (I should explain that IC is the CN predecessor that had lots of problems with false clears and other defects.)
zugmann A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs.
A relief job (at least for us - your RR may vary) is a regular job that covers the "rest days" (off days) for regular jobs.
This brings up a difference in terminology I have noticed since I started reading TRAINS regularly in 2005. In Canada, what you describe above would be called a swing shift job or a swing shift if you were in a hurry. In what I have read, in the US a swing shift seems to be what would be a 1600-23:59 job or a 2nd Trick shift.
And yes, my Dad used to complain about losing part of one day off for sleeping when he had to work swing jobs. But, he did have one job for a while where he worked a 3rd Trick dispatching job followed by a 2nd trick job in the same calendar day. He then got 3 calendar days off each week. After he got home from the 3rd Trick job he would say he had to "sleep fast" before he went back to word at 16:00.
With these new "hours of work" laws I'm not even sure a thing like that is even possible for someone like yourself who is in a running trade. We will have to wait for Carl and see if it would still be possible for a non-op to do it.
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