Railfan to Railroader

[ericsp]

I have been considering going to work for UP. I was talking to a conductor regarding this. He said that there was a railfan in his class who aced the classroom portion. However, onece he started work he (the railfan) decided he hated the job and quit. Does anyone have any idea how often this happen? If you have heard of a such thing, what were the reasons given as to why he hated the job?

[MP57313]

A friend of mine worked for C&NW many years ago. He liked the pay, but hated the hours; sometimes worked 7 days a week, but not the same hours each day. After he was able to get back on his feet financially he left. Was not able to plan any kind of life outside of work.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

A friend of mine worked for C&NW many years ago. He liked the pay, but hated the hours; sometimes worked 7 days a week, but not the same hours each day. After he was able to get back on his feet financially he left. Was not able to plan any kind of life outside of work.

I have heard about things such as that. Fresno is not a place people like to transfer into (every from UP that I have talked to has told me this). Therefore I am hopping that with UP expanding and some of the guys who work locals getting ready to retire that I can get on doing yard or local work. I hear that the pay is not as good for local or yard work. UP is advertising up tp $40,000 per year the first year (i am assuming this is for road work). Does anyone know what the pay is for local and yard work?

Would I be correct in assuming that your friend is a railfan?

[MP57313]

My friend is not really a railfan, but he is a photographer. He has a greater interest in trains compared to Joe Public but I don't think he'd ever work for a RR again. The 9-to-5 office drill is one dimentional but you can plan/predict your life! By chance he works right next to a BNSF bridge on the Harbor Subdivision.

The local paper (I live 20 miles south of L.A.) advertised jobs for UP several months back. It was for working on freight cars being switched "any hour, any day, any weather". I don't recall if it mentioned the pay.

[Anonymous]

I was talking to a BNSF conductor today that was waiting for a train further up the line to get to a siding and he was trying to talk me into applying for BNSF or UP. He was saying, and I have heard this, that both are looking for thousands of new hires. This would be an interesting proposition, however, I just graduated from college with a undergraduate degree in architectire and should be looking for an internship for the year until I go to grad school. But with the current economic situation, this is still a somewhat appealing idea, even if it is just for a year.

On a side note, I would like to thank both Dave and Frank on that train for being so nice, talking to me and answering all of my questions that I have had about that line. So if you guys are out there, thanks!!

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

The local paper (I live 20 miles south of L.A.) advertised jobs for UP several months back. It was for working on freight cars being switched "any hour, any day, any weather". I don't recall if it mentioned the pay.

The advertisement in Fresno says the same thing. However, I have been talking to local crews (as well as mainline crews) and the Senior MTO here. Local and yard crews do have a set schedule. I drive by a UP Yard frequently and have noticed the the locals usually leave about the same time every day. Of course other than the fact a crew cannot work for more than 12 hours, I guess it is up in the air when the local crew will return to the yard. Here locals work 6 days per week and up to 12 hours. The senior MTO said that the yard crews usually work 5 days per week with an 8 hour shift. Not bad.

[csxengineer98]

one of the biggest problem with rail fans that turn to a job on the rail roads is the "i think i know how the rail road works becouse i stood track side for years and listened to the radio communications on a scanner"... when in reality... thier is alot that goes into a rail road job that most fans ever see... the behind closed doors so to speak stuff... such as paper work preporation... job breffings..and so on....... seeing a train on the high iron of the open road is only a very small aspect of the job......
also...just becouse you know what model year a loco is donsnt realy translate into much usefullness on the rail road.... knowing a model of a locomotive is importain in figering out your power to ton ratios..and knowing how many axels you have in dynmamic brake.... but it isnt importatant when its on someone elses train..... you have to keep focused on the job at hand..and not be side tracked and want to run for the camarea becouse a "rare" engin is rolling by on another track...
so basicly what im saying is...
to be a rail fan and work for the rail road is ok...as long as you leave the fan part of it in the parking lot when you show up for your tour of duty!
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

The local paper (I live 20 miles south of L.A.) advertised jobs for UP several months back. It was for working on freight cars being switched "any hour, any day, any weather". I don't recall if it mentioned the pay.

The advertisement in Fresno says the same thing. However, I have been talking to local crews (as well as mainline crews) and the Senior MTO here. Local and yard crews do have a set schedule. I drive by UP's Fresno Yard every day on my way to work and have noticed the the locals usually leave about the same time every day. Of course other than the fact a crew cannot work for more than 12 hours, I guess it is up in the air when the local crew will return to the yard. Here locals work 6 days per week and up to 12 hours. The senior MTO said that the yard crews usually work 5 days per week with an 8 hour shift. Not bad.

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!!!

If you hire out you won't have the luxury of picking your job. There is a reason the old guys on the local and yard jobs are retiring. It is called seniority. How do you think they got those jobs instead of being out on the road?? Seniority allows them to hold jobs with regular hours. Many old heads prefer locals as they get to keep regular work hours and sleep at home more often.

You will be at the very bottom of the roster when you hire out. After your training you will be lucky to hold the extra board which means you will be called by a crew caller and assigned to any train or other T&E work anywhere in your seniority district. The caller may call you at any time of day or night 24/7 365 days a year. After some time passes and you move up the roster you may be able to hold some better jobs such as road pools or even an occasional local or yard job, but that may not happen for years. Don't plan on getting a nice RR job close to home.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

I have been considering going to work for UP. I was talking to a conductor regarding this. He said that there was a railfan in his class who aced the classroom portion. However, onece he started work he (the railfan) decided he hated the job and quit. Does anyone have any idea how often this happen? If you have heard of a such thing, what were the reasons given as to why he hated the job?

This happens frequently. Railfans who study the rulebooks and have some knowledge of operations can often get through the classes (which are designed to pass people, not fail them unless they do nothing or have serious issues) but once out on the property they discover that the daily life of a railroader is gritty dirty hard and often dangerous. If you stick with it there can be other compensations. Nothing is better than a nice train trip over the mountain into the sunrise heading to the home terminal. Working through LETS (Engineer School-much harder than trainman's class) and being promoted engineer after eight qweeks of torture (and 6 months OJT) is a rush. There are also the detector walks in the pouring rain or wading through the hip deep snow for a kicker or some idiot reporting dragging equipment when nothing is wrong. There's derailments big and small, moments when your heart is in your throat with a propane truck going around the gates in front of you (or a school bus).

People from outside including most railfans have no idea what it's like to mark off sick for the birth of a child, or answer the phone at 0300 and have it be the crew caller saying " R.W. Smith(insert your name here) you are called for the FNLA12 as conductor, your Engineer is F.J. Gump, call time is 0430." Dragging yourself out of bed quickly showering, throwing your work clothes on grabbing your grip, your lunch out of the fridge (or making one) and stumbling to your car for the hour plus drive to the terminal. Don't be late. Of course, once you get there the fun begins. Very few of us are "Mr. Personality" at 0430. This includes everyone you will need to work with, your Engineer, the DS, yardmaster, trainmaster, etc. And that's just the beginning.

LC

[Randy Stahl]

I give preferential consideration to RR fans when it comes to hiring. Not everyone can handle the job but it has made a good living for many familys over the years. I am proud of our heritage and do my best to carry the legacy. I encourage you to apply for a RR job,Ifyou don't like the work many other departments are looking for good help as well, I transferred from train service to the mechanical department and have no regrets,but sometimes it takes that foot in the door.
To the collage grad with a degree in architecture, there are good jobs in the RR for you too.
Randy

[Anonymous]

After reading my above two posts, again, and calming down a bit...

1. Railfans don't understand what it really takes from you to be a railroader until they try it. I worked at office jobs (yes, I am a licensed professional, although you'd never know that from my typing) and at a tourist line prior to hiring out on a Class 1. There is no comparison to either of those jobs.

2. Because they don't listen or pay attention to the downside or perhaps just don't believe it (there are many things I encounter that are very different from my expectations) many people (railfan or not) who hire out on the RR find that it is too much for them in one or more of several dimensions (hours, time away from home, pressures, physical issues, mental issues, and responsibilities and others) and quit..

3. On seniority. Remember that UP would love to have you come and work for them. They are trying to hire over 4,000 people in the next few years. UP has already hired over 1,400 this year. So even if you hired out today there would be 1,400+ people ahead of you on the roster from this year's hiring alone. RRs typically overhire saying that turnover of 30% annually means they need to. The problem with that comes when they overhire and traffic slows as it always does after Christmas. In other words start a Christmas Club the day you get hired because you may be cut off after Christmas due to lack of work. Remember you will be the tail of the dog for a while. Look at my advice under Shrek's thread about being a new Conductor Trainee. Don't run out and buy that new pickup, trailer and his and hers jet skis just because you have this great new high paying RR job. If you are cut off you can't make the payments.

4. RRs are CYA places. Watch your back keep your mouth shut and your ears open. You can learn a LOT that way. Your life will likely depend on it. Remember, that nice BNSF Condutor who wants you to hire out is hoping you will, not because it will be good for you or because he wants you to work with him, he knows it is in his interest to get more people on board soon. With current manpower shortages the guys out there are likely working 7 days a week. He'd like to take his vacation too. For him to make deer season this year he needs you hired on ASAP.

LC

[Anonymous]

Shrek's thread is "Conductor Trainee here I come"

LC

[ericsp]

Judging from the posts it sounds like it might be better to go to work for San Joaquin Valley Railroad (a shortline) than to go to work for a class 1. What to you think?

[Anonymous]

If you decide to go to work with a class 1 RR, you'll be better off to go to work at a car shop or a locomotive shop. After working at the Roseville Locomotive Facility, I always knew what my hours were. I also became a locomotive mover at the service track. I was able to operate every type of loco in the UP system. They're almost always looking for machinists, electricians and labors, all of whom can be qualified as movers. And you get to sleep in your own bed every night.

The operating dept. ( i.e. engineers and conductors ) is pretty tough when your first getting started.

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!!!

If you hire out you won't have the luxury of picking your job. There is a reason the old guys on the local and yard jobs are retiring. It is called seniority. How do you think they got those jobs instead of being out on the road?? Seniority allows them to hold jobs with regular hours. Many old heads prefer locals as they get to keep regular work hours and sleep at home more often.

You will be at the very bottom of the roster when you hire out. After your training you will be lucky to hold the extra board which means you will be called by a crew caller and assigned to any train or other T&E work anywhere in your seniority district. The caller may call you at any time of day or night 24/7 365 days a year. After some time passes and you move up the roster you may be able to hold some better jobs such as road pools or even an occasional local or yard job, but that may not happen for years. Don't plan on getting a nice RR job close to home.

LC

I have noticed that some of the guys operating the yard switchers and locals look like they are probably in there 20s while others are look older (I did talk to one who said he is retiring in 4 years). What do you think?

[csxengineer98]

epic..
i am only 28 years old..and im on a reguler yard job... but i also hired out at a very good time... their are only a handfull of people older then me in senority when csx started to hire for the conrail takeover... also in the next few years we are going to have a major exiduse of "old heads" conductors mostly..but a hand full of engineers in my area...
it all comes down to when you get on the roster...the sooner the better.... evey day that you put off getting on the rail road... is one more day that someone else is older then you in senority... and 1 trun older or younger can mean the differnce in you working or geting layed off....
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Personally, I've done the class 1 thing for six years as an engr on the CCP/IC, and can say the experience was worthwhile, but got sick and tired of the hours, being away from home in hotels, layovers, getting cut off the board, bumped to another board 100-plus miles from home, it got to be where I was starting to HATE my job, despite my railfan interest.

Have worked for a shortline the last 5 years and LOVE it--regular hours, weekends off and I can have a life too!! It's a tradeoff you have to decide for yourself--a little more money, but a lot more headaches.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp


The advertisement in Fresno says the same thing. However, I have been talking to local crews (as well as mainline crews) and the Senior MTO here. Local and yard crews do have a set schedule. I drive by UP's Fresno Yard every day on my way to work and have noticed the the locals usually leave about the same time every day. Of course other than the fact a crew cannot work for more than 12 hours, I guess it is up in the air when the local crew will return to the yard. Here locals work 6 days per week and up to 12 hours. The senior MTO said that the yard crews usually work 5 days per week with an 8 hour shift. Not bad.

DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!!!

If you hire out you won't have the luxury of picking your job. There is a reason the old guys on the local and yard jobs are retiring. It is called seniority. How do you think they got those jobs instead of being out on the road?? Seniority allows them to hold jobs with regular hours. Many old heads prefer locals as they get to keep regular work hours and sleep at home more often.

You will be at the very bottom of the roster when you hire out. After your training you will be lucky to hold the extra board which means you will be called by a crew caller and assigned to any train or other T&E work anywhere in your seniority district. The caller may call you at any time of day or night 24/7 365 days a year. After some time passes and you move up the roster you may be able to hold some better jobs such as road pools or even an occasional local or yard job, but that may not happen for years. Don't plan on getting a nice RR job close to home.

LC

I have noticed that some of the guys operating the yard switchers and locals look like they are probably in there 20s while others are look older (I did talk to one who said he is retiring in 4 years). What do you think?

As CSX Engineer states and as I mentioned above, it is all in the senority. If those guys started at 18 and are now in their mid twenties they have been at it at least 6 or 7 years. With that kind of seniority they may be able to hold those jobs. Also, with crew shortages and everyone working extra the crews you are seeing may be drawn from the Extra List as well.

LC

[Anonymous]

All of these job conditions sound much like when I was in the Navy; away from home, long hours, no sleep, no days off.... I had purple rings under my eyes. When you're young and single it is all an adventure, even though you are tired, you see and do things that make it worthwhile. Maybe some of the things you appreciate, a normal person just wouldn't understand. I think its the same kind of person that becomes a pilot, or a merchant marine.

[ericsp]

Thanks for the help.

Any idea on questions that I should ask?

[Anonymous]

ericsp,

Everyone has brought up just about all the points you need to consider. I just started my RR career and I'm working the extraboard most of the time. Occasionally, I sharp shoot and look for vacancies on the Freight Pool, or Piggy Back Pools that the top seniority people hold. Usually if there is an opening it is on a weekend and I'll jump on the spot hoping to get bumped so I can have 48 hours to mark back up. But, when things get tight and there are no vacancies, I'll have to live with working the extraboard and just taking what is given to me. Right now, I just stay on the extraboard and I am usually working 5-6 days a week pulling in about $2,300 a half. A big help is overtime, and I work in one of the most overtime friendly places, taking trains into and out of the Chicago Terminal District. Now, working on a shortline, which a friend of mine does, he works 6am to about 2pm daily, no weekends and is home every night. He makes a salary of about 42k a year. If I keep working like I do... I'd pull in close to 60k a year. So, it all depends on what is important to you. Everyone's situation is a little different. I have a baby on the way, so I'm sure I'll want more time off once I have an infant at home with a wife in veterinary school. Luckily, we have mother-in-law to help us there.

I'm not sure what you mean by Questions you should ask....

I'll just interpret it the two ways i'm thinking.

One: Questions you should ask yourself..... Am I ready for a complete lifestyle change? The railroad will control how you live your life and you'll have to adapt everything to it.
Am I ready to sit on a train at 3am fighting sleep trying to keep my engineer awake as well as myself? I often have to wake up my dozing engineer to alert him to signal changes and to blow at crossings.
Am I ready to sweat my @$$ off as well as turn into a popsicle? Fighting the elements is always a treat. Once I worked ten hours in a non-stop downpour with thunder crashing around me and lightning making my hair stand on end.
Do you have a spouse/significant other who is understanding? This is one of the major questions to ask yourself. My wife is so busy herself and works on call as well, so she is very understanding. We often joke about who will take care of our kids, since neither one of us wants to give up work hours. But, there are many wives who get lonely and things happen.... let's just say that most railroaders are on their second or third wife.
I don't want to make RR'ing sound terrible, I love my job, but many people think that it's one thing and then end up hating it.

If you are intested in hiring out... consult people on this forum and call around and ask. Get used to asking lots of questions if you want to be a railroader, it's the only way you'll learn!!!
Good luck in whatever you do.

I know I plan to have a regular schedule one day by moving up the ranks. My college degree should come in handy in becoming an official, but I'd rather Dispatch. Only time will tell.

[OldArmy94]

I have a friend who was a railfan turned railroader. Unfortunately, he was seriously injured on the job and is now permanently disabled. He DID receive an extremely large compensation package but that will never replace a lost limb. I don't know if he'd do it all over again..I doubt it, truthfully. Just BE CAREFUL!! It's very dangerous work. I have known of too many people that ended up getting hurt to pursue it as a career option so I'll just stay a railfan.

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by OldArmy94

I have a friend who was a railfan turned railroader. Unfortunately, he was seriously injured on the job and is now permanently disabled. He DID receive an extremely large compensation package but that will never replace a lost limb. I don't know if he'd do it all over again..I doubt it, truthfully. Just BE CAREFUL!! It's very dangerous work. I have known of too many people that ended up getting hurt to pursue it as a career option so I'll just stay a railfan.

yes it can be a very dangerous job....that is why you have to stay focused 100% of the time while on duty... that is why i said in a previouse posting....you have to leave the rail fan part of you in your car in the parking lot when you report for duty...... in many yards thier are trains moveing all over the place...and taking your mind off of your job for 1 second becouse you saw some intersting car or engin can cause a derailment..or worse yet... a major injury or death......the is a job..not a joy ride on a train... when you get hired on...they pay you to work....not to rail fan....
also alot of rail roaders dont like rail fans for any number of reasons... mostly becoues when they hire out..they act like they know eveything already....one way to get a bad name for yourself right off the bat is to walk onto the proporty and put on the additude that you know it all like a someone that has been doing it for 30 years...alot of old heads will wa***hier hands of you and not teach you a thing becouse of this kind of attitude..... they think like..."well he knows it all..he dont need my help"....... and the people that have been working for years have alot of knowage to share...if you keep an open mind and ask alot of questions...rail roaders are not made in a classroom..or born..it takes years of experiance to become a good engineer or conductor... we are made in the field working the job...
and i said it befor..and i say it to all the condutor trainees that show up on the jobs i work...
IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO..OR DONT UNDERSTAND SOMETHING....DO NOT DO IT...STOP AND ASK FOR HELP...BE IT A DISPATCHER..THE ENGINEER..YARD MASTER.... ANOTHER CREWMAN... OR EVEN A BOSS....they will not fire you for asking for help...they will fire you in a heart beat if you take it apon yourself to do something that you dont understand...and you screw up... the first thing they will ask you is....did you understand the instructions ...and if not..why didnt you ask for help!!! remember that when your on your own...its just you and the engineer...they fire in sets of 2s on the rail road.... if you screw up...most of the time the engineer goes down with you..and vicea versa... and with that fact in mind..im not going to let a conductor get me in troble if i can help it...if that means that i have to get down on the ground and walk the route with the conductor to help him get the switches lined up proper..so be it... its joint responsibity..and when your on the train..its a team...
but if you have questions...feel free to email me
my address is ..........and no comments from the peanut gallery but my email address..lol
[e-mail]
the rail road is a job... it is work...it dose suck alot of times..but it beats the hell out of sitting in an office..or a factory all day... evey train is differnt..you work with someone differnt just about evey trip... no run is ever the same even thow it might be the same rail road you run on day in and day out...
csx engineer out

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98


my address is ..........and no comments from the peanut gallery but my email address..lol
SEXTRAVAGANZA1@.......

Hehehehehehehehehe!
Hahahahahahahahaha!
[:D]

[Anonymous]

That's quite an address...

LC

[Anonymous]

LOL..nice email address [:D]

[ericsp]

I once had an UP engineer ranting to me about how filthy the cabs were in the locomotives. He was saying that they do not empty the toilets nearly as often as they should and they would overflow. He said this is common, at least out of Roseville, CA. Has anyone heard anything like that?

[mvlandsw]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

I once had an UP engineer ranting to me about how filthy the cabs were in the locomotives. He was saying that they do not empty the toilets nearly as often as they should and they would overflow. He said this is common, at least out of Roseville, CA. Has anyone heard anything like that?

Very common.

[daveklepper]

If you try it and like it you will stay and dispite any minor setbacks, things will steadily improve for you. If you don't like it you will leave, and nothing really will be lost, because your hobby will be more meaningful. And if you don't try, you will never know! So I suggest you try! If you can find Doug Riddell's book FROM THE CAB, it is a very useful suplement to comments on this web.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

I once had an UP engineer ranting to me about how filthy the cabs were in the locomotives. He was saying that they do not empty the toilets nearly as often as they should and they would overflow. He said this is common, at least out of Roseville, CA. Has anyone heard anything like that?

Very common. Worse in the summer. Some smell so bad I and others have refused locomotives for this reason.

LC