AgentKid [snip] . . . what I did find shows these cars had an inside length of 22.5' and a cu. ft. capacity of 2300 compared to the 19' 1-1/8" inside length and 1150 cu. ft. of the ARI car Dan mentioned. The CN cars were as tall or taller than the boxcars of that era, 1967-98. But I can't find the weight capacity. Bruce
Bruce
You all catch that ? Those old CN cars have twice the cu. ft. capacity of the new ARI cars ! Despite the seeming similarily of the inside length dimensions, the older cars are much higher and have a longer bottom length - that's where the additional volume comes from. But why? What did they do with it ?
The ARI cars have a Load Limit of 175,000 lbs. (220,000 lbs. gross - 45,000 lbs. est. empty weight), so the max. density for a level load of 1,150 cu. ft. would be about 152 lbs. per cu. ft.,; divide by 62.4 lbs. per cu. ft. for water to get a bulk Specific Gravity of about 2.44. The same process for the old cars would yield about 76 lbs. per cu. ft. or an SG of 1.22. So either the intended material was pretty light, or else there was a lot of excess/ wasted space in those old cars . . .
- Paul North.
Thanks, Dan; much appreciated! I am, indeed, broken for sure, so the doc says. He put me in a cast boot from toes to knee, so that'll be fun for at least 6-8 weeks!! Hey, at least it's winter, which can be good or bad, but...
At least I made it to calling hours and got a nice surprise of an invite to the church luncheon today to 'boot,' complete with awesome live music!!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
Well thanks to the CN Special Interest Group I was able to find a picture of the CN ore cars I mentioned earlier.
http://cnlines.ca/CNcyclopedia/flat/img_345091.jpg
I couldn't find all the dimensions, but what I did find shows these cars had an inside length of 22.5' and a cu. ft. capacity of 2300 compared to the 19' 1-1/8" inside length and 1150 cu. ft. of the ARI car Dan mentioned. The CN cars were as tall or taller than the boxcars of that era, 1967-98. But I can't find the weight capacity.
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
It wasn't easy, but the taxes got done. I don't think our driveway is worth shoveling off, so I'll just get back to the old freight-car files. Started a new old scratch-pad last night, after taking a little over a week to do the previous one. From the looks of things, I'll be a little busier on this one! I've already had some surprises.
A brief trip out today revealed track workers in the vicinity of the crossovers, but no movement in the stacked-switch piles.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR. Johnny, Charlotte's the big mystery part of this trip. We're planning on staying at my sister's place (with her blessing), but they haven't even moved there yet! We don't know where this place is yet, or what we can do while we're down there (two nights and the intervening day), but I'm sure we'll get to see some interesting sights. This will be our first meaningful trip to North Carolina (we went a short distance into the state over 30 years ago). We may make our first foray ever into South Carolina, since Charlotte is that close to the border.
Johnny, Charlotte's the big mystery part of this trip. We're planning on staying at my sister's place (with her blessing), but they haven't even moved there yet! We don't know where this place is yet, or what we can do while we're down there (two nights and the intervening day), but I'm sure we'll get to see some interesting sights. This will be our first meaningful trip to North Carolina (we went a short distance into the state over 30 years ago). We may make our first foray ever into South Carolina, since Charlotte is that close to the border.
Good traveling.
Johnny
CNW 6000 Not enough information you say? Ok. Here's the specs on the ARI jenny, couldn't find the NSC specs.http://www.americanrailcar.com/pdf/RailcarManufacturing/SP-Ore1150cu-ft.pdf
Not enough information you say? Ok. Here's the specs on the ARI jenny, couldn't find the NSC specs.http://www.americanrailcar.com/pdf/RailcarManufacturing/SP-Ore1150cu-ft.pdf
Dan, thanks for that. If you remember from a while back I mentioned how I would like to compare these ore cars with the ones CN had 40 years ago to carry ore from the Pine Point Mine in the Northwest Territories down to Trail, BC.
I am having trouble finding a good picture of those cars with their dimensions, on the net, so I am going to have to go through my books. If anything significant turns up, I will report back.
That ARI logo (in blue, centered along the bottom of the side) was hard to see. Thanks for that, Dan!
I noticed, from the specs, that these are not very revolutionary cars, after all. They're still 220K gross rail load--basically 70-ton cars. Wheels, axles, and bearings being supplied by CN. Cars don't meet the requirements for axle spacing. I'd have to assume that they are being kept this small for reasons of adapting to the ore docks or something like that.
I also noticed that the NSC-built car has a shoe on the side to be tripped for automatic dumping, while the ARI car does not. (And there is the explanation for the second air hose on these cars!)
__________________
Now that the planning is done for the trip, we're looking at funding. Today will be set aside for income-tax preparation. It's going to be very hard to remain calm and collected for more than a month with a trip like this coming up.
A little catchup here...
I hope Mr. Yuhas' procedure went well. I've been keeping him and his family & friends in my thoughts.
Nance-you gotta be careful! I hope you heal and recover as quickly as you can.
Q-Happy (late) Birthday. I hope Jean's recovery goes well also.
Carl-That trip sounds like fun. I hope you make it a good one. I hope you and Pat can keep each other out of trouble...
CShaveRR Like I said, Dan...don't make me come up there! The numbers of the ore cars now go up as high as 71203. I forgot what I said the end point was earlier, but there have obviously been at least 500 added. I don't see the National Steel Car decals on these, so it's possible that someone else built them. Nice down-on view, by the way.
Like I said, Dan...don't make me come up there!
The numbers of the ore cars now go up as high as 71203. I forgot what I said the end point was earlier, but there have obviously been at least 500 added. I don't see the National Steel Car decals on these, so it's possible that someone else built them. Nice down-on view, by the way.
Getting back to this...those cars are made by ARI or American Railcar Industries. We had 3 ore trains over the last three days and one I managed to catch a neat shot illustrating the two slightly different cars:
On the left is the NSC (National Steel Car) jenny and the right is the ARI (American Railcar Industries) jenny. There was a cut of about 5 or 6 ARI jennies in the otherwise all NSC train.
Dan
CShaveRR We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks.
Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
Thanks so much for the good wishes, Quentin. I really appreciate them. Take good care.
CShaveRR We'll have to return sometime, Quentin! I know you've mentioned a trackside place before; are these near the tracks? We got to the store and back with no problems. The precipitation is being surreptitious at the present time--you don't see it falling, but the evidence is there in places: crunchy sidewalks, a bit of white in protected areas. We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. We decided that the Hotel Roanoke was a little too pricey for us (even if their railfan special discount were in effect--it is scheduled to expire on March 1), so we're outside of town there, but still within walking distance of the old N&W main line to the west. Roanoke will be our crash-site when we're doing the work at the C&OHS Archives in Clifton Forge. Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
We'll have to return sometime, Quentin! I know you've mentioned a trackside place before; are these near the tracks?
We got to the store and back with no problems. The precipitation is being surreptitious at the present time--you don't see it falling, but the evidence is there in places: crunchy sidewalks, a bit of white in protected areas.
We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. We decided that the Hotel Roanoke was a little too pricey for us (even if their railfan special discount were in effect--it is scheduled to expire on March 1), so we're outside of town there, but still within walking distance of the old N&W main line to the west. Roanoke will be our crash-site when we're doing the work at the C&OHS Archives in Clifton Forge.
Carl.....You're thinking of Bruner's restaurant that faces rt. 32....{You drove along that route when we met several years ago as you drove out of town to the west, and the CSX double tracks on your left. Bruner's is along that route, as you come out the west side of Muncie.
Ironically, Olive Garden is right next to a former rail line...{That had Amtrack on it at one time}...The former C&O....and now our Trail....The same one you were next to at the restored station here.
Your itinerary sounds good to check out several RR areas....Believe that Holiday Inn Hotel is right on the Sand Patch line of CSX. And of course you can set on the porch at the Station Inn and observe.
Quentin
WMNB4THRTL Happy Birthday, Quentin!! I hope you and Jean are healing nicely! Take good care, hope you really enjoyed your lunch. I'm still nursing my broken (we presume) toe(s)/foot; hope to make it in tom. for x-rays, before moving on to calling hours for my best friend Judy's brother, Bob's calling hours. Sure would be nice if the weather would be kind of nice to me for Tues. Back to resting, as the pain med. isn't very nice to me, either.
Happy Birthday, Quentin!! I hope you and Jean are healing nicely! Take good care, hope you really enjoyed your lunch.
I'm still nursing my broken (we presume) toe(s)/foot; hope to make it in tom. for x-rays, before moving on to calling hours for my best friend Judy's brother, Bob's calling hours. Sure would be nice if the weather would be kind of nice to me for Tues. Back to resting, as the pain med. isn't very nice to me, either.
Thank you for the good birthday wishes. We did fine. Food was good at our Olive Garden but the weather tried to put a bit of ice on the trees this afternoon....but fortunately, it turned to big wet snow flakes and stopped the ice, but not much fell....Just made the ground white.
Sounds like you need some good wishes of healing and and better weather to see your friend at calling hours....Good luck. Wife Jean has her left arm in a cast from falling on the ice several weeks ago and breaking some bones in her wrist. She seems to be doing ok. Several more weeks in the cast if all goes well.
[quot
I suppose when it comes right down to it, nothing replaces dumb luck.
[/quote]
You are indeed correct.
I have been waiting for several years for someone else to mention it, but I guess I will. There was a serious incident near Hinton, AB (not the infamous head on crash) involving a grade crossing crash. It involved a WB "Canadian" hitting a logging truck. This happened only a couple of weeks after that famous commuter train crash in California caused by that fellow trying to commit suicide by parking his SUV on the tracks.
The aerial photo's were amazingly similar, yet unlike the California tragedy not one fatality occurred and there were only a few minor injuries. Sometimes there is no good explanation.
No, there aren't any guarantees - but engineering and sensible precautions can sure improve the odds. For instance:
See this great photo linked below (not mine) of the underside of an anti-climber on New York & Atlantic Railway GP38-2 No. 268 from January 2007 at: https://picasaweb.google.com/alsrelics/NYAR268#
https://picasaweb.google.com/alsrelics/NYAR268#5196234915542315842
CShaveRR I haven't looked at it lately, but that video of the UP train derailed by the tornado...I think it could have ended very differently if the tank car had hit the locomotive not equipped with an anticlimber. The way the tank was bouncing, had the coupler come in contact above the engine's coupler (anywhere on the unit) it could have continued up and into the nose, and who knows how much further, since it was a load with a lot of train behind it.
I haven't looked at it lately, but that video of the UP train derailed by the tornado...I think it could have ended very differently if the tank car had hit the locomotive not equipped with an anticlimber. The way the tank was bouncing, had the coupler come in contact above the engine's coupler (anywhere on the unit) it could have continued up and into the nose, and who knows how much further, since it was a load with a lot of train behind it.
Maybe it didn't climb over was because it was a load. Some years back, when the UP was sending stack trains down what was then the IMRL, an IMRL crew that had just taken over and running at 17 mph rear ended a BNSF local within yard limits at Clinton on the IMRL. The rear car was an empty tank and it rode up, went thru the nose into the cab. Both the engr and condr were killed. It was speculated that had that rear car been loaded, the weight would've kept it from riding up over the front of the engine.
Jeff
Thanks Carl....Hope your trip {walking}, to the store is successful & safe...That ice and snow....sorry you got more, we luckily missed that latest that went by this weekend...it stayed north of us.
Birthday lunch: My choice, so I selected Olive Garden for us to visit a little later for lunch. Mine must be Spaghetti with meat sause {anglehair}, and dry bread sticks...with butter, not garlic....and their house salad. It's one of Jean's favorite spots too, so that will work out just fine.
If you and Pat make it back to Muncie in near future, and you both like O Gs food, it's a nice place to go here in Muncie....But right next to it are Texas Road House & Red Lobster, so we've got choices.
Trackside report:
Had to accompany wife to Hunington, Wva area to visit her sick mother. Home near NS so a report of various observations in no particular order.
1. Almost All loaded and empty coal trains have a NS unit leading and a leaser trailiing the consists.
2. Coal trains are running slower and are regularly being passed on the double track west of Kenova. This double track has been upgraded to bi-directional CTC signaling over the years from current of traffic rules with controlled CPs and running against current of traffic..
3. Several days there has been 3 double stackers each way with approximately 80 -100 wells.
4. NS installed a land line/RCL control removing the code line and power line at an interlocking with new signals but did not upgrade the control boxes.
5. This interlorlocking is very interesting.
A. Signals are about 1600 ft apart. Both west bound signals are 3 head and east bound 2 head.
B. 2 separate gate ccrosing auto roads then inside the signals.
C. The full set of crossovers are inside the auto roads.
D. a controlled siding switch is at the middle of the crossovers accessible only from north track.
E. The siding has not one but 2 separqate dwarf signals; one at switch then protected by a interlocked split rail derail and a second dwarf inside of the factory gate.
F. factory is being talked about to become an ethonol plant.
G. The factory gate appears to have a dispatcher controlled opening and closing motor ability based on wiring to gate from a bungalow.
H. Factory appears to have about 5 miles of track inside of gate.
I. There are 2 signal bungalos at each of the signal heads, 2 small crossing bungalos at each road. another bungalo at each pair of crossovers and 1 at siding switch.
J. a further bungalo appears to be control for propane switch heaters.
K. a new bungalo (only new one at interlocking) for the RCL/land line control.
L. There is so much wiring both above and below ground and I would estimate at least 100 pairs in some places going bungalow - bungalow.
m. I can only imagine the engineering and work to upgrade this interlocking to a modern electronic system (RWM?)
6. CSX is busy too and I spoke to a CSX engineer and got some information
6. They are running short of conductors out of Rusell.
7. Definitely prefer AC locos to DC.
8. CSX had a parked NS empty coal train in Hunington.
9. GE is supervising work on their locos at russell.
10. DPU is comming to the CSX Rusell area as soon as GE can install equipment on enough locos and some reception issues are resolved.
11. Operating crews expecting a lot more coal traaffic.
Going to be a miserable one outside today--freezing rain, followed by several inches of snow overnight. We're going to walk or slide our way to the store in a few minutes, then we'll be content to stay in until sometime tomorrow.
Happy birthday to Quentin! Hope you and Jean can get out and enjoy the day. Good health to you for the coming year!
.....Those are very ugly wrecks...! And fatilities would have been present if not for the crews jumping. Fuel tanks ending up near the cab.....and plenty of scraping and or electrical to start the fire....
Thanks for the info fellows. And I can see how that might very well prevent something heavy, such as a truck from elevating up at the cab....perhaps being "caught" by the "lip" on the steel extension. As well as maybe catching on a coupler.
Always handy to have a bulldozer in your back pocket...
While most of our line south of Thendara is fairly close to roads, there are many sections between Thendara and Tupper Lake that are miles from any sort of civilization, never mind roads, or even trails.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Good question - at least I think so, because I had a hard time envisioning how they would work, too. From some reading while I was compiling those photos:
It's not that these modern anti-climbers are meant to engage each other, as with car bumpers or some other early versions of anti-climbers. Instead, as the couplers would start to separate vertically during a collision or derailment event, the rising coupler will 'snag' under the shelf of the anti-climber if and while the locos (or maybe a car) are being pushed together (if they're separating apart horizontally, there's not that problem to deal with anyway).
Links to a couple photos from 1982 or so which show why you want to have anti-climbers - both crews jumped before impact, and no one was seriously hurt - but read the caption under the second one for the details (Larry / tree68 especially):
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=309261
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=309259
Hi Quentin,
This is from the Railroad Glossary here on the site. Hope it helps.
I've looked at all the engines in the photos showing the "anticlimbers"....I'm rather sure what they are for, but what does the design feature of it "sticking out from the front" of the engine do that makes it effective in doing that job.....?
Saw a bunch of freight action this forenoon from my window in the counting-room at church (was filling in for another offering-counter who was cooking my dinner for me tonight at the church auction--we still needed a third person, as Pat and I couldn't work together without someone else in the room to keep us honest). This was my first time doing this task--next time I'll sit on the side of the table that faces the tracks!
Awesome; thanks a bunch, Paul. That really helps. I had thought to flip through the pics but I didn't even know what to look for. .
Links to photos (none mine) of anticlimbers - see the captions for details:
NS EMD SD60M - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=341380
SP EMD GP38-2 - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=322001
Metrolink EMD F59PH - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=320029
CSXT GE AC4400CW - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=165799
NS GE C40-9W (Dash 9 - 40CW) - http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=124530
I've also seen them with like 3 horizontal 'fins' or 'blades', but can't find a photo of that right now.
Thanks, everyone. From my archives (of questions), can anybody please show me, or link me to, a photo of an anti-climber? I get the concept; I just can't picture what one would look like. Thanks in advance.
WMNB4THRTL 2. It mentioned something about seeing the crew haul their grips up into the cab? Does that mean their gear for the day?
2. It mentioned something about seeing the crew haul their grips up into the cab? Does that mean their gear for the day?
Way back in the day, Operators like my Dad, who didn't own a car until after he was married, traveled from job to job by what ever train was going in the right direction. He carried everything in a grip. I always thought that was the name of that type of bag until my Uncle referred to it as a Diamondstone. I don't know if that was a Canadian only brand name or not. I have been racking my brain ever since I read Nancy's post for the other name my Dad would use. It was leather with a cardboard floor insert.
Whatever it is called, it is ubiquitous in Canadian pictures of railroaders carrying their gear, from early in the 20th Century until the 1960's.
It stood up on its' own like those big cases Lawyers carry that have the two lids that interlock at the top and was about the same length and width. But when you looked at the bag from the end, when it was closed, the top half of the bag was round like a duffel bag. It was hinged in such a way that the sides folded toward each other and locked at the top. It was a more complicated hinge arrangement than that used on a soft leather briefcase.
Sadly, it met its' demise in a flood in the basement of my parent's place in the eighties.
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