Come April 1, your eyes will be opened, Randy! Congratulations and good luck, nonetheless!
(Congratulations to you, too, Z-man, on the rule test! I used to sweat those things out beforehand, then was always the first one done, and usually with the best score. The class leader for my last three or four tests made the mistake of saying "Great job, for a CRO!" to me only once.)
And let me be the first to congratulate Zug on reaching 2000. I think in the old days that rated another star. Doesn't matter if you're not quite there yet--RSVP here, and you're in!
I envy your trip along the NS, Randy. We'll be in and around Roanoke for a day or so next month. I hope to get to the museums, but we have a tight schedule in the area, and I want to see some trains! Roanoke for us will be a resting spot between Charlotte and Hagerstown, along I-81. We'll be going to places like Clifton Forge (C&OHS headquarters) and Staunton (quilt shop inside the old C&O depot); Hagerstown is just where we turn the corner and head to Cumberland.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
To every engineer, "kick 'em" was taken a bit differently, depending on the situation. I slightly surprised a senior conductor one afternoon, when he said "kick" I yanked the throttle to notch 6, and grabbed a touch of sand. The SD20 made a nice smoke show for the motorists sitting at the crossing we were blocking. Sometimes I miss those WSOR SD20s.....
Had a chance earlier in the week to parallel the NS from Roanoke all the way to Suffolk, VA, on US 460. Nice ride, could use a few rest areas for trucks, but seeing the yard at Crewe, VA was cool.
Counting down the days until March 31st, when my sister and I sign the papers on a house we are buying, and move into same. Both of us are looking forward to it.....
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
tree68 I once watched what I took to be an old-head CSX conductor take 5 tries to get a hitch (20 cars from the engines, on a downgrade, with TTX flats). That knowledge has served my ego well when I've gotten up to try #3....
I once watched what I took to be an old-head CSX conductor take 5 tries to get a hitch (20 cars from the engines, on a downgrade, with TTX flats). That knowledge has served my ego well when I've gotten up to try #3....
Long drawheads that are freshly lubed/greased are always the worst. The smallest touch and they slide over quicker than a jackrabbit on speed trying to walk across a frozen lake.
There's been plenty of times it took me 3, 4, 5... tries to couple something up. Almost always on a curve. Sometimes with a pin that does not want to drop. But we all have our little secrets to get that hitch that are best not printed.
In other news, I passed my book-o-rules today. I am once again qualified to be a RRer this year. Yaaay me. I think. Maybe. Meh.
Post #1999. Hmm.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Johnny, I suspect that he knows the futility of asking me to come back...I can't, without jeopardizing my pension.
However, I'm pretty sure that he's the one that deserves congratulating, for finally "seeing the light" and realizing how good he had it when I was around.
Your other question is a good one. But I have no idea if it can be answered. I'm not even sure that that's why we don't have them any more, but it makes sense, when taken with everything else.
Today, while out watching trains, I saw some new three-unit stack cars from two different builders. They're the first new stack cars for TTX documented in the past three years (documentation courtesy of fellow freight-car freaks). The cars I saw were part of two different 750-car orders (that's 2,250 tubs!). Both batches have well lengths of 53 feet.
Paul_D_North_Jr And then maybe tell us what that "Another train" is, too - a 'scoot', intermodal, manifest freight, unit coal, etc., along with its schedule number or symbol, the locomotive types, numbers, and the engineer's first name . . .
And then maybe tell us what that "Another train" is, too - a 'scoot', intermodal, manifest freight, unit coal, etc., along with its schedule number or symbol, the locomotive types, numbers, and the engineer's first name . . .
Good one Paul!
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
CShaveRR It's basically trial-and-error, Paul. Once a coupler is positioned for a coupling move, it tends to stay there. Locomotive drawbars don't move very much, and all the wedges in the world won't help that. There are times when drawbars are difficult or impossible to slide over. We used to use a "drawbar straightener", a length of cable with pins at the end that dropped into the vertical holes in the knuckles--a gentle stretch, with knuckles closed, would pull both drawbars into line with each other, after which the device could be removed, knuckle(s) opened, and the joint made. Evidently UP thought this CNW-used device was unsafe (you couldn't separate the cars the requisite distance with it), so I haven't seen them. Yet I can think of no accidents caused by them, or derailments.
It's basically trial-and-error, Paul. Once a coupler is positioned for a coupling move, it tends to stay there. Locomotive drawbars don't move very much, and all the wedges in the world won't help that.
There are times when drawbars are difficult or impossible to slide over. We used to use a "drawbar straightener", a length of cable with pins at the end that dropped into the vertical holes in the knuckles--a gentle stretch, with knuckles closed, would pull both drawbars into line with each other, after which the device could be removed, knuckle(s) opened, and the joint made. Evidently UP thought this CNW-used device was unsafe (you couldn't separate the cars the requisite distance with it), so I haven't seen them. Yet I can think of no accidents caused by them, or derailments.
And, Carl, congratulations on being asked to return to work; at least one of the men with whom you worked appreciated you.
Johnny
CShaveRR [snipped] 2. And this one is personal...I don't regard the presence of another train as dangerous. Just for railfans, they should have them flashing WOOOOOT! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING ALL RIGHT! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING YIPPEEEE! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING YEAH, BABY! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
WOOOOOT! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
ALL RIGHT! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
YIPPEEEE! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
YEAH, BABY! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
- Paul North.
Good afternoon! We had an overcast day with temperatures in the middle 60s--still a chance of rain. I was wearing a good green shirt, but it didn't keep me (and Pat) from going out to pick up our tuned-up bicycles. Pat had other chores to do, so she got to take her bike home with the car. I, on the other hand, put about ten miles on mine, checking out the hobby shop, the traffic at Elmhurst, the three intermediate signal installations (maintainers and lookouts at all three) and the control point (they keep busy, but I don't ever see any progress!).
Trains: had plenty of them, and most of them were coal cars going in one direction or the other (last week I didn't see any coal trains). Three stack trains and a manifest were in the mix, as well as the usual scoot schedule. So it was about a dozen trains in a little more than two hours...not too shabby!
! DANGER ! ANOTHER TRAIN COMING
Got a chance to see (and hear) the ATWS signals in action at Elmhurst, when both scoots arrive simultaneously. It may be a nice, cautious approach to grade-crossing safety, but I have two problems with them:
1. They don't stop until both trains have cleared the crossing, even if the second train is there well after the first one is gone. Right there you have a chance of complacency, figuring that the one train tripping the warning is all that's around--with three tracks, it's possible that a third train might be showing up. The alarm should stop when all trains in the area have occupied the island circuit of the crossing in question.
2. And this one is personal...I don't regard the presence of another train as dangerous. Just for railfans, they should have them flashing
The good news is that our warmer weather has made many stretches of the bike path passable--I can ride along it without sinking too deeply or giving myself a clay-mud stripe up the middle of my back!
Would a wood wedge inserted into the draft gear/ carrier between its sidewall and the coupler shank be of any help in keeping the coupler over to the side where needed for proper alignment to make the joint when the cars are on a curve ? Does the vibration during the move tend to re-center it ? Or is this more a problem of just getting it in the right position before starting - and that's just a matter of "trial and error" ?
See this photo (not mine) for a good illustration: http://www.twincitiesdailyphoto.com/2007/train-01.jpg
(It's about the middle of this web page, which is also pretty interesting: http://www.twincitiesdailyphoto.com/2007_08_01_archive.html )
See also the explanations and videos on this web page on coupling and uncoupling from the San Diego Railroad Museum, at: http://www.sdrm.org/faqs/couplers/index.html
Well then, I guess it remains 'try it until you get it!' Actually, in my case, it's the 'do what the rule book tells you to!!!' 'Cause if not, you won't have to worry about it anyway! You'll be playing in the middle of somebody else's road, if you're lucky!!
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
You'd be more likely to hurt yourself trying to line up a drawbar with a heavy enough stick or pole (especially if it's the one that's moving) than you would with your foot. Not that I'm recommending anything other than the rule-endorsed stop, back to the proper distance before going between cars to adjust, then hoping you've got it... I've seen the kick-it-over method employed often...always without injury, but rarely with success.
Oh, he's lucky he can walk now!! That's what sticks/poles, etc are for!!
I was happy to have caught a quick glimpse of an E/B CSX today! I didn't even know they ran on that stretch of track!! I was in a parking lot but I have no idea if this was a regular run for them or not. I can always hope.
Just don't try what a friend of mine did a number of years ago - attempting to line up the coupler just before they connect with your foot. You'd never know it to see him walk now, though...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Thanks, Carl. That makes me feel better, too! Yes, sometimes, those buggars just won't meet up and play nice no matter what, so they tell me!! I've been there for a few showdowns.
My one instructor told me, there are times he's tempted to go down on the ground and try to line them up himself before he backs into that hitch!! I guess that is tempting, at least after X-number of tries!
Congrats on that nice compliment also.
Nance, I'd never blame an engineer for the number of times it took to make a joint (there might be a reason for blame if he hit too hard and derailed something, but otherwise, he has no control over how the drawbars line up).
___________________
Got a nice compliment yesterday, when my old hump conductor told me that he wished I was back. I don't know why he'd wish that I'd have to give up a retirement that's growing on me, but maybe it means that I'll reach legendary status at Proviso for the right reasons!
Thanks, Larry! That does help me feel a bit better! It's not that I'm a quitter, it's just that I felt like I should give up the seat if I couldn't do it. I should also mention again that we have to often hitch around a curve with our vintage cars. It makes for some fun times, although usually, not so much!!
WMNB4THRTLBTW, the fourth try was the charm!!
mudchicken ....kinda goes hand-in-hand with the term "flat switching" which I assume Nance has encountered by now.
....kinda goes hand-in-hand with the term "flat switching" which I assume Nance has encountered by now.
You mean just regular switching in a flat yard, right? Yup, been there, done that one. Thanks everybody.
PS I just gotta come back in here and say, this aspect of things is a tough one sometimes. Some of you saw/'heard' me talking about vintage equipment and the numerous, double digit tries it takes to make the hitch. It will add to my gray hair count for sure, unless I pull it all out first!!
Kind of a funny story here, too. On one of my early hitches, after I got past try #3 w/o success, I stood up out of my seat bc I was gonna tell my mentor I was done trying--he had NONE of that, thankfully (looking back now) and told me to try again!! It's the old-- 'Oh no, you're in that seat, now sit down and do it until you get it'-- thing. BTW, the fourth try was the charm!! (Just for the record, I would NEVER, EVER dare even TRY that with my one instructor, as I he'd toss me out of the cab, literally!!!!)
I'm sorry, Jeff, but to me it's just common sense that one, or even just two, ground men couldn't handle a drop, particularly without being able to get on or off moving equipment. You'd have to be nuts to try. Now the nuts who think that rules exist to be broken (don't laugh--I've known a few!) will try it.
Back from Michigan. Had a strange day yesterday, in which the names of four former acquaintances, none of whom I'd really thought about in many years, were dropped in front of me. One, a former college friend and confidant, is now a very good artist (the friend we were visiting had some of her pictures in her house). Another, a college roommate, is now a sports columnist for the Grand Rapids Press (never would have expected that, on so many counts! But that picture sure looks like him.) A third, a girl who graduated high school a year ahead of me, might have made a good phys. ed. teacher. But she turned out to be an award-winning principal for the middle school that's now housed in the very building where we went to high school!). And the fourth was a long-ago director of our local historical society, whom I'd forgotten about. Nothing spectacular here, except that she had some physical/emotional problems back then, but is still in there and kicking, apparently--that's good news! I was guilty of not even thinking about these people since my encounters with them...forty years in most cases (45+ in one!) and at least ten in the last.
CShaveRR Bruce, I doubt that lawyers in general know enough about such moves to prohibit them. The prohibition was probably made by some manager who probably suspended a guy who didn't time his role properly and either cost the company some time or repair expenses. The suspension probably would have been enough, but said manager, wanting to assure himself that such things didn't happen on his watch any more, had the prohibition enacted.
Bruce, I doubt that lawyers in general know enough about such moves to prohibit them. The prohibition was probably made by some manager who probably suspended a guy who didn't time his role properly and either cost the company some time or repair expenses. The suspension probably would have been enough, but said manager, wanting to assure himself that such things didn't happen on his watch any more, had the prohibition enacted.
I think another reason it's banned is because it's hard to do on a condr-only crew. Not impossible, I've seen it done. One wayfreight condr used to do it quite often. Even harder for one person since getting on/off moving equipment is now prohibited.
Jeff
Late at night, in the wilds of Michigan (at least relatively speaking--they have five railroads up here in GR, but you have to be very lucky to catch anything on any of 'em!).
Right now I'm "hearing that lonesome whistle" calling for grade crossings. On this side of town, it probably means that the Pere Marquette has arrived from Chicago, and is heading up to Fuller or thereabouts, where it will lay over until heading back in the morning. Wish I could be on it!
Earlier today, in Muskegon, we saw a Geep (it looked like a GP20, with only two large radiator fans on the long hood) and an EMD switcher, both in an attractive red-and-white paint scheme for the Michigan Shore Railroad. Pat and I had lunch at what could realistically be called a Trackside Lounge--it was even named "The Station!". However, it was decorated in the theme of an old filling station, and the tracks adjacent to it had one former Wisconsin Central (now GACX) covered hopper on them. Quite a comedown from when this was a fairly busy yard used by GTW.
Larry, you were finishing your post as I was writing mine. Nice analogy!
Let's see...how would a drop be described? You're running along with a can on a balcony or something, and the can is a molotov cocktail with the fuse lit--you still have to get it into the barrel, which is on ground level, but you don't want to be in the way when it gets there.
Kicking of cars is certainly not illegal, nor is it unsafe. The business about keeping going and lining the switch behind the kicked car is not a good idea, but it also isn't a necessary part of the move, ever.
Nance, kicking is just accelerating then pulling the pin and letting the car roll by itself. Depending on the circumstances, a person may or may not have to ride the car to set a brake. In my old playground, if a car didn't roll in the clear an engine would come down and kick it down into the track. Some things not to do when kicking a car are kicking it faster than a walking speed, or to release the car when the cars are on a curve.
The one that involves throwing the switch between locomotive and car(s) is a drop switch, which is a way to get a car onto a facing-point spur from behind the engine. The engine pulling the car speeds up, then slows down quickly, just enough to provide some slack at the pin, then runs ahead out of the way. After it clears the switch, the switch is thrown and the car(s) go down the other track. This is the move that is no longer permitted by rules or notices except under extremely specific cases. I have done a drop from every aspect of the job except the engineer's (i.e., pulling the pin, throwing the switch, and tying down the free-rolling cars in the clear).
(See, you shouldn't have gotten me started!)
AK - what you describe sounds almost like a "Dutch Drop" or "flying drop."
As an analogy for kicking cars - imagine you are sorting out soda cans by brand. Because you have a number of brands, you have a number of barrels lined up.
If you were to directly drop each can into the specified barrel, you'd have to carry each can to the appropriate barrel and drop it in. Very time consuming - lots of walking.
If, instead, you toss the cans into the barrels from a central point, you can be reaching for the next can while the last can is still in the air.
So it is with kicking cars. If the crew pushed each car down the yard track until it coupled with the cars already there, sorting a group of cars would take "forever." There are times when that's appropriate, though.
An anchor of several cars is set at the far end of each track that will be used. As the destination track of each car is determined, the appropriate switches are set and the car is kicked as described above, to roll down the track until it reaches the cars already there.
Once a car clears all the switches, they can be set for the next car(s), and the engine can be backing up for the next shove/kick.
And so the cycle continues.
I was in Lynchburg, VA a few years ago, watching NS kicking cars in one of their yards (it's right next to a mall). It was dark, and you couldn't see the far end of the yard anyhow, so all you got was seeing the car(s) kicked, followed by a loud bang when they got where they were going.
Dan, I'm not quite sure that is the old type "kicking" that was outlawed.
The way I remember seeing it done was back in the days of five man crews. You had one guy riding the car to be kicked, who stayed with it to man the brakes. A second crewman was on the last car before the uncoupling, to pull the pin, and set the kicked car free. And then the tricky, and I think currently illegal part.
As you describe above, the last car is kicked, but there is a third man who throws the switch the moment the kicked car's second truck clears the switch frog, and before the still moving cut of cars lead truck reaches the switch points, and the powered cut continues down the other track. Getting the spacing right between the two cars was done after much practice and was way cool to watch.
The final two crewmen were the engineer and fireman.
Workers Compensation and lawyers put and end to that action.
Kicking cars FWIU is a semi-normal practice. I know CN does it at many yards and I've observed it. Kicking is when you have an engine with a cut of cars that the engine can handle starting & stopping w/o air sorting cars between various tracks based on destination using small bursts of speed & braking using simultaneous uncoupling of the cars to be sorted.
The switches ahead of the cut of car(s) being kicked are lined and the conductor tells the hogger "Kick 'em". The conductor either walks with or jogs alonside the cut lever and yanks the lever open as he tells the hogger "That'll do". The hogger will hit the brakes (usually pretty hard-but there's an art, just ask Ed Blysard) and the car recently uncoupled will continue on to the desired track, leaving the stopping cut and engine behind on the lead being used. I will try to get a video including audio of both engine sound and radio TX if you'd like to see it.
AFAIK the only time it's "illegal" is if the car rolls across a public crossing. The City of Oshkosh has such an ordinance...but I'm gonna step back from that line of thought as I'm not admitted by the WI Bar.
Dan
WMNB4THRTL Hi, I was just reading and found reference to 'kicking cars.' What does this mean? I'm guessing it is dangerous bc it also mentioned it's banned or outlawed on most roads now. Thanks.
Hi,
I was just reading and found reference to 'kicking cars.' What does this mean? I'm guessing it is dangerous bc it also mentioned it's banned or outlawed on most roads now. Thanks.
However, kicking cars was a practice used in switching cars when the crew wanted to quickly get the car where it should be--you are pushing the car onto another track, and as you approach the switch (lined for the other track), you give the car a little more momemtum, cut it loose, slow your engine, and reline the switch after the car has passed over the switch, and merrily go on your way with the engine. Unless you know that car will stop and stay just where you want it, you have a man on the car to stop the car and tie it down.
It can be dangerous--and the only time I saw it used, there was not a good connection between the brake wheel and the brakes, and the car ran over a derail (which failed to derail the car) much to the chagrin of everybody involved. (I mentioned this some time back when I commented about running over a rabbit).
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