Thanks Carl....Hope your trip {walking}, to the store is successful & safe...That ice and snow....sorry you got more, we luckily missed that latest that went by this weekend...it stayed north of us.
Birthday lunch: My choice, so I selected Olive Garden for us to visit a little later for lunch. Mine must be Spaghetti with meat sause {anglehair}, and dry bread sticks...with butter, not garlic....and their house salad. It's one of Jean's favorite spots too, so that will work out just fine.
If you and Pat make it back to Muncie in near future, and you both like O Gs food, it's a nice place to go here in Muncie....But right next to it are Texas Road House & Red Lobster, so we've got choices.
Quentin
We'll have to return sometime, Quentin! I know you've mentioned a trackside place before; are these near the tracks?
We got to the store and back with no problems. The precipitation is being surreptitious at the present time--you don't see it falling, but the evidence is there in places: crunchy sidewalks, a bit of white in protected areas.
We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. We decided that the Hotel Roanoke was a little too pricey for us (even if their railfan special discount were in effect--it is scheduled to expire on March 1), so we're outside of town there, but still within walking distance of the old N&W main line to the west. Roanoke will be our crash-site when we're doing the work at the C&OHS Archives in Clifton Forge.
Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR I haven't looked at it lately, but that video of the UP train derailed by the tornado...I think it could have ended very differently if the tank car had hit the locomotive not equipped with an anticlimber. The way the tank was bouncing, had the coupler come in contact above the engine's coupler (anywhere on the unit) it could have continued up and into the nose, and who knows how much further, since it was a load with a lot of train behind it.
I haven't looked at it lately, but that video of the UP train derailed by the tornado...I think it could have ended very differently if the tank car had hit the locomotive not equipped with an anticlimber. The way the tank was bouncing, had the coupler come in contact above the engine's coupler (anywhere on the unit) it could have continued up and into the nose, and who knows how much further, since it was a load with a lot of train behind it.
Maybe it didn't climb over was because it was a load. Some years back, when the UP was sending stack trains down what was then the IMRL, an IMRL crew that had just taken over and running at 17 mph rear ended a BNSF local within yard limits at Clinton on the IMRL. The rear car was an empty tank and it rode up, went thru the nose into the cab. Both the engr and condr were killed. It was speculated that had that rear car been loaded, the weight would've kept it from riding up over the front of the engine.
I suppose when it comes right down to it, nothing replaces dumb luck.
Jeff
No, there aren't any guarantees - but engineering and sensible precautions can sure improve the odds. For instance:
See this great photo linked below (not mine) of the underside of an anti-climber on New York & Atlantic Railway GP38-2 No. 268 from January 2007 at: https://picasaweb.google.com/alsrelics/NYAR268#
https://picasaweb.google.com/alsrelics/NYAR268#5196234915542315842
- Paul North.
Happy Birthday, Quentin!! I hope you and Jean are healing nicely! Take good care, hope you really enjoyed your lunch.
I'm still nursing my broken (we presume) toe(s)/foot; hope to make it in tom. for x-rays, before moving on to calling hours for my best friend Judy's brother, Bob's calling hours. Sure would be nice if the weather would be kind of nice to me for Tues. Back to resting, as the pain med. isn't very nice to me, either.
Nance-CCABW/LEI
“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown
[quot
[/quote]
You are indeed correct.
I have been waiting for several years for someone else to mention it, but I guess I will. There was a serious incident near Hinton, AB (not the infamous head on crash) involving a grade crossing crash. It involved a WB "Canadian" hitting a logging truck. This happened only a couple of weeks after that famous commuter train crash in California caused by that fellow trying to commit suicide by parking his SUV on the tracks.
The aerial photo's were amazingly similar, yet unlike the California tragedy not one fatality occurred and there were only a few minor injuries. Sometimes there is no good explanation.
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
WMNB4THRTL Happy Birthday, Quentin!! I hope you and Jean are healing nicely! Take good care, hope you really enjoyed your lunch. I'm still nursing my broken (we presume) toe(s)/foot; hope to make it in tom. for x-rays, before moving on to calling hours for my best friend Judy's brother, Bob's calling hours. Sure would be nice if the weather would be kind of nice to me for Tues. Back to resting, as the pain med. isn't very nice to me, either.
Thank you for the good birthday wishes. We did fine. Food was good at our Olive Garden but the weather tried to put a bit of ice on the trees this afternoon....but fortunately, it turned to big wet snow flakes and stopped the ice, but not much fell....Just made the ground white.
Sounds like you need some good wishes of healing and and better weather to see your friend at calling hours....Good luck. Wife Jean has her left arm in a cast from falling on the ice several weeks ago and breaking some bones in her wrist. She seems to be doing ok. Several more weeks in the cast if all goes well.
CShaveRR We'll have to return sometime, Quentin! I know you've mentioned a trackside place before; are these near the tracks? We got to the store and back with no problems. The precipitation is being surreptitious at the present time--you don't see it falling, but the evidence is there in places: crunchy sidewalks, a bit of white in protected areas. We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. We decided that the Hotel Roanoke was a little too pricey for us (even if their railfan special discount were in effect--it is scheduled to expire on March 1), so we're outside of town there, but still within walking distance of the old N&W main line to the west. Roanoke will be our crash-site when we're doing the work at the C&OHS Archives in Clifton Forge. Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
Carl.....You're thinking of Bruner's restaurant that faces rt. 32....{You drove along that route when we met several years ago as you drove out of town to the west, and the CSX double tracks on your left. Bruner's is along that route, as you come out the west side of Muncie.
Ironically, Olive Garden is right next to a former rail line...{That had Amtrack on it at one time}...The former C&O....and now our Trail....The same one you were next to at the restored station here.
Your itinerary sounds good to check out several RR areas....Believe that Holiday Inn Hotel is right on the Sand Patch line of CSX. And of course you can set on the porch at the Station Inn and observe.
Thanks so much for the good wishes, Quentin. I really appreciate them. Take good care.
CShaveRR We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks. Sounds like the ideal ralfanning vacation to the east, and I hope it turns out that way! But this is also about going places we've never been before, and visiting my sister in Charlotte as well (not to mention that the trip starts out with a quilt convention in Cincinnati, and we'll have the nationwide catalog of quilt shops along with us).
We just booked our lodging for nearly all of the trip we're planning on taking in April, including a couple of nights at the Station Inn in Cresson, and another night at the Holiday Inn in Cumberland, which should have a good view of the tracks.
Johnny
A little catchup here...
I hope Mr. Yuhas' procedure went well. I've been keeping him and his family & friends in my thoughts.
Nance-you gotta be careful! I hope you heal and recover as quickly as you can.
Q-Happy (late) Birthday. I hope Jean's recovery goes well also.
Carl-That trip sounds like fun. I hope you make it a good one. I hope you and Pat can keep each other out of trouble...
CShaveRR Like I said, Dan...don't make me come up there! The numbers of the ore cars now go up as high as 71203. I forgot what I said the end point was earlier, but there have obviously been at least 500 added. I don't see the National Steel Car decals on these, so it's possible that someone else built them. Nice down-on view, by the way.
Like I said, Dan...don't make me come up there!
The numbers of the ore cars now go up as high as 71203. I forgot what I said the end point was earlier, but there have obviously been at least 500 added. I don't see the National Steel Car decals on these, so it's possible that someone else built them. Nice down-on view, by the way.
Getting back to this...those cars are made by ARI or American Railcar Industries. We had 3 ore trains over the last three days and one I managed to catch a neat shot illustrating the two slightly different cars:
On the left is the NSC (National Steel Car) jenny and the right is the ARI (American Railcar Industries) jenny. There was a cut of about 5 or 6 ARI jennies in the otherwise all NSC train.
Not enough information you say? Ok. Here's the specs on the ARI jenny, couldn't find the NSC specs.http://www.americanrailcar.com/pdf/RailcarManufacturing/SP-Ore1150cu-ft.pdf
Dan
That ARI logo (in blue, centered along the bottom of the side) was hard to see. Thanks for that, Dan!
I noticed, from the specs, that these are not very revolutionary cars, after all. They're still 220K gross rail load--basically 70-ton cars. Wheels, axles, and bearings being supplied by CN. Cars don't meet the requirements for axle spacing. I'd have to assume that they are being kept this small for reasons of adapting to the ore docks or something like that.
I also noticed that the NSC-built car has a shoe on the side to be tripped for automatic dumping, while the ARI car does not. (And there is the explanation for the second air hose on these cars!)
__________________
Now that the planning is done for the trip, we're looking at funding. Today will be set aside for income-tax preparation. It's going to be very hard to remain calm and collected for more than a month with a trip like this coming up.
Johnny, Charlotte's the big mystery part of this trip. We're planning on staying at my sister's place (with her blessing), but they haven't even moved there yet! We don't know where this place is yet, or what we can do while we're down there (two nights and the intervening day), but I'm sure we'll get to see some interesting sights. This will be our first meaningful trip to North Carolina (we went a short distance into the state over 30 years ago). We may make our first foray ever into South Carolina, since Charlotte is that close to the border.
CNW 6000 Not enough information you say? Ok. Here's the specs on the ARI jenny, couldn't find the NSC specs.http://www.americanrailcar.com/pdf/RailcarManufacturing/SP-Ore1150cu-ft.pdf
Dan, thanks for that. If you remember from a while back I mentioned how I would like to compare these ore cars with the ones CN had 40 years ago to carry ore from the Pine Point Mine in the Northwest Territories down to Trail, BC.
I am having trouble finding a good picture of those cars with their dimensions, on the net, so I am going to have to go through my books. If anything significant turns up, I will report back.
CShaveRR. Johnny, Charlotte's the big mystery part of this trip. We're planning on staying at my sister's place (with her blessing), but they haven't even moved there yet! We don't know where this place is yet, or what we can do while we're down there (two nights and the intervening day), but I'm sure we'll get to see some interesting sights. This will be our first meaningful trip to North Carolina (we went a short distance into the state over 30 years ago). We may make our first foray ever into South Carolina, since Charlotte is that close to the border.
Good traveling.
It wasn't easy, but the taxes got done. I don't think our driveway is worth shoveling off, so I'll just get back to the old freight-car files. Started a new old scratch-pad last night, after taking a little over a week to do the previous one. From the looks of things, I'll be a little busier on this one! I've already had some surprises.
A brief trip out today revealed track workers in the vicinity of the crossovers, but no movement in the stacked-switch piles.
Well thanks to the CN Special Interest Group I was able to find a picture of the CN ore cars I mentioned earlier.
http://cnlines.ca/CNcyclopedia/flat/img_345091.jpg
I couldn't find all the dimensions, but what I did find shows these cars had an inside length of 22.5' and a cu. ft. capacity of 2300 compared to the 19' 1-1/8" inside length and 1150 cu. ft. of the ARI car Dan mentioned. The CN cars were as tall or taller than the boxcars of that era, 1967-98. But I can't find the weight capacity.
Thanks, Dan; much appreciated! I am, indeed, broken for sure, so the doc says. He put me in a cast boot from toes to knee, so that'll be fun for at least 6-8 weeks!! Hey, at least it's winter, which can be good or bad, but...
At least I made it to calling hours and got a nice surprise of an invite to the church luncheon today to 'boot,' complete with awesome live music!!
AgentKid [snip] . . . what I did find shows these cars had an inside length of 22.5' and a cu. ft. capacity of 2300 compared to the 19' 1-1/8" inside length and 1150 cu. ft. of the ARI car Dan mentioned. The CN cars were as tall or taller than the boxcars of that era, 1967-98. But I can't find the weight capacity. Bruce
You all catch that ? Those old CN cars have twice the cu. ft. capacity of the new ARI cars ! Despite the seeming similarily of the inside length dimensions, the older cars are much higher and have a longer bottom length - that's where the additional volume comes from. But why? What did they do with it ?
The ARI cars have a Load Limit of 175,000 lbs. (220,000 lbs. gross - 45,000 lbs. est. empty weight), so the max. density for a level load of 1,150 cu. ft. would be about 152 lbs. per cu. ft.,; divide by 62.4 lbs. per cu. ft. for water to get a bulk Specific Gravity of about 2.44. The same process for the old cars would yield about 76 lbs. per cu. ft. or an SG of 1.22. So either the intended material was pretty light, or else there was a lot of excess/ wasted space in those old cars . . .
Just got back from trackside...what a freakin' day! A four-headed manifest, intermodal, an engineering train and not one...two ore trains! Loaded U758 met empty U757 at Stroebe Siding. The U758 had ore jennies that were built in the 40s/50s, in fact the whole train was like that. I looked for a builder's mark but didn't recognize one. These cars are drawbarred together in quads and had the 'double air' hoses mounted higher than the couplers. I did get pictures...but I'm pretty tired so they'll have to wait til tomorrow. For the record (don't look Carl) that's 5 ore trains in 4 days (3 loads & 2 empties).
I honestly don't know why I'm sitting around here with all of those ore trains headed this way. I should be holed up in West Chicago (well, actually, I do know--we had to man the telephones at WFMT this morning and I have a meeting this evening). Still, I'll get to see those ore cars someday!
Dan, some of the first ore cars I ever saw still had logos for the Duluth, Missabe & Northern on them...that merger (to form DM&IR) took place in the late 1940s, if I remember correctly).
As to the new DMIR ore cars, they still have to fit the same old unloading docks at Duluth. So you're stuck with the short length. The CN cars, small as they appear, wouldn't work at the docks in Duluth (they were evidently heightened sometime, probably when conversion was made to taconite pellets instead of raw iron ore). The only way to go to increase capacity on the DMIR cars would be up, which I think would either make the cars unacceptably top-heavy or concentrate an inordinate amount of weight in a short distance. So they're stuck with the short, squat bodies on cars with only a 220K gross rail load instead of 263K or 286K. One thing I thought about is why not make a 48-foot car with two pockets and a higher gross rail load? You'd still, however, be stuck with trucks very close to the ends of the cars (to fit over the dock's chutes), and the higher-capacity trucks have larger wheels and axle spacing, which would make things even more cramped.
About the only way you'll see larger ore cars in that service is to replace the dock with a more modern unloading system (rotary dumpers, conveyor-belt delivery). That expense might be unjustifiable, or the configuration of the yard may not allow it (never been there, but I've heard tales...).
(Dan, I'm pretty sure those ancient ore cars have lost their builder's logos to a repainting somewhere in their 60+ years of existence.)
We have weather coming in overnight, and expect to wake up to several inches (up to five) of snow on the ground in the morning. I got out for a little while today for my volunteer work, and saw two freights each of the two times I was near the tracks.
Four switch assemblies are ready by the site of the new crossovers--one more to go and they'll have all of the switches ready for whenever they can get time to take the tracks out of service and move them into place.
Tomorrow Pat and I are both working at one of the local museums--she as a guide and me for crowd control (bused-in tours--could be several hundred kids there over the course of a few hours). I expect to be somewhere outside (or close to an entrance) for most of the proceedings, but this museum is across the street from the tracks (it's the oldest house in Lombard, and actually predates the railroad, which was the first in the state, arriving at Lombard in 1849).
CShaveRRWe have weather coming in overnight, and expect to wake up to several inches (up to five) of snow on the ground in the morning.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
CShaveRR [snipped] Four switch assemblies are ready by the site of the new crossovers--one more to go and they'll have all of the switches ready for whenever they can get time to take the tracks out of service and move them into place.
Well, Larry, if our experience helps, you'll be getting plenty of snow...we just got a dusting here. Maybe more will be coming over the weekend.
Just heard last night that one of my nieces was in a serious car accident earlier in the week, on slippery Michigan roads. She suffered a concussion, required some stitches in her head, and her car was totaled. Today will be the first day she attempts to go back to classes at school, and she hasn't worked since the accident (which occurred as she was on her way from school to work).
We didn't seem to be in the "center" of this latest weather that passed by the last 12....But we got enough. I estimate a good 4" of the wet stuff came down here. Ground was bare before. Our's started about 9 oclock last evening.
By radar, it's out of here now and on to the east....Overcast, and even had the sun peek thru several times this morning. About 30 degrees now.
Carl...sorry to hear of the accident and injury of your niece...This Winter has taken it's toll on people and vehicles as well. We wish her a good and speedy recovery.
Afternoon, folks. I hope you are all staying safe in this latest storm. I tried to look out the front door but had a hard job trying to push it open for all the snow drifted up against it! UGH!! Spring can't spring soon enough for this chick!!!
I'm currently studying from RR books I managed to acquire. I'm curious about 'rail creep.' I've just recently come across this term for the first time. Does this cause many problems? Thanks.
"Rail creep" can cause several different kinds of problems. It's small movements of the rail(s) consistently in the same direction, typically downhill on a grade, or on flatter track, in the direction of prevailing traffic or weight. Where the rail is 'coming from', it can cause pull-aparts at a joint or even a rail break. Where it's 'going to' can result in one or more of: bad alignment and even a 'heat kink' in warmer weather; binding on the separate rails on movable bridges, turntables, car dumpers, weigh scales, and the like; narrow gauge at the Point of Switch of a turnout, esp. if the curved stock rail is being shoved ahead enough so that the 'stock bend' gets significantly closer to the tip of the point such that the stock 'angle' results in the point being displaced more towards the center of the track/ the other rail, etc. There might be other adverse effects that I'm not thinking of right now, esp. for the signals people at switches. On the other hand, rail creep occurs because of unequal stresses in the track, so it does represent an attempt to equalize and spread out those stresses to a new equilibrium - it's just that the new 'state of affairs' (such as a heat kink) is not always desirable . . .
I hope they don't call me a "rail creep"!
I just got back from a day's worth of volunteer work at our local pioneer house/museum. They were talking railroad the whole day there, but it was in reference to the Underground Railroad, not the one outside the windows. Darn...I'd brought my little wooden train whistle and everything!
Actually, my job was to blow on the whistle every five minutes during a tour, so the guides (one of which was Pat) would know when to move on to a different room of the house. The tours had to be over in about 15 minutes, because that's how long it took the trolley (again, frustration...only rubber tires ) to ferry a load of students from the house to the next place and bring a new load in.
But my job gave me plenty of time to look out the window and across the street to where the UP was running some real trains! The track forces were at work where the crossovers will be, so we got plenty of horn warning for approaching trains. And I was there for four hours, some of which were pretty decent for action and one of which only had the two regularly-scheduled Metra scoots. But this is a more consistent look at volume than what my occasional brief visits show. Here's the final tally, from 9:30 this morning to 1:30 this afternoon:
1 westbound perishable train.
1 empty coal train, westbound.
2 loaded coal trains, eastbound.
2 stack trains, westbound.
3 stack trains, eastbound
2 manifests, eastbound (one had a lot of combines and tractors; the other was about 80 percent reefers).
1 manifest, westbound.
6 Metra scoots, 3 east and 3 west. The time we were there included the "blank" hours in both directions.
___________________
18 trains in 4 hours, or an average of one every 14 minutes or so.
Ooohhh......I can't hear you!
I can't hear you!! I'm not looking!
Between you and Dan, well, I just don't know!! Guess I'm gonna have to give up and figure out how to get some of my own railfanning in! I can hear the trains out there but have yet to figure out how to get to them safely and legally! Maybe someday......
Carl, your description of the museum tour reminds me the time during my second year in college that one of the local bakeries was using a new method of preparing the bread dough, and invited people (primarily, their customers) to tour the bakery and see what was being done. The bakery hired several of the students to serve as guides, with the guides working in pairs. One of a pair would start a group through, stopping at each point where something was to be described and moving on after the description was ended. When one of a pair reached the point where the other one of the pair was, the other one would take the group on and out, and start a new group, with the starter staying at the point until his/her partner returned. We did not need a whistleblower, since all the spiels were about the same length.
One day, one of the guides suggested that we all synchronize our watches, and at a certain time we would all yell,"Fire!" Of course, we did not. I wish I had reminded him of that when we met for our fiftieth reunion three years ago.
We had a great time.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.