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Trackside Lounge: 1Q 2011

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:40 PM

Paul:  Salud!Bow

My pal Pat, the lineside reporter (no way would this guy resemble my wife Pat...hair color's the same, but there's far less of it!) says that our Track 2 was finally broken open at 11:30 this morning. 

Just heard a tale about the snow-removal crews at Proviso piling up snow and literally trapping one of the industry jobs in a spur.  The engine and cars are reportedly still there.  (I guess if the crew couldn't get away they'd be earning their money on tow-out time.  That, I say that's a joke, Son!)

Carl

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:52 PM

Yes, many thanks!

Which brings me to, what's the difference between a spur and a lead, or are they the same?

Off to learn my 'R's.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

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Posted by zugmann on Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:09 PM

You have to keep in mind, railroad terminology differs from railroad to railroad, region to region, division to division, even yard to yard. 

 

A spur (Around here, and to me) is a line (usually dead-ended) that can lead to several sidings .  While a lead is purely the customer-owned piece of track between the derail and the actual industry.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Saturday, February 5, 2011 10:27 PM

OK, I think I got it.

I have a question about crew time. (I did read the recent thread on this but I still don't know.) Say a crew member comes on duty at 0800, readies the train until 1000, takes the run, returns at 1300, ties up at 1400, and has a rest/break until 1700, then readies for next run which pulls out at 1900, to return at 2300, how are these hours counted? Is s/he over, or not bc of the breaks? Does anyone know what happens if you do go over? What about bad weather or a breakdown, or other incident? Thanks in advance.

PS Also, what if a crew member does part of the time as a brakeman and part as an engineer? Are they still bound by only 12 hours work?

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, February 6, 2011 10:23 AM

A break in the hours of service needs to be 4 hours.  (it was 3 hours at one time, but now is 4 hours)  In the example given the 3 hour break wouldn't count and that employee would die on the HOS at 2000hrs.  

If the employee did have a 4 hour break, than they would still have 6 hours of time left to work.  So if they went back on duty at 1800 they would be able to work until midnight.

If you violate the HOS, you and the railroad can be fined.  In emergency situations the railroad can order you to violate.  In that case you need the details, time and name (initials) of the company officer who ordered the violation.  That's entered on our FRA HOS certification screen.  When ordered to violate, the company takes responsibility and can still be fined. 

 I'm sure in the latest round of bad weather there probably was some violating that happened.  In past times of extreme winter weather when HOS violations happened in my area, the FRA has negotiated or waived the size of the fines.

If you change jobs (brakeman to engr) you have only the one 12 hour period.  Train Dispatchers, Control Operators (the ones who work CTC/manual interlockings) and Signal Maintainers also subject to HOS.  In the days of train orders, the train order operators also were covered.  The HOS for those other crafts aren't the same has the HOS for TE&Y (train, engine and yard) crews.

Jeff 

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, February 6, 2011 5:08 PM

Great; thanks! I'm done with 'R' now, so:

1. (quotes from Glossary)

Roadbed
On real railroads, the foundation layer of earth on which the track is built.
What does it mean, "real railroads," as opposed to...?
2. So I got all 'squared away' on what a 'roadmaster' is but what is a 'trainmaster?' (It's not in Glossary") (Oh, I'm so confused...wait a minute, maybe I'm not! Stick out tongueSmile, Wink & GrinWink)
3. road switcher: "...often with steam generator to heat passenger cars." Really? Weren't these diesels?
4. On a roll-by, since trains do NOT go by their road number (huh-just learned that term better in 'R'!!) how would one call to them on the radio if there was a problem? Would you, as a crew member, always, without exception, know that train's number? Or would you just call your dispatcher with the info and s/he would notify them?

Enjoy the game, if you watch. If not, enjoy the ads, or the end of the hype when it's over (should cover everybody) Stay warm.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:11 PM

WMNB4THRTL

Great; thanks! I'm done with 'R' now, so:

1. (quotes from Glossary)

Roadbed
On real railroads, the foundation layer of earth on which the track is built.
What does it mean, "real railroads," as opposed to...?
2. So I got all 'squared away' on what a 'roadmaster' is but what is a 'trainmaster?' (It's not in Glossary") (Oh, I'm so confused...wait a minute, maybe I'm not! Stick out tongueSmile, Wink & GrinWink)
3. road switcher: "...often with steam generator to heat passenger cars." Really? Weren't these diesels?
4. On a roll-by, since trains do NOT go by their road number (huh-just learned that term better in 'R'!!) how would one call to them on the radio if there was a problem? Would you, as a crew member, always, without exception, know that train's number? Or would you just call your dispatcher with the info and s/he would notify them?

Enjoy the game, if you watch. If not, enjoy the ads, or the end of the hype when it's over (should cover everybody) Stay warm.

Nance, #1--perhaps, as opposed to a model railroad?

#2--Different roads could use different titles for the same supervisory personnel; someone who is more familiar with the various titles can better explain this one than I can. One diesel engine manufacturer (Fairbanks-Morse?) called one series of engines "Trainmasters."

#3--as originally intended, roadswitchers were for use with freights. However, the owning roads realized that they were also perfect for short passenger trains, especially after steam generators were installed in them so that the cars did not need to have heaters installed in them, and to provide hot water in the restrooms. (And, there is the account of a newly appointed supervisory man who did not understand that there was no fixed "front" or "rear" to a passenger car which had a heater and that there was no way for a train that was operated on a spur to turn the car so that the heater would always be at the leading end of the car, and after his first trip on a particular spur demanded that the heater be taken out of one end of the car and be installed at the other end. The car was rather old.)

#4--come on,  man in the know, tell us, please.Smile

Johnny

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Posted by zugmann on Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:13 PM

IN our territory, train symbols are used to call signals.  So, you can hear the train coming from far away and know its symbol.  Now if you don't know its symbol - then you can use its engine number.  Or you can use the generic "westbound at location so and so".  

 

Engine numbers are still what are used for our track authorities/warrants.

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:31 PM

WMNB4THRTL
2. quarter-locked: Can anyone help me with this? Can it still happen or is it totally prevented?

From AmericanRails.com.

Quarter-locked: Condition of a steam locomotive when it is stopped so that the drive rods are directly aligned with the piston which does not allow for the locomotive to be moved. The two sides of a steam locomotive are "quartered" (one-quarter rotation out of phase with each other) to prevent quarter-locking from occurring.

To answer your question, with a Diesel-electric, it's not going to happen, unless there was some quirk in the windings of a motor.  Even then, with four or six motors, it's not likely all of them would be in exactly the same situation.

The only way the problem is going to occur on a steamer with quartered drivers is if one side isn't working.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, February 6, 2011 8:39 PM

zugmann

IN our territory, train symbols are used to call signals.  So, you can hear the train coming from far away and know its symbol.  Now if you don't know its symbol - then you can use its engine number.  Or you can use the generic "westbound at location so and so".  

 

Engine numbers are still what are used for our track authorities/warrants.

In my area, engine numbers are usually used.  There are times, trains that are working (picking up/setting out) may use their symbols instead.  Even then some would rather still use the engine number.

Sometimes if you need to contact a train and you don't know it's symbol and didn't see it's number, you just say, "hello westbound hopper at (location) or hello eastbound manifest at (location)"  Once they answer with their designation, you can tell them what you need to.

Jeff  

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Sunday, February 6, 2011 10:45 PM

Wonderful! Many thanks to each of you! Bow

I've been working on (and thankfully, finished) 'S' tonight.

1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls?

2. short-time rating: I know we touched on this, or similar before, but...I'm still not quite clear on it. I'm not getting this and continuous rating.

3. smoke deflector/lifter: anybody got a photo of one? Also, is a spark arrestor basically a screen?

4. I don't understand 'split' or 'pick' the switch.

5. Which brings me to switches in general:; spring switch, stub switch...???  All the different types... AAAHHHHHH!! Pls HH-EE-LL-PP!!


6. stabbing: Is this right? "We took a stabbing, so we got back to the yard late?"

7. stock rail?

8. Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?!

(examples- colors, movements not tech. correct)

aspect: description "red over green"

name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!)

indication: stop and proceed

Thanks in advance.


Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by mudchicken on Sunday, February 6, 2011 11:59 PM

[quote user="WMNB4THRTL"]

Wonderful! Many thanks to each of you! Bow

I've been working on (and thankfully, finished) 'S' tonight.

1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls? New bridge construction, derailment, site remediation,,etc. ....anything where the railroad must stay connected and in service.

4. I don't understand 'split' or 'pick' the switch. Neither do trainmasters, yardmasters and the mechanical department many timesSigh. Picking a switch usually involves a wheel flange forcing its way in between the stock rail and switch point that is closed. The wheels go the wrong way through the turnout and eventually derail as the rails spread apart. Wheels climb the point for numerous reasons, sometimes because a worn wheel no longer round in cross section at the outside radius of the wheel flange. A wheel flange should not get sharp to the touch which will allow to crush the thin part of the tip of the switch point and crush/climb it. A badly worn switch point tip will also allow a picked/split switch as well as a switch point tip that is not higher than the adjoining stock rail.

5. Which brings me to switches in general:; spring switch, stub switch...???  All the different types... AAAHHHHHH!! Pls HH-EE-LL-PP!!

Most railroaders never see a stub switch. Instead of a stock rail and a sitch point rail together. When a switch is stub, one rail (the entire rail)moves to line up with two connecting tracks. [cshaverr had lots of fun looking at a narrow gage triple throw switch on the Colorado RR Museum grounds - weird on two counts]

Spring switch has a spring loaded switch rod (aka "Mechanical Switchman") which will allow the switch point to open just enough to allow a wheel to pass between the switch point and stock rail in a trailing point/ run-thru/reverse move. In a facing point move, the railcar wheels go the other direction through the turnout. A spring switch is not the same thing as a spring frog. (Both work in a similar fashion)....With a spring switch, you don't dare go halfway through the switch in a trailing point movement and then back up - gravity will work!/ wheels will derail ....usually after one car truck goes down one track with the other wheelset going down the adjoining track. (This roadmaster's future wife used to delight in seeing some of the really wierd yard derailments that interrupted our dinner dates, from the whodunnit? angle and the how-the-heck-do-I-get-out-of-this? adventures in LA.)

7. stock rail?

The stock rail (bent or straight) is the adjoining rail that the switch point snugs up against. The bent stock rail is on the diverging route side and is bent at a very slight angle that allows the switch point in the closed position to allow a train to go in the straight (as opposed to diverging)direction.

[quote]

Mud in Mississippi

(former roadmaster, does not resemble a 1950's Buick Station Wagon with lotsa chrome)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by The Butler on Monday, February 7, 2011 2:33 AM

WMNB4THRTL

snip...

3. smoke deflector/lifter: anybody got a photo of one? Also, is a spark arrestor basically a screen?

...snip

You can find pictures of smoke deflectors here:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_steam2/mountain.htm

James


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Posted by tree68 on Monday, February 7, 2011 7:00 AM

WMNB4THRTL

Wonderful! Many thanks to each of you! Bow

I've been working on (and thankfully, finished) 'S' tonight.

1. shoofly: (no, not the pie either!) some examples of why they'd need this, pls?

You know how they put in those temporary crossovers on the Interstate when they need to work on a bridge or really overhaul a section of roadway?  That's about the same thing, at least in principle.  It's a specially built detour.

2. short-time rating: I know we touched on this, or similar before, but...I'm still not quite clear on it. I'm not getting this and continuous rating.

 Continuous rating is how hard the traction motor(s) can work 24/7 without damage. 

Short-time rating is more or less how long you can overload the motors before they'll break. 

Think of it in terms of running.  A runner can go long distances at a leisurely jog, but can sustain only short distances at a full-out sprint, with varying results in between.

6. stabbing: Is this right? "We took a stabbing, so we got back to the yard late?"

Anything that impedes a train's progress, most often getting stuck in a siding while other (probably more important) trains pass you by. 

8. Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?!

(examples- colors, movements not tech. correct)

aspect: description "red over green"

name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!)

indication: stop and proceed

Thanks in advance.


Sounds like you're getting a handle on the concept of signals.  While there are consistencies (red=stop, yellow=slow down, green=go), there are also variations (red=slow way down or stop and proceed) dependent on the application/location.

Diverging clear means you'll be leaving your current line to go to another, which might be a completely separate line, or a siding.  The rulebook/timetable will tell you how fast you can go through that particular area.

Multiple heads (or other modifiers) increase the possible permutations, as in your example.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 7, 2011 9:34 AM

Let's see...what's weird...CShaveRR looking at a stub switch?  CShaveRR in Colorado?  Guess that's two counts, but I'm weird in a lot more ways, too! 

Yes, stub switches, three routes off one, and narrow-gauge...might seem weird to lots of folks, but we were, after all, in a museum (and a great one, too!).

Actually, if you look at a glossary of railroad slang, Nance, one of the terms used for throwing a switch is "bend the iron".  A stub switch is the one type that literally does this.  And it's also the only way you'll really get a three-way switch.


On that roll-by identification thing:  usually the workers who are going to be giving you the roll by are on the right-of-way with permission, and the trains need permission to go past them.  They will call for this permission using their engine number in our area (or train number, in the case of the Metra trains), so the employee-in-charge knows the engine number, and will probably use that, at least to report to the engineer that the train is now clear of his territory.  The exception is in multiple-track territory--in some cases a train may not need to get clearance past workers (if the workers are only on Track 1 and the train's on Track 3, for example, they don't need to be notified).  In that case, "westbound stacker" or "eastbound manifest", and location, should be good enough.  One person can give a roll-by, and he'll usually say something like "Lookin' good on the north side, over!".

Carl

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Posted by jeffhergert on Monday, February 7, 2011 9:58 AM

WMNB4THRTL

 Signals: I HOPE I finally have this down?!

(examples- colors, movements not tech. correct)

aspect: description "red over green"

name: 'diverging clear' (whatever that means?!)

indication: stop and proceed

Thanks in advance.


The indication for a Diverging Clear would be, "Proceed on diverging route, not exceeding prescribed speed of the turnout."

The learning aids for our signals gave some hints.  If a green  is displayed on the signal, the name will include the word "clear." (Our signals can have from one to three heads)  If a yellow is displayed the name will include the word "approach."  If a lunar is displayed, the name will include the word "restricting."

Some, but not all examples:  Green = Clear, Red over Green = Diverging Clear

Yellow = Approach, Flashing Yellow = advance (not advanced like some say) approach,  Yellow over Yellow = Approach Diverging

Lunar = Restricting, Red over Lunar = Restricting, Yellow over Lunar = Approach Restricting (notice it uses both approach and restricting).

Since signals are railroad specific, I can't guarantee this will work for every railroad.  There are some signals that are the same, and some that aren't.

Carl, I know you'll like this since it ranks right up there with advanced approach.  Yesterday we took a grain train off the main line onto a branch line.  The junction switch is a control point with a power switch.  The signal was displaying a Red over Flashing Red.  As we went past it the conductor called out the signal over the radio, "UP6554 East, CP A225 Main 1, Diverging Restricting."  I almost said something, but didn't, just kind of shook my head.   

Jeff

 

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, February 7, 2011 10:57 AM

WOW-- you guys are great, as always! Sincere thanks all around!

I've basically finished all the rest of the alphabet, so here's what I have so far: (quotes from the Glossary)

1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)

2. throwbar?

3. Yard ladder
An angled track connecting successively the body tracks in a yard.
4. Yard-limit board
Trackside sign denoting the boundary of yard territory and rules.

5.Unit
Commonly, a single machine (usually a diesel-electric), characterized by a single frame and a coupler at each end; technically, the smallest indivisible portion of a locomotive, which is made up of one or more units coupled together and under the control of a single engineer.
6.Zombie
Slang term to denote a locomotive whose frame and trucks have been used as the basis for a low-powered re-engining.
Thanks in advance, as always.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Monday, February 7, 2011 11:49 AM

From the Railroading Glossary (below):

Throwbar
A bar underneath the ties of a turnout to which the points are attached and which moves the points.

 I've seen that term used only on model railroads, where the turnouts are small and there's usually just a single piece of plastic or metal that connects the points and also extends out to one or both sides to attach to a switch machine or switch stand.   

But on the prototype/ real railroads, the rods that connect the 2 switch points - only - are commonly called 'Switch Rods" - I see that term is not in the Glossary.  They are numbered, starting from the 'point' end of the switch and going back - #1 or "Head Rod", then the 32 or "Back Rod", #3, and so on.  (I believe mudchicken referred to them that way in one of his earlier replies above.)  The No. 1 rod is usually around 6 to 8 ft. long, so that it will stick out beyond the stock rail a little bit - as well as under it, which also helps to hold the points down; the other rods are usually just to connect the points, and are about 3 to 4 ft. long.  They are almost always flat steel bar stock material, about 3/4" to 1" thick x 3" to 5" wide.  They are connected to each switch point with L-shaped "switch clip", the lower part of which is sideways-"U"-shaped - often called a "switch jaw" or "jaw clip" so that the switch rod can fit between the 'legs' of the U, where it is held by a bolt or a pin.  See these pages for some photo illustrations and labeled drawings:

http://www.akrailroad.com/switch-components 

http://www.lbfoster.com/uploadedFiles/Asset_Images/Switches.pdf

Anyway, to connect a switch rod to a switch stand or a switch machine takes an "Operating Rod" or "Connecting Rod", which usually has a clevis on the end towards the switch to connect to the #1 road with a bolt or pin, and either another clevis or an 'eye' to drop over a crank on the switch stand, or whatever type of connection is needed for the switch machine, etc.  The Operating Rod is usually about 3' to 5' long, and is usually round.  Sometimes the clevis is threaded to make adjustment of the throws for each point easier - we used to particularly like the "triple adjustable" rods, since you could adjust the overall length and the throw for each point independently, without affecting the other one's setting. 

Let me see if I have or can find a decent close-up photo of some of this that I can post here; otherwise, I'll get some as soon as the snow melts - although, right now it would make a good contrast with the darker rods . . . Whistling 

- Paul North. 

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, February 7, 2011 1:37 PM

WMNB4THRTL

1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)

Yes, and no.  The lights that form the bottom corners of the triangle are technically auxiliary lights.  Some railroads use them in flash mode, some don't.  The idea is to have an easily identifiable sign that there's a train coming.

Auxiliary lights are often referred to as ditch lights, however.

Ditch lights, a Canadian innovation IIRC, actually point across the track into the opposite ditch.  I know of one locomotive that has both ditch and auxiliary lights, for a total of five.

3. Yard ladder
An angled track connecting successively the body tracks in a yard.
I had written 'Look at my avatar," but that's on another board. So here you go:[quote]
4. Yard-limit board
Trackside sign denoting the boundary of yard territory and rules.[/quote]
The rules for operating in a yard are a bit looser, if you will, than on the mainline, where only one train is allowed on a given track at a given time.  You may find several crews working in the yard at one time.  Of course, they have to be more careful. 
Yard limits sometimes extend well beyond the edges of the actual yard so that local jobs can work nearby industries without having to get permission from the dispatcher.
A local yardmaster is usually the ultimate authority.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 7, 2011 1:44 PM

WMNB4THRTL

1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)

If you're seeing lights on the front of a unit alternately flashing, yes, you're probably looking at ditch lights.  However, not all railroads' locomotive units are set up to flash their ditch lights in this way (close to home here, Metra's ditch lights flash like that, but UP's and BNSF's don't).  The flashing, by the way, is usually automatically tied in with the bell (on Conrail units, the horn could set it off, but sounding the horn also actuated the bell, so that's a moot point).

WMNB4THRTL
2. throwbar?

Paul North's answer is as good as you'll get on this subject!

WMNB4THRTL
3. Yard ladder

An angled track connecting successively the body tracks in a yard.

Picture a yard containing ten tracks, numbered from 1 to 10, all parallel to the main track, with yard track 1 adjacent to the main.  If you're heading off the main track into the yard, you'll leave the main track via a switch to the lard lead.  (Remember "lead"?).  Then you'll encounter another switch for Track 1, then curve away from the main track and encounter another switch for track 2, and more for track 3, track 4, etc.  You cross all of those switches to get to Track 10, in effect, climbing the ladder.  Once you're in on Track 10, again going parallel to the main line (or at least parallel to the other yard tracks), you're off the ladder. 

WMNB4THRTL
4. Yard-limit board

Trackside sign denoting the boundary of yard territory and rules.

The sign (on UP it's a distinctive yellow "V" shape; on some railroads it actually says "Yard Limit") doesn't necessarily denote a boundary, like a fence.  It just means that movements in that area are governed by Yard Limit rules (as opposed to CTC rules, Track warrant control, or whatever).  Generally, it means that any train moving on anything but a main track should be ready to encounter other movements anywhere.  Even on a main track within yard-limit territory, yard engines don't have to protect themselves against anything other than first-class trains (your rules may vary from this).

WMNB4THRTL
5.Unit

Commonly, a single machine (usually a diesel-electric), characterized by a single frame and a coupler at each end; technically, the smallest indivisible portion of a locomotive, which is made up of one or more units coupled together and under the control of a single engineer.

Technically, a locomotive consist at the front of a train, be it one unit or half a dozen, is one locomotive, since it's operated by one engineer.  The components are all locomotive units, which is often shortened to just "units".

WMNB4THRTL
6.Zombie

Slang term to denote a locomotive whose frame and trucks have been used as the basis for a low-powered re-engining.

Never heard this one.  It must refer to the previous incarnations of genset locomotives or other such.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

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Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, February 7, 2011 1:46 PM

WMNB4THRTL

1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)

If you're seeing lights on the front of a unit alternately flashing, yes, you're probably looking at ditch lights.  However, not all railroads' locomotive units are set up to flash their ditch lights in this way (close to home here, Metra's ditch lights flash like that, but UP's and BNSF's don't).  The flashing, by the way, is usually automatically tied in with the bell (on Conrail units, the horn could set it off, but sounding the horn also actuated the bell, so that's a moot point).

WMNB4THRTL
2. throwbar?

Paul North's answer is as good as you'll get on this subject!

WMNB4THRTL
3. Yard ladder

An angled track connecting successively the body tracks in a yard.

Picture a yard containing ten tracks, numbered from 1 to 10, all parallel to the main track, with yard track 1 adjacent to the main.  If you're heading off the main track into the yard, you'll leave the main track via a switch to the lard lead.  (Remember "lead"?).  Then you'll encounter another switch for Track 1, then curve away from the main track and encounter another switch for track 2, and more for track 3, track 4, etc.  You cross all of those switches to get to Track 10, in effect, climbing the ladder.  Once you're in on Track 10, again going parallel to the main line (or at least parallel to the other yard tracks), you're off the ladder. 

WMNB4THRTL
4. Yard-limit board

Trackside sign denoting the boundary of yard territory and rules.

The sign (on UP it's a distinctive yellow "V" shape; on some railroads it actually says "Yard Limit") doesn't necessarily denote a boundary, like a fence.  It just means that movements in that area are governed by Yard Limit rules (as opposed to CTC rules, Track warrant control, or whatever).  Generally, it means that any train moving on anything but a main track should be ready to encounter other movements anywhere.  Even on a main track within yard-limit territory, yard engines don't have to protect themselves against anything other than first-class trains (your rules may vary from this).

WMNB4THRTL
5.Unit

Commonly, a single machine (usually a diesel-electric), characterized by a single frame and a coupler at each end; technically, the smallest indivisible portion of a locomotive, which is made up of one or more units coupled together and under the control of a single engineer.

Technically, a locomotive consist at the front of a train, be it one unit or half a dozen, is one locomotive, since it's operated by one engineer.  The components are all locomotive units, which is often shortened to just "units".

WMNB4THRTL
6.Zombie

Slang term to denote a locomotive whose frame and trucks have been used as the basis for a low-powered re-engining.

Never heard this one.  It must refer to the previous incarnations of genset locomotives or other such.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    August 2008
  • From: Calgary AB. Canada
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Posted by AgentKid on Monday, February 7, 2011 4:43 PM

CShaveRR

 

 

 WMNB4THRTL:
4. Yard-limit board

 

Trackside sign denoting the boundary of yard territory and rules.

 

The sign (on UP it's a distinctive yellow "V" shape; on some railroads it actually says "Yard Limit") doesn't necessarily denote a boundary, like a fence.  It just means that movements in that area are governed by Yard Limit rules (as opposed to CTC rules, Track warrant control, or whatever).  Generally, it means that any train moving on anything but a main track should be ready to encounter other movements anywhere.  Even on a main track within yard-limit territory, yard engines don't have to protect themselves against anything other than first-class trains (your rules may vary from this).

 

Thank you Carl and Nancy. The question and answer coupled with some research I was doing Saturday night has finally helped shake the cobwebs out of my brain, and now I am able to look at old CPR ETT's (Employee Timetables) and figure out which towns had grain elevators. They were located were there wasn't always an open station. I always did have all the information I needed, but somehow I was never putting it all together.

I spent a really interesting evening Saturday night looking at Google Maps. I had never looked at satellite photos to trace the route of the Langdon Sub. from north of Irricana to Drumheller. I remember my Dad telling me that it was really a very scenic trip through the Kneehill Creek Valley and the crews used to say it was a shame tourists never got to see it. It was sort of mountain railroading on a small scale. There were grades, horseshoe curves, flange squealing virtual square corners, and deep cuts to pass through. At one time there were coal mines too, which is why it once paid to run trains there.

The track was pulled out in the mid seventies and it is amazing how much you can still pick out. A fair portion of the old ROW has now been used as a route for a secondary highway. Nobody around here knew about tourist railroads then, but if they had kept the 35 miles or so of track west of Drumheller it would be a money maker. I think. A dinner train pulled by a couple of high hood Geeps to deal with the terrain would have made a nice trip.

Ahh one can dream... now it is back to my cold snowy reality.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, February 7, 2011 6:04 PM

Thank you, thank you!! Thumbs UpThumbs Up

I'm currently working my way through all the posted 'Ask Trains' sections. When what to my wondering eyes should appear:

Q Are ditch lights required by federal law, or are they a railroad safety requirement? What are the rules regarding the installation and use of ditch lights? Must historic engines also have ditch lights?
-- Frank Harrell Jr., Fairburn, Ga.

A Ditch lights or auxiliary lights are required by federal law, and the basic requirements can be found in Part 229 of the Code of Federal Regulations. As of Dec. 31, 1997, any locomotive operating in the lead position at a speed greater than 20 mph over at least one public grade crossing requires ditch lights.

Basically, ditch lights - or auxiliary lights in federal parlance - must form a triangle with the locomotive's headlight with the base of the triangle sitting at least 36 inches above the railhead (24 inches for MU and control-cab locomotives). Furthermore, depending on the vertical distance from the headlight to the ditch lights, each ditch light must be spaced at least 36 inches apart (when the vertical distance is greater than 60 inches) or 60 inches apart (when the vertical distance is less than 60 inches). Whether or not ditch lights flash or burn steadily is up to each individual railroad. If they do flash, they must flash at a rate between 40 and 180 flashes per minute.

Further, if a railroad decides to use flashing ditch lights on its locomotives, it is
the railroad's responsibility to develop standard procedures and operating rules for using the lights near grade crossings.

Finally, a federal rule regarding auxiliary lights is in effect for historic locomotives not used in regular passenger or commuter service. Those built before Dec. 31, 1948, are exempt from the rule requiring ditch lights. Also, a locomotive equipped with oscillating lights that were ordered before Jan. 1, 1996, is considered to be in compliance with the federal regulations.
-- Sayre C. Kos

(this was from 2/2008) Huh! How ironic. As a side note (is that a siding?! Smile, Wink & Grin), that same issue has 2 Q&A re: signals.

Wow, will I ever learn enough to feel like I know anything about all this?! I'm getting there but I never dreamed there was so much to all this--WHEW!!! Back to work, etc.

Tags: Ditch lights

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Monday, February 7, 2011 7:09 PM

Oops, got so excited, I forgot to post my questions!

1. Is there a special tool for measuring track gauge, I imagine? What is it, etc? (Paul, sorry if we touched on this a while I ago, I can't remember it.)

2. How does a RR set out a bad car if they are in the middle of nowhere and not near a siding? Do they just have to 'drag' it along until they are in a good spot?

3. I know that steam roads have to drain their boilers if not in use for a period of time? How long is that, days, weeks? That's to prevent rust, right?

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

  • Member since
    August 2005
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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, February 7, 2011 10:20 PM

jeffhergert

Since signals are railroad specific, I can't guarantee this will work for every railroad.  There are some signals that are the same, and some that aren't.

Jeff

 

As Jeff says, one road may have its indication for a particular aspect--and another road will have another indication for the same aspect. A specific example: when the N&W was operating passenger trains into the Cincinnati Union termimal, it made use of rights over both the PRR and B&O. Both the B&O and the N&W used a lunar white--but the indication on the B&O was the opposite of that on the N&W. The engineer had to know which road he was on.

By the way, Nance, you have much more readily available information than I had when I began to take an interest in railroading. Back then, I relied on what was published in Trains and what I found in the few books I was able to purchase. You have the wealth of information that people who are immersed in the work and others, who have learned during the years that they have been fascinated by this means of transportation, are willing to share. I also learned directly from the men in the industry whom I was privileged to meet, especially when I began playing with the 12 inch to one foot scale railroad (I had no railroad to play with when I was little, but had to wait until I grew up to play).

Johnny

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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, February 7, 2011 10:24 PM

jeffhergert

Since signals are railroad specific, I can't guarantee this will work for every railroad.  There are some signals that are the same, and some that aren't.

Jeff

 

As Jeff says, one road may have its indication for a particular aspect--and another road will have another indication for the same aspect. A specific example: when the N&W was operating passenger trains into the Cincinnati Union termimal, it made use of rights over both the PRR and B&O. Both the B&O and the N&W used a lunar white--but the indication on the B&O was the opposite of that on the N&W. The engineer had to know which road he was on.

By the way, Nance, you have much more readily available information than I had when I began to take an interest in railroading. Back then, I relied on what was published in Trains and what I found in the few books I was able to purchase. You have the wealth of information that people who are immersed in the work and others, who have learned during the years that they have been fascinated by this means of transportation, are willing to share. I also learned directly from the men in the industry whom I was privileged to meet, especially when I began playing with the 12 inch to one foot scale railroad (I had no railroad to play with when I was little, but had to wait until I grew up to play).

Johnny

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    December 2005
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Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, February 8, 2011 6:42 AM

tree68

 WMNB4THRTL:

1. Are the ditch lights the ones that alternately flash? (called 'wig-wag' headlights on an emergency vehicle, I think.)

Yes, and no.  The lights that form the bottom corners of the triangle are technically auxiliary lights.  Some railroads use them in flash mode, some don't.  The idea is to have an easily identifiable sign that there's a train coming.

Auxiliary lights are often referred to as ditch lights, however.

Ditch lights, a Canadian innovation IIRC, actually point across the track into the opposite ditch.  I know of one locomotive that has both ditch and auxiliary lights, for a total of five.


I'll chime in here with an example, courtesy of Canadian National (CN) & British Columbia Railways (BCOL).  Each picture is clickable should you desire to see it larger.  BCOL units have double ditchlights because of the canyons in British Columbia where visibility was at a premium.  In the pictures of the same unit below (BCOL 4625; GE C40-8M) you can see the angles the lights are at.  The first picture shows a little more 'flare' from the top/left light than the bottom/left light.  It's aimed more across the tracks (towards engineer's side) than the bottom light.  The right side lights are just the opposite.  The bottom picture is more of a 'profile' view.
BCOL 4625 North


BCOL 4625

These lights are on all BCOL units that I've seen trackside. 

Dan

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Posted by zardoz on Tuesday, February 8, 2011 9:05 AM

WMNB4THRTL

2. How does a RR set out a bad car if they are in the middle of nowhere and not near a siding? Do they just have to 'drag' it along until they are in a good spot?

Yup!

Especially fun if one is dealing with a business-end drawbar extraction. 

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Tuesday, February 8, 2011 4:03 PM

WMNB4THRTL

3. I know that steam roads have to drain their boilers if not in use for a period of time? How long is that, days, weeks? That's to prevent rust, right?

Well, I got this answer through a personal contact. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post it and/or PM it to them. Many thanks for all the help.

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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Posted by WMNB4THRTL on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 1:34 PM

Good afternoon, all.

I'm going back over some aspects about air brakes. I've seen where a rule says, "Bottling or canning of air is prohibited." Just what is that and why is it prohibited?

Thanks.

Tags: Air Brakes

Nance-CCABW/LEI 

“Even if you are on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.” --Will Rogers

Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right! --unknown

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