Art, I should have said "for a period, Brighton Park had three wyes". You are right, the track configuration at many of these junctions changed considerably over the years. One of the wyes shown in the diagram is in the NW quadrant.
Bob
Bob (Pullman Jct), track is not laid in concrete, so the configuration changes through the years. At the time the B&O was in control of the Alton, there was a connector track in the the northwest quadrant, the one devoid of a connector in your diagram.
I have a map that shows all quadrants having connectors. Today, none have.
Art
Brighton Park had wyes in three of four quadrants.
The definition of long depends on money, I suspect. The book "Chicago Union Station" by Edward M. DeRouin tells about that when the Alton was a ward of the B&O, road power would back the passenger trains out of Union down past the Brighton Park crossing, then pull them up the B&OCT tracks to their facilities at Lincoln St /Robey St. After servicing and restocking, they would take them back the same way. (Robey is along side the St. Charles Air Line, a stone's throw from Union. Go figure.)
The diagram in the book shows a connector track only in the northwest quadrant, but to reverse the train and back it into Union, they would have to use a connector in the southwest quadrant. The Google aerial view shows that there were, at one time, connector tracks in both quadrants, as do maps of that time period and earlier.
The book further states that in 1942, Brighton Park resumed those activities. Diesel maintenance, however was done down south, E's at St.Louis and F's at Venice Yard.
As a measure of long, to turn its passenger trains, the Milwaukee used the wye at Pacific Junction, 5.4 miles from Union and west of their yard facilities near N. Sacramento Blvd.
pullman jct California Ave was GM&O's passenger facility. It served Amtrak's Turboliners for a while.
California Ave was GM&O's passenger facility. It served Amtrak's Turboliners for a while.
Either way, Glenn Yard or California Avenue was a long way away from Union Station. Since GM&O used PRR tracks to reach Union Station, I wonder why GM&O did not bargain to use PRR facilties for passenger cars. The PRR facility was right there north of the lift bridge.
Alton Junction
I believe that Glenn was also the servicing point for GM&O's passenger trains in the immediate pre-Amtrak era, which meant a long back-up move to or from Union Station.
Rich,
Alton/GM&O's main freight yard was Glenn Yard. They also had a small yard west of Halsted to serve the industries along the river east of Bridgeport, such as Cuneo. There were several others.
pullman jct Rich, I checked a document in my collection that lists all Chicago Switching District freight customers and the railroads that served them, dated December 1956. Cuneo was served exclusively by the GM&O. The track that serviced Cuneo and other GM&O customers along the river connected to the yard west of Halsted.
Rich, I checked a document in my collection that lists all Chicago Switching District freight customers and the railroads that served them, dated December 1956. Cuneo was served exclusively by the GM&O. The track that serviced Cuneo and other GM&O customers along the river connected to the yard west of Halsted.
Well, there you go !
Which raises another question. Where did GM&O store its freight cars and where did it turn its freight engines?
Rich
Somebody asked earlier in this thread which railroad serviced the Cuneo Press which was located on the northwest corner of Alton Junction.
That got me curious about the Cuneo Press building(s), the railroad that served the facilities, and the surrounding area. I found some great photos and other useful information at the following link:
http://forgottenchicago.com/features/chicago-areas/grove-street/
Here is an excerpt from that link.
Grove Street is a small diagonal street that runs southwest, starting east of Canal street north of Cermak, ending at the Illinois Central railroad embankment opposite Archer. The street used to connect to the intersection of Archer and Normal. Long-disused rails cut through the middle of Grove Street, which continue west along the embankment after the street ends. The street was once longer.
The Cuneo Press was one of the largest commercial printing plants in the country. The company was in business for 70 years, closing when owner and founder John Cuneo died in 1977. The architect of the Cuneo press buildings was the incredibly prolific Alfred Alschuler. Most of the Cuneo Press buildings were used to stage the climactic final sequence of the 1991 film Backdraft. Unfortunately, this involved burning the buildings, which were subsequently demolished.
artschlosser Great photo, Rich. I just a wee lad when that was taken. I was six when my folks took me and my brother to see the worlds fair in Chicago. I kept gazing at locomotives and trains while my parents went on towards other things. Richard came running up to me and saved me from being lost. Sure wish this map continued further south and west. http://chicago.urban-history.org/dist/loop/chicago1.pdf Did you notice the Tribune map said depot number 3 serviced the Panhandle but it doesn't show the Panhandle's route to the depot? Some sources say the Panhandle wanted to use the Milwaukee's route next to the Northwestern, and other sources said the Milwaukee wanted to use the Panhandle's route along side the Northwestern. It came from the south and went up the west side of Western because Western was the Chicago's city limit so land on the west side wasn't subject to Chicago's charges. I sure like old maps and pictorial photos. Art
Great photo, Rich. I just a wee lad when that was taken. I was six when my folks took me and my brother to see the worlds fair in Chicago. I kept gazing at locomotives and trains while my parents went on towards other things. Richard came running up to me and saved me from being lost.
Sure wish this map continued further south and west.
http://chicago.urban-history.org/dist/loop/chicago1.pdf
Did you notice the Tribune map said depot number 3 serviced the Panhandle but it doesn't show the Panhandle's route to the depot? Some sources say the Panhandle wanted to use the Milwaukee's route next to the Northwestern, and other sources said the Milwaukee wanted to use the Panhandle's route along side the Northwestern. It came from the south and went up the west side of Western because Western was the Chicago's city limit so land on the west side wasn't subject to Chicago's charges.
I sure like old maps and pictorial photos.
Art,
That is a wonderful map, and I agree that it would be great if it extended further south and west.
I love that Wells used to be called Fifth Avenue. I never knew that.
West Water Street ran along the west bank of the South Branch of the Chicago River. It ran in the current location of the north approaches to Chicago Union Station and was vacated years ago. As far as I know, the predecessor to Wacker Drive along the South Branch was always Market Street.
Let me correct something that I have been misstating. I have referred to a map that I have from 1931 detailing the trackage from Polk Street to 21st Street showing the C&WI as well as ATSF and IC.
The correct date is actually December 1953.
Here is a link to the map which is the third one down on the page:
http://www.railsandtrails.com/Maps/Chicago/index.htm
It is a DjVu file that requires a free download from Lizard Tech to view.
The title of the map is:
Chicago & Western Indiana RailroadHarrison Street to 22nd Street Track MapDearborn Station
I am not sure why I kept referring to the date as 1931.
In any event, once downloaded, this is a superdetailed map that I cannot get enough of.
I admit it, I am obsessed with this area.
South Water St. Freight Terminal. 1943 photos by Jack Delano
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34785v.jpg WrigleyTrib
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34787v.jpg NKP C&O
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34775v.jpg NYC
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34780v.jpg reefers
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34786v.jpg Pabst
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34782v.jpg Blue
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34781v.jpg Ribbon
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34791v.jpg Beer
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/service/pnp/fsac/1a34000/1a34700/1a34777v.jpg caboose
Art, I wouldn't dismiss the Alton using a depot at South Water St. on the IC for a short time. Remember that the Alton preceded the PFW&C by a few years. It was very straightforward for the Alton to continue NE along the route of the mystery tracks and join the SCAL at 16th St.
The connections to the Rock Island and SCAL from the Alton tracks can be clearly seen in the photo that Rich linked. Zoom in on 16th St.
One of my favorite photos of the area is this one, shot by the Chicago Aerial Survey Company at the time of the straightening of the Chicago River.
http://encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/10583.html
The photo can be manipulated to get some very nice close in views. It shows the area from 18th Street north al the way to LaSalle Street. Dearborn Station and the tracks leading to it can also be seen east of Clark Street.
The photo is looking north. Those bridges at the bottom of the photo span the C&WI, IC and ATSF tracks at 18th Street. Two blocks farther north is 16th Street and the St. Charles Air Line. Four more blocks farther north is the Roosevelt Road overpass where railfans could watch trains coming and going to five of the six passenger stations in downtown Chicago.
I hope you enjoy the photo as much as I do.
That is one cool map. I must have MDD, Map Deficit Disorder. Where do you guys come up with these maps and diagrams. I love it !
West Water Street, well I'll be ! That map shows Market Street east of the river which is now Wacker Drive. I am surprised they didn't name it East Water Street. So, is that what wanswheel was referring to?
Thanks for sharing.
Rich, I thought that maybe the C&A ran up the east side of the river just west of the CWI tracks, but that's definitely out.
On an old map, there's a West Water running sort of North/South just west of the river and stops at Madison Street, about a half block or so east of Canal with a station a half block below. So this is probably the station 'at the foot of Water Street'. This same street shows on today's Chicago map as NW Water Street and still stops at Madison.
The track continues north, crosses the Northwest track that goes east to the station on Kinsie, then crosses the river and continues north along N. Kingsbury. This of course, is an old Milwaukee spur that ran along side the Northside "L", but looks like it was an early Milwaukee entrance into Chicago.
The map is a Chicago Tribune map but the stations are listed, and it's serving the 5 railroads that used the first Union station when it was built.
The map url:
http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/chi1890/G4104-C6-1893-R363.html
artschlosser Thanks, Paul, I had thought that before Wacker, it was Water. Suspect the foot of South Water would currently be somewhere in the vicinity of just west of Old Grand Central Station. Names and norms change through the ages. Art
Thanks, Paul, I had thought that before Wacker, it was Water. Suspect the foot of South Water would currently be somewhere in the vicinity of just west of Old Grand Central Station.
Names and norms change through the ages.
Grand Central Station was on the other side of the Loop at Harrison and Wells.
Central Station was south of the Chicago River by one and one half miles at Roosevelt Road and Michigan Avenue. The IC terminus was a so-so station at South Water Street. After the Prudential Building was erected in 1954, IC commuter trains used the sub-basement of the Prudential Building as its station. The platforms extend all the way to South Water Street to this day.
artschlosser Nice info Mike, but just one question, just where is South Water Street? Searched a few old maps, so far, and can't find it. I did enjoy the ads in the City Directory though. Especially the piano-forte ad; haven't heard it referred to by it's full name since Daniel was a pup. My home town used to publish a city directory. If Chicago issued one nowadays with the info present in that old one, it would have to weigh a ton! In my quest of 'Where is South Water Street?',,I've uncovered a few, not quite gem quality, items. http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/chi1890/ Interesting set of maps. http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/chi1900/ From the above url, a map of the business district showing railroads. Doesn't seem detailed enough. http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/maps/chi1900/G4104-C6P3-1904-T3-N.html Art
Nice info Mike, but just one question, just where is South Water Street? Searched a few old maps, so far, and can't find it.
I did enjoy the ads in the City Directory though. Especially the piano-forte ad; haven't heard it referred to by it's full name since Daniel was a pup. My home town used to publish a city directory. If Chicago issued one nowadays with the info present in that old one, it would have to weigh a ton!
South Water Street is shown on that first map link !
CSSHEGEWISCH South Water Street was/is an east-west street along the south bank of the Chicago River, most of which was replaced by the double-decked Wacker Drive in the 1920's. There is a short stretch by that name running east of Wabash, one block north of Lake Street.
South Water Street was/is an east-west street along the south bank of the Chicago River, most of which was replaced by the double-decked Wacker Drive in the 1920's. There is a short stretch by that name running east of Wabash, one block north of Lake Street.
Wacker Drive now extends east all the way to Lake Shore Drive.
South Water Street is a two block stretch running east-west between Michigan Avenue and Columbus Drive. It is a block north of Lake Street as CSSHEGEWISCH said. Wacker Drive turns northeast at Michigan Avenue and then runs parallel to the Chicago River down to Lake Shore Drive. South Water Street is actually the eastern extension of Wacker Drive had it continued due east.
On the north side of the Chicago River is North Water Street, running in an east-west direction from Rush Street on the west to just short of Lake Shore Drive on the east. North Water Street is actually the eastern extension of Kinzie beginning at Rush Street.
Chicago loves to give multiple names to its streets.
Location of depots in 1855:
Galena & Chicago Union, corner of Wells and North Water
Chicago, Burlington & Quincy, corner of Wells and North Water
Michigan Southern, corner of Van Buren and Sherman
Chicago & Rock Island, corner of Van Buren and Sherman
Chicago & Milwaukee, North Branch, near Kinzie
Chicago, St. Paul & Fond du Lac, North Branch, north of Kinzie
Illinois Central, foot of South Water
Michigan Central, foot of South Water
Chicago, Alton & St. Louis, foot of South Water
http://books.google.com/books?id=lN8CAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA204#v=onepage&q&f=true
Historical data about St. Charles Air Line
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=pphhdatapage&fileName=il/il0800/il0837/data/hhdatapage.db&recNum=3
Mike
pullman jct A few more bits of info. According to an article about the St Charles Airline in the ICHS Green Diamond, the crossing at 21st St was rearranged between 1899 and 1901. The article mentions that at this time the Alton operated left handed. That is shown in the first diagram that I posted and is the reason for the crossing/double slip close to the bridge. The article also indicates that before 16th St was elevated, the ATSF/C&WI junction was east of the RI/NYC/SCAL crossings. That explains the origin of the two ATSF tracks south of the IC between 16th St and 21st St. Here is a map from the 1915 Smoke Abatement book. This shows the two Alton lines coming in from the west, just like the other diagram. It also shows that the east end of the Alton tracks crossing the entire mess of trackage connected to the joint Rock Island/NYC line and the SCAL. The map comes out too small to make out the details here. I can share the original for anyone interested.
A few more bits of info. According to an article about the St Charles Airline in the ICHS Green Diamond, the crossing at 21st St was rearranged between 1899 and 1901. The article mentions that at this time the Alton operated left handed. That is shown in the first diagram that I posted and is the reason for the crossing/double slip close to the bridge. The article also indicates that before 16th St was elevated, the ATSF/C&WI junction was east of the RI/NYC/SCAL crossings. That explains the origin of the two ATSF tracks south of the IC between 16th St and 21st St.
Here is a map from the 1915 Smoke Abatement book. This shows the two Alton lines coming in from the west, just like the other diagram. It also shows that the east end of the Alton tracks crossing the entire mess of trackage connected to the joint Rock Island/NYC line and the SCAL. The map comes out too small to make out the details here. I can share the original for anyone interested.
pullman jct,
Thank you so much for this latest information and diagram. You continue to pull rabbits out of the hat.
I would be very grateful if you could provide me with an original copy of that diagram. I have sent you a PM.
I mentioned in my original post that I am seriously considering a layout in HO scale that covers Dearborn Station at Polk Street to Alton Junction at 21st Street and Stewart, including the ATSF passenger car facility between 16th and 18th Streets. Initially, my main interest was in capturing the correct trackage for the AT&SF. When I started planning the layout, the Chicago & Alton was not even an issue in my mind. But, then the appearance of the Alton tracks east of the Junction in a 1931 map began to raise questions in my mind. That led to obsession with the source of the trackage west of the Junction and the terminus of the trackage at 16th Street.
From all the information and diagrams that you and others have provided, it seems that the C&A first reached Chicago downtown passenger facilities via the Rock Island tracks to LaSalle Street Station crossing the C&WI tracks at Alton Junction at 21st Street. Later, it switched to the IC Central Station further east via the St. Charles Air Line. Still later, it switched to the Union Station on the west side of the Chicago River via the PRR tracks at the bridge over the Chicago River just northwest of Alton Junction. Apparently, sometime between 1900 and 1930, the connecting tracks over the C&WI tracks at Alton Junction were removed leaving only the C&A tracks from 21st Street (east of the Alton Junction) to 16th Street in place. The straightening of the Chicago River in 1929 may have had something to do with all of that trackage realignment. Obviously, the elevation of the tracks at 16th Street with the erection of the St. Charles Air Line years earlier also had an effect on the C&A trackage.
Incidentally, from a review of this latest diagram, it is interesting to note the existence of two sets of C&A tracks running to the southwest from Alton Junction, supporting your view that the northern most tracks were the original Alton main line.
Thank you again for this latest information. I greatly appreciate it.
Wdlgln005 In the MBI IC book, it states at first the IC used the Galena & Chicago Union (C&NW) to get from Chicago to Freeport. Later, this traffic shifted to the Chicago & Iowa RR (CB&Q). In 1886 work began on it's own line. The IC depended on other lines for the first several miles west of Chicago. In 1891 the Chicago line was completed with the St Charles Air Line. The Air Line provides the connection between IC's north-south & East West lines. I have seen other pictures where other roads would have transfer service to the GM&O's Glenn yard. Because of the angle of the crossing, interchange from the GM&O to PRR south may have been via a backup move. Not sure what connections were possible in Brighton.
In the MBI IC book, it states at first the IC used the Galena & Chicago Union (C&NW) to get from Chicago to Freeport. Later, this traffic shifted to the Chicago & Iowa RR (CB&Q). In 1886 work began on it's own line. The IC depended on other lines for the first several miles west of Chicago. In 1891 the Chicago line was completed with the St Charles Air Line. The Air Line provides the connection between IC's north-south & East West lines.
I have seen other pictures where other roads would have transfer service to the GM&O's Glenn yard. Because of the angle of the crossing, interchange from the GM&O to PRR south may have been via a backup move. Not sure what connections were possible in Brighton.
Glenn,
Thanks for that info. This is like putting together a jigsaw puzzle. It is very helpful and informative to me to see this all coming together.
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