Concurning coupler behavior. Until some time in the 1970's they were plain knuckle couplers. Then there were a series of accidents in which couplers "by-passed", that is one slid out over the other, and punctured a tank car. At that point the NTSB/FRA decided that the solution was double shelf couplers on hazmat tank cars. With the double shelf the adjacent coupler can not bypass or override. That was the theory and it proved to be mostly true, entirely so in my personal experience. After a few year's of experience the railroads found that the bottom shelf had the happy side benefit of preventing the extricated drawbar of the adjacent car from falling between the ties which reduced the probablity of derailment. Many railroads put bottom shelf couplers on their car as an alternate standard. As I recall Union Pacific was one of the early adopters of bottom shelf couplers for their own equipment. Bottom shelf couplers may be required on all new cars now but I do not know that for a fact.
Of course there is no free lunch. Soon after the double shelf changeover kicked in I got called to a derailment in Pennsylvania. One or two cars had derailed in the usual manner. The following five tank cars of caustic soda had all derailed the same axle the same way as twisting forces transmitted by the shelf couplers managed to shove the flange over the rail at low speed.
For a couple of years I made it a point to photograph the behavior of shelf couplers in derailments. I found that in a high speed derailment that stacks the cars in the middle like cordwood, an action seen at the end of this tape, the most likely result was that one or the other coupler shank would break right behind the head with no other obvious effect.
My personal opinion in this case is that the first car to derail was four or five back. You can hear the air go before you see anything. The first four cars were all covered hoppers and I suspect one or two of them were empty, that would make it easier for the wind to tip them over. Note that the most distant two cars ultimately separate from the car behind the engine and the one behind it. I suspect they either bypassed or broke a shank. The two cars near the engine appeared to stay together and the one next to the power clearly stayed coupled. I suspect that the UP covered hopper next to the power had bottom shelf couplers and they held. I think that in this case the result was to deflect the oncoming tank car from the left, looking back to the right. That deflection may have saved that tank car from failure in the accident because the tank head was dropped down aimed right at the locomotive's coupler. If that car was in fact the ethylene oxide tank, two people are in my opinion alive because the cars stayed coupled and a shelf coupler is the most likely reason they did so.
Mac
We have had some discussion here in the past about the pros and cons of track guard rails. The bridge in this wreck had track guard rails that terminated straight rather than curving inward to join each other at the end, as had been more or less standard practice for a long time.
I can’t see how the lead truck of the tank car reacts to encountering the track guard rails. The appearance of sparks on the left side of the truck leads me to believe that it was derailed during the approach. It also appears that the tank is slightly off center to the left of the track when it first becomes recognizable during the approach. The purpose of track guard rails is to keep a derailed car on the bridge deck as it crosses. I don’t know if the track guard rails would have accomplished that, since the truck was running true (although likely derailed) during the entire approach sequence, and may have just kept running true even if the bridge had no track guard rails.
Whatever the effect of the track guard rails was, it was not sufficient to prevent the tank from fouling the plate girder alongside of the bridge deck. You can see a flash of sparks and hear the impact bang as the tank corners the bridge girder. That collision causes the tank to bounce up and down, which apparently leads to the disintegration of the lead truck. You can see the axles of the wheelsets drop out at about 1:25. Apparently some action in the breakup of the lead truck causes more bounce and throws the tank against the side of the deck girder, which guides the tank just before the tank hits the hopper.
My wife wants to know if what the crew heard sounded like a freight train when the tornado hit?
yellowducky My wife wants to know if what the crew heard sounded like a freight train when the tornado hit?
Help! I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe!
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 yellowducky My wife wants to know if what the crew heard sounded like a freight train when the tornado hit? Help! I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe!
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
One thing sure is for sure, someone from a higher power was watching over that train that day. If that hopper wasn't in the way, I think the outcome would have been much worse. It seems to me that the couplers would have broken beetween the -8 and that 1st hopper. I wonder why? Also depending on how much train you are pulling, the weight, and track conditions, just because the EOTD said the train was in emergancy doesn't mean it was stopped. Right?
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
bubbajustinOne thing sure is for sure, someone from a higher power was watching over that train that day.
If 'someone' was truly watching over the train, wouldn't 'they' have caused the tornado to go away, or cause the train be delayed so as to not have been there at all during the tornado, or perhaps had the train going faster so it would pass the area before the tornado, or perhaps .....etc.......
And to answer your railroad question: correct. The EOT will indicate both air pressure as well as motion (or lack thereof).
You hear the air dump in the engine. The train was not going that fast. Why didn't the brakes on the cars lockup. I seen the sparks under the tank. It looked like debris across the rails from the dropped cars.
As for the camers. The South Shore placed one in every cab on the fireman's side. They video what is ahead and behind.On the old cars that is two cameras per car and married pair of the new cars.
BaltACD tree68 yellowducky My wife wants to know if what the crew heard sounded like a freight train when the tornado hit? Help! I'm laughing so hard I can't breathe! Another forum I participate in posed the question that if a Tornado sounds like a freight train, then correspondingly a freight train must sound like a tornado...if that is the case then...do the noises cancel each other out? Pondering that could make you head explode...
I'm confused.....the horn that was heard, was that the train or the tornado sounding its horn for the collision with the train?
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
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spikejones52002 You hear the air dump in the engine. The train was not going that fast. Why didn't the brakes on the cars lockup.
Track speed in that area was 30-40 mph. Even dumping the air, it will take a half mile or more to stop at that speed. The engines by themselves stopped quicker, even if the hogger bailed off, as the PCS cuts the power when the air goes.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
WSOR 3801the PCS cuts the power when the air goes.
That was awesome. When I took Southwest Chief a few years ago across Kansas, we were on a slow or stop order a good part of the night. I'd wake up in my sleeper and could tell we were barely moving or had stopped. The next day, my car attendant said there had been high winds and tornados all around us. When the wind gets above 60 mph, Amtrak has to run very slow or stop. I don't know if freight railroads are restricted that way or not. I wouldn't want to be in a Superliner car up high and get blown over. They sway more than the old coach cars anyway. The only time I can remember a lot of swaying was coming back with my parents on NYC from New York and the sleepers had been taken off, so the diner was the last car. As we ate, the car kept swaying without it's rear anchor, like a mild crack-the-whip. And I saw a large freight wreck from the windows of the UP City of St. Louis somewhere in Calif, the porter had told us to watch for it and we did. Cars were smashed and spread out all along the track as we crawled past.
Here is a little follow up. Turn down the speaker volume first. The music is loud and obnoxious. Scroll down and read the text.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aB08ASei28
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Here are some other tornado train meets many years ago.
http://www.islandnet.com/~see/weather/history/tornadotrains.htm
Amazing Video, Thank You!
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
zardoz bubbajustinOne thing sure is for sure, someone from a higher power was watching over that train that day. If 'someone' was truly watching over the train, wouldn't 'they' have caused the tornado to go away, or cause the train be delayed so as to not have been there at all during the tornado, or perhaps had the train going faster so it would pass the area before the tornado, or perhaps .....etc....... And to answer your railroad question: correct. The EOT will indicate both air pressure as well as motion (or lack thereof).
Well, some things I just can't answer... Nevertheless of the diffrence of thought, don't you agree that it's a good thing that that hopper was in the way? I mean, it would have just plowed into the locomotive. Sure, the hopper did too, but it was coupled.
richg1998Here is a little follow up.
Here is a little follow up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSKv4KZlrA
DennisHeldrichg1998 Here is a little follow up. Here's a YouTube of the actual tornado, but not near the Lawrence train scene. BTW, they just showed the YouTube of the derailment of WGN, Chicago on the news. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSKv4KZlrA
richg1998 Here is a little follow up.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
zardozWSOR 3801the PCS cuts the power when the air goes. Is that feature still operational these days? Many years ago there were many discussions on the old CNW regarding the desireability of this feature. It was concluded that having it active is a really bad idea; consequently, the PCS was disabled on our locomotives.
Is that feature still operational these days? Many years ago there were many discussions on the old CNW regarding the desireability of this feature. It was concluded that having it active is a really bad idea; consequently, the PCS was disabled on our locomotives.
Every engine I've been on has it functional. Even UP engines on rock trains, and the ones WSOR bought at the UP scrap sales. One of our customers had a SW1 that seemed to predate the PCS feature. They would try to drag around empty boxcars that were dumped. Many other things they would do out there.
jeatonDennisHeldrichg1998 Here is a little follow up. Here's a YouTube of the actual tornado, but not near the Lawrence train scene. BTW, they just showed the YouTube of the derailment of WGN, Chicago on the news. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YSKv4KZlrA
Thanks for activating my link. The Harvard tornado shown was just after passing Lawrence. Harvard is my hometown and i grew up 2 miles north of the tornado's path. My mother lives in a house that was 2 miles south of the tornado. The police cruiser seen by the overturned semi was driven by my nephew, a Harvard policeman. He was pulled from the semi scene to help with the hazmat evacuation at the Lawrence derailment. The storm chasers had the highway wrong. Highway 23 doesn't go north of Harvard. They were actually on highway 14.
bubbajustinWell, some things I just can't answer...
bubbajustindon't you agree that it's a good thing that that hopper was in the way?
WSOR 3801 zardoz WSOR 3801the PCS cuts the power when the air goes. Is that feature still operational these days? Many years ago there were many discussions on the old CNW regarding the desireability of this feature. It was concluded that having it active is a really bad idea; consequently, the PCS was disabled on our locomotives. Every engine I've been on has it functional. Even UP engines on rock trains, and the ones WSOR bought at the UP scrap sales. One of our customers had a SW1 that seemed to predate the PCS feature. They would try to drag around empty boxcars that were dumped. Many other things they would do out there.
zardoz WSOR 3801the PCS cuts the power when the air goes. Is that feature still operational these days? Many years ago there were many discussions on the old CNW regarding the desireability of this feature. It was concluded that having it active is a really bad idea; consequently, the PCS was disabled on our locomotives.
If the emergency is initiated back in the train, many UP engines now have a 20 second delay before losing power when the PCS opens.
Jeff
.
Kootenay Central The senior Engineers 6 decades ago said that they could put a steam engine on a freight train into emergency from the brake stand for, say, a truck at a crossing, which then cleared, and go back to Release, then Running, and carry on as before with no stop.
The senior Engineers 6 decades ago said that they could put a steam engine on a freight train into emergency from the brake stand for, say, a truck at a crossing, which then cleared, and go back to Release, then Running, and carry on as before with no stop.
Some of the 24RL brake valves had a 'full release' feature on the opposite side of the 'emergency' portion. This feature would put 'straight air' directly into the trainline, causing a much faster release; however there was always a danger of overcharging the trainline by doing this, as main drum pressure (~130psi) was sent through.
Kootenay Central Apparently, in the glory days of steam, a train stalled in a long tunnel amidst the sound of the exhaust and the smoke filling the cab. The Engineer, hunched in his seat with the window closed against the fumes, never shut off, and noticed nothing awry until the Conductor, who had walked up from the Caboose tapped him on the shoulder wondering why they had stopped in the tunnel. The drivers had cut down to the ties, so they say.
Apparently, in the glory days of steam, a train stalled in a long tunnel amidst the sound of the exhaust and the smoke filling the cab.
The Engineer, hunched in his seat with the window closed against the fumes, never shut off, and noticed nothing awry until the Conductor, who had walked up from the Caboose tapped him on the shoulder wondering why they had stopped in the tunnel.
The drivers had cut down to the ties, so they say.
I have often wondered: just how do you get the engine and train out? Jack sufficient wheels up to give working room, remove the damaged rails, and put new rails in?
Johnny
trainfan1221 I didn't get a clear impression the train was trying to stop, only that it definitely ran into something. A tornado that close might not be all that visible, also it might have run into it just forming. Either way, the engine seemed to remain intact, at least until the rest of the train came running after it.
I didn't get a clear impression the train was trying to stop, only that it definitely ran into something. A tornado that close might not be all that visible, also it might have run into it just forming. Either way, the engine seemed to remain intact, at least until the rest of the train came running after it.
I thought the US Weather Service would have giving the warning to the R.R. and able to stop the train. Like everyone say's "January". oh boy!
Awesome!trainfan1221 I didn't get a clear impression the train was trying to stop, only that it definitely ran into something. A tornado that close might not be all that visible, also it might have run into it just forming. Either way, the engine seemed to remain intact, at least until the rest of the train came running after it. I thought the US Weather Service would have giving the warning to the R.R. and able to stop the train. Like everyone say's "January". oh boy!
Even though the tornado was on the ground in Poplar Grove, IL (15 miles to the SW) the sirens didn't sound in Harvard until the tornado had passed. So, residents didn't get a warning. But a January tornado in northern IL is extremely rare.
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