Plastic Ties?!?

[UPTRAIN]

They don't rot or crack...go for it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainheartedguy

Id like to see some of these composite ties. CSX is slowly converting to Concrete in Maryland because unlike the wood ties, which need replaced every 7 years, they last 25 years. How long would composite ties last.

Major problem with concrete ties is they don't survive derailments. All must be replaced. With wood, a pretty good percentage will survive all but major derailments with some digs and gouges. Another issue with conmcrete is it doesn't work well in swampy areas as the concrete ties tend to settle more in soft soil conditions due to their weight.

Concrete, plastic and steel ties are all significantly more expensive than wood.

LC

[UPTRAIN]

True...railroads are needing more crews which means they must pay them so they are going to have to save money to pay crews with so they will maybe stick with wood for a few more years. UP just made a major line rehabilitation project on the Desoto sub and Chester subs...over 2 million ties replaced...all wood.

[UPTRAIN]

I have seen insulated rail joiners on grain elevator sidings next to crossings where they rejoin the mainline...the locals can pull up there close to the mainline near the crossings and not trip the gates and lights.

[bobgroh]

Here is some more background on the Cedrite tie. It was made by Harmon Industries (Kansas City area - now a part of GE Transportation Systems) back in the late 80's and early 90's. It was really a pretty neat idea - they used old ties, ground them up, mixed with an epoxy like material, placed the mixture (with a stiffner) in molds under pressure and then cured the mixture. They had a lot of problems with consistency - yields were a real problem. Plus machinery problems. After a couple of years and a bunch of money, Harmon threw in the towel and abandoned the process. When the ties were good, they were pretty darn good. Plus they used up old ties which, because the old ties were loaded with creosote, were a hazardous material and difficult to dispose of in other fashions. I believe, at least for the Cedrite/Harmon ties, that conventional fastening means were used (i.e. spikes, etc). Would be interested in more details on the 'plastic' ones reported in this thread.

[Anonymous]

I work for the local transit authority here in Utah, and we are expanding our light rail car yard. One of the new tracks added on to the side of the current building is being laid with plastic ties. It will be covered with a concrete floor, but right now they look JUST like weathered Atlas code 100 flex track (black ties with silver track!!!) I understand some of the new yard storage tracks will be done with these ties as well. The whole yard is currently reused wood ties (from the original track our mainline now occupies) and spikes with jointed rail. It feels just like your operating over some Atlas snap track! Our mainline is all concrete ties (with the exception of switches which are wood, and even some of those have been converted to concrete ties (another story all together!) ) with welded rail. The only joints are switches and IJ's (insulated joints, for signaling purposes) so the ride is very SMOOOOOOTH.

[Anonymous]

I wonder how much plastic is in a composit tie? How much does it wiegh in relation to concrete or wood? How and where are they made? Just the specs and only the specs if you don`t mind![2c][(-D][swg]

[Puckdropper]

QUOTE:
Of course the railroads don't mess with undertable mounting, and perfer to go with more of the Atlas style machine, only scaled down.

They used to hide the switch machines in a nearby building... ;-)

[Anonymous]

The ties in question are a new type of composite material that includes among other things ground glass and used pulverized tires. They are injection molded by some very large and sophisticated machines. One of these machines was manufactured in Salt Lake City, UT and sent to Texas recently.

The Union Pacific Rairoad has oredered one million ties at approximately $55.00 per tie and plans to replace ties in the sourthern region of their rairoad in areas where wooden ties especially are beginning to deteriorate.

These ties are not like the old "plastic" ties. They are extremely tough and durable with an estimated life span of over 200 years. They have a "memory" in that they can be hand or machine spiked and the material will shrink around the spike and hold them in extremely well. The ties will resemble a wooden tie in color and texture having an ingrained pattern to give the ties "tooth" that will prevent movement or slippage in the ballast. Each tie weighs in at over 250 plus pounds and can be made in various sizes and lengths. (Compared to other types of ties the cost factor is getting close with $45.00 a tie being average in price for the others.)

I would look for many more of these types of ties in the future with the cost of wooden tie replacement going up, and the cost of the newer plastic ties going down especially with more railroads starting to use them .

The potential envionmental savings brought about by using recycled componants with the added benefit of being less damaging to the environment than their chemically preserved predesessors, plus the fact that they won't need replacing for an extremelly long period of time, would seem to make very good economic sense.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Hey gang, we're famous!!! This topic was chosen as a feature for the email update!!! Thanks Mark and Bergie!!!!

[Anonymous]

It looks like Morristown & Erie installed them in my back yard in Roseland , Bill

[d4fal]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Norfolk Southern

Why dont they just stick with the old way with wooden ties? But I guess it is better because with wooden ties they break a lot and they cause problems. So I guess its just for safety :)

Also cost and availability. If you think about it, a railroad uses a lot of ties in its system, and the availability of wooden ties is not there any more.

Another thing is, the creosote is a very hazardous chemical. It is one of those chemicals that in the future could be banned. They need to look for alternate ways to get away from this hazardous chemical.

[mudchicken]

FYI:

(1) There currently is a shortage of creosoted timber ties nationwide,
(2) Best wood tie out there is an azobe tie (african hardwood), no preservative & hard as concrete.
(3) Glass silicate may replace creosote if they can perfect the process. Phillips66 is out with a new non-creosote, non-borate preservative. Testing goes as we speak.
(4) Most preservatives have penetration problems into the wood fibers..
(5) Like Tree, I do NOT want to be anywhere near a structural plastic beam (OK in compression with lots of extra support, lousy in tension)....Joist spacing to support a TREX plastic lumber deck is considerably less than wood as a for instance.
(6) Concrete ties in the swamps on questionable subgrades? Not around me! Outta here, bye-bye! (Try to find the track section after it oozes into the mud!)

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Okay, guys, what we need now is someone to find and photograph a compromise joint, (hint, common in yard throats, and industrial leads).

Ask, and ye shall receive (albeit a after a while). Note that this is on a mainline (CSX Montreal Secondary) adjacent to a road crossing. The joint takes quite a beating - I've seen it flex a couple of inches under each wheel of a train...


Nora asked the function of the plastic bottle. Probably just for ambience....

[mudchicken]

Outside Gage Right!

Larry - You are too quick. (Took a picture of a "step joint" yesterday in Trinidad to appeal Ed's call to arms!)..Gues I'll go find a compromise thermite weld now.

MC