This evening while in Dubuque, IA on business I grabbed a Subway sandwich and drove to C.P. "East Cabin in East Dubuque on the BNSF main line to exercise our hobby. I had my car facing the main line and was approx. 45 feet from the rail-head and all of a sudden here comes a BNSF police Ford Explorer. The BNSF fellow put his "gumball" lights on and proceeded to ask what I was there for. I immediately responded "watching trains"...he asked for ID and I gave him my BNSF Citizens for Rail Safety card which he cheerfully accepted as ID. He asked me if I hung around that point often and I told him no and told him where I typically railfanned. He told me they had some railfan who hung around there alot but was not being safe...being too close to the rail and setting his tripod on or very near the tracks. I had about a fifteen minute and very nice subsequent conversation with this man and he went on his way (I also backed up my car another five feet as he said the rule was to be at least 50 feet from the rails.
If you are the railfan who frequents East Cabin CP in East Dubuque...my suggestion is for you to stay farther back from the rail or find another place to watch trains as the BNSF police AND the East Dubuque Police are aware of you and are looking for you as some citizens have evidently complained about you...a word to the wise (as they say) is sufficient.
I'm innocent- haven't been there in awhile.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
I had the pleasure of dealing with the BNSF police a couple of Saturdays ago when riding the Metra BNSF line downtown and back from Rt 59. BNSF called in their police from accross the country to help assist with the large weekend crowd going to / coming from several large weekend events in Chicago. Between two and four officers were assigned to each train. I stand in the vestibule a lot so that I can listen to the scanner, talk to the train crew and avoid the sometimes large crowds that pack into the train cars on summer weekends. All of the BNSF officers, except for one jerk, were very profesional and friendly. I won't bad mouth the one officer who I referred to as a "jerk" out of respect for the other BNSF officers except to say that if your job is to maintain the peace don't create your own personal chaos. A lot of people who ride Metra have their habbits and when one officer enforces their own personal rule system the first reaction is usually a "what?" response.
CC
Sounds like George Orwell's 1984 to me. I agree that the railway has a right to enforce their rules on their property...so I can't fault them for that...but...what a society we've become when all around us are suspicious and we need to show ID just for being parked somewhere to watch trains.
As a general rule, my encounters with CSX special agents have been pretty good. I received an appropriate lecture when I was where I shouldn't be (at Barr) but he did answer my questions in order to avoid a future encounter. I've also met them several times at Blue Island crossing and they've always been pleasant since I've confined myself to the sidewalks for my trainwatching and photographing.
Were your locations at the 45 ft. and 50 ft. away from the rails both still on BNSF property [Q] Or, were you on a public street by then [Q] - in which case I wonder why you moved further away - or not, in which case it's understandable.
Oh, by the way - which one of you held the measuring tape at the nearest railhead so as to know that you were only 45 ft. away from it [Q]
- Paul North.
What exactly does a BNSF officer need with an ID? I highly doubt they can run a search on it...
Mechanical Department "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."
The Missabe Road: Safety First
coborn35 What exactly does a BNSF officer need with an ID? I highly doubt they can run a search on it...
You can tell a lot about a person just by how they react to the request.
And I'm sure that a RR police officer can get an NCIC check one way or another. It might take a phone call to local law enforcement, but it can happen.
I, for one, don't have a problem showing my ID to a badge. And any reputable law enforcement officer is generally either going to be wearing one, or have one to show.
Horror stories about self-righteous cops notwithstanding, I believe that if you'll play ball with them, they'll play ball with you.
Last time I dealt with an officer while fanning it was a state trooper, and he happened to know me....
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The RRs also have their own databases of people they dealt with.,.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
I've dealt with railroad cops/station security twice, both on a trip to NYC.
The station security guy saw me taking photos of the restored New Haven Union Station from inside and politely informed me that no photographs were allowed inside for security reasons. I told him that I understood and asked if the platforms were fair game for photography. He said that was fine, and wished me a good day as he walked off.
The second was the New Jersey Transit police, who got a tip-off about someone (me) taking photos of Amtrak's DOCK lift bridge from a sidewalk in Newark. They were both very polite and said right up front that what I was doing was perfectly legal, and residents only saw the camera and automatically thought "Terrorist! Bomb! Aaaaah!" and called the cops.
I think it's getting much better since the days of Metra's arrests...
as a bnsf engineer i can tell that you that if you are tresspassing on rr property this company takes those violations very serious.at least once week i see people out along the right away taking photos in spots they shouldn't be.bnsf police force is the real deel so make no mistake they do have the authority to ask for a id.problem is that foamers get them selves in places they shouldn't be,then get hurt and end up coming after the rr.that is one of the reasons beyond the security issue that the company feels important to enforce.hell im a engineer of this company and my own family members haven't even been to some of the places that i see railfans at.we take safety very very seriously here at bnsf.there are plenty of places to take photos,videos etc,[logan topped out] just not along the freakn tracks.it's just not a wise place to be.for everyones info all our power is equipped with video cameras in the cab.
A few years ago No 261 was running a fan trip that was returning to the Twin Cities on the BNSF mainline from St Cloud Minnesota. Of course this will attract many railfans and the BNSF police. Fans want to get up close to the engine and BNSF wants no trespassing on railroad property. The gray area comes when you are on public property near the tracks.Myself and other railfans and citizens were watching from a city street when BNSF special agent told us that we could not park there. Railfans told him that this street was a public street and as long as we remained on the asphalt he had no jurisdiction. He did not press the issue but told us not to go on the tracks. This was near where the new Fridley station is being constructed and this street has now been taken up by this constuction project.
Anyone who is more than a casual fan knows there is a lot of trespassing on railroad property. In another thread I wrote I saw a female jogger and three teenage boys on the BNSF bridge which crosses the Rum river in Anoka Minnesota. They would soon be joined by a BNSF coal train. I don't know if either the railroad or city police were called. I do know that would have happened if that had happened at the Minneapolis/ St Paul International Airport.
I will pose this question; are railfans easy targets of railroad police because we are so obvious. Railfans are having fun watching trains, trespassers are not.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I haven't been around East Cabin in a while (drove by it this last November) but when I was living in my hometown in N.E. Iowa I would make frequent trips over to Dubuque/East Dubuque and East Cabin as I knew a couple of the operators there back when ICG controlled the segment between Portage and East Dubuque. I can't fault BNSF police looking out for their property, though. I mean, a lot of railfanning involves using RR safety guidelines - and common sense as well.
Evidently this fellow was basing his "measurement" on the position of other BNSF equipment along the tracks which were all in roughly a straight line with the tracks....including the large signal shack there. My car bumper WAS off the public parking lot concrete by about three to four feet and I guess that is what he was anguishing over. I did not need a hassle of any sort after a long day of business travel so I simply backed up my vehicle by the offending four feet and was done with it. Also, I don't want to be at odds with BNSF over such a small and unimportant issue.
They were 'smart-guy' surveyor-type questions anyway - but I was curious as to why the 5 ft. would matter, and how he could tell. Thanks. -PDN.
Ulrichwhat a society we've become when all around us are suspicious and we need to show ID just for being parked somewhere to watch trains
However, we can place much of the blame on the "news" media for the public hysteria.
Thanks to the above-mentioned media, we are now "One nation, under surveillance".
Coborn, Are you not reading tonight?
THEY ARE A POLICE AGENCY, ,just like any police dept...Doh ! (as Homer says)
While visiting my Dad in Scottsbluff Nebraska I had to get away from the hospital where he was admitted and just do something different. Kim and I went downtown and while there we watched a couple of eastbound coal loads standing on public property we were also approached by a BNSF Special Agent. After explaining my reasons for being there showing my Union Pacific ID we were told to have a good day. Seems they have had problems descibed in the above posts of FRNS getting too close to the action Larry
I find the effort of the BNSF police to keep you at a "safe distance" interesting. I am going to Galesburg tomorrow for their Railroad Days. When I was at that event a couple of years ago, several freight trains came from the north passing right along the Amtrak platforms. A BNSF officer was on site and made sure that people moved back from the edge of the platform, but there was no effort to move people off the platforms and behind the fence, let alone 50 feet back. Of course, most of the trains were moving maybe 10-15 MPH, but I remember one heading right out on the line toward Burlington was moving at a much faster clip.
I am assuming I will still get closeup views tomorrow.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
I have yet to be stopped by any type of police while railfanning. I have my Citizens for rail safety card that even if it is not a BNSF agent I will present if asked for ID.
zardozUlrichwhat a society we've become when all around us are suspicious and we need to show ID just for being parked somewhere to watch trains However, we can place much of the blame on the "news" media for the public hysteria. Thanks to the above-mentioned media, we are now "One nation, under surveillance".
As grafittied on a building in London...
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
http://sweetwater-photography.com/
Now it becomes interesting here. Engineer labs wrote that all BNSF locos are video-equipped. I applaud that, but now comes the big question: when all the locos are fitted with cameras why didn't BNSF produce that material on the issues of the crash were the rr got convicted?
Thank you for answering that one if you know.
Kiwigerd Now it becomes interesting here. Engineer labs wrote that all BNSF locos are video-equipped. I applaud that, but now comes the big question: when all the locos are fitted with cameras why didn't BNSF produce that material on the issues of the crash were the rr got convicted? Thank you for answering that one if you know.
Thank you. 2003, yes I guess that explains it pretty well.
Ironically, I was over at East Dubuque and East Cabin this last Saturday for a bit; even went up to the area where the CN's Iowa Division mainline splits off from the joint trackage and heads for the tunnel but never encountered any BNSF police this last Saturday. I'm guessing they were likely all congregated in and around Galesburg.
TrainManTy I've dealt with railroad cops/station security twice, both on a trip to NYC. The station security guy saw me taking photos of the restored New Haven Union Station from inside and politely informed me that no photographs were allowed inside for security reasons. I told him that I understood and asked if the platforms were fair game for photography. He said that was fine, and wished me a good day as he walked off.
I wonder if the security guy in the New Haven station knew what he was talking about? I cannot imagine taking pictures inside a waiting room of a railroad station would pose a security threat compared to taking pictures on the station platform.
Los Angeles Rams Guy Ironically, I was over at East Dubuque and East Cabin this last Saturday for a bit; even went up to the area where the CN's Iowa Division mainline splits off from the joint trackage and heads for the tunnel but never encountered any BNSF police this last Saturday. I'm guessing they were likely all congregated in and around Galesburg.
Actually, not.
I spent the better part of last Saturday hanging around the Galesburg Amtrak platform and did not see a uniform all day. It is quite the event for getting up close and personal with freight and passenger trains. There were at least a half dozen car load trains, a couple of stacks and another half dozen or so coal trains, plus a unit train of ethanol tanks-empty we thought. There is a 5 foot fence along side the west platform with about 50 feet between there and the station building. While spectators were not asked to leave the platforms when trains were passing, I choose to stay on the station side of the fence.
The bus for the yard tour also went over the bridge over the yard. Normally, no parking or pedestrians are allowed on the bridge, except that the prohibitions are not enforced for Galesburg Railroad Days weekend.
cnwfan51Kim and I went downtown and while there we watched a couple of eastbound coal loads standing on public property we were also approached by a BNSF Special Agent. After explaining my reasons for being there showing my Union Pacific ID we were told to have a good day.
THIS is what frost's me. If these people were on PUBLIC PROPERTY the cops had NO RIGHT to question them! I don't care what reports the cops had in the past. These people were being presumed guilty until they proved themselves innocent. It would be different if the cops were responding to a current call about trespassers matching their description who were on the tracks in the area where these people were standing. Additionally, these people had no reason to have to explain their reasons for being where the were.
Of course, we are only getting cnwfan51's account of the episode, and I realize there are usually two sides to every story. However, if what cnwfan51 reports is accurate, then the cops definitely exceeded their authority.
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