The Buck Stops here.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can see I'm talking to a brick wall here, but:

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

But how many subscribers/readers do Newsweek and Rolling Stone have? Undoubtedly many times the number that Trains has. What Newsweek and Rolling Stone lose by having lower prices, they make up for by selling many more copies, and by being able to charge more for advertising. You can't really compare a special interest publication like Trains with a mass media publication like Newsweek.

In answer to Nora's questions:

Newsweek has an average paid circulation of 3,122,407 for the six months ending Dec 31, 2003. It ranked 16th, according to Ad Age.

Rolling Stone ranked 66th, with an average paid circulation of 1,288,324 for the same period.

The Ad Age survey listed the top 200 consumer magazines. None of the RR oriented or other specialty magazines mentioned so far are in the top 200. Circulation for #200, Sound & Vision, is 401,435. Perhaps the TRAINS folks can update us on current circulation figures. I don't have a copy handy that has the annual notice.

National Geographic, #5 with 6.6 million paid circulation, gets nearly $3 per issue for a subscription! That's $216,000,000 gross per year!

The top 10, in order: AARP, Readers Digest, TV Guide, Better Homes & Gardens, National Geographic, Good Housekeeping, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Time, Ladies's Home Journal. LHJ had an average paid circulation of 4.1 million issues, AARP had 22 million, RD, 11 million. That would mean that all of our magazines are under 400,000 circulation.

Based on what I can see, TRAINS, and all of the other RR magazines we read, appear to be comparably priced with other specialty magazines. And, based on what I've read here, everyone seems to think that the money is well spent. I personally don't use old issues for diapers (I have virtually every issue I've every gotten), but that would certainly qualify as value added...[:(]

Don't forget that RMC and Railfan & Railroad, two very similar competitors to MR and TRAINS, are comparably priced. Both are published by Carstens.

So - back to the bottom line. If you are paying more than $6.95 CDN plus applicable taxes at the newstand/hobbyshop/etc, then somebody is making some extra money on your purchase. And it's not TRAINS. Your anger is misdirected.

If you want to complain about something, try the price of your gas. Now that is outrageous.[:(!]

Off [soapbox]

Ok Larry- Why would i want to complain about Gas prices? Is this the Mobil forum? no.. and beside there not that bad, Well at least up here, The Gov't of Quebec has a maximum Gas prices can rise to- like our Drug perscriptions- It's all regulated, there is not 570% profit margin up here, I don't know what the price is down there, But up here, they can't go any higher.

daggome- It Sais Trains (upper left corner) not Exxon.

Besides if i REALLY had a probelm with Gas prices, i was born with two legs, and am a firm believer in walking to places, walk to work walk to shop- about 5 miles a day, I usually Jog 6 or 7 miles a day. One foot in front of the other! [:)]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

I can see I'm talking to a brick wall here, but:

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

But how many subscribers/readers do Newsweek and Rolling Stone have? Undoubtedly many times the number that Trains has. What Newsweek and Rolling Stone lose by having lower prices, they make up for by selling many more copies, and by being able to charge more for advertising. You can't really compare a special interest publication like Trains with a mass media publication like Newsweek.

In answer to Nora's questions:

Newsweek has an average paid circulation of 3,122,407 for the six months ending Dec 31, 2003. It ranked 16th, according to Ad Age.

Rolling Stone ranked 66th, with an average paid circulation of 1,288,324 for the same period.

The Ad Age survey listed the top 200 consumer magazines. None of the RR oriented or other specialty magazines mentioned so far are in the top 200. Circulation for #200, Sound & Vision, is 401,435. Perhaps the TRAINS folks can update us on current circulation figures. I don't have a copy handy that has the annual notice.

National Geographic, #5 with 6.6 million paid circulation, gets nearly $3 per issue for a subscription! That's $216,000,000 gross per year!

The top 10, in order: AARP, Readers Digest, TV Guide, Better Homes & Gardens, National Geographic, Good Housekeeping, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Time, Ladies's Home Journal. LHJ had an average paid circulation of 4.1 million issues, AARP had 22 million, RD, 11 million. That would mean that all of our magazines are under 400,000 circulation.

Based on what I can see, TRAINS, and all of the other RR magazines we read, appear to be comparably priced with other specialty magazines. And, based on what I've read here, everyone seems to think that the money is well spent. I personally don't use old issues for diapers (I have virtually every issue I've every gotten), but that would certainly qualify as value added...[:(]

Don't forget that RMC and Railfan & Railroad, two very similar competitors to MR and TRAINS, are comparably priced. Both are published by Carstens.

So - back to the bottom line. If you are paying more than $6.95 CDN plus applicable taxes at the newstand/hobbyshop/etc, then somebody is making some extra money on your purchase. And it's not TRAINS. Your anger is misdirected.

If you want to complain about something, try the price of your gas. Now that is outrageous.[:(!]

Off [soapbox]

Ok Larry- Why would i want to complain about Gas prices? Is this the Mobil forum? no.. and beside there not that bad, Well at least up here, The Gov't of Quebec has a maximum Gas prices can rise to- like our Drug perscriptions- It's all regulated, there is not 570% profit margin up here, I don't know what the price is down there, But up here, they can't go any higher.

daggome- It Sais Trains (upper left corner) not Exxon.

Besides if i REALLY had a probelm with Gas prices, i was born with two legs, and am a firm believer in walking to places, walk to work walk to shop- about 5 miles a day, I usually Jog 6 or 7 miles a day. One foot in front of the other! [:)]

I write several paragraphs on magazine prices, and you zero in on one sentence about the price of gas.

[#offtopic]Since you did, the price of gas here in northern NY is $1.799 per gallon, that equates to $1.90 for 4 liters. The current price for gas in Hull is listed as .775 per liter, or $3.10 for 4 liters. At current exchange rates, my price for 4 liters is 2.57 CDN. Who's getting that other 50 Cents? (Gee, this sounds just like what I wrote earlier about the price of magazines...)

Now, if you don't want to have a flame war here, I suggest you put down the fan.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

[#offtopic]Since you did, the price of gas here in northern NY is $1.799 per gallon, that equates to $1.90 for 4 liters.

Ohhhh, POOR baby, $1.80 for gassy-wassy for the go-go car, Ohhhhh..

HA HA AHAHAHAAHHHAHHAAHAHAHHHAAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!![(-D][(-D][(-D]

QUIT YER WHINNIN' YA BABY...

$1.80 ??? Hell, we'd be dancing in the streets NAKED if prices were THAT low!

Move out here to the LEFT coast where you get to pay $2.20 [:0][censored] average for a gallon of regular unleaded go-go juice!

Super Go-Go is up to $2.70 or higher in places!

So as our Govenor would say " Sock it oup lettle gurly mon!"[(-D][:-,][D)]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

[#offtopic]Since you did, the price of gas here in northern NY is $1.799 per gallon, that equates to $1.90 for 4 liters.

Ohhhh, POOR baby, $1.80 for gassy-wassy for the go-go car, Ohhhhh..

HA HA AHAHAHAAHHHAHHAAHAHAHHHAAHAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!![(-D][(-D][(-D]

QUIT YER WHINNIN' YA BABY...

$1.80 ??? Hell, we'd be dancing in the streets NAKED if prices were THAT low!

Move out here to the LEFT coast where you get to pay $2.20 [:0][censored] average for a gallon of regular unleaded go-go juice!

Super Go-Go is up to $2.70 or higher in places!

So as our Govenor would say " Sock it oup lettle gurly mon!"[(-D][:-,][D)]

The point was the price comparison, not the price. If you would prefer, I'll look up the prices for gas on the left coasts of the US and Canada instead, but I'm sure the results would be the same.

My point remains: If Kevin (or anybody else in Canada) is paying more than $6.95 plus applicable taxes for his copy of TRAINS, somebody besides Kalmbach, Inc. is pocketing the difference.

QUOTE: So as our Governor would say " Sock it oup lettle gurly mon!"[(-D][:-,][D)]

[Anonymous]

Larry Hull is reasonably far from Montreal, it's slightly more Expensive (more inland) .775! Ha i wish.. it's more like 89.9 here!

so thats what 3.58?

Besides why use a car when public transprot, and Trains are available.. Larry don't forget about the legs God gave you!

Beside this still isn't a BP forum, I was talking about How I FEEL the price for trains magazine.. is well.. Elevated. And larry you've taken up arguing with me how I feel. Okay...

you can't really argue with someone about how they feel.. You can try, Redundant i must warn you.

I feel good today, I feel happy, and i feel Joyous, want to argue with any of those? i suppose you could post NO! You don't feel this way.. and NO you don't feel like this...

Can you spell Redundant?

Don't waste your time arguing with the way I feel, wait until i make a statement like the sky is yellow with red poka-dots, see thats debateable, but the way i feel isn't

Well it is, but, you know, its kind of the way I feel...

And if you don't like the way I feel, your entitled to say so. [:)]

It's alright larry, Relax abit. No need to jump down my throat.

[edblysard]

JPC/Kevin,
Lets put a little perspective on this....
Nora gave you the answer, but I think you missed what she and tree were saying.
The retailer can not charge more than the cover price.

Other than newstands, the way it works.

Lets say I want to get into the business of selling magazines.

I do research, find out what sells, and what dosnt.

I approach a major grocery store or retail outlet, and make them a deal.
Rent me the floor space to set up a sales rack, and I pay you a flat fee, per month.

I then approach magazine publishers, like Kalambach, Time, Newsweek, ect, and purchase, at a discount price, a large volume of their magazines.
They give me a discount, because I buy a lot of their magazines...you get the idea.

Trains cover price is $4.95 US.

I buy it in volume, say a thousand covers, because I have several stands, so they sell it to me at (Mark cant fill in the blank, because, so I am guessing)
$2.95 per cover.
I stock my sales racks, and the retailer sells the magazine for $4.95.
$2.00 bucks profit for me, right?

Nope, I have to pay the rent on my stands, which is the retailers profit.

Say I pay them $500.00 monthly Xs the number of stands I have in the city.

So, that leaves me having to sell a lot of magazines, Trains, Newsweeks, Time...

The profit in magazines is in volume, you gotta sell a lot of magazines for a small precent of the cover price as profit, maybe 50 cents or less per cover.

Remember, I have to pay for the magazines in advance, then pay someone to deliver them and stock the racks, pull the old issues, (which I sell as scrap) plus I have to pay the rent for each of the stands I have.

And, I have to guess in advance, about 4 months, which magazines will sell a lot in a certain month, like Model Railroader sells more covers in December, so I order more of the Dec. issue in Sept.

The end result is a very small margin of profit for both the distributer, and the magazine publisher, in this instance, Kalmbach.

Now, making money off of say, Time, or Newsweek is a given, you will sell lots of them, because a lot of people read the news.

But Model Railroader, or Trains, or a speciality magazine, Like Reptiles, which my wife subscribes to, have a very limited and small customer base to sell to, there really isnt that many people who model railroads or are train fans, for that matter, how many people do you know who raise snakes and subscribe to Reptiles, so the cost of these magazine is higher.

Its really cheaper to run off 500000 copies of Time than it is to run 5000 copies of Trains, because the set up cost, printing, art work, and staff cost are the same for both, but Time sells thousands more covers.
The only real difference is the volume of paper used.

So, in order to have a stable base or volume of sales they can count on, regardless of what month it is or other factors, magazine publishers offer the public a discount if they buy in advance, a years subscription at a few dollars off the cover price.

Time and Newsweek are weekly publications, with hundreds of thousands of readers, Trains is a monthly, Classic Trains is a quaterly publication, both with small, special interest readers, so its cost to produce a magazine is even greater, hence it cost you more.

If, someone is selling you Trains at more than $4.95 US, or $6.95 Canadian, then they are re-selling the magazine above the cover price.

Per the subscription card in my current issue, a years subscription is $54.00 for Canadians, in US funds.
So that works out to $4.50 US per issue.

You save 45 cents US per issue.
Buy a three year subscription, it gets even cheaper per issue.

If anybody is selling you the magazine for more than the cover price, they are marking it up, not Kalmbach.

By law, Kalmbach is only allowed to charge the price listed on the cover.
Anything above and beyond is a added cost by the retailer or the distributer.

If I were you, I would ask whoever is selling you the magazine for more than $6.95 Canadian why they are charging so much, and depending on the answer, contact the fraud division of your Province or States Attorney General Office.

Once Kalmbach sells the magazine to a distributer, they are powerless to decide what that person sells it for outside the US.

Ed

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Larry Hull is reasonably far from Montreal, it's slightly more Expensive (more inland) .775! Ha i wish.. it's more like 89.9 here!

<Blah, Blah, Blah>

And if you don't like the way I feel, your entitled to say so. [:)]

It's alright larry, Relax a bit. No need to jump down my throat.

Kev -

I'd be upset if I had to pay such a mark-up on a magazine, too.

I'll get off your case as soon as you acknowledge that the elevated price you are paying for TRAINS is not the responsibility of the publisher, but rather of the people who actually sell you the magazine. That's the point I've been trying to make all along, and which Ed makes as well.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Larry Hull is reasonably far from Montreal, it's slightly more Expensive (more inland) .775! Ha i wish.. it's more like 89.9 here!

<Blah, Blah, Blah>

And if you don't like the way I feel, your entitled to say so. [:)]

It's alright larry, Relax a bit. No need to jump down my throat.

Kev -

I'd be upset if I had to pay such a mark-up on a magazine, too.

I'll get off your case as soon as you acknowledge that the elevated price you are paying for TRAINS is not the responsibility of the publisher, but rather of the people who actually sell you the magazine. That's the point I've been trying to make all along, and which Ed makes as well.

Well larry, the price starts out at 6.95 usually, and by the time taxes apply its an even eight bucks. Remmerb, no tax on magazines in new york.. unless that changed.

I usually buy magazines in the states because they are cheaper.

No, larry, the price I pay is not the price of the publisher, it is jsut a tad bit on the expensive side. No price mark up or anyhting like that.

I suppose i'll have to get used to it, or not buy it at all.

Everyone happy now?

[:)]

[garr]

Kevin,

Looks like taxes are the culprit!!! Gotta pay for socialized medicine, subsidized pharmaceuticals and price controled gas somehow.