The Buck Stops here.

[Anonymous]

In Case anyone was wondering, I did not write this (although i wish i did) , this is a coalition of other people including myself.

In other words, I firmly agree with this Statemnt, and stand behind it.

************************

(I)We are writing today to comment the price of the Trains magazine, as it stands right now on the Newsstand. For those of us, who buy Trains magazine last month Paid a deplorable rate of 7.95, (Ten) 10 dollars this month; A sudden increase of 1 dollar from last month.

For the record it is bad enough to have to shell out 9 dollars (after tax) for a magazine, but 10 dollars? That’s just a joke.

Subscribe you say? A fat load of good that does, I barely wind up saving 15 dollars after it is all said and done, and at the rate the price is increasing, 15 dollars might equal the last three pages of the magazine!

Please do note, It is not the content of the magazine that is bad; it’s the pricing that intolerable.

Here is a simple economic lesson, the inflation rate currently stands at 3-4% so 4% of 6.95 is, 19.8 Cents, or 20 cents would be an acceptable rate to increase this magazine this year. This company is moving at an inflation rate of 20%, which is not acceptable.

I don’t know how many other Canadians find this acceptable, but we don’t.

I took out my excuse book expecting the worse, and had the magazine weighed at the post office; surprise! The postage DID NOT or SHOULD not have increased as this magazine only weighs slightly more then last months?

Is it all those Special features? Then why is the US rate still the same? 5.95 –5.95/ 5.95 X 100 Will give you a price change of 0%, So why are Canadians Footing some bill?

Look, I don’t know who, what or why But I do know that I’m paying an almost unconstitutional rate for something that Is really good, but 10 dollars? It’s not ten dollars good.

So, it is time for a refresher, note the words used: Intolerable, deplorable, and terrible. If that doesn’t show a dissatisfied customer, I don’t know what will.

I want to thank Kevin for posting this under his name, I know he strongly agrees with where I stand, and I hope now that we have amalgamated more people, maybe somebody might listen.

/JPC


**************************************
So there you have it, maybe if the number keeps growing, Somehting may happen.

[Anonymous]

I got a subscription because of the high newstand rate.

If I pay for it all at once for the year it doesn't seem that bad, but heading to the stand do spend over $10 (after all the taxes) seemed high to me, and I found I wasn't buying it anymore by-the-month, thereofre missing out.

It is a quality Magazine, and I enjoy it very much, if I find the price gets to high I simply won't buy it anymore, but it hasn't come to that yet.

[tree68]

I'm sure that every copy of Trains that leaves the publisher generates the same amount of income to Kalmbach. Therefore, we need to consider the following variables:

1. The chain of supply. I believe many bulk shipments get mailed directly to the retailer in question, but that may not be completely true. Will need some help on the flow. At any rate, any of the links in that chain are places a price increase can be added.

2. The current US/CDN exchange rate. It varies. I couldn't find a reference that gave any recent trends. Any of the links in #1 might be compensating for that.

My hobby shop-purchased copy of the May 2004 issue of Trains listed a US price of $4.95 , and $6.95 in Canada on the front cover. If your issue had something different, then maybe a jab at Trains is justified. If it reads the same, you need to instead point the finger at someone in the supply chain, right down to the retailer.

[Mookie]

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin - we are having a disagreement again. I will hold your hand while we talk and ask that you look into my big green and brown eyes with blue rims and see if I can't distract you from your reasoning.

You eat at a favorite restaurant, have a favorite beverage and include your girlfriend. You both have a great time and enjoy the whole evening. This costs you? Depending on your taste - you could spend up to $100 or if you are like the driver and me, you will average about $10 to $20. Then after a day or two - it is but a memory....pleasant, but all gone!

Meanwhile your magazine arrives, provides immense pleasure and in a few days, is there again for your reading enjoyment. In fact, until you literally throw it away - it is always there, unlike the food and beverage.

(Batting my short eyelashes at you) You will have to decide, since you are now an adult, what you will and won't let into your life. If you drop your Trains magazine, they will miss you, because their customers are their lifeblood. But it is your decision - do I read or do I eat or do I save some $ by cooking and therefore can afford to read and eat.

I will give up cigarettes, beer, wild men and strip clubs, so I can afford to buy not only the Trains Magazine but also the Classic Trains.

Ok Kevin - your hand is getting too warm, so we must cease this conversation. But I thank you for your kind attention.

Mookie

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie


I will give up cigarettes, beer, wild men and strip clubs, so I can afford to buy not only the Trains Magazine but also the Classic Trains.

Mookie

Mook I was with you right up to here ..substituting "fast, easy women" for "wild men" of course.

Besides Kevin lives in Canada and they have all that up there for free..the government provides it along with inexpense pharmacuticals (sp).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Kevin, Kevin, Kevin - we are having a disagreement again. I will hold your hand while we talk and ask that you look into my big green and brown eyes with blue rims and see if I can't distract you from your reasoning.

You eat at a favorite restaurant, have a favorite beverage and include your girlfriend. You both have a great time and enjoy the whole evening. This costs you? Depending on your taste - you could spend up to $100 or if you are like the driver and me, you will average about $10 to $20. Then after a day or two - it is but a memory....pleasant, but all gone!

Meanwhile your magazine arrives, provides immense pleasure and in a few days, is there again for your reading enjoyment. In fact, until you literally throw it away - it is always there, unlike the food and beverage.

(Batting my short eyelashes at you) You will have to decide, since you are now an adult, what you will and won't let into your life. If you drop your Trains magazine, they will miss you, because their customers are their lifeblood. But it is your decision - do I read or do I eat or do I save some $ by cooking and therefore can afford to read and eat.

I will give up cigarettes, beer, wild men and strip clubs, so I can afford to buy not only the Trains Magazine but also the Classic Trains.

Ok Kevin - your hand is getting too warm, so we must cease this conversation. But I thank you for your kind attention.

Mookie

Look, you must know what i'm like- I look at what i'm wearing right now..

Spring break shirt: 4 US dollars.
Levis Straus Jeans, obtained a Tj maxx, and after a good argument: 5 USDollars
Socks, Sears speccial: 6.99 for 6 Canadian Dollars, obtained at Sears Canada
Bowling shoes: 14.95 US dollars, aftr anohter good argument.
Sean John Jean Jacket 15 bucks USD
Undewaear.. La Senza.. 37.95 thong ...no i'm just kidding..

So look at the those 4 thing I myself have purchased within the last few weeks. I'm am the cheapest person you will ever meet. I even have a policy, for every dolar I feel i'm overcharged, I will sustain an argument for that long.. At a store, 30 dollars to high? i'll sustain an argument for 30 minutes, after that it is not worth it.

Now i don't want to make any generalizations, but I am part Jewish.. Draw your own conclusions.

I can adequetly cloth myself, brand name materical for less the 10 dollars.

Go out for dinner? I'm a restaurant's nightmare come true// you have not seen cheap until you have met me.

So 10 dollars for a magazine? Outrageous and out of this world,

And i'm sorry Larry, but i'm not going to target Pampers or Huggies because the price of Trains magazine is too high> i can assume most people, they like to target the people who are reasponsible.

Trains and Trains magazine... I see a corrilation of about R=0.95
(that means REALLY good)

i work hard for my money, and i am very careful to who i shell it out with

Now to address Mook, I don't smoke, i don't Drink (Except on rare occasions) I don't got to strip clubs, And havn't yet started dating men, (No, my girlfriend Isn't that bad..) So.. these are not capital expendatuyres in my eyes.

The price of the magazine Is not an acurate reflection of people's incomes, Saleries and wages after taxes According to Revenue Canada.
They supply the numbers, and i do the math.

An average person my agee now has to work almsot 2 full hours of his day to obtain this magazine (more like 1 hr 25 mins)

Not good enough!

[CShaveRR]

Wild Man Carl hopes this weekend's still a go!

(anyone who knows me, don't laugh too loudly!)

On the subject, could sales (or other) taxes account for that much of an increase over the cover price?

Or, perhaps, this was written in regard to the April issue, which was $5.95 here and $7.95 in Canada. That's another advantage of subscribing...you pay your flat price based on the regular issue price, and no added charge for the "special collector's issues" that newsstand buyers pay an arm and a leg (or a buck) extra for.

[edblysard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie



I will give up cigarettes, beer, wild men and strip clubs, so I can afford to buy not only the Trains Magazine but also the Classic Trains.


Mookie

Mookie does cigarettes, beer, wild men and strip clubs?

Wow, did she ever have all of us fooled!

Hey, Mookie, Dan and Carl are wild men, really, really wild!


Ed[;)]

[JoeKoh]

Kev its got to be the exchange rate or the postal rates which are controlled by the govts.
stay safe
Joe

[Kozzie]

Kev, if it's any consolation, I'm paying A$8.95 down under [sigh] - and I think it might be the exchange rate. ( Although the Oz dollar has strengthened a reasonable amount against the US dollar)

But I agree with Mookie, Trains Mag and Classic Trains are the only two mags I but regularly and I think it's still value for money.

Hopefully Peter (M636C) will read this, and tell us what he is paying down south.
Peter, you might have more info on this price difference, at least from the Oz angle?

Dave
(Kozzie)

[Anonymous]

I want somebody to tell me how a 98 page magazine winds up being 7.95

Are the pages printed on African-elephant paper, is their cocaine embided in the paper, is it Gold plated?

Somebody, and go caompare it to any magazine on the newstand and you will not find anothe rmagazine that is less then 100 pages selling for over 4.99.

you will not.

Checked already, and the price is extremely unproportional to the content.

[tree68]

[?][?][?][?][?]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kev
And i'm sorry Larry, but i'm not going to target Pampers or Huggies because the price of Trains magazine is too high> i can assume most people, they like to target the people who are responsible.

Trains and Trains magazine... I see a correlation of about R=0.95
(that means REALLY good)

OK, I'm confused now. I just looked through my post and don't see anything about diapers.

Please take a look at the front cover of your latest TRAINS. In the lower right corner, just above the bar code, mine says "$4.95 $6.95 Canada." At the current US/CDN exchange rate, that $4.95US translates to $6.67CDN. Given the cost of mailing/shipping across the border, I'd say that $6.95CDN is reasonable.

But wait! This whole thread is about paying much more than that for Trains! Assuming that your copy lists the same prices as mine, someone is adding a couple of bucks to the price. Since it's not likely that all of that is sales tax, etc, someone is adding some extra mark-up!

Mark-up. That's figured into the price of the magazine. Mark H & Co sell the magazine to the wholesalers and retailers for $X. The magazine sells on the newstand for $4.95 (US). $4.95 minus X = dealer's markup. Any time I've bought this, or any other magazine, the clerk looks at the price printed (not stuck on with a new price tag) on the front and that's what I pay (taxes notwithstanding). And that includes some places where big markups are the rule, like airports.

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh
Kev its got to be the exchange rate or the postal rates which are controlled by the govts.
stay safe
Joe

OK, we've taken the exchange rate into consideration. Postal rates might account for some small part of it, but if you're paying $9.00 or $10.00 for an issue, you might want to shop around a bit, and ask the retailers why the big mark-up. Methinks you're getting ripped off, but it's not by TRAINS.

As for the price of magazines, a visit to my magazine recycle box shows that my issue of FIREHOUSE (whoops - that one gets kept) lists a newstand price of $5.00. I would say that it is comparable to TRAINS in editorial content and quality. A copy of Cosmo my daughter left here has a $3.50 cover price, but the first 10 pages, and many full pages thereafter, are advertising. Rolling Stone has a cover price of $4.95, same as TRAINS, but the first 30 (Yes, THIRTY) pages are solid advertising, not to mention the rest of the advertising throughout the magazine. Popular Mechanics has a $3.50 cover price. It looks to compare to TRAINS in terms of volume of editorial content, but the circulation is much larger - economy of scale comes into play.

Others: The Railroad Press goes for $5.95, $8.95 foreign. Railfan and Railroad, all 60+ pages of it, lists a cover price of $4.50, $6.25 in Canada. Railroad Model Craftsman is also $4.50/$6.25. Fire Rescue Magazine asks $4.00/$5.00 for 200 pages of advertising laden content. JEMS, probably the premier magazine of emergency medical services, asks $4.00/$5.00, and the first six pages of the issue I picked up were full-page ads.

If you compare the price of TRAINS to other, similar specialty magazines, I think you'll find them very similar.

And, as an aside, many retailers in my area mark up the price of the Syracuse newspaper from 35 cents to 50 or 60 cents. The price is printed right there on page one of the paper, and the merchants stick a new label right over it. No borders involved, either.

[UPTRAIN]

I agree with macguy and I subscribe to MR and TRAINS magazines.

[Anonymous]

Of all the money I put in to fix'n my stupid s-vhs camcorder, Id have a subscribtion to trains mag. for the next 60 to 80 years......that's if I live that long.

[Mookie]

I subscribe to Consumer Reports and Reader's Digest - enjoy both! But RD has gone from a big book down to practically a pamphlet and CR is like a newspaper. The price on each isn't all that small, but for the sheer love of reading them, I will pay it.

Had to give up cigars to make up the difference, but......

Mook

[Mookie]

Kevin - (holding your hand again, looking into your I'll bet green eyes) - you are cheap, argumentative and opinionated. Well, what more could a girl ask for? I will add you to my list of people I have to call to read them the magazine. [sigh]

[;)] Mook

[wallyworld]

Ill tell you what I told my wife-the cost is well worth it because we can use the old issues in the place of Pampers.

[jeaton]

My cable bill runs about $80 a month, with no premium channels, but including high speed cable modem. Could drop that bill to $60.00 if I wanted. On that basis, I think my cost for trains is OK. It is about priorities, but I am sorry for anyone who has forego an item that is on the top of their entertainment list.

[M636C]

Dave has asked me to say what I pay for "Trains"

Yes, it is $ (Aust) 8.95 here too!

In Australia, there is an effective monopoly in magazine distribution, and there is no price competition. However, "Trains" is available in most small communities throughout Australia.

The exchange rate is $(US)0.74 to one Australian dollar

My employer imposes a 10% tax on magazines ( and nearly everything else)

On the cover price of March, $4.95, conversion and tax accounts for $ (Aust) 7.35

So someone is picking up $(Aust) 1.60 over the equivalent US Mark Up.

We get our magazines about two months later than the US issue date.

Air Mail copies are available in some places at $(Aust)15-00 but I was told they had sold out in the big railfan shop in Sydney when I was last there.

Don't even think what "Classic Trains" costs here ($A19.95 for "Steam Glory")

Peter

[Anonymous]

But why.. I subscribe to Alot of Magazines, A ton to be percise-

Newsweek turns out to be 1.19 an issue, Rolling stone although they may distribute their advertisments worse then Trains, i paid what... 99 cents each? If you look at Trains magazine, the ads are small, but still- about 10% of the magazine is ads, they are jsut better distributed throught the magazine.

Don't fall for that trick, Larry-

I can sound off an entire list of magazines, I don't have 60 CDn dollars (Not factoring in, GST QST or money order costs) to subscribe a year to that magazine, and americans get what 40% off the cover price? and Canadians get what.. 10-12 dollars of a full year subscription? Oh thats woirth it.. yeah thats really worth it, For un uneconomically sound mind, thats really worth it.

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

Newsweek turns out to be 1.19 an issue, Rolling stone although they may distribute their advertisments worse then Trains, i paid what... 99 cents each? If you look at Trains magazine, the ads are small, but still- about 10% of the magazine is ads, they are jsut better distributed throught the magazine.

But how many subscribers/readers do Newsweek and Rolling Stone have? Undoubtedly many times the number that Trains has. What Newsweek and Rolling Stone lose by having lower prices, they make up for by selling many more copies, and by being able to charge more for advertising. You can't really compare a special interest publication like Trains with a mass media publication like Newsweek.

[zardoz]

...and yet, you have no problem using this FREE forum, provided at no charge for us. Perhaps Trains should charge a user fee for this, to help offset the losses accrued due to bon marché customers dropping out on account of a pennies-per-day price increase.


Arrêtez votre pleurnicherie. Si vous n'aimez pas le prix, n'achetez pas le magazine !

[Modelcar]

....Our magazine cover lists price as 4.95 here vers. Canadian at 6.95..., so who is adding all the additional costs to the Canadians...? Surely the subscription price is lower than the listed per issue at newstands...of 6.95....

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Ill tell you what I told my wife-the cost is well worth it because we can use the old issues in the place of Pampers.

EEEEwwwwww.......

[tree68]

I can see I'm talking to a brick wall here, but:

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

But how many subscribers/readers do Newsweek and Rolling Stone have? Undoubtedly many times the number that Trains has. What Newsweek and Rolling Stone lose by having lower prices, they make up for by selling many more copies, and by being able to charge more for advertising. You can't really compare a special interest publication like Trains with a mass media publication like Newsweek.

In answer to Nora's questions:

Newsweek has an average paid circulation of 3,122,407 for the six months ending Dec 31, 2003. It ranked 16th, according to Ad Age.

Rolling Stone ranked 66th, with an average paid circulation of 1,288,324 for the same period.

The Ad Age survey listed the top 200 consumer magazines. None of the RR oriented or other specialty magazines mentioned so far are in the top 200. Circulation for #200, Sound & Vision, is 401,435. Perhaps the TRAINS folks can update us on current circulation figures. I don't have a copy handy that has the annual notice.

National Geographic, #5 with 6.6 million paid circulation, gets nearly $3 per issue for a subscription! That's $216,000,000 gross per year!

The top 10, in order: AARP, Readers Digest, TV Guide, Better Homes & Gardens, National Geographic, Good Housekeeping, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Time, Ladies's Home Journal. LHJ had an average paid circulation of 4.1 million issues, AARP had 22 million, RD, 11 million. That would mean that all of our magazines are under 400,000 circulation.

Based on what I can see, TRAINS, and all of the other RR magazines we read, appear to be comparably priced with other specialty magazines. And, based on what I've read here, everyone seems to think that the money is well spent. I personally don't use old issues for diapers (I have virtually every issue I've every gotten), but that would certainly qualify as value added...[:(]

Don't forget that RMC and Railfan & Railroad, two very similar competitors to MR and TRAINS, are comparably priced. Both are published by Carstens.

So - back to the bottom line. If you are paying more than $6.95 CDN plus applicable taxes at the newstand/hobbyshop/etc, then somebody is making some extra money on your purchase. And it's not TRAINS. Your anger is misdirected.

If you want to complain about something, try the price of your gas. Now that is outrageous.[:(!]

Off [soapbox]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Ill tell you what I told my wife-the cost is well worth it because we can use the old issues in the place of Pampers.

EEEEwwwwww.......

Gives new meaning to bottom dump hoppers ..........

and hazmat...do not hump..........

or I guess pressurized discharge.......

[vsmith]

Kev

So your team survived into round two, so now you can use that five bucks to pick up the new issue, that next issue might be in jeopardy!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

...and yet, you have no problem using this FREE forum, provided at no charge for us. Perhaps Trains should charge a user fee for this, to help offset the losses accrued due to bon marché customers dropping out on account of a pennies-per-day price increase.


Arrêtez votre pleurnicherie. Si vous n'aimez pas le prix, n'achetez pas le magazine !

I got insulted in my own language!
Not bad..... Not bad!!



Sentance Structure 0/5
Verb use 2.5/5
Verb tense 1/5

Look, if your going to disrespect me in french, please have a Background in the language, and not use a cheap internet translator for such purposes, because if you honestly think those things are spewing out REAL-Time french, your mistaken

Alas, you Fail.

Oh, and your fired!

Look, i asked for a price justification, not a flame war, so back off.
I.e Don't post Flame bait.

DAmn right I like this forum, It's free- I don't get why you have a problem with me using this forum, if you do have a problem, you ought to say it right out.. don't hide it..

Excellent. I asume then your probelm is solved, and if you still have a problem, e-mail me, although i'm unsure why your making this problem your own- but anyways..

[Mookie]

Psst - Kevin - what did he say?

[Anonymous]

I think what he attempted to say was somehting along these lines:

Stop your Complaining, If you don't like the price, don't buy the magazine

Litteral Translation:

Stop <Non existant verb>, If WE don't like the prices, don't buy the magazine.

Got to keep thinking in my head *don't turn this into a flame war*

But hey Zardoz, if you really want to start that type of thing going, E-mail me, we can have a lovely flame war there!