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Flooding in Upper Midwest

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Posted by Ishmael on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:14 PM

The 5 O'clock news announced predictions for the crests at Winfield on the Mississippi, Clarksville and Alton. Lock and Dams 25, 26 and 27 respectively.These are supposed to be reached a week from Sunday. Sort of a slow-moving disaster, just like 1993.

 

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Posted by Soo 6604 on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:37 PM

Theres a dam in Mukwonago, WI that the local news this morning was saying thats going to fail. Right in the rivers path is the CN mainline. Theyve said when the dam goes, the railroad bridge will go with it also.

The line is the CN Chicago-Superior main located about 20-25 miles SW of Milwaukee on Interstate 43.

I suppose if that bridge is washed out, CN can reroute between Chicago and Duplainville on the CP. Maybe even the UP between Chicago and Milwaukee.

Forecast for that area is 1-2 inches Tomorrow into tomorrow night. For North-Central Wisconsin, supposed to get 4-6 inches with more than 6 inches in areas.

Paul

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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:47 PM
First, Third, and 16th Ave. bridges are now closed; Second, Eighth, and lower part of 5-in-1 are expected to be closed before the end of the day, leaving I-380 as the only way to get across the river.  Evacuation has been expanded to all areas within the 500-year flood plan.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:29 PM
I just saw some photos of the former MILW bridge in Cedar Rapids (and naturally I don't have a way to post them).  They were taken just this afternoon (Wed.).  That CRANDIC rock train is still there.  The water looks to be less than 3 ft. under the rails.  Water is still rising.
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Posted by zardoz on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:12 PM
 blhanel wrote:

Anyone know how to measure cubits?

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

 

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:57 PM

First, an update:  The CPRS mainline between Milwaukee and Portage remains O.O.S.

Now I've been reading accounts that the Mississippi River may well indeed get as much as 10-12 feet over flood stage.  Not just sure as to when and where but I would imagine that the CP/ICE and BNSF are going to take some more hits. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:58 AM
 blhanel wrote:

That one's news to me, WIAR, but CRANDIC had rock hoppers parked on it.  Nothing on the local websites yet.  NOAA just upped the crest prediction to 24.5 feet on Friday morning.

Anyone know how to measure cubits?

I updated my post - my friend had the Waterloo 18th St. bridge mixed-up with local CR news.  The rest in my post was confirmed - the CNW bridge downtown by QO and the yard there are inundated.

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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:41 AM
 Los Angeles Rams Guy wrote:

I wonder if those loaded ballast hoppers on the Crandic bridge would be enough to keep something like that from happening.

Brian, is the new Overland Route mainline bridge over the Cedar going to make it thru this?  

Good question- if I can get out and about tonight, that's one spot I want to get a picture of.  The problem is going to be how to get close enough to get a picture.

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:36 AM

I wonder if those loaded ballast hoppers on the Crandic bridge would be enough to keep something like that from happening.

Brian, is the new Overland Route mainline bridge over the Cedar going to make it thru this?  

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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:16 AM

That one's news to me, WIAR, but CRANDIC had rock hoppers parked on it.  Nothing on the local websites yet.  NOAA just upped the crest prediction to 24.5 feet on Friday morning.

Anyone know how to measure cubits?

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:05 AM

I just got off the horn with a friend of mine who works in downtown Cedar Rapids (9:58 AM 6/11/08).  She said the railroad bridge at 8th Ave. (old MILW bridge) has been destroyed, the former CNW bridge downtown at Quaker Oats (old CNW passenger line) is nearly submerged, and that the Quaker Oats yard is completely under water (the old CNW & ROCK yard).  They've issued mandatory evacuations for the TimeCheck area. 

I clarified this with my friend - she had the Waterloo bridge story (18th St. bridge) confused with the local Cedar Rapids situation.  The rest is confirmed.

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Posted by TimChgo9 on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:39 AM

The flooding is about the worst I have seen it, since 1993.  Here in Chicago, there are few problems, but the Northern suburbs could have a few things to be concerned about over the coming days. 

Anyway, some areas of the country, according to the NWS, and the weather forum I belong to, many areas of the Upper Midwest, Indiana, and the Ohio Valley have seen up to 300% of the average rainfall for the June 1-10 time period.  It's pretty unreal.  The next round of rain/thunderstorms is predicted to dump anywhere from 1" to 2.5" of rain across various areas of the Midwest, Ohio Valley, and Upper Midwest.  

Try this link, it shows the 24 hour precip for the upper midwest. http://models.easternuswx.com/gfsloop.php

The darker colors like blues and reds indicate the heavy rainfall.  You can see the swath of heavy rain, 3.3" in some spots as indicated by this run of the NAM weather forecast model, across Minnesota, Iowa, as well as Missouri and Nebraska.  The atmosphere has been rather "wet" with the last few systems, and that is translating into alot of rain.  

The long range forecast shows a fairly active pattern out for the next 2 weeks, according to the GFS, and NAM forecast models (the GFS is run 4 times a day, out to 384 hours, or 16 days) So, it doesn't look like there is much in the way of relief from the heavy rain. Obviously alot can change, but the model has been looking consistent for the past few runs, since yesterday.

I copied the following from the National Weather Service office in Iowa City.  It's part of the Area Forecast Discussion.... it's not pretty. 

.LONG TERM...THURSDAY THROUGH NEXT TUESDAY...
DEEP
VORTEX THAT WILL BE OVER THE NORTHERN PLAINS THURSDAY WILL SEND
A COLD
FRONT ACROSS THE REGION ON THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND THURSDAY
NIGHT. THIS SYSTEM WILL BRING A SIGNIFICANT SEVERE WEATHER AND
FLASH
FLOOD EVENT TO THE REGION. FORECAST SOUNDINGS INDICATE DEEP LAYER SHEAR
OF ABOUT 50 KNOTS ALONG WITH A STRONG UNIDIRECTIONAL WIND FIELD
SUPPORTIVE OF SIGNIFICANT DAMAGING WINDS. CAPES WILL BE GREATER THAN
3000
J/KG. SUPERCELLS PRODUCING A TORNADO OR TWO ARE POSSIBLE AT THE
EARLY STAGES OF THE EVENT AS THE
LCL LOWERS TO 2600 FEET BEFORE IT
ALL EVOLVES INTO AN INTENSE FAST MOVING
SQUALL LINE. CURRENTLY
SURFACE DEWPOINTS IN THE LOWER 70S AS FAR NORTH AS KS WITH 850
MB
DEWPOINT OF 16C AT DDC 00Z JUNE 11. FORECAST SOUNDINGS INDICATE
PRECIPITABLE WATER OF MORE THAN 2 INCHES WITH THIS EVENT. HEAVY RAIN
AND
FLASH FLOODING LIKELY WITH WIDESPREAD 1 TO 3 INCHES OF RAIN WITH
LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS. WITH LOW
FLASH FLOOD GUIDANCE NUMBERS AND
GROUND COMPLETELY SATURATED SERIOUS
FLASH FLOODING IS A THREAT. HELD
OFF ON ISSUING A
FLASH FLOOD WATCH AS THIS WOULD BE IN THE 3RD/4TH
PERIOD OF THE FORECAST. STILL TIME TO EVALUATE LATER MODEL RUNS AND
ISSUE A
WATCH LATER TODAY.

(Hint: Click on the blue highlighted words for definitions of the meteoroligical terms.  CAPEs stands for Convective Available Potential Energy, expressed in Joules per Kilogram.... it basically reflects the intensity of any instability in the atmosphere, and the higher the number, the more unstable, but there is no "limit" or "magic number" that indicates when the instability will cause severe weather.  The higher the number, the more unstable, and therefore more likely severe storms will form. 

Just thought I would pass on some weather info....

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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:32 AM

Some pictures from yesterday in the Cedar Rapids Gazette...

http://gazetteonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/tngallery?Site=GO&Date=20080610&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=386726802&Ref=PH&Params=Start=1

EDIT: Here's a good account and a great picture of the Waterloo bridge washout in the Waterloo Courier...

http://www.waterloocourier.com/articles/2008/06/11/news/top_story/doc484efdb5915b2225183969.txt

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:37 AM
I'm wondering if the CN is able to run anything west of Waterloo with Cedar Falls seemingly inundated with H2O.  Couldn't believe that about the IANR's bridge at Waterloo biting the dust....er, water.
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Posted by blhanel on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:22 AM

Alex,

Things are not going well here- they've ordered a mandatory evacuation from both sides of the river downtown, including the southeast side around the old Wilson's meatpacking plant and the southwest side around and including Czech Village.  Sounds like pumps are failing and water is starting to come up through the storm drains.  The Iowa Northern has been shut down due to the loss of their bridge across the Cedar in Waterloo, which got taken out yesterday afternoon by the flood.  I suspect that CN, UP, and CRANDIC aren't running either due to flooded yards around Quaker.

Haven't heard anything new from Iowa City, but then their problems really don't get serious until early next week.  Water is starting to go over the spillway at Coralville, but thus far is just a comparative trickle.

I'm going to try to get downtown tonight to get some pictures, depending on if I'm allowed to do so by local authorities (oh, and weather permitting as well- more gully washers coming).

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:01 AM

Brian,

WHAT is going on back in C.R. and Iowa City????  How bad is this going to get?

Anyone out there who might be able to provide a synopsis of what lines/routes are closed or what detours are taking place? 

Needless to say, from what I'm gathering from different websites this sounds pretty bad.

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Posted by EJE818 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:38 PM
Lake Delton near the Dells is gone, Mid-Continent Railway Museum is suffering a very bad flood, and is reporting major damage throughout the museum, CP is shut down and it sounds like BNSF is close to being shut down as well. Bridges are collapsing into rivers and rail lines that aren't shut down already throughout flooded portions of the midwest are being threatened with flooding. It's getting really bad out there. Amtrak could very well be detouring on BNSF via Rochelle until Friday.
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Posted by blhanel on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:21 PM

Here's NOAA's prediction for Iowa City- looks like it'll be a loooooonnng time before CRANDIC can use its own tracks through town...

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=dvn&gage=iowi4&view=1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1

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Posted by Ishmael on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:24 PM

From what I'm hearing from you folks up north, this may very well be another 1993.

Our flood wall along the river was found to have many faults back then, and improvements were supposed to take place. But they haven't. Our city has been too busy building baseball stadiums and gambling palaces. I will keep y'all posted.

I remember the 1947 flood, before there was a flood wall. My Grandma and I took the streetcar downtown and walked out on the Eads Bridge. A lot of downtown buildings were submerged along the south side. Much of that area now is new businesses and entertainment areas. UP's Lesperance Yard is behind the floodwall. Should be interesting.

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Posted by blhanel on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:35 PM
I just returned from running an errand downtown- I took the opportunity to drive over and check out the river.  It certainly is getting up there- First St. NW is now closed north of the I-380 5-in-1 bridge as it has water over it.  Cedar Lake is showing signs of rising along with the river; some of the yard tracks in the RR yard closest to St. Lukes are now under water.  The NOAA shows the level at 17.99 feet, and they've changed the forecast crest to 22.0 feet mid-Friday morning.  And of course we're going to get heavy rain and thunderstorms Wednesday into Thursday...Sad [:(]
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:18 PM
I just heard from a close friend of mine in Des Moines.  She said the Des Moines River will top the emergency spillway tonight, and they're closing all the bridges over the river.  Holy hotcakes.
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Posted by wgnrr on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:49 PM

Go look at Mid Continent Railway Museum's webcam. It is totally flooded...one of the worst they have ever had.

Many towns in Wisconsin are closed due to flooding and landslides blocking roads...Lake Delton has topped it's banks, and made a new river to the Wisconsin River via a subdivision.

Glad that I am in West Virginia right now...lol

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:48 PM
 WIAR wrote:
 Los Angeles Rams Guy wrote:

Just read in the Minneapolis Star Tribune about flooding in SE Minnesota again; this time Houston County to be exact and also in NE Iowa in Allamakee County with the Upper Iowa River as well which leads me to believe that parts of the ICE mainline have been hit.  The Root River runs into the Mississippi just south of La Crescent and the Upper Iowa does the same just south of New Albin.  Anyone know for sure?

Wow, hard to believe that the former CNW portion of the "Overland Route" got hit in two places in western Iowa not to mention the IAIS near Anita as well.  Jeff/Brian, any chance at all that the UP (or others) might detour over all or parts of the CN's Iowa Division if this stuff keeps up? 

I remember '93 well as I was living in Coralville and my graduation from the U of Iowa that summer was flooded out.  Oh well, I still did manage to get my piece of paper in the mail.  Smile [:)]    

 

What about the old CB&Q through southern Iowa?  Could they detour over that?

Certainly that would be an option as well if available.  Ironically enough, the BNSF's former CBQ mainline across both Illinois and Iowa has seemingly always had flooding problems. 

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:38 AM
 Los Angeles Rams Guy wrote:

Just read in the Minneapolis Star Tribune about flooding in SE Minnesota again; this time Houston County to be exact and also in NE Iowa in Allamakee County with the Upper Iowa River as well which leads me to believe that parts of the ICE mainline have been hit.  The Root River runs into the Mississippi just south of La Crescent and the Upper Iowa does the same just south of New Albin.  Anyone know for sure?

Wow, hard to believe that the former CNW portion of the "Overland Route" got hit in two places in western Iowa not to mention the IAIS near Anita as well.  Jeff/Brian, any chance at all that the UP (or others) might detour over all or parts of the CN's Iowa Division if this stuff keeps up? 

I remember '93 well as I was living in Coralville and my graduation from the U of Iowa that summer was flooded out.  Oh well, I still did manage to get my piece of paper in the mail.  Smile [:)]    

 

What about the old CB&Q through southern Iowa?  Could they detour over that?

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:35 AM
 blhanel wrote:
 Victrola1 wrote:

U. S. Army Corps site shows the Cedar River cresting at 21.5' on Thursday. Will that affect the Union Pacific?

If it gets that high (which would be an all-time record, BTW), it will affect EVERYTHING in downtown Cedar Rapids.

 Victrola1 wrote:

I was thinking the cut off on the south side of Cedar Rapids goes under at this level. If it does, can the U. P. still get through via the old passenger route through downtown?

I seriously doubt it.  Judging from my perception, the transcon has no grade whatsoever from the Cedar River bridge all the way over to the Bertram crossovers- am I correct, Jeff?  If the bridge goes under, that whole stretch will be under.  In that case, detouring over the passenger route won't help.

If it gets that high, the CNW bridge across the Cedar downtown by Quaker Oats may be affected, if not the approach on the south side.  I can't recall the street there on the south bank near the CNW bridge ("A" Street?) but I know it flooded in 1993.  I remember those times well - I pitched-in at the public works building filling sandbags (me and my trench shovel).

According to KCRG, Otis Rd. between 44th St. & Bertram Rd. SE is now closed.

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Posted by MP173 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:12 AM

Saturday I drove from NW Indiana to Indy and hit the storm at Lafayette.  For 45 minutes it was as intense of rain as I recall.  Water everywhere. The papers the next day indicated southern Indiana was even worse, with up to 11 inches in a couple of areas.

CN has a UP empty coal train (PRB coal) parked between Valparaiso and Haskells this morning.  Putting 2 and 2 together it is obvious there are going to be considerable number of trains parked east of the Mississippi for awhile.  Hmmm, this could take awhile to sort out.  Hopefully the utilities have plenty of coal on hand. 

ed

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:58 AM

Just got wind a bit ago that the CPRS mainline between Milwaukee and Portage is closed; effectively knocking us out between Milwaukee and La Crosse for all intents and purposes.  For how long I haven't a clue.  The rerouting thing is going to be a tricky proposition to say the least since so many lines have been affected.

Anyone have any info on the ICE mainline from River Jct. (La Crescent) south toward Samoa/Sabula Jct.?  This would be an obvious 1st choice for CPRS if available.  

  

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Posted by Ted Marshall on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:48 AM

You can bet that there will be some major delays and reroutes as a result of the horrible flooding.

 

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:05 AM

....Yes, we're in central Indiana, and from here down....at many locations....there is terrible flooding.  In fact, just 10 min. ago I was looking at the forecast and the map was green {flooding}, from here all the way south here in Indiana.

Quentin

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Posted by blhanel on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:00 AM

NOAA's prediction for Cedar Rapids has now been reduced to 21.2 feet.  Anyone know where that is in relation to the UP transcon's bridge deck?  Here's a shot of the bridge when the water is at a normal level.

EDIT:  Based on the effects listed on NOAA's site, the river level in this shot must've been below 8 feet.Shock [:O]

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