Graffiti is telling us something...

[Deltic Dave]

 Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.

[chad thomas]

When I was a prosecutor, the public defender never did seem to understand why I was more than fine giving public intoxication or conventional marijuana offenders time-served pleas while simmultaneously insisting that graffiti artists do at least a month . . . .  for everytime they used the word "victimless offense" to try to get a lower sentence, I would add a day to their sentence.

Gabe

Gabe

[zardoz]

 Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.

[Anonymous]

I have never seen an aluminum hopper car or gondola with graffiti on it except for a very small one once, but I see all kinds of autoracks with aluminum sides with graffiti all over them.  Why is it never on the hoppers (or is it and I have just never seen it)?

[tree68]

I'm guessing that the hoppers are in virtually constant motion, whereas the racks have a tendency to sit.

[sumptervalley250]

Last year sitting in the depot park in Laramie, WY I saw an entire string of reefers that was hit.  From the first to last car there was a mural running along the bottoms of the cars.  There must have been a coordinated team with a lot of time to do that.  Railcars provide a large canvas and everywhere they go is the gallery that they get displayed at. 

That being said, I don't like it, but it is there.  Graffiti has been around for centuries in one form or another.  I watched a show on the History channel that reported there were messages on the walls of the Ft. Knox vaults.  "Goldfinger was here" and things like that. 

If you see something happening report it, at least you will know you tried to help.

[Railway Man]

I have never seen an aluminum hopper car or gondola with graffiti on it except for a very small one once, but I see all kinds of autoracks with aluminum sides with graffiti all over them.  Why is it never on the hoppers (or is it and I have just never seen it)?

Coal cars in captive unit train service move with few stops between the mine and the power plant, which are usually fenced and guarded, and always trespasser-adverse, and on the rare occasion when idle are usually parked at the power plant.  Autoracks spend much of their life in storage tracks in sketchy neighborhoods or industrial areas because auto traffic is highly cyclical.  Coal cars that are in loose-car service, which is where many of the steel cars are now, cycle without regularity between industrial customers and small power plants, and the mines, and thus spend time on spurs and in yards where they are accessible to graffiti, and many of them are now defaced.

RWM

[WP 3020]

Some things that make some types of cars more desirable for graffiti are smooth sides and the environment they frequent. Coal hoppers in unit trains don't get tagged much because they do stay in constant motion. When they do layover it is usually in a more secure or very sparsely populated way out of the way place. Auto racks travel some rather graffiti rich environments. A few years ago I saw quite a few parked on some branch lines for a very long time. The conditions were perfect for graffiti. Refer cars make excellent targets as well, although some do have ribbed sides, most are involved in a seasonal market.

[mohawkmalone]

I have a love-hate relationship with the graffiti. I usually watch trains on the CSX main in the Mohawk Valley with my camera at the ready for a good display of color and art. Gosh, where are the good old days....the '70s of yellows, jade greens, bright reds where you could almost pick out the RR name by the color? Now about the only color is in the graffiti!

It is amazing how a big covered wagon can be painted over the whole 80' and right to the top too! These "artists" must bring ladders for these murals!

I have a couple of ideas on how to solve the problem:

When they paint the cars for the first time, invite known graffiti artists in to do a nice job with their talent. This could save some money on paint and these "signed" cars would put some color on the tracks right off the getgo!

Or how about using a plastic type paint that spray paint will not adhere to? Dupont,etc., may have something already available!

Now this is my favorite! On the big 80' or longer car haulers the railroads should use these for traveling billboards! These would no longer be the boring long silver line of cars but a series of billboards advertising the latest autos, burgers, national products or most anything. The owners would collect a fee and these could be easily changed by a billboard company when the term is up. Note that you already see these colorful ads on many trucks across the country. Now if they could make these with a unsprayable plastic type coating...wow...a win-win for all of us!

Looking forward to more "organized color" on future trains!

[tree68]

"Wraps" are popular on city transit busses - they cover the whole thing (including the windows, but I think you can still see out). 

The price would certainly have to be worth the product - there would have to be some assurance of exposure.

Having the taggers paint railcars might be interesting - set certain parameters and allow them to sign their work.  The schemes need to be related to the railroad, not just whatever they want to do.  Even with that, there are some interesting possibilities.

There are graffiti resistant paints - but I'm sure they come at a price.  Depends on how the cost/benefit ratio breaks. 

[rrnut282]

 Saw the WSOR Model Railroader 70th Anniversary car last week, covered in graffitti.

I was going to say bring back "billboard reefers", to get away from long strings of boxcar red (rust) colored cars which, in the eyes of the taggers, and others, needs a splash of color.  But if they tag a special paint job like that, no advertiser is going to take a chance that their message will be destroyed the first trip out of the paint booth.  Too bad, the railroads could have used it as another source of revenue.

[Anonymous]

I have never seen an aluminum hopper car or gondola with graffiti on it except for a very small one once, but I see all kinds of autoracks with aluminum sides with graffiti all over them.  Why is it never on the hoppers (or is it and I have just never seen it)?

Coal cars in captive unit train service move with few stops between the mine and the power plant, which are usually fenced and guarded, and always trespasser-adverse, and on the rare occasion when idle are usually parked at the power plant.  Autoracks spend much of their life in storage tracks in sketchy neighborhoods or industrial areas because auto traffic is highly cyclical.  Coal cars that are in loose-car service, which is where many of the steel cars are now, cycle without regularity between industrial customers and small power plants, and the mines, and thus spend time on spurs and in yards where they are accessible to graffiti, and many of them are now defaced.

RWM

Thanks.

[joegreen]

Some things that make some types of cars more desirable for graffiti are smooth sides and the environment they frequent. Coal hoppers in unit trains don't get tagged much because they do stay in constant motion. When they do layover it is usually in a more secure or very sparsely populated way out of the way place. Auto racks travel some rather graffiti rich environments. A few years ago I saw quite a few parked on some branch lines for a very long time. The conditions were perfect for graffiti. Refer cars make excellent targets as well, although some do have ribbed sides, most are involved in a seasonal market.

 

Yes ribbed sides arent as easy to paint but you take what you get when no prefered cars are around aka Reefers. They always have graffiti on them and that is because they are a graffiti favorite. Take a look at the Railbox boxcars(which are also favorites)..... Since they are in pool service that car is ideal to paint because it will travel farther(BNSF,UP,CSX,NS)....Railbox cars appear on almost every railroad. Autoracks are also a favorite because they are giant, and they arent as ribbed as some hoppers and boxcars. Tank cars a painted less because of the angle you would be painting at....the ladders at the center also create some problems with painting. If you notice most sliding doors on boxcars arent painted because of how ribbed and jagged they normally are. Most boxcars are painted on the left or right side because of the doors. Unless they do an end to end or whole car paint job then the door would have to be painted.

Next time your out watchin trains take note of these things. Youll really see what im talkin about.

[WP 3020]

Or how about using a plastic type paint that spray paint will not adhere to? Dupont,etc., may have something already available!

I believe it is called buff.

[joegreen]

I saw awhile back that rusto came out with an anti graffiti paint that you spray on ur walls and it blocks anything painted over it. Like some sort of clear coating. I know of some artists that want to use it after they did their piece so it couldnt be buffed afterwards. Not sure if this paint is real or if someone is just blowin hot steam.

[Anonymous]

Spray a silicone based product on the paint, I haven't seen a paint yet that will adhere to this stuff. Think Armorall. When I worked in a paint shop this stuff was a pain when it got on a surface that was to be painted.

[tnchpsk8]

  To play Devil's Advocate here for a minute, why not look at this problem from a different angle. As a railroad, why not paint the car in primer, hunt down the graffiti artist and turn him loose on the car, free paint job! Establish parameters for him to work in, such as, car ID markings necessary for the railroad to conduct their business are off-limits and the artwork must in some part of it contain the artists rendtion of the owner's name/logo.

[Modelcar]

....I believe the RR's would like to have freight cars painted as they choose to do it....Common utility type colors.  I'm sure they don't need another "system" to deal with in refreshing cars.  Or painting new ones.

[Ted Marshall]

To tell the truth I really don't think that most railroads even care about graffiti as much as they do the trespassing element involved. The liability factor rings loudest to me with regard to graffiti. If a tagger (trespasser) fell and injured himself or worse, got struck and killed by a errant freight car or motor who would be liable?

[crewshuttle]

The rail company should not be liable, the tagger is trespassing on railroad property where there can be unexpected movement of cars. If the tagger did not enter the property by the entrance to the yard then it is his fault if he gets injured. Are railroads going to spend millions to fence in their yards to keep out taggers? Rail cops can not be everywhere all the time. I know from hanging out around Balmer Yard in Seattle that there is just one or maybe 2 cops on duty for the whole yard. They patrol the areas that are wide open and accessable to their vehicles. But at the same time in Seattle they like to hang out near a open area close to some sidings in a industrial area. They put a sign up at the end of the pavement stating that it is railroad property. Whoa to those that ignore this when the cop shows up and chews you out if not worse for "trespassing" even in a "safe" area.

 Now as to the issue of graffiti on rail cars, I am with the pro side. If its clean and nice looking and not just 'tags' then why not employ a urban art program. But then again, nice graffiti will be overrun by taggers and others who feel it is their right to overspray the good stuff.

If railroads want to prevent graffiti on their cars then they should do one of two things. 1) "wrap" the car like a transit bus with an advertisement or 2) use a antigraffiti coating on their cars so that the graffiti will come off with a strong detergent.

[Modelcar]

.....Isn't it a fact RR's are thining down all programs and employment as much as possible.  I'd doubt if they would want an "art" program in regard to their frieght cars.

I agree about the Liabitlity concerns....

[joegreen]

.....Isn't it a fact RR's are thining down all programs and employment as much as possible....

Like the graffiti removal program.

[CSXDixieLine]

I am amazed at how many people think that railcars are part of the public domain and we can do anything we want with them--paint them, hop a ride, etc. They are railroad property and as such are being vandalized when graffiti is applied. Around my area every day when I go to work I see another privacy fence tagged with some Latino gang graffiti. Remember when you used to see nice stained privacy fences? No more around here--they have all been painted over because of the graffiti. And I can almost guarantee when I see it painted over, it will be back within a few weeks. I wonder how the property owners would feel if they were told, "Hey there is no harm done, these are just artists. Maybe you should just let them paint your fence or retaining wall or mailbox or house. No harm done."

Whew want got me fired up today?!? Sorry...  ***END OF RANT*****

[Ulrich]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them) would enjoy it much less on their own car or house or other PERSONAL property. If these so called artists were any good they would be gainfully employed as artists and not vagrant despoilers of others' property.  But they're no good and so they give away their time freely producing crap that nobody wants to see.

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

[SW 1200]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them) would enjoy it much less on their own car or house or other PERSONAL property. If these so called artists were any good they would be gainfully employed as artists and not vagrant despoilers of others' property.  But they're no good and so they give away their time freely producing crap that nobody wants to see.

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ulrich,

I said essentially the same thing on PAGE ONE of this thread:  These "artists" are criminals who deface property that does not belong to them.  I'll say it again: These so called "artists" are losers.  Arrest them and prosecute them when they are caught.  Make them pay real money to repair the damage they have done.   

Tony Mireles

Calumet City, IL

[SW 1200]

Yes, some of the graffiti is artistic but the "artists" are criminals who deface property that does not belong to them.  Although I enjoy the arts and painting, I think the graffiti thing has gotten out of hand.  And although it is difficult to keep people from doing it, I would never condone it.  I think those who do it are losers. 

 

a signature on one of the posts:

"graffiti--a way of life"

My take:

"graffiti--get a life"

 

TonyM

 

From page one of this thread.

TonyM.

[Soo 6604]

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Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.

They even redid the reporting marks

[joegreen]

Kuhr Resa and Aware did that smurf car. They also did the care bear car and theres 1 more that only Resa and Aware did.

See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397611@N02/1340583232/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/artistikfunk/2066007267/

[zardoz]

Kuhr Resa and Aware did that smurf car. They also did the care bear car and theres 1 more that only Resa and Aware did.

See here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397611@N02/1340583232/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/artistikfunk/2066007267/

As much as I hate graffiti, I gotta admit that those are very nicely done, as is the example from SOO6604. 

[Ted Marshall]

Thanks Pasadena Sub...finally somebody said it: graffiti disrespects private property..

That statement really goes without saying, doesn't it? Of course it disrespects private property. Private property is disrespected all the time. Hasn't anybody ever cut through someone elses yard to avoid having to walk around the block? Remember trying to be real sly about it too, making sure that the resident or a neighbor doesn't see you? There's a reason why it felt wrong as you were doing it...It's because it was wrong and you knew it. Not to condone or encourage trespassing here...By no means, I assure you. But sadly respect isn't as common as it once was. Besides, I don't believe that the railroads even care about respect anyway, all they care about is making money and having to spend as little as possible.

The real issue here is the defacing of private property. Destroying or ruining the appeal/apperance of something of value that does not belong to you.

Those of us who enjoy graffiti (I'm not one of them)

(sure you're not ...Just kidding)

But the whole point of this post wasn't to discuss the merits of graffiti...it was to discuss how easy it is to access railroad property. If these aimless sprayers can access  a tank car then what could a motivated terrorist accomplish?...The sprayer is out there spraying while those of us who work and support our families get micro screened at the airport.

That IS a very good point, one of which I share the exact same views and opinions as yours. As I stated in a previous reply:

"Way too much money poured into and resources wasted putting on a front in order to soothe our minds. Way too little concern with the real threats. Bulk HAZMAT on rail is a potential WMD if it falls into the wrong hands. More attention must be paid to places where bulk HAZMAT is unloaded and stored NOT just where it's loaded."

 "I think that if you get caught doing ANYTHING to a railcar that has a HAZMAT placard on it or any adjoining car they should throw the book at you and treat you as a potential terrorist. That may curb the practice but enforcement is key. The way I see it local authorities need to take this threat seriously and not pass the buck to the railroads."

Meaning simply...Railroad and local authorities need to coordinate security efforts with one another and since railroad security is loose by design and railroad police officers are so sparse the local authorities need to be, for the sake of the community they serve, more proactive with regard to what going on where railcars are stored in their towns. With my idea, if you get caught doing anything to, on or near a railcar which contains bulk HAZMAT in a populated area the incident would automatically become an issue of national security and would fall under the jurisdiction of The Dept. of Homeland Security. I guarantee that if people knew that DHS would get involved they may think twice about tagging that car and trespassing for that matter. Just my