Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Modelcar wrote: ....Don't know the rail miles of count now but it never was even one million. It's now counted in hundred thousands of miles or less.
....Don't know the rail miles of count now but it never was even one million. It's now counted in hundred thousands of miles or less.
peak milage in the US was around a quarter million just before WW1 IIRC....route miles...not track miles
I wonder what a full graffiti cleanup program would cost us?
I mean, the railroads would have to hire a ton of new people and purchase a lot of new equipment for these cleanup shops. Not to mention relabeling the cars with all the required information. If they did that, they wouldn't just absorb the costs. Likely they would increase the amount of money they charge to ship stuff. And if the suppliers have to pay more, they're going to have to increase the price of their product. And if they increase the price of their product, the store will have to charge more.
In the end, it may only cost us consumers a few cents for each item we purchase. But with costs already going up across the board because of our bad energy policies, every cent counts.
tree68 wrote:Where do they get their paint? Probably the same place you do, except you pay for yours before you take it out of the store....
They rack paint from the mom and pop stores because of little security. They buy from the big stores like walmart if they have to because of security cameras.
Otherwise the most of the time they buy graffiti paint which isnt really available to the general public
www.store-montana.com
www.mtncolors.com
www.molotow.com
JoeGreen,
You seem to know a lot about this topic.
Could you please post a photo of your hands so we can check them for overspray?
SW 1200 wrote: JoeGreen, You seem to know a lot about this topic.Could you please post a photo of you hands so we can check them for overspray?
Could you please post a photo of you hands so we can check them for overspray?
I havnt heard much about overspray since the invention of gloves ;)
espeefoamer wrote:Just about the WORST grafitti job I ever saw was on an SP SD40T-2.The entire engine had been painted yellow,with the words "UNION PACIFIC" on the side.This looked quite proffesional,so must have taken quite a while to paint.Where was security?
Seems to be common. That was done to every single CNW unit i have ever seen too.
Actually graffiti is on almost all rolling stock around here. The worst I've seen was on a CNW malt hopper. Someone put "SUX" under the big black "CNW" on the side. I've seen it on at least 3 too. Can't you MILW heads keep your opinions to yourselves?
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
An IMRL conductor told me a story a long time ago (I think it would've been '97) about how he worked a yard in East St. Louis before he hired on with I&M Rail Link. He said a couple carmen reported some kids were spray-painting cars in one end of the yard and they caught them (I assume it was the railroad police/security). He said one of the morons tried to run, but his baggy pants tripped him up and when they wrestled him down his pants were down to his knees, underwear too.
As he related the story to me, the security guys administered their own sentence for his crime: They took the two cans he had on him and spray-painted his butt.
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Pasadena Sub wrote:Many communities have passed very stringent graffiti laws, mostly to combat gang graffiti. For example, in my county you can be cited if you do not remove graffiti from your property within 24 hours. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know how/if the railroads are subject to any of these types of laws?
Certainly an incentive to reduce dwell times - just move the car out of there. Doesn't answer the question of cars arriving with grafitti already on them, though...
.....Believe we need a methiod to punish the perpetraters instead putting it on the victims.
Quentin
As long as the car can carry revenue and all needed markings and safety devices are in place, I really think the railroads could care less. It is a fact of life - just like advertising on every square inch of the country.
I've seen some pretty neat stuff out there. I could getr upset - but life is too short to worry about covered hoppers.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
True - the railroads could care less - and I don't blame them.
The issue for me is the broken window theory. If you leave a window broken, people will break the other windows as they pass by.
I'm not honestly saying I have any sort of workable solution to this. I'm just saying it perpetuates itself because it's not removed.
zugmann wrote:Broken windows is easy as the windows don't move thousands of miles. I do not know if the theory can work in such a distance. Plus the cars aren't usually owned by the railroad, and I doubt First Union (or any other leaser or private company) would pay a bill for a railroad removing graffiti.
Yeah i agree with that. Thats probably the main reason why railroads are making no ground on graffiti. Maybe never will who knows.
Til the day we see cameras on everything in the yards and sidings in the middle of knowwhere i dont think graffiti will really be stopped. Just like the subway, it was never totally stopped. Some of the subway kings are still hittin those trains but most of it can be buffed in a day or 2. The new trend in graffiti seems to be dressin in a hard hat and safety vest like the employees. Its easier to get in a yard that way im assuming
....No you probably can't stop it completely....and sadly, it shows a % of our population's character....Disregarding someone else's property.
Just last evening parked at one of my spots here in Muncie along side the NS's Frankfort line....A long train with many, many tanks in the consist.....and some had graffiti and more than a few had obliterated to a dergee over the Reporting Marks....
The reporting marks will get re-stenciled soon enough. Most of the "in the know" taggers don't cover up the data. Others actually re-stencil the data on the car...
zugmann wrote: The reporting marks will get re-stenciled soon enough. Most of the "in the know" taggers don't cover up the data. Others actually re-stencil the data on the car...
You are correct sir. If you paint over the numbers the railroad will surely come and stamp it in a short amount of time. That is why more and more artists are taping over the numbers while they paint and remove it after or just hand paint around it. Some even redo the numbers with stylish look to em.
I've seen that also. Not only on tunnel motors but other locos and roads like C&NW too. Some locos look really campy with only yellow patches on the cab sides with red numbers.
Tracking down those responsible for graffiti is difficult because most appliers of graffiti (AKA "writers")are irresponsible. It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars.
Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there.
Al - in - Stockton
These are my top three:
#1: Ardmore, Narberth or somewhere on Pennsy's "Main LIne" west of Philly in the mid-sixties. Someone(s) painted L-I-O-N-E-L in 3 or 4 foot high letters neatly stencilled between the girder bridge's ribs over a busy street. 24 hours a day PRR's Paoli Locals and GG1s zipped overhead and all below could readjust their perception of reality.
#2: Washington DC's Capital Beltway (I-495) outer loop, heading south after the Silver Spring exit, mid 70's, after dark. CSX/ex-B&O's Metropolitan Sub crossing on a girder bridge. "YES DOROTHY, THERE REALLY IS AN OZ". The backdrop was the Mormon cathedral highly illuminated and looking for all the world like a deco Magic Kingdom. More than average wit at work.
#3: Washington DC's New York Avenue NE ca. 2002. Thousands of vehicles daily pass under an abandoned industrial spur's 2-span girder bridge then and today. Sixty feet from the corridor's main going into Union Station and 2 blocks from work. Perfect! I decided the motorists needed something cheerful on this shabby approach to the Capital. Pink Flamingos!!! Planned it in 2001 but 9/11 and fear of arrest intervened. Pulled it off in late summer 2002.
Wearing a hard hat and a safety vest, I struggled through thick vines and thorns and installed pre-cut and drilled wood blocks using Liquid Nails on DAY ONE. They were neatly aligned every third rib, 12 to a side. The 24 flamingos had propellor wings and wire legs. On DAY TWO I installed the birds and man, I was nervous. All those vehicles below, 5th District police station 3 blocks away, and a 7 story motel almost overhanging the site. Traffic lights a block away in either direction regulated the traffic somewhat and I popped up and placed the birds in rhythm with the traffic's stop and go. When done I looked up to see a hotel guest watching me from on high. Wonder what he thought. With a spring in my step I walked back to work but stopped twice to admire the wings spinning in moderate breezes.
Next thing was to tell my cohorts at work, customers and friends. Called my folks in Reading PA. My Dad: "I always wanted to do something like that!". My Mom: "Richard! At your age!". People call me Rick and I was 56 at the time. Funny how the women in my life say "Richard" when they're upset at me.
High winds 2 weeks later started the flamingos' deterioration and now only a few wire "legs" survive. It was the grandest gesture in my life, and as an experience it is up there with the 40 guest, 600 pie "fight" friends and I staged in a townhouse we had gutted.
There are certain things in life you just gotta do once!!!
Rixflix
\
rixflix aka Captain Video. Blessed be Jean Shepherd and all His works!!! Hooray for 1939, the all time movie year!!! I took that ride on the Reading but my Baby caught the Katy and left me a mule to ride.
passengerfan wrote: Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars. Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there. Al - in - Stockton
Moo!
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Mookie wrote: passengerfan wrote: Here in my city they recently passed the toughest Graffiti law in the state of California and after only one month we are seeing results. Anyone who reports seeing someone painting graffiti can get a thousand dollar reward if the police apprehend them and if they are juveniles there parents are subject to up to a thirty thousand dollar fine. The City has three graffiti units on the street daily that spend each and every day covering graffiti with paint. They were going to put a fourth out when they passed the new law. The first offender was in court yesterday and they identified the young culprit as part of a gang and he had put his message over the entire south end of the city. His parents were fined the max 30,000.00 and will probably have to mortgage there house to pay the fine. The son 16 will spend the entire summer painting over graffiti while assigned to one of the graffiti trucks and for every day he shows up and works the parents fine will be reduced by 50.00 dollars. Justice is served. The city fights back and maybe the message will get out there. Al - in - StocktonI know someone will (metaphorically) hit me with a board for this: I like this! This shows how you should involve the parent(s) in their childs activities - good or bad. Involve the parents to the point where it hurts and we will see less of this kind of behavior. Kudos to the person that implemented this!Moo!
Well Mook, it won't be me that hits you with the board!
I agree, somebody needs to be accountable, and that is a very good place to start.
For my $ .02 cents graffiti IS a crime that should be delt with!
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
joegreen wrote: gabe wrote: Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?Gabe Id pay someone to do that to my car, cuz ive seen this hopper hes talkin about and the paint and can controll is crazy good.The same guys also did a care bear one. Its somewhere on this forum....
gabe wrote: Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?Gabe
Last Chance wrote:Once in a while... you have a work of art that uses something that everyone understands well. We had a two bay covered hopper with a Smurf Village replicated nearly perfectly matched to the TV series long ago roll by once. Very well done I must say.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. But, so you don't mind if I go paint smurf village on your car or house?
Gabe
Id pay someone to do that to my car, cuz ive seen this hopper hes talkin about and the paint and can controll is crazy good.
The same guys also did a care bear one. Its somewhere on this forum....
Maybe someone will do a mural of my favorite 80's cartoon, Wildfire (do a search on it if your curious about it) on a boxcar someday.
No doubt unless some EXTREMELY harsh punishment system is implemented and enforced the're will always be graffiti. (thae california one is good).
Especially after what i remember seeing at Wal Mart a couple of years ago (Someone may have mentioned it allready). They were selling N scale boxcars and hoppers with graffiti from well known artists on them, complete with collectors cards. In the diecast car section of the toy dept (nice message to kids eh?).
MOPACnut wrote: Especially after what i remember seeing at Wal Mart a couple of years ago (Someone may have mentioned it allready). They were selling N scale boxcars and hoppers with graffiti from well known artists on them, complete with collectors cards. In the diecast car section of the toy dept (nice message to kids eh?).
Yes, I remember those. I recall noticing them while I was shopping for a present for my nephew's birthday. They were pulled from store shelves about a month after appearing on them. Lead paint, I believe was the cause.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
WP 3020 wrote: ......It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
......It has been explained by a writer, in one of the books of graffiti I have in my possession, that if you paint graffiti on a wall, only people who come to that location see your work. But if you paint on a freight car, it travels to where many people can notice your work. So, if you think about it, if you paint graffiti in relative safety unnoticed in an obscure low traffic aria. Not only will you be unnoticed by many people, but your work also. But you can find a RR car in an obscure low traffic area and paint in relative safety but it will be seen by many later. That is why you always hear people ask where do they paint graffiti on those RR cars? Location, location, location... the same applies to graffiti as advertising. They don't advertise the location where they paint the graffiti, but the location on which they paint the graffiti advertises them.
Just curious...does the book mention what, exactly, these "artists" hope to accomplish by people seeing their "work" in so many places? It's not like people are going to see a graffiti'd car and say, "Gee, that sure looks nice. Let's find out who did that so we can hire him to do our next advertising campaign". Perhaps they just want to be famous in the tagger world.
I will admit, however, that of the 10000000 or so freight cars I've seen in my many years, there were perhaps maybe a dozen that I thought were done by someone who truly could be an artist had they been given the opportunity to properly develop their talent in an environment more conducive to social acceptance.
This reminds me of a sting operation I saw on TV a while back. I have no idea what show it was, but I do know it was one of those real life TV shows, not a dramatization.
Basically the police put out an ad posing as a hollywood studio that needed to hire grafitti artists to do some work painting grafitti on set pieces for an upcoming movie. A bunch of people showed up, and each got a large area on which to "demonstrate" their work. The police then matched up their samples with actual graffiti around town and arrested those who showed a match. Kinda like matching up people's handwriting.
On another point, I do wonder how many artists (legitimate artists who paint for a living) would be interested in painting several rail cars if the railroad offered them the opportunity. Or even organize something with schools to have kids come down and paint up a car. At least then they'd have control over the content. I've seen stuff like this from time to time at various locations in the city.
Anything would be better than the BNSF "swoosh"...
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