Going back to the original topic - I have a question from The Driver: You can go to Rochelle, cross the tracks at will, stand right next to the tracks, and, having been there, watch the BNSF go through there at a fairly high rate of speed.
No one patrols there. No one makes you get back 100 feet. No one even seems to be all that interested in what is going on except the devoted rail fans.
So this is different from our watching on private property within the 100 foot requirement, how?
Don't need an argument, just a polite explanation.
Mook
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
zardoz wrote: WIAR wrote: "Pit of paranoia" we're descending into? Have you read the papers lately? Maybe if people had been just a little more "paranoid", the scum who commandeered those planes on 9-11 might have been investigated before 3000+ people died. Perhaps if imbeciles would quit shootin'-up shopping malls and schools, and committing every other act of savage violence we get to hear about on a daily basis, and innocent, law-abiding citizens wouldn't have to worry about gettin' clipped by some baboon who thinks the thug-lifestyle is glamorous, we wouldn't need cameras in every corner and you wouldn't have to be disgusted.Dude, may I suggest you stop watching Fox news so much. Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger.ConfuciusThe most terrifying words in the English langauge are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Ronald ReaganAny nation that thinks more of its ease and comfort than its freedom will soon lose its freedom; and the ironical thing about it is that it will lose its ease and comfort too. W Somerset MaughamNo man is enitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation. Douglas MacarthurI believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. President James MadisonA free America... means just this: individual freedom for all, rich or poor, or else this system of government we call democracy is only an expedient to enslave man to the machine and make him like it. Frank Lloyd Wright
WIAR wrote: "Pit of paranoia" we're descending into? Have you read the papers lately? Maybe if people had been just a little more "paranoid", the scum who commandeered those planes on 9-11 might have been investigated before 3000+ people died. Perhaps if imbeciles would quit shootin'-up shopping malls and schools, and committing every other act of savage violence we get to hear about on a daily basis, and innocent, law-abiding citizens wouldn't have to worry about gettin' clipped by some baboon who thinks the thug-lifestyle is glamorous, we wouldn't need cameras in every corner and you wouldn't have to be disgusted.
"Pit of paranoia" we're descending into? Have you read the papers lately? Maybe if people had been just a little more "paranoid", the scum who commandeered those planes on 9-11 might have been investigated before 3000+ people died. Perhaps if imbeciles would quit shootin'-up shopping malls and schools, and committing every other act of savage violence we get to hear about on a daily basis, and innocent, law-abiding citizens wouldn't have to worry about gettin' clipped by some baboon who thinks the thug-lifestyle is glamorous, we wouldn't need cameras in every corner and you wouldn't have to be disgusted.
Dude, may I suggest you stop watching Fox news so much.
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger.Confucius
The most terrifying words in the English langauge are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Ronald Reagan
Any nation that thinks more of its ease and comfort than its freedom will soon lose its freedom; and the ironical thing about it is that it will lose its ease and comfort too. W Somerset Maugham
No man is enitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation. Douglas Macarthur
I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. President James Madison
A free America... means just this: individual freedom for all, rich or poor, or else this system of government we call democracy is only an expedient to enslave man to the machine and make him like it. Frank Lloyd Wright
Interesting how all the people you quote are dead, and therefore not here to comment on the world as it stands today. Sorry, stick your own head in the sand and go on dreaming that if we all just hold hands and sing, "We Are The World", we'll achieve Nirvana. Nope. If the railroads want to enforce their policies regarding trespassing, and their reasons are centered on Homeland Security or any other factor(s), then I have no problem snapping my pictures from a safe distance. If you honestly believe this heightened attention to trespassing is some further evidence of a vast right-wing conspiracy to deprive you of your non-denominational-all-inclusive-non-culturally-specific-deity-given right to complain, well, I guess I have little to say to convince you otherwise.
Phoebe Vet wrote: Selector:I don't know about the others, but I, for one, do NOT think the old days were more innocent or more friendly. In fact, I think just the opposite. I believe that we are in no greater danger now than we have ever been, and that the climate of fear that currently permeates our society is completely groundless.Does any rational human actually think that a loosely organized band of primitive religious zealots is a greater threat than the "cold war"? Is the thought of Iran having a couple of Nukes even remotely in the same class as when the USSR had THOUSANDS of nuclear intercontinental Ballistic missiles, and hundreds of submarine based nuclear missiles all carefully aimed our way?If you think crazy people with guns are something new, then you weren't black in the south in the '50s.As far as your prediction that future generations will not understand my generation's concerns about loss of freedom, you are probably correct. You tend to not miss what you never had. The current crop of young people (under 40) have been having their lockers, book bags, backpacks, and pockets randomly searched since the third grade. They tend to be less disturbed when the government wants to do it to them as adults.What is really different today is that we have competing 24 hour a day news media, who overly dramatize everything in the never ending quest for ratings. Burglaries have become "home invasions", cars no longer have accident's, they "slam into each other", and crimes are generalized to make the danger seem much worse than it is. If an illegal immigrant drives drunk and is involved in a fatal auto accident, the news will point out how many thousands of aliens are illegally here and lead the citizens who tend to not actually think things through to believe that the roads are therefore overrun with drunken aliens. Child predators are lumped in with tens of thousands of people who have been convicted of some kind of crime that involves sex, so that people think that there are thousands of evil sex offenders prowling the streets hunting our children.The fear is paralyzing our society, and causing us to give up everything that made America unique.Now, since this has really strayed from the trains subject, I will not post anything else on this subject.
Selector:
I don't know about the others, but I, for one, do NOT think the old days were more innocent or more friendly. In fact, I think just the opposite. I believe that we are in no greater danger now than we have ever been, and that the climate of fear that currently permeates our society is completely groundless.
Does any rational human actually think that a loosely organized band of primitive religious zealots is a greater threat than the "cold war"? Is the thought of Iran having a couple of Nukes even remotely in the same class as when the USSR had THOUSANDS of nuclear intercontinental Ballistic missiles, and hundreds of submarine based nuclear missiles all carefully aimed our way?
If you think crazy people with guns are something new, then you weren't black in the south in the '50s.
As far as your prediction that future generations will not understand my generation's concerns about loss of freedom, you are probably correct. You tend to not miss what you never had. The current crop of young people (under 40) have been having their lockers, book bags, backpacks, and pockets randomly searched since the third grade. They tend to be less disturbed when the government wants to do it to them as adults.
What is really different today is that we have competing 24 hour a day news media, who overly dramatize everything in the never ending quest for ratings. Burglaries have become "home invasions", cars no longer have accident's, they "slam into each other", and crimes are generalized to make the danger seem much worse than it is. If an illegal immigrant drives drunk and is involved in a fatal auto accident, the news will point out how many thousands of aliens are illegally here and lead the citizens who tend to not actually think things through to believe that the roads are therefore overrun with drunken aliens. Child predators are lumped in with tens of thousands of people who have been convicted of some kind of crime that involves sex, so that people think that there are thousands of evil sex offenders prowling the streets hunting our children.
The fear is paralyzing our society, and causing us to give up everything that made America unique.
Now, since this has really strayed from the trains subject, I will not post anything else on this subject.
The one problem I see with this line of thinking is that the leaders of the USSR, up until Gorby, lived through the horrors of World War II, and they saw the unbelievable devastation that was delivered onto their homeland. The Soviets lost somewhere near 30 million people, and their leadership had those very real visions of the effect of "total war" ever-present in their minds as a very sobering factor. The Islamic militants of today have no such experiences - not even close, and they have little interest in understanding such realities. That's all I have to say on this subject, since it's off th topic of railroading.
Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?
Enough already!
Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around? Enough already!
Hey Harry, long time no see. How's things in Bala Cynwyd these days?
CN is free to protects it's private property. So go away if you don't like it. Maybe a hobby like collecting toenail clippings would be less stressful for you?
Mookie wrote: Going back to the original topic - I have a question from The Driver: You can go to Rochelle, cross the tracks at will, stand right next to the tracks, and, having been there, watch the BNSF go through there at a fairly high rate of speed. No one patrols there. No one makes you get back 100 feet. No one even seems to be all that interested in what is going on except the devoted rail fans. So this is different from our watching on private property within the 100 foot requirement, how?Don't need an argument, just a polite explanation. Mook
Jen, there may not be a legitimate answer to your question, except that some employees in the other places are being "pro-active" (don't particularly like the term, but can't think of a better one).
There have been many times when I've been to Rochelle and have seen action that makes me cringe. If it doesn't make other railroaders (i.e., the ones who are on duty and passing through there) cringe as well, I'd be surprised.
Since you and Ed last visited Rochelle, some rules and appropriate signage have been prominently posted, prohibiting children from going too close to the tracks. I've not seen anything enforced by anyone except parents so far, but one of these times a child in an adult body is going to either come to grief himself or will cause somebody else a bit of grief (or maybe just an upsetting, scary moment). If that happens, you may see the railroad's police descend upon the place from time to time, protecting the interests of their respective companies.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Thank you Carl. Poke me with a fork. I am done!
Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already!
I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.
By the way, thanks for the compliment.
hey selector any time we get a conversation going and if it dont go along with your way of thinking, or it dont paint a colorful and happy picture you lock the thread if someone dont agree with a comment spoken and disputes it with common sense and facts you lock the thread. Or when the true railroaders say the truth you lock the thread. I have only 2 things to say .... Bergie screwed up when he left you in charge, and lock the thread.
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
CopCarSS wrote:Wow...I just posted a quick note warning railfans to watch where their feet resided while partaking in our hobby and it's turned into a political discourse again.
I'm sorry. It's probably my fault.
As anyone can tell, I feel very passionate that we are on the wrong path, but I did not intend to hijack the thread. That is why I have not responded to recent conflicting opinions.
Mea culpa.....
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
If I can comment on the original topic - I've seen all kinds of "No Tresspassing" signs go up on CN property in my part of the world (N.E. Wisconsin.)
Kind of sad when compared to the relatively "railfan friendly" attitude of prior owner WC.
Although - the Green Bay and Western had a long time policy of very little tolerance for railfan poking around - though, if I recall, that resulted from some folks who grossly overstepped their bounds and ruined for the rest of us.
In addition to the security paranoia, things like this probably are responsible as well:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15446658/
zardoz wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already! I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.By the way, thanks for the compliment.
Very good zardoz, very good indeed!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Zug:
Some of the decaffeinated brands are just as tasty...
Nah.... gotta stay away from that coffee crap... puts me to sleep..
Ulrich wrote:CN isn't being unreasonable...we don't have to be that close anyway to enjoy the action.
Agreed.
I'm not sure why some people are so outraged by the fact that CN is cracking down on trespassers. It seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to do.
In addition, the people who have hijacked this thread and turned it into the typical political battle should be ashamed. I highly doubt that CopCar intended for this to happen with this thread.
Willy
zardoz wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already! I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.
My what a witty retort!
I bet you stayed up all night thinking up this didn't you?
eolafan wrote: zardoz wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already! I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.By the way, thanks for the compliment. Very good zardoz, very good indeed!
Sigh! Yet another "super genius" encouraging the other "super genius"
Harry_Runyon wrote: zardoz wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already! I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.My what a witty retort! I bet you stayed up all night thinking up this didn't you?
At least this "super genius" payed attention in English Composition 101, so much so that I know that the correct sentence structure would be "I'll bet you stayed up all night thinking this up, didn't you?".
Let's agree right now to a cessation of hostilities before this thread gets really nasty, and believe me when I say it truly can degrade very quickly and none of us want that. Remember the old saying that reads something like "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"...well Harry I suggest you stop throwing "stones" so none come back over the fence at you in the future.
eolafan wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: zardoz wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: Does anyone else get tired when these so-called libertarians throw these mind-numbing quotes around?Enough already! I am not surprised that those simple quotes numbed your mind...I would imagine that happens quite often to you.My what a witty retort! I bet you stayed up all night thinking up this didn't you? At least this "super genius" payed attention in English Composition 101, so much so that I know that the correct sentence structure would be "I'll bet you stayed up all night thinking this up, didn't you?". Let's agree right now to a cessation of hostilities before this thread gets really nasty, and believe me when I say it truly can degrade very quickly and none of us want that. Remember the old saying that reads something like "People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"...well Harry I suggest you stop throwing "stones" so none come back over the fence at you in the future.
How 'bout you just mind your own business?
Willy2 wrote: I highly doubt that CopCar intended for this to happen with this thread.
Indeed not. I merely wanted to bring the crack-down to light because I know that I've inadvertantly wandered onto RR property before while composing shots. I just wanted everyone to realize that CN had instituted a zero tolerance policy and that they should fully be aware of where they are railfanning as there appears that there will be no exceptions in the future on the CN. My post was in no way meant to convey a feeling of "right to be on the property," but rather serve as a warning to all railfans.
At any rate, Willy, once again you've proved that despite your youth, you are in fact more mature than many participants in this forum.
No offense Eola, but after reading your post I would not be playing the proper grammar card.Bottom line - stay off the ROW. Too many people out here have been splattered by trains.PS>> I never went for the mature thing. Nanner, nanner.PPS.>> lighten up a little guys.. you'll live longer.
Said I was done, but time for another quick question?
In cities where railroads go through part of the town, do the railroads ever own the property that a business sits on? ie - the business owns the building, but the railroad owns the property?
(especially ones that sit very close to the tracks?)
zugmann wrote: No offense Eola, but after reading your post I would not be playing the proper grammar card.Bottom line - stay off the ROW. Too many people out here have been splattered by trains.PS>> I never went for the mature thing. Nanner, nanner.PPS.>> lighten up a little guys.. you'll live longer.
Possibly the wisest post I have seen on this thread!
zugmann wrote:You feel proud of yourself for making that up all on your own zardoz??? Libertarians believe in personal rights and no gov't interference? Well that is what CN and other RRs are doing. They are protecting their assets by keeping lawsuit-happy trespassers off their property. I bet these "libertarians" are the first ones to sue when they do something stupid.
I am not sure they get the point. Private property is a huge issue when it comes to the Constitution. CN, or any railroad for that matter can have you arrested at the blink of an eye when you cross the line onto their property. End of conversation.
There are signs I am sure on CN's property, as there is on Union Pacific's ROW. I catch a trespasser, I ask once. If they don't understand the concept, I let the local police explain it. Should that fail, and it has, they end up at the County Bed and Breakfast eating beans and bologna.
My safety, more over, the safety of my fellow employees, is more important that any photograph. That includes watching some dummy fall on his keister while on the property, and getting hurt or worse. It has happened before, and we do not want it happening again. So pay heed to CN, or carry a bond card with you.
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