K.P.'s pics seem to confirm that UP has modestly improved the condition of the line, compared to 2011 Google street view photos. Apparently there are enough present and probable future customers to justify this. No passenger service, but it is possible that a customer may require materials that trigger the 'Toxic Inhalant Hazard' requirement for PTC.
ccltrainsKP- is the industrial complex the Palo Verde generating station?
@desertdog has better memory of this, but IIRC the Maricopa county transpo planners have a 'dream' of 'commuter rail' service west from Phoenix to SR-85 and then south to the booming metropolis of Gila Bend. Someone's abusing their medical weed perscription ....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Just did a little arithmetic. This thread has been up a little over eight and a half years, and it has averaged a little over 449 views per day during that time.
Wow!
Second Section
Eastbound from the Coachella, CA area (See Part I) the Sunset Route straddles the Salton Sea, and eventually comes to Niland, where the Calexico Sub branches off southward with a wye arrangement, and heads to the border with Mexico. North of Brawly the line crosses Street 115.
The grade crossing and track arrangement is unusual in that there are seemingly TWO separate lines, each separated by maybe a hundred feet. The east track looking northwest:
The actual un-signaled mainline looking north:
Looking south:
Continued …
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Second Section (Continued)
A hundred feet to the east is that other north-south track, looking south:
Looking north, and parked cars on a switch:
A last northward look with those parked freight cars on the right.
Reportedly, an investment group is making headway to reopening the line through Carrizo Gorge (the old San Diego & Arizona Eastern route, once owned by Southern Pacific). Thus, someday the above pictured line may see through freights from Mexico to Niland and points east. K.P. will believe it when he sees it, but can you imagine the gates at Street 115 going up and down a number of times per day with from or to Mexico trains, or the Calexico Sub getting CTC signals or even two-tracks with universal crossovers? K.P. can, but like was said just above he will believe it when he sees it!
This will totally end the series.
ChuckCobleigh Just did a little arithmetic. This thread has been up a little over eight and a half years, and it has averaged a little over 449 views per day during that time. Wow!
Just goes to show that there are many who lurk here on the forums but never post. It may seem like we're a closed little community of a relatively small number of enthusiasts, but we're not.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
K. P. HarrierNorth of Brawly the line crosses Street 115.
That would be in Calipatria ("Calipat" to locals at one time) where Highway 115 crosses the railroad.
Interestingly, from Google Earth, I find a grain loading loop just south of Calipatria on the west side of the line on what was formerly an 80-acre chunk of farmed land, at least up to about 2005. A couple of images in the older "time machine" sequence have most of the loop occupied by hoppers and a couple of engines.
That's a little more modern than the sugar beet loadout that was (maybe still is?) in Seeley, where the cars were moved by hooking a cable to them and pulling them forward with a tractor (probably was an International, because in my fading memory it was red in color).
KP Said: Surprisingly, once the last car cleared Highway 347 and the gates went up, traffic cleared in just a short time. K.P. had heard stories and expected the town to be totally log jammed for another ten miles, but traffic cleared in just a minute or two.
--------------
The fact the train was early/on-time during daylight savings time is why you didn't see any traffic.
Come visit when California is on Standard time and it's arriving at 0640. I'm guessing you'll see a much different scenario.
Maybe these guys will get it done ...
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/sdut-desert-line-gets-new-operator-repairs-starting-2016jun09-story.html
Google Maps has the name W SOUTHERN PACIFIC TRAIL showing alongside the tracks west of Narremore Rd. (Near Red Hawk Power Plant) But it looks to not be a threat to the railroad as it appears to be a separate graded surface. And from there to Yuma, I did not see (on Google) any signals until I get almost to Wellton and the merge with the Tucson (Gila) line. What may be distant signals are seen East of the S Ave 33 E.where there apears to be a feed lot rail customer with a switcher and a string of grain hoppers. At 32.705257, -114.024947, Also another customer East of Roll at 4730-4950 South Avenue 38 East
32.754762, -113.985780
And another customer, Fertizona - Roll, L.L.C but no cars in its siding at 32.764443, -113.971205
Looks like a propane & fertilizer distributer.
And East of Roll at 32.786439, -113.927216 are stored open hopper cars.
The Railroad Atlas indicates there were DTC track warrent blocks for this line.
MikeF90:
There have been various pipe dreams offered up for the UP in the Phoenix area. The Valley, as we call it, continues to grow, though not quite at the pre-2008 pace. I can see commuter service to the west eventually, perhaps to Goodyear, although Phoenix Metro has also talked of a light rail line parallel to I-10 farther to the north. That seems more logical from the standpoint of population density and ease of connections to Tempe, Mesa, North Phoenix, etc.
There has also been discussion and even public comment on rail commuter service between Phoenix and Tucson. At least there is some reality to this in that there is considerable traffic back and forth between the state's two largest cities. I can't imagine there's much of an existing market to Gila Bend. Moreover, it would be a stretch to justify the cost, inasmuch as no rails exist for much of the proposed route.
John Timm
Number Three 1950Fertilization almost always has cars next to it. I'm guessing they are ammonia for the fertilizer. To the east of that on the line is a large propane transloading facility that BNSF serves. Further east is the old siding going to Luke AFB that is no longer connected to the base. I assume they get their fuel by pipeline now. An old SF caboose is sitting on it in tough condition. It doesn't appear it has been moved for years.
Number Three 1950:
I believe you are thinking about the line out to Fennemore from El Mirage. At one time a connection did exist along Cotton Way down to the SP at Goodyear. However, that had to be 40-50 years ago. Up until the 1980s or so, you could see the grade clearly along Cotton Way. The southern stub of the line from the UP at Goodyear Airport was torn up a couple of years ago. It extended as far as a warehouse just north of I-10.
This saturday there will be a celebration on 9th street in Colton at the end of regular service, the wig-wag will be turned off. As far as the signals on Tehachapi (east side) UP's plan to have bi-directional CTC has been in the works for so long most of the people involved have or will retire soon (or have left the company for another RR ).
A10
ps: much earlier mentions on the BNSF Transcon relate to this news note - only 4 miles of single track remain now.
Rock Island and the Sunset Route
Part “A” (of A-B)
A number of trains on the El Paso, TX-Los Angeles, CA portion of the Sunset Route come off or head onto the Golden State Route, and traverse over the El Paso, TX-Chicago, IL trackage. It has been reported in this thread in the past that the bridges on the Golden State Route were mainly old, wooden structures, and that trainmen that had to walk their train, say for a train having gone into emergency because of air hoses disconnecting, often could NOT safely cross those bridges because of the absence of a walkway and railings.
On a trip back on April 2, 2016 (that followed the Golden State Route El Paso to Vaughn) a bridge view previously posted about was shot that had NO handrails whatsoever.
In that light K.P. felt the Los Angeles-Chicago route via Salt Lake City, UT, which is slightly longer, was a better option for the railroad. However, on Monday, October 24, 2016 in his interstate travels the Tucumcari-Santa Rose, NM portion (ex-Rock Island, Chicago Rock Island & Pacific, or CRI&P with reporting marks as RI or ROCK) was passed alongside while on the I-40 Freeway and that portion of the Golden State Route could be observed much of the way. Many, many (but not all) of those old, wooden bridges without handrails had been replaced with pre-stressed concrete spans with metal I-beam supports, which new bridges included rod-like handrails and a walkway on each side of those bridges.
So, UP has been upgrading the old wooden bridges to a safer, concrete standard.
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-B)
Forum readers may remember this other April 2, 2016 view shot on the “Southern Pacific” portion of the Golden State Route (Santa Rosa to El Paso), of the wooden structure with added wire protection on one (far) side.
So, since the UP + SP merger nearly two decades ago UP slowly but surely seems to be bringing up the Golden State Route to safer standards.
The Sunset Route-Golden State Route may be slightly shorter in distance, but UP loses direct control when a train is operating over the BNSF between Kansas City and Chicago, which between two routes and between those two cities is basically a five-track mainline for over FOUR hundred miles. UP loses control for only about 100 miles near Barstow, CA and over Cajon Pass while on the LA&SL route via Salt Lake City. Until the final single-track remaining on the Sunset Route is two-tracked the route via Salt Lake City seems to be a better choice between Los Angeles and Chicago. But that route is handicapped by 5000-6000 foot sidings (9000-foot plus or minus every third siding), whereas the Golden State Route has all plus or minus 9000 foot sidings for the most part. Of course, the Golden State route also has those sidings much, much farther apart. Either way there seems to be a thorny undesirable!
One glaring thing noticed in following the BNSF southern Transcon along I-40 and elsewhere was that so many trains were stopped (“stopped”). Often nothing was moving! Nothing moving! Nothing moving! In a cursory estimate it seems that half the trains seen were stopped. Also such was in several states. One starts to wonder if a big wreck blocked the line ahead. But, trains in both directions were stopped. It may be only K.P.’s imagination, but it seemed BNSF is maybe unravelling for some reason.
In Winslow, AZ all crew change tracks (three) were in service, but still trains seemed to be log jammed. A photo of that was hoped to be shown here, but photobucket.com seems to be having massive problems right now and K.P. didn’t have a spare couple of hours to get a photo to post. (K.P. found the trainsmag.com right now is going through another of their maddening website malfunctioning times.)
It is not clear if what was seen was a quirk or the new norm. If a new norm is taking place, gridlock doesn’t bode well for BNSF’s future.
Interestingly, in Tucumcari, NM (on the ex-Rock Island portion of the Golden State Route), a westbound UP headed by UP 1989 (the maroon and red Katy Heritage unit) passed. Soon after K.P. left Tucumcari that UP 1989’s train was found to be in a siding waiting for an eastbound to pass, which eastbound did shortly come. While in the M.P. 657 area that KATY unit passed K.P. again!
That just above wooden bridge is not too far (a mile or two) west of the newer concrete bridge structure shown in Part A.
Back on the I-40 Freeway again, that westbound KATY unit and train was soon found to be stopped in another siding, but NO eastbound was met during K.P.s following the tracks further west. It is unknown if the crew got permission to sleep for a while, the westbound had mechanical problems or something else. But the KATY unit and train were not seen again in K.P.'s travels.
Anyway, now you have an update on the Golden State Route, the BNSF southern Transcon, and a comparison of routes between Los Angeles and Chicago …
This will conclude the series.
KP, I recall driving from Tucumcari to Liberal KS in summer of 1981 on Highway 54, which parallels the Golden State route most of the way. SP had just taken over the route from RI and was in the midst of rehabbing the track most of the way, new ties and ballast, at least. I recall passing work crews a number of times.
In that vein, I wonder if stopped traffic had to do with MOW activities on the TRANSCON? I know that such all-day activities in the Tehachapi area may leave a number of trains stopped during the day between Mohave and Barstow, waiting for the MOW window to close, as the parade of trains after the MOW folks are done for the day is pretty constant for a few hours. Just some idle speculation.
I just returned from a driving trip from KS to northern AZ and my observations differ somewhat.
I drove west from Wichita along the CRIP Golden State route Friday 10-15. There were several UP trains encountered, mostly double stacks going east and a auto train going west. I saw at least 10 trains between Pratt, KS and Santa Rosa, NM.
On Saturday, 10-16 I drove west from Alb. on I-40 and saw too many to count BNSF trains in each direction. The only stopped trains were encountered as they approached the crew change at Winslow. Then on Friday 10-21 I drove east from Williams, AZ to Alb. with lots of stack trains going east, and some west. There were two or three manifest trains, an empty (I presume) grain train going east and two or three of what appeared to be "Z" trains which I paced at 70 MPH. There was one extremely long (10,000 ft +-) stack train near Grants, NM going east. The only stopped trains again were on both sides of Winslow for crew changes. No bog down like KP experienced was found.
After Three Years of the Colton (CA) Flyover …
… a New Status of the 9th Street Street-Running
Reports were that the 9th Street street-running was no more. On a visit to Colton on Sunday, October 30, 2016, the street-running on 9th Street was found to indeed be over, but the track is still in place and the wigwag on “M” Street is still up too (photo upper left).
On each side of the track is a dashed white line, apparently where the track AND road pavement will be tore out, and repaved over.
In the above photo, the Colton Flyover is seen in the distance.
In a few days a few other photos will be posted about on the street-running status, from the north end (“K” Street) to the south end (“O” Street). The latter of which has temporary derails to ensure no trains do any street running.
The 9th Street Situation
Colton, CA
As the forum knows, the Riverside Industrial Lead is basically gone, except for a few short places, one the BNSF switches the customers, the other a new, less than a mile reroute track was put in.
Status photos from Sunday, October 30, 2016, with the now out of service track still in place:
From the “O” Street area, looking north:
Looking south with temporary derails marking what is now the end of the line coming north (towards the camera) instead of the traditional through route away from the camera.
Interestingly, the above photo’s switch frog is NOT a spring frog, unlike most UP standard low speed turnouts.
To the north a bit … At 9th and “K” Streets, viewed southish with those roadway white markings.
Looking northeast, the Colton Flyover is seen, and the Riverside Industrial Lead east wye track has been lifted off the ballast and is disconnected from any track now at this end.
This will end the series. However, a Second Section follows.
For those interested, the new Pepper Ave. half of a bridge north of the Sunset Route and over the I-10 Freeway is sufficiently strong enough to park vehicles and equipment on it (left).
The bridge on the lower right in that above photo goes over West Colton Yard tracks and the Sunset Route.
Sometimes the signal (lower left, at CP SP535 PEPPER) for yard tracks entranced to Main 2 is off, sometimes it is on. The Rancho Ave. overpass (and CP SP538 RANCHO) is in the distance.
Many Malfunctions Lead to Semi-Hibernation
Photobucket.com has been super chronically malfunctioning of late, so bad that K.P. has decided to go into semi-hibernation for a bit. And the unpredictable and unreliable nature of the TRAINS Magazine forums website adds to that interest in semi-hibernation.
Hibernation sleepy,
K.P.
The non-spring frog KP noted is a guarded frog typical of the type used by SP all over the place on low-speed track at least into the 1970s. The raised lugs on the frog are supposed to do the same job as the usual guard rails on the stock rails, which is why the guard rails are "missing".
Street Running and Its New Alternate
Nothing has taken place so far as to physically removing the street running track from 9th Street in Colton in accord with the Colton Flyover agreement
However, K.P. was able to get closer to the riprap lined rerouted new track to serve rail customers in South Colton.
It is hoped to post a few others photos in the next couple of days, and views right next to the old Riverside Industrial Lead Bridge over the Santa Ana River too.
ccltrains (11-1):
Neither. And, even that is not quite right.
My old railroad books are locked away in the shed, but I can give you a general historic overview in attempting to answer your question(s), but the track down the center of 9th Street in Colton (CA) involved BOTH Southern Pacific and Pacific Electric on the single-track street running.
In 1905 when the Los Angeles & Salt Lake (LA&SL) came through (timetabled east-west, but physically on a slanted north-south axis in Colton), since Santa Fe hadn’t agreed to giving the LA&SL trackage rights between Riverside and Colton, the LA&SL used SP tracks up and down 9th Street instead. The just below photo shows the track those 1905 LA&SL trains used between the Santa Fe track and 9th Street.
Later, but within 1905, Santa Fe agreed to give the LA&SL trackage rights, so LA&SL trains started using the Santa Fe between Riverside and Colton instead.
Interestingly, the Santa Fe was a single-track line north and south through Colton. To the north of the Sunset Route there was a siding type track on the west side, called the West Pass. To the south of the Sunset Route there was the East Pass. South of what is now Valley Blvd. (just north of the Sunset Route) the single-track portion that crossed the Sunset Route had a left hand switch and that offshoot track curved across the Sunset Route and went east a block or two and curved southward, the curve in the last photo above. As time progressed, a second AT&SF Main was put in on both the Sunset Route and Santa Fe, so that left switch mentioned just above remained on AT&SF Main 1 and actually crossed Main 2 on an angled diamond! Odd track arrangement for sure! When K.P. was a teenager in the 1960’s that odd arrangement was gone, but he remembers seeing that track that curved across the Sunset Route blacked out on the CTC board display when he visited the then Colton Tower (at the crossing of the Transcon and the Sunset Route).
Years and years ago 9th Street had SP branch trains, as well as Pacific Electric trolley cars. Those trolley cars went straight north on 9th Street, and crossed yard tracks and the Sunset Route with I think seven diamonds. It was quite an arrangement and likely a noisy one too when north-south movements passed. Of course, the Pacific Electric disappeared, and all the diamonds disappeared too. And, then the Colton Flyover came along and forever blocked the old route. Of course, too, north of the Sunset Route the old trolley line that curved to the diagonal Colton Ave. to the northeast was all built over insuring the route would never reappear again. But, a cement walking trail was built on the old route along Colton Ave. and is present to this day.
To the south, in an ironic twist, the City of Grand Terrace got federal funding to build a new replacement bridge over the old SP-PE, but since the line was being abandoned, a bridge wasn’t needed. I never did hear what the city was going to do with the money that wasn’t needed, except they were trying to get the feds to agree to reapplying the money to a related rail effort. Some money would obviously be needed to demolish the present, narrow bridge and pave over the unbridged path. That still hasn’t been done.
Other replies …
It is desirable to address other issues post-inquired about and replies made to, and they will be addressed in the next couple of days too.
Take call all,
San Gabriel Trench update - photos taken 1 Nov 2016
Starting at the west end of the project, the haul road entrance at the golf course parking lot is closed and the ROW birm rebuilt. The south retaining wall is substantially complete.
From this location east they stopped capping the steel with concrete, who knows why.
On the east side of Alhambra wash, a flimsy looking concrete wall has bridged the gap from the CIDH supported wall to the new bridge. Looks like they will backfill and call it good.
At the site a UP 'guard' was parked and seemed knowledgeable about the construction status. He stated that the old bridge will be demolished prior to excavation and construction of the north wall (where the current track is), this will take all of 2017! Besides entertaining railfan photogs and scanning for 'bad guys', he will continue to feed his friendly squirrel buddies.
Looking east from Ramona Street, we see that both walls are substantially complete.
Per the above UP rep the contractor has a lot of deficiencies to correct. Look carefully and you will see the pole which formerly held the 'trench cam'.
To be continued ....
Further east at Del Mar Ave we see more finished walls.
A bucket crew was removing a temporary cantilever.
At San Gabriel Blvd the expected 'Fancy Ghetto' fencing has been installed, but with an addition.
The colors of those rings make me think that they are recycled decorations from the 1984 Olympics. Yes, I was there!
Looking west from the end of Earle Ave toward Rubio Wash, the graded and compacted 'dirt' looks ballast ready.
It is really difficult to judge the slope without fresh track and a train!
Another view looking east from Earle Ave.
Compared to the west end, those I-beams appear to marked for their specific purpose.
At the east end of the project (Walnut Grove Ave) The Mystery Of The Poles continues; that is not an optical illusion, they are Very close to the future path of the track.
Those cement foundations on the lower right are probably from the former high-wide detector and likely will be removed.
The pole on the left holds PTC antennas and must be new! We'll see if the pole has to moved, in compliance with the Signal Department Full Employment Act.
Some new rails have been dropped on the east side of the street.
Some of those rails will have to be dragged from here all the way to the west end of the new track, near the golf course.
End of update.
The New Arrangement for the old Riverside …
… Industrial Lead … and a Look at a Trail
Part I (of I-II)
On Friday, November 4, 2016 a visit was made to the Santa Ana River area in southern Colton, and from there views could be had unlike any views of the past, one closer-up.
All the riprap protecting the new track that straddles the north side of the river: BNSF’s CP WEST COLTON north (east) cantilever signal is visible.
Back closer to the Grand Terrace area looking north, and K.P. neglected to photograph it, but a pot signal of some sort was lit red could be seen, which doesn’t jive with the new, known mast signals at BNSF’s West Colton. It is hoped that can be investigated soon.
A broad, northward view of the new track:
The no longer needed bridging over the Santa Ana River in southern Colton:
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-II)
The hiking and bicycling trail on the south side of the river:
A BNSF eastbound starts over the B-5 Bridge (upper right) by that hiking and bicycling trail:
The teaser post photo reshown, of a close-up of the riprap:
It is hope from these photos a better idea is conveyed about a reroute in Colton relative to the Colton Flyover agreement.
Memo to MikeF90 (11-5):
Those were great photos of the San Gabriel Trench and the status of the trench effort.
Four noteworthy things …
(1) That west side golf course access: That was too bad that road is now closed. After the track is laid in the trench and trains are running in it, the current west end north side embankment is supposed to be eliminated. Hopefully, that will allow photos from the north side of Mission Blvd., at least for a while.
(2) The vertical trench access laddering seems permanent.
(3) On the east end, the floor is not concrete. In the past the Alameda Corridor East people have used TWO different trench lengths in news and update releases, one a mile further than the other. I have to wonder if that dirt flooring is only temporary, with the floor being lowered later if the trench is extended further east for another mile. As it states now, Walnut Grove Ave. doesn’t need to be lowered four feet, a figure officials used in early news releases and information about the trench.
(4) Those east side stacked up rails were good to see. Conspicuously absent, however, were new ties. I wonder how staging and putting ties down will work …
Anyway, excellent effort, Mike!
Best,
K. P. Harrier(1) That west side golf course access: That was too bad that road is now closed.
K. P. Harrier(3) As it states now, Walnut Grove Ave. doesn’t need to be lowered four feet, a figure officials used in early news releases and information about the trench.
K. P. Harrier(4) Those east side stacked up rails were good to see. Conspicuously absent, however, were new ties. I wonder how staging and putting ties down will work …
If they haul in the ballast by truck, the Walnut Grove neighbors are not going to be happy; that's a lot of darn trucks. Perhaps a MOW expert knows if equipment exists to dump ballast from loaded hopper cars through a long, counterbalanced trough over the side of the trench.
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