Maybe they could use something like this ...
Apparently, there are at least a few methods to ballast new track. About 25 years ago they built the first phase of the Baltimore Central Light Rail Line. This is my recollection of the track-laying and ballasting process:
1. They unrolled black, permeable mats on the ground, that appeared to be treated by some sort of creosote, tar or asphalt, that served as a barrier for the ballast. You, no doubt, have seen that they sometimes build a road-like layer of asphalt for this purpose today. This would, of course, not be necessary in the paved areas of the trench.
2. Then they built the track on the mats. Actually, they may have put some sort of subgrade aggregate on the mats first, but, at this late date, I'm not so sure about that, one way or the other.
3. Then, they ballasted the built-up track directly from ballast hoppers, riding on that track, as follows:
a. From the sides of the car to be unloaded, with short chains, they hung a round timber, about the width of the car, directly in front of the leading wheels of the trailing truck. As they proceeded, the timber slid along the tops of the rails, pressed down by the advancing wheels and held in place laterally by the chains. The timber may have been allowed to rotate (I think) so as not to derail the wheels, but in any case they were only going about 2 or 3 MPH.
b. As he walked, an employee regulated the ballast flow by controlling the hopper gate with a chain. The result was track with a flat layer of ballast, even with the top of the rails, ready to be tamped.
This recollection may not be perfect, but 3.a and 3.b are pretty close. Somewhere in the archives are slides that I took on the occasion as proof.
A few years later, when they did the second phase of construction, they dispensed with the mats and layed ballast on the built-up track with hi-rail dump trucks. Different contract and different contractor, I guess.
Probably not relevant here, since the practice is likely obsolete and primitive, compared to the mechanization, available today. It is interesting, nontheless, what can be accomplished with relatively simple tools.
Pete
@rdamon and @pete-m3, great posts about the possibilities.
Upon further reflection, I now think that shooting ballast down 30 feet into the trench will be both imprecise and generate broken ballast with a lot of dust - probably a non-starter.
On the recent projects around here (Expo and Gold lines, Alhambra sub second main) I haven't noticed much automation. The new trench track is only about 1.6 miles, so I don't think UP will bring in anything fancy. Note that the east end at Walnut Grove Ave has very constrained geometry for putting in a temporary turnout for ballast dumpers. There is probably room at the west end, but they made MOW access more difficult by closing the haul road. More wait and see ....
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Isn't one method of installing new track is to install panel sections down on the ground, bolt them together, then deliver the ballast in bottom dump hoppers and spread it. Next, bring in the tampers and line the track. After a period of operation, replace the stick rail with welded rail. Why would you deposit the ballast first? Or did I miss something?
Track panels are typically used for temporary construction, and the long rail dropped indicates that the usual welded rail setup will be installed. I didn't speculate that ballast would be dropped first, only on the method of placement. When the trench construction is signed off, concrete tie laying should begin.
Update as of Friday, November 11, 2016
The 9th Street Track Removal
Colton, CA
While no trains run down 9th Street in Colton anymore, the track down the street lingers on, and has not been removed yet. And the presence of the wigwag lingers on too.
On Another Matter
MikeF90 found on the Internet a link to Caltrans track diagrams for lines used by commuter trains, and posted about it in another thread. It is called “California Passenger Rail Network Schematics – April 2016.” In reviewing those diagrams, K.P. became fascinated and surprised at the Pomona (CA) Diversion diagram on the Riverside Line of Metrolink and the LA&SL, so he went to that area Saturday to check on the status of changes and upcoming changes. Nothing has physically changed track-wise that the forum doesn’t already know about, but the diagram possibly suggests how things will be in the future if one reads between the lines. In the near future, it is hoped to share some photos of the Pomona onsite findings and what it could mean for the future track layout. At all locations trains were very cooperative, and views of trains on the new “A” were exceptionally easy to come by.
About Replies
Things have been so busy K.P. has hardly had time to blink … The usual backlog of replies hopefully will be addressed reasonably soon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
San Gabriel trench extension update
I had a chance to visit again yesterday and found a few views of possible interest.
This is the previously referred to west end haul road entrance, now closed with the ROW birm built up. A lot of plastic tarps around covering dirt in anticipation of upcoming rain. HAH!
A view of the trench looking east from Alhambra wash. Fencing is pretty much complete here, and crews are installing 'French' type drains along the new ROW south wall.
The south ROW wall is being backfilled, should be done soon. This is where there may (or not) be a future hiking / biking trail. The UP 'guard' stated that Friday December 2 is the projected date of contractor work completion and UP signoff. Subject to change.
This is a better view of the Pole Placement Mystery at the east end of the project. Note the ROW south edge concrete wall and drainage channel directly down the photo line. Now note how far right (north) the poles are. This entrance is heavily used now by contractor pickup trucks; seeing how large ballast trucks or other construction equipment will enter should be entertaining.
End of update.
Official ‘Non-UP’ Charts, CP SPADRA …
… and the Unknown
Pomona, CA
Part “A” (of A-D)
Through another thread at the TRAINS Forums, MikeF90 alerted interested parties of the availability of a Caltrans document that shows track diagrams of tracks used by commuter trains. One diagram surprised K.P., in that it showed the Los Angeles Sub WITH the diagram of CP SPADRA exactly as has previously been theorized in this thread in the past, NOT with a direct crossover route between Mains D, C, and B, but as TWO crossover routes, Mains D and C, and C and B.
.
FUTURE CP AL409 SPADRA
\ \ D --------------------------------- / / C---------------------------------------- / / B----------------------------------------
A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
From that ‘Non-UP’ Chart … those crossovers at the future CP SPADRA are of the 40 M.P.H. type and NOT 50 M.P.H. as previously thought
ALSO, significant on that above diagram is the “D” Track. Only ONE track in the Diversion returns to the Alhambra Sub, as illustrated by the angling upward track on the above diagram’s upper left.
Of course, the official Caltrans diagram (which the above diagram is based on) is already out of date, as shown by the below previously posted August 27, 2016 photos, which have LA&SL Main 2 (background left track) alignment shifting to the “A” Track (the forefront left track) as represented by the bottom dashed line in the above diagram).
Continued in Part B
Part “B” (of A-D)
This posting series now takes a diversion with photos of our “A” Track in the “Diversion” with trains operating on it!
Looking westbound from the Temple Ave. overpass:
A down on westward look from up on the Temple Ave. overpass, with Main A now in service with shiny railheads and Main B out of service with dull railheads (right):
A blown-up photo of the concrete tied switches, which still are not installed:
Continued in Part C
Part “C” (of A-D)
At the Humane Way overpass, an eastward view of a westbound UP on the new, southernmost track, our “A” Track.
That westward Intermodal UP train must have been a really “hot” one. It was relatively (“relatively”) short and was going fast, likely 65 M.P.H., the track speed limit here.
We now go to Hamilton Blvd. closer to downtown Pomona and looking west see the seldom used Pomona siding (SP) with good length, LOADED ballast cars in it!
It that light, will some track soon be laid in the Diversion somewhere?
Continued in Part D
Part “D” (of A-D)
At Hamilton Blvd. looking west:
(Those loaded ballast cars are visible way in the distance.)
Looking east:
There are also little yellow ground flags currently on the northeast side of the tracks.
Now, Back to the Spadra Area
Another westbound telephoto from the Temple Ave. overpass:
In light of recent vehicle underpass constructions along the LA&SL route west of here with four-tracks wide bridging (possibly three-tracks with a narrower paralleling dirt maintenance access roadway), will a third-track someday continue west of CP AL409 SPADRA on the LA&SL, or will it Diversion-shift back to the Alhambra Sub route as two-tracks? At this point it is just unknown. K.P., however, is betting on the three-track LA&SL option with Metrolink two-tracking the San Gabriel Trench and getting commuter train rights through that trench, but two of four tracks Diversion swinging to the SP Alhambra Sub is possible too.
This will conclude the series.
Regarding the pole placement at the trench, they are most likely there temporarily and will get moved as the project gets closer to completion. Where I work there has been a rebuild of the arterial street right in front of our office, including the stoplight of which our driveway is one of the four quadrants, along with widening the right of way to include sidewalks and bike paths. All the intersections on the job need temporary signaling and the poles for that were erected right in the middle of what will be the sidewalks and bike paths. So those poles look a lot like the mystery poles at the San Gabriel Trench. Ultimately, they will be pulled as the project moves to completion.
KP Time for you to start a new thread & photos of the planned Redlands DMU upgrade work by Sandbag.
blue streak 1KP Time for you to start a new thread & photos of the planned Redlands DMU upgrade work by Sandbag.
I'd suggest using the existing "Metrolink – New Happenings in San Bernardino, CA Area" topic, at least until work is noted east of the new SBA 'transit center'.
IMO those ballast cars seen in Pomona may be for some upcoming CP Hamilton rearrangement. Even though they had to push back the track work near Humane Way and diversion, UP may proceed with finalizing the LA sub (track A and B) configuration.
I think K.P. is using this thread for that project:
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/255205.aspx
Within the past few days, I drove on two streets in the San Gabriel area:
The Pomona Diversion and West of was Quiet …
… but there was Drama at LA&SL M.P. 23.38
K.P. and a railbuff colleague took care of a dispatch to near Pomona (CA), and afterwards followed the SP and LA&SL west a bit. The plan was to go no farther than Temple Ave., but ‘the forced’ (yah, right) moved them to go to Fairway Drive in the City of Industry. There, some type of crossing gates problem was observed. It was so series my colleague called the UP Grade Crossing Hotline. Sometime later an eastbound Metrolink approached, slowed down, and stopped. A trainman then alighted, and walked to and halfway across the grade crossing.
All the while the gates were down (for that train), and the commuter train then slowly moved across the street, and after a commuter car or two passed, stopped again. Motorists must have been fuming! Then, the trainman re-boarded, and the Metrolink then continued eastward at speed.
Undoubtedly, the crew advised the DS by radio that there was indeed a crossing gate problem, and what the situation was there.
Continued …
(Continued)
The problem was the north center crossing gate, which whole device was angled from its normal stationary position. It had been hit by something (“something”), but by an unknown what and how seemed mysterious and illogical. It looked like (just “looked like”) a mad spirit from another realm went on a rampage and attacked the crossing gate. Notice the back counterweight was bent up and angled.
That left crossing gate (in the below view) was level when in the down position for the train, but as soon as the train finished crossing and other gate arms rose, the damaged gate arm returned to sagged again.
The other grade crossing gates all went up, but their flashers and bells continued to operate, flashing and dinging.
Traffic was chronically backing up, but NOT as bad as the horror it would have been if it wasn’t the day after Thanksgiving with many people on a four day holiday!
So many people were reluctant to cross the tracks with the flashers flashing, which is understandable since they weren’t railfans or trainmen.
With darkening skies, K.P. and colleague had to get back to base, which they got back to way, way after dark.
This portion of the LA&SL was two-tracked circa 1992-93 before the UP and SP merged.
In a few days
Some odds and ends other findings in the Pomona area will be posted about with photos in a few days. As teasers, the east end of future CP AL514 HAMILTON now has sort of a certain resemblance to AT&SF’s Grand Canyon (AZ) end of the line wye area from over 30 years ago before the tourist operation took over the line. Those ballast cars in the old SP Alhambra Sub Pomona siding posted about recently were gone and nowhere to be found. The Diversion future four-track funnel-way seemed unchanged, with the not too long ago disconnected ‘B’ Track still isolated, unconnected, and not in service. And, strange signage for trains (that K.P. has never seen before) is now on the to-be abandoned portion that still crosses Temple Ave. and sees trains.
Stay tuned,
K.P.
Very interesting. I was on an eastbound Metrolink Riverside Line train on Friday (Nov 25) that left Los Angeles at 1:20pm. We had a "protect crossing" order for Fullerton Road, which is a few miles to the west of Fairway Drive. Ultimately, there was no problem at Fullerton Road and we just crossed the tracks at restricted speed. Seems that wasn't the day for grade crossings in that area.
Though not directly related to the Sunset Route, there's news in Casa Grande, Arizona that may untimately affect rail traffic in the area in a positive way: http://www.pinalcentral.com/casa_grande_dispatch/area_news/m-electric-car-plant-to-be-built-in-casa-grande/article_28525c3c-b66c-11e6-8a02-e37ab366e8c4.html
If the plant site is where I believe it to be, it will be alongside the Sunset and Jimmie Kerr Blvd. just west of I-10. Once I verify, I will update.
John Timm
Another DeLorian? Or Tucker? How much capitol do they have? Is Tesla in the Black yet. As you can tell, I'm sceptical that this become a winner.
Update as of Friday, November 26, 2016
The Diversion
Part I (of I-III)
The first thing one sees as glaring evidence that nothing obvious is happening in the Diversion is what took place on Santa Fe Railway’s branch to the rim of the Grand Canyon years ago. On K.P.’s visit to the rim in 1984, the wye station area trackage was overgrown with trees! Similarly, at the east end of the future large CP AL514 HAMILTON is brush and tree growth.
About the ballast cars that were in the short Alhambra Sub siding, they were nowhere to be found, and none of the Pomona tracks seem to be newly ballasted.
Continued in Part II
Part II (of I-III)
Nothing obvious stood out at Humane Way
Temple Ave. report: Nothing was obvious, and our Main B (second from the right) is still not connected and is devoid of trains still. Looking west from the Temple Ave. overpass:
Looking west:
Continued in Part III
Part III (of I-III)
Along Valley Blvd. east of Temple Ave., the ‘entrance signal’ is still present though its track is unconnected to the main.
The ‘entrance signal’ is maybe a half a mile west of the big curve and its intermediate signals, which right signal has never been upgrade to UP standards with a lower head, for yellow over yellow as an advance aspect for eastbounds going into the Pomona siding.
New signs to trainmen are now present.
The “HTUA” board reportedly stands for High Threat Urban Area. Sources advise certain “Key” trains are limited to 40 M.P.H. while passing the limits of such boards.
This will end the Diversion themed posting. However, other related “Sections” follow.
Second Section
The LA&SL signals in Ontario (CA), at CP C038 ONTARIO, that have been lit for a couple of years now, were dark!
An effort was conceived to document the now dark signals in Ontario at CP AL519 NORTH MONTCLAIR (which is actually in the City of Ontario), by near where the old west switch was for the North Ontario siding in single track days. That effort eventually was successful.
“Eventually” because the old railfan curse was in effect, that when one wants a train to come none come, and when one doesn’t want one to come one or more comes!
Continued in Third Section
Third Section
At Fairway Drive in the City of Industry (CA), where the crossing gate problem recently posted about was at, it appears the upcoming shoofly for the underpass construction there will be put on the south side. Looking westbound:
An eastbound view is less clear, at least presently:
A westward view again, but the north side seems to lack much width for a shoofly:
Putting a track on each side of the grade crossing (north and south) is possible, but doesn’t seem practical, at least for the first phase on construction.
A thing to ponder: The railroad bridging over the underpass will be for FOUR tracks! See below link, “Project Description” that is immediate under the photo.
http://www.theaceproject.org/fairway_dr_gs.php
This will completely end all Parts and Sections of this posting series.
IN you second photo, from Temple Ave., is there some sort of crossing under the bridge? Optical illusion? I see someone crossing in the photo and it looks like a path to the left.
Back when the Capitol Limited still had a dome car, the conductor would close the dome as the train approached the north city limits of Washington, D.C. Apparently, residents near the tracks liked to drop rocks and chunks of concrete on trains passing beneath bridges.
Several of the Amtrak locomotives on the east coast have heavy metal screens or bars over the engineer's windows to ward off items dropped from bridges on to the locomotives.
Dick Watkins
desertdog Back when the Capitol Limited still had a dome car, the conductor would close the dome as the train approached the north city limits of Washington, D.C. Apparently, residents near the tracks liked to drop rocks and chunks of concrete on trains passing beneath bridges. John Timm
I recall riding back when Amtrak had the dome on the Capitol, and being told we needed to vacate the dome because they were concerned with the close clearance to the overhead catanery and what would happen if the dome contacted it. If I recall, we went around the wye and backed into the station. So there was about a mile of being under the wire.
Also when riding the California Zepher back in 68, someone dropped something onto our train around Omaha (I believe) and it cracked a window of the observation car dome. The train had a deadheading obs car as the first car behind the baggage car (in front of the coaches) so we spent some time in it. We had the drawing room and for a family of four, it was perfect. We only had to leave the car to go to the dining car or after the accident, to a dome. We could put the kids to bed and go to the lounge under the dome and not wory about the kids.
I, too, recall being told to vacate the dome on the Capitol--in 1968 and in 1987. As I recall, it was explained the first time, after we left Silver Spring, that it was because of the catenary. The second time, there was no explanation from the crew, so I told a lady nearby that it was because of the wires overhead--and she told me that there were no wires overhead--I do not know if she looked up as we approached the station.
Johnny
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