Has railfanning ever taken you into unsafe neighborhoods?

[shawnee]

Boy, this is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time.  What a sad commentary about the state of urban America today.

POP QUIZ:  Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall (Nov. 1989), which entity had the highest number of homicides annually:  Los Angeles County, Calif. or all of western Europe?  The fact that I'm posing such an outlandish question leads me to believe that you, dear reader, already know the answer. 

America is a violent country.  I'm shocked!!!!

However of course, their are neighborhoods on Paris, Amsterdam, London, even Athens, that I would never venture into either.  And driving past the slums of Kuala Lumpur, don't think I'd had gone railfanning there either.  And I do remember the curfews in Johannesburg when it was officially unsafe to enter parts of town.  I've traveled a bit, and hey, there are sad, lousy, violent places everywhere. 

[Soo 6604]

Back in '95 I flew to Champaign, IL and then drove from there to Monticello to photograph the exquisite Wabash F7A the Monticello Railroad Museum maintained.  While in Champaign I drove to the IC's yard and about half-way there I started figuring it was a bad idea.  I got there, the yard management let me on the grounds with just a suggestion to be careful and stay in-sight of the office, and I got out of the neighborhood OK, but it sure was scarey.  Gangs hangin' on the street corners all over, cars with their windshields busted-out, prostitutes wandering the streets (one came-up to my window and all I wanted to do was get a green signal to get off that intersection) - not nice.  I felt safest in the yard.

That part of Champaign (west of the tracks on the south end of the yard) is still like that. I still want to know about Decator Illinois.

 Paul

[Tharmeni]

My buddy and I were in a bowling alley parking lot in Butler, Indiana at 2 a.m. one time and were awaiting the Detroit Express on the Wabash when a cop car pulled up, the cops grabbed us, cuffed us and took us to jail. 

We didn't realize that a silent burglar alarm had gone off in the bowling alley, but in retrospect, it was a stupid thing for us to be doing. 

The only consolation was that while we were in the back of the cop car, we got to see the train go through on its way from St. Louis to Detroit.  

The cops were actually quite nice once they realized that we were railfans and we bought them breakfast on the way back to our car.

 

 

  

[kevikens]

I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.

[Poppa_Zit]

I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.

You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?

[Soo 6604]

I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.

You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?

Maybe its a passion?

[Poppa_Zit]

I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.

You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?

Maybe its a passion?

Well, he says "I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads".

That's a pretty strong statement, if not overly dramatic because he takes his hobby waaaaay too seriously.

It's not like he's on assignment for National Geographic or anything. If he was, he'd be part of a team with a security detail if the areas he travels are that "bad".

[Anonymous]

Danger is a relative thing.  Fear is in the mind of the beholder.  One person's risk is another person's challenge.  Everybody must make their own value judgments about what is worth the risk.

[kevikens]

For me railfanning is NOT just a hobby. I am in my forty second year of teaching history at the high school level (now THAT'S dangerous) and I know the value of the photographic record as an aid to the understanding of history. I constantly look for photos of places and things now gone especially of industrial America here in the Northeast where much of it is fast disintegrating. Just recently the town of Riverside, NJ demolished an old knitting mill of beautiful red brick, several stories high, adjacent to the old PRR Bordentown Secondary Track. That track was the original Camden and Amboy, circa 1830's. I took some pictures just before it came down with the new RiverLine light rail going past. Perhaps the children of my students will see that picture 50 years from now and wonder about things called "factories". Most of the establishments that I have phographed  (many, many now gone) have been with trains as part of the landscape, I guess as a reminder of how linked industry and the rails once were. I also photograph rail transit within our cities with people and buildings as part of the picture. Again I see myself not taking pictures just as a hobby, though I do enjoy it, but as a person documenting what will be tomorrow"s "good old days". To get those images I must go into some of our more gritty areas. Is there a real danger in doing this ? Yes, probably so but for me it is an acceptable risk. Everytime I look at photos from the Civil War through the Industrial Revolution to the opening of the West to the Great Depression I thank those photographers for doing what they did, probably at some inconvenience or even physical danger. No, fellow photographers, it is not just a hobby and perhaps the pictures that you now take as an avocation will one day prove to be of historical importance to a generation of rail fans yet unborn. Perhaps it has become my passion and if you cannot share in it please allow me the indulgence to make that choice for myself without fear of being put down by folks I thought might have better understood my motives.

[switch7frg]

  Falls Valley RR; Have you or your driver friends ever rolled into South Bronx Produce Row At 2:00 a.m. ??  Some of the Lumpers who would jump on the truck to shut down the reefer  were o.k. , but you never knew for sure. We turned on cablite  after Shirl hung her 357 mag on the mike hook , my glock 40 was sticking out my front zipper pocket . They seemed to change ones intent considerably.~~~  Night Crawlers , Ahhh Life is good. The railsidings were not much better, even with security one didnt' go there at night.

   Be well friend. Respectfully, Cannonball

[Poppa_Zit]

For me railfanning is NOT just a hobby. I am in my forty second year of teaching history at the high school level (now THAT'S dangerous) and I know the value of the photographic record as an aid to the understanding of history. I constantly look for photos of places and things now gone especially of industrial America here in the Northeast where much of it is fast disintegrating. Just recently the town of Riverside, NJ demolished an old knitting mill of beautiful red brick, several stories high, adjacent to the old PRR Bordentown Secondary Track. That track was the original Camden and Amboy, circa 1830's. I took some pictures just before it came down with the new RiverLine light rail going past. Perhaps the children of my students will see that picture 50 years from now and wonder about things called "factories". Most of the establishments that I have phographed  (many, many now gone) have been with trains as part of the landscape, I guess as a reminder of how linked industry and the rails once were. I also photograph rail transit within our cities with people and buildings as part of the picture. Again I see myself not taking pictures just as a hobby, though I do enjoy it, but as a person documenting what will be tomorrow"s "good old days". To get those images I must go into some of our more gritty areas. Is there a real danger in doing this ? Yes, probably so but for me it is an acceptable risk. Everytime I look at photos from the Civil War through the Industrial Revolution to the opening of the West to the Great Depression I thank those photographers for doing what they did, probably at some inconvenience or even physical danger. No, fellow photographers, it is not just a hobby and perhaps the pictures that you now take as an avocation will one day prove to be of historical importance to a generation of rail fans yet unborn. Perhaps it has become my passion and if you cannot share in it please allow me the indulgence to make that choice for myself without fear of being put down by folks I thought might have better understood my motives.

Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me.

[Anonymous]

Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me.

I don't see anything too dramatic about the interpretation.  The person makes a good point - I don't see why you have to belittle his views.

[Convicted One]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!

[Poppa_Zit]

Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me.

I don't see anything too dramatic about the interpretation.  The person makes a good point - I don't see why you have to belittle his views.

When anyone posts volunteers their opinions on this type of public forum, those opinions are open to public scrutiny and commentary. When a person chooses to write:

"I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads." 

I'm not trying to be mean. But it makes me uncomfortable to hear railfans using language that paints themselves as some sort of martyrs, that's all. Sorry, there's nothing heroic about voluntarily taking railroad pictures in run-down neighborhoods.

I have two friends who were embedded media in combat areas during the Iraq War, where there was real physical danger, not someone's perceived danger of a declining industrial area (maybe some people watch too much TV). And when they tell their stories of Iraq, they aren't nearly as dramatic. They just shrug their shoulders and say, "I was doing my job".

[Bruce Kelly]

When I was a skinny, long-haired teenager in the mid-1970s, I'd ride the OCTD bus from El Toro, CA, up to Santa Ana and from there either ride Amtrak up to LAUPT or venture out on foot along the track through places like Anaheim, Orange, etc. There were warring gang elements in the Anaheim area in those days, much worse now, but I never saw real signs of trouble. From LAUPT, I'd wander on foot out to SP's Bull Ring yard (graveyard for all the cool, retired power), the L.A. River, etc. Always some suspicious characters around, but none ever approached or threatened me. My mom would have flipped if she knew where I was going back then. I'd flip now if one of my kids were going there too! However, for all those questionable urban experiences in SoCal and New Jersey, I think one of my biggest moments of concern came at the unlikely location of Falls Cut Tunnel on Sand Patch. My wife and I had driven down the steep road to the tunnel's east end, then walked some distance to our shot. The SUV was still in view. After a while, some local kids showed up and were swarming around my rig, looking into the windows. By the time I ran back there, they were gone. Had there been a door unlocked, or something really valuable left in plain sight, I think the trip might have been ruined.

[Erie Lackawanna]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!

 

Seriously????? Wow.

Many years ago some friends and I got stuck in the snow in a Conrail Yard (frankly, trespassing, but in no way in an unsafe location - don't flame me please, it was 30 years ago and I don't do it anymore).  Conrail truck came up on us.  Thought for sure we were going to be cited or worse.  Instead hejust came up to our car's bumper and shoved hard, pushing us out of the ditch.

[Anonymous]

I might deliver sticks of butter into Hunts Point one night and come out with several cases of damaged goods. The boxes would be damaged and not acceptable by the market so they get hauled back home to be resold.

Well... that butter was more valuable than dollars to the hungry workers along downtown and Jersey in some places.. for trade.. I never had to have any butter left when I did get back to the home yard that week.

The boss would complain about the losses in the few dozens of dollars but I explain to him that he does not have to recover a stripped truck, trailer and possible a dead driver or worse.

It takes money or valuable useful things to grease the skids and make the world go around in bad areas. I think sometimes of many people who live thier lives in safety and bliss without fear of knife or hook whatsoever when they sit down to eat that meal.

[switch7frg]

  Falls Valley RR ; how right you are bout Hunts point. Be it railfanning or doing your job  its' called survival .  As Sinatra used to say , " thats life" .

  Best to you and Big Red  Respectfully , Cannonball

[switch7frg]

 Falls Valley RR;  A big OOPS on the color of your rig.  I apologize for the error . ~~~~ Cannonball

[Convicted One]

Seriously????? Wow.

 

 

That's what I thought as well..."wow"..lol.  The point deserving emphasis being, is that I didn't feel imperiled until the guy in the white blazer started throwing his weight around.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to be mean. But it makes me uncomfortable to hear railfans using language that paints themselves as some sort of martyrs, that's all. Sorry, there's nothing heroic about voluntarily taking railroad pictures in run-down neighborhoods.

I saw nothing in that person's post that indicated he was some kind of martyr nor that he was portraying himself as heroic.  You are exaggerating.  Of course, that's my opinion, since as you like to point-out, the public forum's postings are for everyone's scrutiny.

[rrnut282]

My buddy and I were in a bowling alley parking lot in Butler, Indiana at 2 a.m. one time and were awaiting the Detroit Express on the Wabash when a cop car pulled up, the cops grabbed us, cuffed us and took us to jail. 

We didn't realize that a silent burglar alarm had gone off in the bowling alley, but in retrospect, it was a stupid thing for us to be doing. 

The only consolation was that while we were in the back of the cop car, we got to see the train go through on its way from St. Louis to Detroit.  

The cops were actually quite nice once they realized that we were railfans and we bought them breakfast on the way back to our car.

There is an ugly fence there now to discourage the curious photographers.

I'm surprised there was more than one officer on-duty at night in Butler.

[NJWATERGUY]

Yeah, Many years ago I wanted to wander in to see pavonia yard in camden new jersey. Had a hard time finding a place to park and when I did it was a bad neighborhood. My car was'nt much but I still needed it to get home. There was a local eyeing it up as soon as I parked and he told me it was a bad spot. I took a chance and gave the guy 10 bucks. I said if its Ok when I get back I'll give you another 10. After taking some pics for awhile I came back, My car was fine my guard got paid, and I got the hell out of there.

[eolafan]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!

If you ever see that jerk again in a similar fix, just give him a big "Cheshire cat" grin and keep on driving.  Hopefully THEN he will learn his lesson...EVERY DOG HAS HIS/HER DAY...WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

[solzrules]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!

If you ever see that jerk again in a similar fix, just give him a big "Cheshire cat" grin and keep on driving.  Hopefully THEN he will learn his lesson...EVERY DOG HAS HIS/HER DAY...WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.

Yeah no kidding. 

Maybe you could give him a little 'love' tap at about 50 MPH and make sure that he needs one of those NS sd70's to pull him out.  Sure you'd wreck the car, but your point would be made, right?

All in all I would really have to try hard not to laugh at the guy if I would have been in your shoes. 

[Convicted One]

What ticks me off about it all, is that I lost my "one time immunity" over the ordeal.

Now that I am officially in their system, any next time becomes my second offense...and I will be open to prosecution.

I had great comfort in knowing that I still had a "freebie". to protect me..which  unfortunately is long gone now

[zardoz]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!

That is so amazing fupped duck that it gives me a headache trying to think down to the mentality of someone as stupid and moronic as that imbicile!! 

[RudyRockvilleMD]

This is a good example of the saying, "no good dead ever goes unpunished."

[trans logis]

Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\

He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.

I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE! 

I had the opposite happen to me once.

I was young and stupid and driving my beater '76 toyota through deep snow drifts at Blossburg, MT on MRL's Mullan Pass line.  It was mid-winter, cold, and windy.  An MRL company truck appeared.  Turned out to be a MOW crew that had been working inside Mullan Tunnel.  They asked me if I had 4-wheel drive and seemed concerned about my well-being.  I said "no, I don't have 4WD" and thanked them.  Also, so they wouldn't worry, I said I was on my way out.

 

 

[Kevin C. Smith]

This is a good example of the saying, "no good dead ever goes unpunished."

Oops-a slight typo...but, it's probably true this way, too.

Not trying to pick on you RRMD-it's just reassuring to find typos besides mine on the forums.