Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? Chico
No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Chico
OK, the flesh eating trolls is a good descriprion of some meth addicts I've come across, and yes, they DO live under bridges.
Pirates? no, how about gangbangers with almost every square inch of skin covered in prison tats, including one across the forehead sayin "Lil' Puppet".
Insect headed aliens, not quite, but biker Mongrols who had more than their share of insect infestation in thier body hair.
Democrats, nah, there OK, its the Scientologist ya gotta watch for, if yer not carefull and turn your back on them they beat you unconscience with copies of Dianetics, you wake up on a ship out in the desert where they try to get you to give them all your money or they'll kill you, and theres something about a spaceship too.
Mormons, watch out for them too, dont let the ties and white shirts fool you, turn your back and they'll knock you unconscience with their prayer books, tie you to thier bicycles and when you wake up you find your married to 3 slim blonde sisters that are 18, 19 and 20 and then...uh, wait a minute...this is a bad thing.....?
Have fun with your trains
Bradenton,FL(Tropicana Juice factory) was one bad place I have been too. I felt really scared getting out for gas. Atlanta, Toledo, Jacksonville(inner-city Jacksonville near CSX's yard), and Wilson(NC) are the places that have been in unsafe neighborhoods.
Kevin
There has been some very good advice given here, and I can only add a few things. First of all, I am a city boy born and bred and no one is going to keep me out of my home town. That includes East St. Louis. When I was on the Police I was armed, but for the next 35 years I was an unarmed legal investigator.
Wherever I went, I acted like I owned the place. That includes the housing projects. I didn't show any fear because I didn't have any. And I never got into a situation I couldn't get out of. All the bogeymen, crazed crackheads, gang members and the like certainly exist, but not in any large numbers. And I live in the city that fights it out every year with Detroit to be named crime capitol of the country.
I'm old now, but I'll still go anywhere. I just don't railfan much anymore.
Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Let's just say I would don an eye patch and and hang with the pirate before I would get too close to the guy drinking out of the brown paper bag that followed me every time I crossed the street to stake out a new photo location. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
Another factor to consider is change. A neighborhood that might have been safe years ago may have since gone downhill. The conventional wisdom seems to be if a neighborhood doesn't look safe it probably isn't, but as others have pointed out some neighborhoods that don't look safe might still be safe, at least early in the day.
I had an experience in Michigan City several years ago when I was waiting to videotape the NICTD interurbans running down 10th Street in the west end of the city between 10:30 and 11:00 AM on a Sunday morning. I hadn't railfanned in Michigan City in 30 years, and the neighborhood in the west end of the city still looked safe. A teen-age kid who had an attitude wandered by, and he asked me what I was doing. I answered him in a civil manner, but when he started to give me a lot of guff I told him to get lost. My only weapon was a tripod with my camcorder on top of it, but when I reached for my cell phone which was under my jacket he left. I left after after I videotaped both the estbound and the westbound trains, but I still don't know if that part of Michigan City was safe or unsafe.
Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
surely you meant "neoconservatives"
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"
Surely not. And don't call me Shirley
RudyRockvilleMD wrote: Another factor to consider is change. A neighborhood that might have been safe years ago may have since gone downhill. The conventional wisdom seems to be if a neighborhood doesn't look safe it probably isn't, but as others have pointed out some neighborhoods that don't look safe might still be safe, at least early in the day.I had an experience in Michigan City several years ago when I was waiting to videotape the NICTD interurbans running down 10th Street in the west end of the city between 10:30 and 11:00 AM on a Sunday morning. I hadn't railfanned in Michigan City in 30 years, and the neighborhood in the west end of the city still looked safe. A teen-age kid who had an attitude wandered by, and he asked me what I was doing. I answered him in a civil manner, but when he started to give me a lot of guff I told him to get lost. My only weapon was a tripod with my camcorder on top of it, but when I reached for my cell phone which was under my jacket he left. I left after after I videotaped both the estbound and the westbound trains, but I still don't know if that part of Michigan City was safe or unsafe.
It has gotten pretty rough the last ten to fifteen years or so.
An "expensive model collector"
doghouse wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"Surely not. And don't call me Shirley
i just hate when people bring politics into this. i dont affiliate myself with either party, but i'm friends with lots of democrats and take offense when people bash that party. i'm also friends with republicans.
i just feel we dont need to bring politics into this. that's why it's forbidden on most forums. it causes flame wars, trouble, all kinds of stuff
back on topic: Altoona isn't too bad. i've biked there at 2:00 AM sometimes. no problems.
Lord Atmo wrote: doghouse wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"Surely not. And don't call me Shirley i just hate when people bring politics into this. i dont affiliate myself with either party, but i'm friends with lots of democrats and take offense when people bash that party. i'm also friends with republicans.i just feel we dont need to bring politics into this. that's why it's forbidden on most forums. it causes flame wars, trouble, all kinds of stuff back on topic: Altoona isn't too bad. i've biked there at 2:00 AM sometimes. no problems.
Its the season Atmo,
This last month I've been assaulted by supporters of both parties, and every candidate including a few I've never even heard of, each trying to rope tie and brand me to their candidate!
Give it time, only 10 months till.....uhh...Oh god its going to be a long summer isnt it?
I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me.
Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting.
Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front.
The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!
Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be!
South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things.
Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.
John
jcitron wrote: I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me. Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting. Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front. The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be! South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things. Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.John
My avitar is my great-grandfather, William S Knox, the US Congress Representative from Lawrence and Andover in the early 1900s. I've never railfanned that area, although I've thought about it with all the great old mills along the river.
Erie Lackawanna wrote: jcitron wrote: I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me. Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting. Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front. The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be! South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things. Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.John My avitar is my great-grandfather, William S Knox, the US Congress Representative from Lawrence and Andover in the early 1900s. I've never railfanned that area, although I've thought about it with all the great old mills along the river.
That's really cool! :)
The area doesn't have much in the way of industrial tracks anymore. The only thing left is the South Lawrence industrial branch, which used to be the Lawrence and Lowell. The M&L was embargoed then closed in 2001. The yard at Andover Street is still pretty active though, and has become the home to a few more locals since PAR closed the yards in Somerville, Haverhill, and other places and consolidated the locals to Lawrence. You have to be careful though around the yard now. The PAR police aren't nice and will harass railfans. This wasn't the case with the old B&M guys, but ever since Guilford took over, things are different. This was even before 9/11. They now use that as an excuse to pull the strings and push the pressure on the railfans.
At one point this area must've been quite the place to watch the action. I've seen some late 19th century and early 20th century photos, including aerial shots, and there was a lot more track then not including the trolley lines that went up and down Broadway and Merrimack, and Essex Street.
On top of that, there were quite a few mills on both canals as well as three branches - the Lawrence and Lowell, Essex Railroad (Danvers Branch via North Andover), and the Manchester and Lawrence. The old station, which was on the M&L was torn down in the 1930's to make way for the old post office which was then torn down in the 1960s for "progress". A park and a really gross McDonalds occupy the place of the station.
The "new station" on the mainline, built in the 1930's is now closed, and a new MBTA/Am-shack parking garage has been built closer to 495. The idiot designers took the double-track there and singled it through the station so now there's a squeeze-point on the otherwise double-track line from Frye to Plaistow, NH.
We all can agree that most city in the U.S. and Canada can be very dangerous at certain times of the day. but after the expirence i had at Warwick Yard, Clinton Oh.(on CSX's New Castle Sub.) a few years ago, I will railfan anywhere. but I will not railfan there anymore.
Heres what happened:
I park my truck at the tower in downtown Warwick (clinton) got my camera out and processed down the tracks into the yard and waited for D763 & Z610 to get there. While waiting I saw 3 trains 2 east and 1 west. I walked down to where the old coal tipple stood to see if there was another westbound lined up, needless to say I didn't make it that far, before I was getting shot at by some people up on the hill. I got pined down behide a Coke Express car that had been in a derailment somewhere, as soon as i got a chance to go i did, and ended up getting chased down the track almost back to my truck. I waited there for Z610 to show and told them what had happened down in the yard and i let them deal with it. I always use to worry about thing like that when i would go up to Cleveland or Toledo or Pittsburgh, but I never expected it out in the country and so close to home.
I didnt bring up the gunplay as I didnt think it mattered. Ive heard and seen so much gunplay (Western term... bear with me; very serious stuff..) over the years as the sight or use of these things dont even bother me anymore. Under fire or not... but it does tend to focus you on getting clear of the problem.
Here in Little Rock, people get shot often at night. There isnt so much by day so. We are a carry state and a deadly force home defense state as well. That tends to cut down on the problem.
However what I do find disturbing is minor children having access to and use of firearms up to .30 caliber in bad neighborhoods.
Falls Valley RR wrote: I didnt bring up the gunplay as I didnt think it mattered. Ive heard and seen so much gunplay (Western term... bear with me; very serious stuff..) over the years as the sight or use of these things dont even bother me anymore. Under fire or not... but it does tend to focus you on getting clear of the problem.Here in Little Rock, people get shot often at night. There isnt so much by day so. We are a carry state and a deadly force home defense state as well. That tends to cut down on the problem.However what I do find disturbing is minor children having access to and use of firearms up to .30 caliber in bad neighborhoods.
Same here in Georgia. A lot of home invaders have been killed around Atlanta lately. I used to travel through Underground Atlanta a good bit. You could see people sleeping and tons of clothes and stolen parking meters scattered about. Never like having to stop at 10th street. I have never heard of anyone in that area being jumped, but I do know trainmen that have been shot at in the cab. That glass isn't bullet proof either, it may stop a 22. but anything bigger is comming in. Trouble can be anywhere. The unsuspecting looking guy down the street in a nice area of the suburbs could be a mass murderer. You hear it on the news all the time whenever someone is killed in a nice neighborhood, ''I never thought something like this could happen here this is a nice neighborhood''. I hate it when they say that, evil lurks everywhere, not just in the ''hood''.
I think we had about 10 or so home invasions in nicer neighborhoods outside of the city itself last 6 months or so. 9 were killed during the attempt to gain entry. I think one died later.
So invaders zero.
Homeowners 10.
And they were not prosecuted either.
Back in '95 I flew to Champaign, IL and then drove from there to Monticello to photograph the exquisite Wabash F7A the Monticello Railroad Museum maintained. While in Champaign I drove to the IC's yard and about half-way there I started figuring it was a bad idea. I got there, the yard management let me on the grounds with just a suggestion to be careful and stay in-sight of the office, and I got out of the neighborhood OK, but it sure was scarey. Gangs hangin' on the street corners all over, cars with their windshields busted-out, prostitutes wandering the streets (one came-up to my window and all I wanted to do was get a green signal to get off that intersection) - not nice. I felt safest in the yard.
Boy, this is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time. What a sad commentary about the state of urban America today.
POP QUIZ: Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall (Nov. 1989), which entity had the highest number of homicides annually: Los Angeles County, Calif. or all of western Europe? The fact that I'm posing such an outlandish question leads me to believe that you, dear reader, already know the answer.
Bob-Fryml wrote: Boy, this is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time. What a sad commentary about the state of urban America today.POP QUIZ: Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall (Nov. 1989), which entity had the highest number of homicides annually: Los Angeles County, Calif. or all of western Europe? The fact that I'm posing such an outlandish question leads me to believe that you, dear reader, already know the answer.
And packing heat is at minimum strongly frowned upon in most of Europe.
I've never been harassed by anyone so far while railfanning. Just a few months ago I had set up shop on top of a tunnel entrance not far from where I live. It was in the middle of a forested area, so I had to do a little climbing and such to get to the entrance. After about 30 minutes, a track gang showed up and eyeballed me.
Although they could have called the police (people standing a stone's throw away from the tracks (especially in an elevated position) have been known to cause major trauma to engineers by throwing anything from rocks to treetrunks against the cab windows), all they wanted to know was what the **** I was doing there on a cold day and how I managed to get there. After explaining and showing them, I offered them a hot beverage to warm up a little and spend a good 15 minutes talking to them, before they left to continue to get the work done. That was the only time I've ever been "bothered" railfanning.
Now I'm reading these comments and I can't help to ask myself: are these stories the proverbial exceptions to the rule, or do you really need to almost plan a military campaign just to shoot a few trains in many parts of many cities in the US? I mean, there are areas in the major EU cities (heck, even minor ones) I wouldn't want to get into at night. But I've yet to come across a neighboorhood I don't feel safe in during the daytime. Could someone put this into perspective (for the EU guy that never visited a US city other then Denver, Sacremento and Gillette)
The "Day People" emigrate into the city for work or whatever at sunrise.
The "Day People" have a exodus out of the city at sunset.
Then the Night People come out. Usually those who live inside a US City at night has to live with alot of problems. Some of us choose to live in tiny towns or way out in the country where there is nothing but birds and small animals.
A city is exciting and dangerous at the same time. They go 24/7.
They used to broadcast on the radio every morning a roll call of those shot, stabbed or suffering from crime in some cities. 100? 200? people in a city of 10 million would be on this roll call list.
Out west all I heard on the radio is Commodity Pricing, Beef Prices and other minutae of farm living early in the morning.
That is the difference between a good area and a bad one.
sgtbean1 wrote: I've never been harassed by anyone so far while railfanning. Just a few months ago I had set up shop on top of a tunnel entrance not far from where I live. It was in the middle of a forested area, so I had to do a little climbing and such to get to the entrance. After about 30 minutes, a track gang showed up and eyeballed me. Although they could have called the police (people standing a stone's throw away from the tracks (especially in an elevated position) have been known to cause major trauma to engineers by throwing anything from rocks to treetrunks against the cab windows), all they wanted to know was what the **** I was doing there on a cold day and how I managed to get there. After explaining and showing them, I offered them a hot beverage to warm up a little and spend a good 15 minutes talking to them, before they left to continue to get the work done. That was the only time I've ever been "bothered" railfanning.Now I'm reading these comments and I can't help to ask myself: are these stories the proverbial exceptions to the rule, or do you really need to almost plan a military campaign just to shoot a few trains in many parts of many cities in the US? I mean, there are areas in the major EU cities (heck, even minor ones) I wouldn't want to get into at night. But I've yet to come across a neighboorhood I don't feel safe in during the daytime. Could someone put this into perspective (for the EU guy that never visited a US city other then Denver, Sacremento and Gillette)
As I stated in my first post - I do a lot of urban railfanning here in LA and I have never been bothered once... scared a couple times, sure, but actually bothered no. Only time I was ever in real jeopardy was in a very safe suburban town.
I think you need to just be alert in certain places and at certain times. (Just remembered another time, when railfanning on mass transit in Philly in the 1980s, a guy sitting next to me, couple years younger than me, kept looking at my camera and saying "That's a nice Canon Camera... I sure could use one of those..." The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
Erie Lackawanna wrote: The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
Unless he attempts a "snatch and run" at the next station, pays to be carefull.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.