No offense here, we are a deadly force state and can shoot a home invader dead. (And several has already happened this year) without fear of prosecution.
I have been lucky shooting trains with a camera, and learned not to have another human within sight when shooting them. Makes it much easier for the few minutes as they go by. Now once in a while you have a small event or trainshow and it is much easier when a number of railfans or modelers get together in a group with some numbers.
Hi!
Growing up in Chicago (nw side) in the '50s/'60s, I was quite aware that hanging around the RR tracks was putting yourself in all kinds of danger. I was fortunate that nothing ever happened to me, but that was pure luck.
Living in the Great State of Texas the last 30 years, railfanning has been a much safer experience. However, that again has been pure luck. However, as my other hobby is handguns, I was one of the first to get a Texas concealed handgun license many years ago. I certainly am not a Rambo or John Wayne, but I am never "naked" when I explore potentially dangerous RR sites.
Oh, many of the other 40 states that have concealed carry permits have a reciprocity agreement with Texas. However, my childhood home city/state is not one of them, so I rarely go off the beaten path when I am up there visiting/railfanning.
I realize the above stuff is sensitive to a lot of folks, so if it offends you, please just skip off to the next posting...............
Enjoy,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
TimChgo9 wrote: I always make sure I have a cell phone with me wheneve I am out fanning, and when I may be in a place that is questionable, I make sure that I am not in a dead end street, or an area that minimizes my chances for a quick escape.....
I always make sure I have a cell phone with me wheneve I am out fanning, and when I may be in a place that is questionable, I make sure that I am not in a dead end street, or an area that minimizes my chances for a quick escape.....
That's pretty smart. Definitely don't want to paint yourself into a corner.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
I stay in established "railfan" places if you will. I would not deliberately go into an unsafe neighborhood to shoot pictures. Too many risks, in my opinion, just for a bunch of pictures.
However, I have been in some nice neighborhoods where I have had problems with people, so just because an area is "safe", which in my opinion is a relative term anyway, doesn't mean there isn't some cretin out there looking for trouble. Admittedly in a "Bad" neighborhood the chances of getting accosted are higher, in some "nice" neighborhoods, all it takes is one ne'er do well, or a group of them to come along, and decide that that some guy taking pictures is a 'target" either for violence, or mischief.
In my previouse life as a newspaper reporter, I covered two somewhat unsafe towns (Selden and Centereach, NY). Whenever I had to go there to take a picture or cover a story, I always used my cheap point-and-shoot camera and was always well aware of my surroundings.
As for railfaning, I try to saty out of bad areas all together. Also I try to stick to established railfan spots. I would rather drive the two hours down to Folkston, GA even thought the CSX mainline passes right through Hardeeville, SC, which is the next town over. Are there safe areas to watch trains in Beaufort or Savannah? I live about 20 minutes from each of them.
One piece of advice I will offer to those railfaning in scetchy areas is to shoot with a disposable camera. They're inexpensive, they take decent pictures and they're not tempting to thieves as they have no resale value.
Also, don't attract attention to yourself. Stay low-key and blend in.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
Has railfanning ever taken me into unsafe neighborhoods? Hmm... Not sure, but, I know that I've taken myself railfanning in plenty of unsafe neighborhoods before. In fact, In many of them, the folks didn't seem very neighborly at all. I guess you can say that I've railfanned in unsafe 'hoods' many times.
I believe my secret to sucess in not being mugged or beat up or shot at by the apparent criminal element that I've seen and came across is this:
1st, I don't go at night and only when I know that there's action on the line. When I get there I always let the train crew that I'm there by a wave or some other friendly gesture. This is very important. This eases the train crew's nerves and let's them know that I'm not there to interfere with their work and also lends the appearance that I'm there with them. Usually the crew stops when they pass me. That's when I let them know that I'm just a railfan trying to stay safe. So far, this has gotten me nothing but respect.
2nd, I wear railroad compliant clothing so that I appear "official" to the average person. This includes jeans, boots, safety glasses and a high visibility orange safety vest. Not a cheap one either, like the kind you get at Home Depot, a real class-III D.O.T. safety vest with plenty of reflective striping. I don't wear a hard hat, but the ballcap I wear is usually of a railroad, but a different road that where I'm visiting. I think that wearing a hard hat would be over-the-top (no pun intended) and tantamount to impersonating a railroad employee which would certainly be a bad thing if a gum-shoe were to see me. The rest of the garb is just being safe. I would recommend safety attire to anyone railfanning anywhere, anyway. Afterall, safety first. Right?
3rd, I carry a scanner. This really wraps up the whole deal. One look at me and it's...He must be with the railroad, he's got a radio. I'll leave him alone otherwise he'll have the cops here real fast.
4th, I take LOTS OF PICTURES. I stay busy photographing and give the appearance that I have a job to do. Whenever I'm asked (which is very infrequent) by some passer-by what I'm taking pictures of, I tell them that I'm monitoring graffiti for the railroad. That one works really good.
Railfanning in bad areas can be fun, rewarding and safe if it's done correctly. And to me, at least, that means not looking like I don't belong there.
RudyRockvilleMD wrote:This is a good example of the saying, "no good dead ever goes unpunished."
Oops-a slight typo...but, it's probably true this way, too.
Not trying to pick on you RRMD-it's just reassuring to find typos besides mine on the forums.
Convicted One wrote:Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!
Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\
He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.
I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!
I had the opposite happen to me once.
I was young and stupid and driving my beater '76 toyota through deep snow drifts at Blossburg, MT on MRL's Mullan Pass line. It was mid-winter, cold, and windy. An MRL company truck appeared. Turned out to be a MOW crew that had been working inside Mullan Tunnel. They asked me if I had 4-wheel drive and seemed concerned about my well-being. I said "no, I don't have 4WD" and thanked them. Also, so they wouldn't worry, I said I was on my way out.
Convicted One wrote: Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE!
That is so amazing fupped duck that it gives me a headache trying to think down to the mentality of someone as stupid and moronic as that imbicile!!
What ticks me off about it all, is that I lost my "one time immunity" over the ordeal.
Now that I am officially in their system, any next time becomes my second offense...and I will be open to prosecution.
I had great comfort in knowing that I still had a "freebie". to protect me..which unfortunately is long gone now
eolafan wrote: Convicted One wrote: Couple weeks ago I was out railfanning after a significant snow storm, and came upon one of the Norfolk Southern dicks, stranded in his blazer off the side of the service road.\He had dug in to the point of bottoming out. I remembered some 2X10's and old fork lift pallets about a quarter mile back down the siding, so I went and got them, helped the guy get his truck unstuck.....and he wanted to cite me for trespassing.I had never been in the system before, so I got off with a warning. BUT TALK ABOUT GRATITUDE! If you ever see that jerk again in a similar fix, just give him a big "Cheshire cat" grin and keep on driving. Hopefully THEN he will learn his lesson...EVERY DOG HAS HIS/HER DAY...WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
If you ever see that jerk again in a similar fix, just give him a big "Cheshire cat" grin and keep on driving. Hopefully THEN he will learn his lesson...EVERY DOG HAS HIS/HER DAY...WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND.
Yeah no kidding.
Maybe you could give him a little 'love' tap at about 50 MPH and make sure that he needs one of those NS sd70's to pull him out. Sure you'd wreck the car, but your point would be made, right?
All in all I would really have to try hard not to laugh at the guy if I would have been in your shoes.
Tharmeni wrote: My buddy and I were in a bowling alley parking lot in Butler, Indiana at 2 a.m. one time and were awaiting the Detroit Express on the Wabash when a cop car pulled up, the cops grabbed us, cuffed us and took us to jail. We didn't realize that a silent burglar alarm had gone off in the bowling alley, but in retrospect, it was a stupid thing for us to be doing. The only consolation was that while we were in the back of the cop car, we got to see the train go through on its way from St. Louis to Detroit. The cops were actually quite nice once they realized that we were railfans and we bought them breakfast on the way back to our car.
My buddy and I were in a bowling alley parking lot in Butler, Indiana at 2 a.m. one time and were awaiting the Detroit Express on the Wabash when a cop car pulled up, the cops grabbed us, cuffed us and took us to jail.
We didn't realize that a silent burglar alarm had gone off in the bowling alley, but in retrospect, it was a stupid thing for us to be doing.
The only consolation was that while we were in the back of the cop car, we got to see the train go through on its way from St. Louis to Detroit.
The cops were actually quite nice once they realized that we were railfans and we bought them breakfast on the way back to our car.
There is an ugly fence there now to discourage the curious photographers.
I'm surprised there was more than one officer on-duty at night in Butler.
Poppa_Zit wrote: I'm not trying to be mean. But it makes me uncomfortable to hear railfans using language that paints themselves as some sort of martyrs, that's all. Sorry, there's nothing heroic about voluntarily taking railroad pictures in run-down neighborhoods.
I'm not trying to be mean. But it makes me uncomfortable to hear railfans using language that paints themselves as some sort of martyrs, that's all. Sorry, there's nothing heroic about voluntarily taking railroad pictures in run-down neighborhoods.
I saw nothing in that person's post that indicated he was some kind of martyr nor that he was portraying himself as heroic. You are exaggerating. Of course, that's my opinion, since as you like to point-out, the public forum's postings are for everyone's scrutiny.
Erie Lackawanna wrote:Seriously????? Wow.
That's what I thought as well..."wow"..lol. The point deserving emphasis being, is that I didn't feel imperiled until the guy in the white blazer started throwing his weight around.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
Falls Valley RR ; how right you are bout Hunts point. Be it railfanning or doing your job its' called survival . As Sinatra used to say , " thats life" .
Best to you and Big Red Respectfully , Cannonball
I might deliver sticks of butter into Hunts Point one night and come out with several cases of damaged goods. The boxes would be damaged and not acceptable by the market so they get hauled back home to be resold.
Well... that butter was more valuable than dollars to the hungry workers along downtown and Jersey in some places.. for trade.. I never had to have any butter left when I did get back to the home yard that week.
The boss would complain about the losses in the few dozens of dollars but I explain to him that he does not have to recover a stripped truck, trailer and possible a dead driver or worse.
It takes money or valuable useful things to grease the skids and make the world go around in bad areas. I think sometimes of many people who live thier lives in safety and bliss without fear of knife or hook whatsoever when they sit down to eat that meal.
Seriously????? Wow.
Many years ago some friends and I got stuck in the snow in a Conrail Yard (frankly, trespassing, but in no way in an unsafe location - don't flame me please, it was 30 years ago and I don't do it anymore). Conrail truck came up on us. Thought for sure we were going to be cited or worse. Instead hejust came up to our car's bumper and shoved hard, pushing us out of the ditch.
WIAR wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me. I don't see anything too dramatic about the interpretation. The person makes a good point - I don't see why you have to belittle his views.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me.
Nothing personal, but this interpretation of taking railroad pictures in declining neighborhoods is still a bit too dramatic for me.
When anyone posts volunteers their opinions on this type of public forum, those opinions are open to public scrutiny and commentary. When a person chooses to write:
"I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads."
I have two friends who were embedded media in combat areas during the Iraq War, where there was real physical danger, not someone's perceived danger of a declining industrial area (maybe some people watch too much TV). And when they tell their stories of Iraq, they aren't nearly as dramatic. They just shrug their shoulders and say, "I was doing my job".
kevikens wrote:For me railfanning is NOT just a hobby. I am in my forty second year of teaching history at the high school level (now THAT'S dangerous) and I know the value of the photographic record as an aid to the understanding of history. I constantly look for photos of places and things now gone especially of industrial America here in the Northeast where much of it is fast disintegrating. Just recently the town of Riverside, NJ demolished an old knitting mill of beautiful red brick, several stories high, adjacent to the old PRR Bordentown Secondary Track. That track was the original Camden and Amboy, circa 1830's. I took some pictures just before it came down with the new RiverLine light rail going past. Perhaps the children of my students will see that picture 50 years from now and wonder about things called "factories". Most of the establishments that I have phographed (many, many now gone) have been with trains as part of the landscape, I guess as a reminder of how linked industry and the rails once were. I also photograph rail transit within our cities with people and buildings as part of the picture. Again I see myself not taking pictures just as a hobby, though I do enjoy it, but as a person documenting what will be tomorrow"s "good old days". To get those images I must go into some of our more gritty areas. Is there a real danger in doing this ? Yes, probably so but for me it is an acceptable risk. Everytime I look at photos from the Civil War through the Industrial Revolution to the opening of the West to the Great Depression I thank those photographers for doing what they did, probably at some inconvenience or even physical danger. No, fellow photographers, it is not just a hobby and perhaps the pictures that you now take as an avocation will one day prove to be of historical importance to a generation of rail fans yet unborn. Perhaps it has become my passion and if you cannot share in it please allow me the indulgence to make that choice for myself without fear of being put down by folks I thought might have better understood my motives.
Falls Valley RR; Have you or your driver friends ever rolled into South Bronx Produce Row At 2:00 a.m. ?? Some of the Lumpers who would jump on the truck to shut down the reefer were o.k. , but you never knew for sure. We turned on cablite after Shirl hung her 357 mag on the mike hook , my glock 40 was sticking out my front zipper pocket . They seemed to change ones intent considerably.~~~ Night Crawlers , Ahhh Life is good. The railsidings were not much better, even with security one didnt' go there at night.
Be well friend. Respectfully, Cannonball
Soo 6604 wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: kevikens wrote:I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?Maybe its a passion?
Poppa_Zit wrote: kevikens wrote:I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?
kevikens wrote:I was born and raised in Philadelphia some sixty years ago. Philly was and still is a great railroad city ( PRR, Reading, B&O, later Conrail, CSX, NS, CP, SEPTA, and rail transit trolleys) and unfortunately also a pretty dangerous one, too. Rght across the Delaware River is Camden, NJ the most dangerous city in America, but also a great railroad town. After viewing many, many photos taken by rail buffs I came to the conclusion that most photos are taken at the same spots of the same trains. Many of the most interesting places were locations within our urban regions, often in high crime areas. I made up my mind some years ago that to get good pictures of interesting rail sights I would have to go into dangerous areas. I have photos of places and trains that I have never seen published before. I encounter very few rail fans at these locations (the only times I have ever had anything stolen were on a tram in Italy and a bridge approach in a small town in Penna). I know that there is a good statistical chance that one day I may run into a serious problem while filming at Camden's Bulson St. Yard or in the back of some factory along the NEC in North Philly but if you want to photograph places and things that need to be documented before they are gone then you have to do this. I am not suicidal and have no death wish and I exercise prudence but I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads.
You choose to risk your life as part of a stinkin' hobby?
Maybe its a passion?
Well, he says "I cannot allow fear to dictate how I will document America's railroads".
That's a pretty strong statement, if not overly dramatic because he takes his hobby waaaaay too seriously.
It's not like he's on assignment for National Geographic or anything. If he was, he'd be part of a team with a security detail if the areas he travels are that "bad".
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
WIAR wrote: Back in '95 I flew to Champaign, IL and then drove from there to Monticello to photograph the exquisite Wabash F7A the Monticello Railroad Museum maintained. While in Champaign I drove to the IC's yard and about half-way there I started figuring it was a bad idea. I got there, the yard management let me on the grounds with just a suggestion to be careful and stay in-sight of the office, and I got out of the neighborhood OK, but it sure was scarey. Gangs hangin' on the street corners all over, cars with their windshields busted-out, prostitutes wandering the streets (one came-up to my window and all I wanted to do was get a green signal to get off that intersection) - not nice. I felt safest in the yard.
Back in '95 I flew to Champaign, IL and then drove from there to Monticello to photograph the exquisite Wabash F7A the Monticello Railroad Museum maintained. While in Champaign I drove to the IC's yard and about half-way there I started figuring it was a bad idea. I got there, the yard management let me on the grounds with just a suggestion to be careful and stay in-sight of the office, and I got out of the neighborhood OK, but it sure was scarey. Gangs hangin' on the street corners all over, cars with their windshields busted-out, prostitutes wandering the streets (one came-up to my window and all I wanted to do was get a green signal to get off that intersection) - not nice. I felt safest in the yard.
That part of Champaign (west of the tracks on the south end of the yard) is still like that. I still want to know about Decator Illinois.
Paul
Bob-Fryml wrote: Boy, this is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time. What a sad commentary about the state of urban America today.POP QUIZ: Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall (Nov. 1989), which entity had the highest number of homicides annually: Los Angeles County, Calif. or all of western Europe? The fact that I'm posing such an outlandish question leads me to believe that you, dear reader, already know the answer.
Boy, this is one of the most depressing threads I've read in a long time. What a sad commentary about the state of urban America today.
POP QUIZ: Prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall (Nov. 1989), which entity had the highest number of homicides annually: Los Angeles County, Calif. or all of western Europe? The fact that I'm posing such an outlandish question leads me to believe that you, dear reader, already know the answer.
America is a violent country. I'm shocked!!!!
However of course, their are neighborhoods on Paris, Amsterdam, London, even Athens, that I would never venture into either. And driving past the slums of Kuala Lumpur, don't think I'd had gone railfanning there either. And I do remember the curfews in Johannesburg when it was officially unsafe to enter parts of town. I've traveled a bit, and hey, there are sad, lousy, violent places everywhere.
Erie Lackawanna wrote: The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
Unless he attempts a "snatch and run" at the next station, pays to be carefull.
Have fun with your trains
sgtbean1 wrote: I've never been harassed by anyone so far while railfanning. Just a few months ago I had set up shop on top of a tunnel entrance not far from where I live. It was in the middle of a forested area, so I had to do a little climbing and such to get to the entrance. After about 30 minutes, a track gang showed up and eyeballed me. Although they could have called the police (people standing a stone's throw away from the tracks (especially in an elevated position) have been known to cause major trauma to engineers by throwing anything from rocks to treetrunks against the cab windows), all they wanted to know was what the **** I was doing there on a cold day and how I managed to get there. After explaining and showing them, I offered them a hot beverage to warm up a little and spend a good 15 minutes talking to them, before they left to continue to get the work done. That was the only time I've ever been "bothered" railfanning.Now I'm reading these comments and I can't help to ask myself: are these stories the proverbial exceptions to the rule, or do you really need to almost plan a military campaign just to shoot a few trains in many parts of many cities in the US? I mean, there are areas in the major EU cities (heck, even minor ones) I wouldn't want to get into at night. But I've yet to come across a neighboorhood I don't feel safe in during the daytime. Could someone put this into perspective (for the EU guy that never visited a US city other then Denver, Sacremento and Gillette)
I've never been harassed by anyone so far while railfanning. Just a few months ago I had set up shop on top of a tunnel entrance not far from where I live. It was in the middle of a forested area, so I had to do a little climbing and such to get to the entrance. After about 30 minutes, a track gang showed up and eyeballed me.
Although they could have called the police (people standing a stone's throw away from the tracks (especially in an elevated position) have been known to cause major trauma to engineers by throwing anything from rocks to treetrunks against the cab windows), all they wanted to know was what the **** I was doing there on a cold day and how I managed to get there. After explaining and showing them, I offered them a hot beverage to warm up a little and spend a good 15 minutes talking to them, before they left to continue to get the work done. That was the only time I've ever been "bothered" railfanning.
Now I'm reading these comments and I can't help to ask myself: are these stories the proverbial exceptions to the rule, or do you really need to almost plan a military campaign just to shoot a few trains in many parts of many cities in the US? I mean, there are areas in the major EU cities (heck, even minor ones) I wouldn't want to get into at night. But I've yet to come across a neighboorhood I don't feel safe in during the daytime. Could someone put this into perspective (for the EU guy that never visited a US city other then Denver, Sacremento and Gillette)
As I stated in my first post - I do a lot of urban railfanning here in LA and I have never been bothered once... scared a couple times, sure, but actually bothered no. Only time I was ever in real jeopardy was in a very safe suburban town.
I think you need to just be alert in certain places and at certain times. (Just remembered another time, when railfanning on mass transit in Philly in the 1980s, a guy sitting next to me, couple years younger than me, kept looking at my camera and saying "That's a nice Canon Camera... I sure could use one of those..." The train was very crowded though, so I was actually quite safe.
The "Day People" emigrate into the city for work or whatever at sunrise.
The "Day People" have a exodus out of the city at sunset.
Then the Night People come out. Usually those who live inside a US City at night has to live with alot of problems. Some of us choose to live in tiny towns or way out in the country where there is nothing but birds and small animals.
A city is exciting and dangerous at the same time. They go 24/7.
They used to broadcast on the radio every morning a roll call of those shot, stabbed or suffering from crime in some cities. 100? 200? people in a city of 10 million would be on this roll call list.
Out west all I heard on the radio is Commodity Pricing, Beef Prices and other minutae of farm living early in the morning.
That is the difference between a good area and a bad one.
And packing heat is at minimum strongly frowned upon in most of Europe.
I think we had about 10 or so home invasions in nicer neighborhoods outside of the city itself last 6 months or so. 9 were killed during the attempt to gain entry. I think one died later.
So invaders zero.
Homeowners 10.
And they were not prosecuted either.
Falls Valley RR wrote: I didnt bring up the gunplay as I didnt think it mattered. Ive heard and seen so much gunplay (Western term... bear with me; very serious stuff..) over the years as the sight or use of these things dont even bother me anymore. Under fire or not... but it does tend to focus you on getting clear of the problem.Here in Little Rock, people get shot often at night. There isnt so much by day so. We are a carry state and a deadly force home defense state as well. That tends to cut down on the problem.However what I do find disturbing is minor children having access to and use of firearms up to .30 caliber in bad neighborhoods.
I didnt bring up the gunplay as I didnt think it mattered. Ive heard and seen so much gunplay (Western term... bear with me; very serious stuff..) over the years as the sight or use of these things dont even bother me anymore. Under fire or not... but it does tend to focus you on getting clear of the problem.
Here in Little Rock, people get shot often at night. There isnt so much by day so. We are a carry state and a deadly force home defense state as well. That tends to cut down on the problem.
However what I do find disturbing is minor children having access to and use of firearms up to .30 caliber in bad neighborhoods.
Same here in Georgia. A lot of home invaders have been killed around Atlanta lately. I used to travel through Underground Atlanta a good bit. You could see people sleeping and tons of clothes and stolen parking meters scattered about. Never like having to stop at 10th street. I have never heard of anyone in that area being jumped, but I do know trainmen that have been shot at in the cab. That glass isn't bullet proof either, it may stop a 22. but anything bigger is comming in. Trouble can be anywhere. The unsuspecting looking guy down the street in a nice area of the suburbs could be a mass murderer. You hear it on the news all the time whenever someone is killed in a nice neighborhood, ''I never thought something like this could happen here this is a nice neighborhood''. I hate it when they say that, evil lurks everywhere, not just in the ''hood''.
We all can agree that most city in the U.S. and Canada can be very dangerous at certain times of the day. but after the expirence i had at Warwick Yard, Clinton Oh.(on CSX's New Castle Sub.) a few years ago, I will railfan anywhere. but I will not railfan there anymore.
Heres what happened:
I park my truck at the tower in downtown Warwick (clinton) got my camera out and processed down the tracks into the yard and waited for D763 & Z610 to get there. While waiting I saw 3 trains 2 east and 1 west. I walked down to where the old coal tipple stood to see if there was another westbound lined up, needless to say I didn't make it that far, before I was getting shot at by some people up on the hill. I got pined down behide a Coke Express car that had been in a derailment somewhere, as soon as i got a chance to go i did, and ended up getting chased down the track almost back to my truck. I waited there for Z610 to show and told them what had happened down in the yard and i let them deal with it. I always use to worry about thing like that when i would go up to Cleveland or Toledo or Pittsburgh, but I never expected it out in the country and so close to home.
Erie Lackawanna wrote: jcitron wrote: I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me. Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting. Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front. The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be! South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things. Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.John My avitar is my great-grandfather, William S Knox, the US Congress Representative from Lawrence and Andover in the early 1900s. I've never railfanned that area, although I've thought about it with all the great old mills along the river.
jcitron wrote: I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me. Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting. Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front. The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be! South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things. Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.John
I used to hang around near the South Lawrence yard in Lawrence, MA. I lived in the next town over in Andover, and would either walk to the yard or ride my bike over. I would have my little Kodak Disc camera with me (remember those?) and scanner. I would be left alone, but there was always that troublesome teenager that had to bother me.
Lawrence isn't one of the safest cities around, with its high population of drug addicts and other unsavory characters, but like everyone else here that ventures to less than safe areas, you need to keep your eyes and ears open. I would not venture up Essex Street or way up Broadway unless I was with someone else. These were great areas to watch the local on the now abandoned M&L branch especially during the early 1980s because the trains used to go all the way to Manchester. There was even working semaphore signals on the line, which made it more interesting.
Anyway for the most part, I would stay away from North Lawrence, and especially away from the Hancock Projects. A person on a bike or on foot is a fair target for something to go terribly wrong. Someone alone in a car is sure to have trouble. There are gangs that create incidents to trap unweary drivers. They send a child running into the street so the driver hits the brakes. There's another car following really close so that one happens to rear-end the unweary driver, whose just had his/her nerves blown by the child running in front.
The first reaction is to get out of the car to discuss the accident with the other driver, but instead of this being the normal exchange of papers, the gang members surround the driver and mug him! If this doesn't work, they will sometimes put another car in the front then flip the driver's car over and rob him. Nice area to stay away from. Even the police let the locals sort things out first before they go in!
Broadway is probably a little better, being Route 28, but still I wouldn't want to be in that area during the night. I've blown a few reds to get through as quickly as possible. Not a safe place to be!
South Lawrence was a little better. When I was hanging around the yard, I got to know some of the locals. At first they made comments and other threats, but I ignored them. After awhile they struck up conversations with me after they realized I wasn't out to hurt them. Later on, they would look for me to hang out with me and discuss trains and other things.
Later on, the railroad police and the train crew got to know me as well. They would hang around as well during their break time. I was even offered a job with the then B&M, but never took it. I don't know if I was being foolish or not because few years later, the old B&M became Guilford and who knows what would have happened by then.
John
My avitar is my great-grandfather, William S Knox, the US Congress Representative from Lawrence and Andover in the early 1900s. I've never railfanned that area, although I've thought about it with all the great old mills along the river.
That's really cool! :)
The area doesn't have much in the way of industrial tracks anymore. The only thing left is the South Lawrence industrial branch, which used to be the Lawrence and Lowell. The M&L was embargoed then closed in 2001. The yard at Andover Street is still pretty active though, and has become the home to a few more locals since PAR closed the yards in Somerville, Haverhill, and other places and consolidated the locals to Lawrence. You have to be careful though around the yard now. The PAR police aren't nice and will harass railfans. This wasn't the case with the old B&M guys, but ever since Guilford took over, things are different. This was even before 9/11. They now use that as an excuse to pull the strings and push the pressure on the railfans.
At one point this area must've been quite the place to watch the action. I've seen some late 19th century and early 20th century photos, including aerial shots, and there was a lot more track then not including the trolley lines that went up and down Broadway and Merrimack, and Essex Street.
On top of that, there were quite a few mills on both canals as well as three branches - the Lawrence and Lowell, Essex Railroad (Danvers Branch via North Andover), and the Manchester and Lawrence. The old station, which was on the M&L was torn down in the 1930's to make way for the old post office which was then torn down in the 1960s for "progress". A park and a really gross McDonalds occupy the place of the station.
The "new station" on the mainline, built in the 1930's is now closed, and a new MBTA/Am-shack parking garage has been built closer to 495. The idiot designers took the double-track there and singled it through the station so now there's a squeeze-point on the otherwise double-track line from Frye to Plaistow, NH.
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Lord Atmo wrote: doghouse wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"Surely not. And don't call me Shirley i just hate when people bring politics into this. i dont affiliate myself with either party, but i'm friends with lots of democrats and take offense when people bash that party. i'm also friends with republicans.i just feel we dont need to bring politics into this. that's why it's forbidden on most forums. it causes flame wars, trouble, all kinds of stuff back on topic: Altoona isn't too bad. i've biked there at 2:00 AM sometimes. no problems.
doghouse wrote: Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"Surely not. And don't call me Shirley
Lord Atmo wrote: Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? surely you meant "neoconservatives"
Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
surely you meant "neoconservatives"
Surely not. And don't call me Shirley
i just hate when people bring politics into this. i dont affiliate myself with either party, but i'm friends with lots of democrats and take offense when people bash that party. i'm also friends with republicans.
i just feel we dont need to bring politics into this. that's why it's forbidden on most forums. it causes flame wars, trouble, all kinds of stuff
back on topic: Altoona isn't too bad. i've biked there at 2:00 AM sometimes. no problems.
Its the season Atmo,
This last month I've been assaulted by supporters of both parties, and every candidate including a few I've never even heard of, each trying to rope tie and brand me to their candidate!
Give it time, only 10 months till.....uhh...Oh god its going to be a long summer isnt it?
RudyRockvilleMD wrote: Another factor to consider is change. A neighborhood that might have been safe years ago may have since gone downhill. The conventional wisdom seems to be if a neighborhood doesn't look safe it probably isn't, but as others have pointed out some neighborhoods that don't look safe might still be safe, at least early in the day.I had an experience in Michigan City several years ago when I was waiting to videotape the NICTD interurbans running down 10th Street in the west end of the city between 10:30 and 11:00 AM on a Sunday morning. I hadn't railfanned in Michigan City in 30 years, and the neighborhood in the west end of the city still looked safe. A teen-age kid who had an attitude wandered by, and he asked me what I was doing. I answered him in a civil manner, but when he started to give me a lot of guff I told him to get lost. My only weapon was a tripod with my camcorder on top of it, but when I reached for my cell phone which was under my jacket he left. I left after after I videotaped both the estbound and the westbound trains, but I still don't know if that part of Michigan City was safe or unsafe.
Another factor to consider is change. A neighborhood that might have been safe years ago may have since gone downhill. The conventional wisdom seems to be if a neighborhood doesn't look safe it probably isn't, but as others have pointed out some neighborhoods that don't look safe might still be safe, at least early in the day.
I had an experience in Michigan City several years ago when I was waiting to videotape the NICTD interurbans running down 10th Street in the west end of the city between 10:30 and 11:00 AM on a Sunday morning. I hadn't railfanned in Michigan City in 30 years, and the neighborhood in the west end of the city still looked safe. A teen-age kid who had an attitude wandered by, and he asked me what I was doing. I answered him in a civil manner, but when he started to give me a lot of guff I told him to get lost. My only weapon was a tripod with my camcorder on top of it, but when I reached for my cell phone which was under my jacket he left. I left after after I videotaped both the estbound and the westbound trains, but I still don't know if that part of Michigan City was safe or unsafe.
It has gotten pretty rough the last ten to fifteen years or so.
An "expensive model collector"
Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Let's just say I would don an eye patch and and hang with the pirate before I would get too close to the guy drinking out of the brown paper bag that followed me every time I crossed the street to stake out a new photo location. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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There has been some very good advice given here, and I can only add a few things. First of all, I am a city boy born and bred and no one is going to keep me out of my home town. That includes East St. Louis. When I was on the Police I was armed, but for the next 35 years I was an unarmed legal investigator.
Wherever I went, I acted like I owned the place. That includes the housing projects. I didn't show any fear because I didn't have any. And I never got into a situation I couldn't get out of. All the bogeymen, crazed crackheads, gang members and the like certainly exist, but not in any large numbers. And I live in the city that fights it out every year with Detroit to be named crime capitol of the country.
I'm old now, but I'll still go anywhere. I just don't railfan much anymore.
Bradenton,FL(Tropicana Juice factory) was one bad place I have been too. I felt really scared getting out for gas. Atlanta, Toledo, Jacksonville(inner-city Jacksonville near CSX's yard), and Wilson(NC) are the places that have been in unsafe neighborhoods.
Kevin
Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? Chico
No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Chico
OK, the flesh eating trolls is a good descriprion of some meth addicts I've come across, and yes, they DO live under bridges.
Pirates? no, how about gangbangers with almost every square inch of skin covered in prison tats, including one across the forehead sayin "Lil' Puppet".
Insect headed aliens, not quite, but biker Mongrols who had more than their share of insect infestation in thier body hair.
Democrats, nah, there OK, its the Scientologist ya gotta watch for, if yer not carefull and turn your back on them they beat you unconscience with copies of Dianetics, you wake up on a ship out in the desert where they try to get you to give them all your money or they'll kill you, and theres something about a spaceship too.
Mormons, watch out for them too, dont let the ties and white shirts fool you, turn your back and they'll knock you unconscience with their prayer books, tie you to thier bicycles and when you wake up you find your married to 3 slim blonde sisters that are 18, 19 and 20 and then...uh, wait a minute...this is a bad thing.....?
hey fuzzy broken..... the reason i was in fresno was to attend a MONSTER TRUCK show we were driving thru and saw the tv ad so we went had a great time.... they were quite a diferent bunch of people perhaps they would look at rail fans as being strange
there was mention of someone going into a bar and being of a diferent skin colour i had exactly the same experience when i travelled to chicago and train fanned the tracks around chicago.... i had no idea of good and bad areas... i entered a bar late at night and it was a bar full of " african americans " i stood out like a sore thumb and felt unsafe when i approached the bar and asked for directions and a drink " THEY " noticed that i was not american and people started to talk to me " HEY MAN I VISITED AUSTRALIA WHEN I WENT TO NAM " and i met some nice people i was still shitting myself ...not all were friendly... there are places in the australian outback where i would not go ....not safe and i would not go there for any amount of money even seperate bars for blacks and whites not safe.... peter
fuzzybroken wrote:"Fresno? Nobody goes to Fresno..."
"Fresno? Nobody goes to Fresno..."
How about some more coffee, Johnny?
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
alcorsd15dan wrote:wow, all this talk is kind of scary. im from nw minnesota i dont think id last to long.
Hey Dan, I've been to Minnesota, too, and if you can survive those winters, mosquitos, ticks and porcupines you are tougher than the average street nemaTOAD.
One recurring theme in these replies is a real compliment for having a long lens available. Sometimes you just don't want to stand around waiting for just the right angle, but that long lens will let you capture the paint scheme and then you can be on your way. I often settle for "roster shots" of stationary locomotives in questionable areas rather than continuing to expose myself waiting for the possibility of the "great atmosphere" photo that may not happen.
Bill
Soo 6604 wrote: There was one trip to Chicago where we took a wrong turn and ended up in a very bad neighborhood. We ended up getting pulled over and the cop asked what we were doing in this part of town. Told him that we took a wrong turn and was trying to find our way out. He ended up giving us a police escort to a better place. All i remember was that there was abandoned cars with not much on them, steel bars on all the windowd, graffitti everywhere and the ElAnother time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.Paul
There was one trip to Chicago where we took a wrong turn and ended up in a very bad neighborhood. We ended up getting pulled over and the cop asked what we were doing in this part of town. Told him that we took a wrong turn and was trying to find our way out. He ended up giving us a police escort to a better place. All i remember was that there was abandoned cars with not much on them, steel bars on all the windowd, graffitti everywhere and the El
Another time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.
Similar situation, south side of Chicago, cars jacked up on every corner, people running in the streets with baseball bats (I'm not lying) at 2:50am under the Chicago Skyway. Not a pretty situation...
Gary, IN was another weird town...especially the abandoned B&O depot..and the nearly abandoned town.
Phil
People who are urinating in the stairwells, needles in the street, weeds and unkempt yards along with vehicles on blocks as well as abandoned dwellings....
Hardly a rosy picture of a working neighborhood.
A working neighborhood is one where people are wearing what they need to, tending thier cars and otherwise doing what little they can up and down the entire street. YOU might be a stranger but sometimes these places welcome you if you bring something like a load that they are expecting for the good of all.
I stumbled into one street corner restraunt/tavern in Jersey one time. The absolutely dead silence plus skin color made it a very dangerous place for me. I pointed at my semi on the curb and straightforwardly asked for directions to the dock because I have business in the area.
60 fingers pointed towards one of the walls and I went down the road "That a way"
Steam Is King wrote: Pasadena Sub wrote: Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video. Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently. No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? Just kidding. Seriously, I grew up in a poor neighborhood where people couldn't afford to shop at the Gap or Eddie Bauer. People who might not exactly fit the dress code for a yuppie mall. While the yards were fairly neat and the garbage and litter was [usually] picked up, most houses sorely needed a paint job, siding, roof work and more. People who could afford cars kept them in decent running shape, but most were cosmetically ugly -- primer, a few dings and dents, rust, maybe a replacement fender of a different color -- after all, you're parking on the street, not in a garage or a driveway. Now it's one thing to avoid a neighborhood with a documented high crime rate, dilapidated abandoned buildings, etc., -- but to judge a neighborhood exclusively by its physical appearance or the appearance of its residents is being grossly unfair. A neighborhood doesn't need to look like leafy subdivision suburbia to be safe. Just because people don't look like you or dress just like you or groom themselves to fit your tastes doesn't make them "unsavory". Ever consider they stare at you because you're the one who looks so out of place?Chico
Pasadena Sub wrote: Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video. Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently.
Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video.
Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently.
Just kidding. Seriously, I grew up in a poor neighborhood where people couldn't afford to shop at the Gap or Eddie Bauer. People who might not exactly fit the dress code for a yuppie mall. While the yards were fairly neat and the garbage and litter was [usually] picked up, most houses sorely needed a paint job, siding, roof work and more. People who could afford cars kept them in decent running shape, but most were cosmetically ugly -- primer, a few dings and dents, rust, maybe a replacement fender of a different color -- after all, you're parking on the street, not in a garage or a driveway. Now it's one thing to avoid a neighborhood with a documented high crime rate, dilapidated abandoned buildings, etc., -- but to judge a neighborhood exclusively by its physical appearance or the appearance of its residents is being grossly unfair. A neighborhood doesn't need to look like leafy subdivision suburbia to be safe. Just because people don't look like you or dress just like you or groom themselves to fit your tastes doesn't make them "unsavory". Ever consider they stare at you because you're the one who looks so out of place?
For me, Chico... we are talking about crack vials on the street, homeless people urinating on themselves, dead dogs left on the sidewalk, not poor, working class neighborhoods by any way, shape, or form... (as an aside, all three things mentioned above, I saw last weekend when I fanned in a bad area). Regarding my comment that it's best to stay off mass transit right after school lets out... that is true of every neighborhood in America and the rest of the world as far as I'm concerned... high school students with an attitude are best to avoid... Charles
Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently. So far I have been unable to find much (if any) photos/vids of anything on this bridge.
peterjenkinson1956 wrote:we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
Sometimes at night we blow the lights. They are literally irrevelant in some city corners. Blue, red, green or whatever... irrevelant. Swoosh, around the turn or through the intersection we go. Dont you stop. Those that hung on the side were scraped off with a nice tree just kept it below 15 mph so that they wont bounce under the wheels.
back in 1995 ( last century ) i was looking at trains and it got a little dark ... found an off ramp to where i could turn around and get to my motel and found myself... and my good wife.. in oakland it was very scary not a nice place to be.... we stopped at a stop sign and instantly we were aproached by groups of people i gunned the car thru the stop sign and kept going the next day the relatives i was visiting in san francisco were most shocked to hear where we had been
in autralia where i live it is still rather safe.... we dont even lock our doors and windows ( cars and homes ) however i recently visited the north of england ) yorkshire ) and felt verrry unsafe
any unsafe areas in texas i am visiting there soon and would like to know
regarding the motels and sex trade... we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
solzrules wrote:As soon as you enter the city limits of Milwaukee you are in no-man's land. I've tried to follow the old beer line on the northeast side of the city, and for the most part the line is in okay neighborhoods. I still wouldn't want to hang out there after dark, but at least in the light you feel somewhat okay. ... I've tried numerous times to locate the North Milwaukee yard where the beer line intersects the Milwaukee Road lines from Horicon and Grafton, but that yard is very hard to access without trespassing so I've given up on that one. That area of the city is in real rough shape, too. You have to weigh your safety with your need to see something historical, and in that section of town I'd much rather play it safe.
As soon as you enter the city limits of Milwaukee you are in no-man's land. I've tried to follow the old beer line on the northeast side of the city, and for the most part the line is in okay neighborhoods. I still wouldn't want to hang out there after dark, but at least in the light you feel somewhat okay. ... I've tried numerous times to locate the North Milwaukee yard where the beer line intersects the Milwaukee Road lines from Horicon and Grafton, but that yard is very hard to access without trespassing so I've given up on that one. That area of the city is in real rough shape, too. You have to weigh your safety with your need to see something historical, and in that section of town I'd much rather play it safe.
I live in Milwaukee. My neighborhood is just fine. Ain't gonna change, either.
I've never found North Milwaukee to be that bad, but then again, I've always been there during the day. Most of the bad stuff tends to happen at night, especially after the locals have become fermented to just the right point. Of course, that's not to say I go in there all happy-go-lucky, either; I keep an eye out, and everybody who sees me knows that I'm not one to be bothered.
If you want to check out the area, let me know -- really, it's not that bad! And, earlier is better -- WSOR, and probably even CN nowadays, locks the power up behind the fence, safely out of reach of the "fermented locals", once the day's work is done in the afternoon.
I don't have to worry too much about anybody wanting my camera, anyways: it's broken!
Not while railfanning but I sure did when driving a cab in San Francisco. I just kept my head on a swivel, learned to read body language and did not have any serious problems. One needs to exercise a little common sense, be aware of your surroundings, know exactly where you are and always have a quick escape route planned. If in doubt, a photograph just isn't worth the risk of getting hurt.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Soo 6604 wrote:Another time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.Paul
The only KCMO police station I can think of that would have bars on windows would be around 27th street near Troost st, which is on the east side. Bullet proof vests are a neccessity there. I'm not sure why railfans would be around that part since there are not any places to railfan there that I know of. Not a good place to be lost. Union Station is well North and Northwest of there. The West Bottoms are good to railfan ONLY in the daytime, and should be with a buddy if you are not familiar with the area. If someone is not familiar with the area, I suggest Google Earth, or better yet, maps.live.com, which can give you a bird's eye view and in great real photo detail. There is plenty of parking at Union Station, and it is well patroled by their security department.
For hotels, I suggest staying on the Kansas side in Johnson County. There are some along I35 near 95th street, which is about 20-25 minutes away from the Bottoms. You can bring the family, because a big shopping mall and other stores are nearby, where the Mrs and kids can shop while you railfan in the Bottoms
Take care,
Russell
I've railfanned in Newark, East St. Louis, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Brooklyn, West Palm Beach, and many another questionable neighborhood. Just be smart and you'll be fine.
Pasadena Sub wrote:The CSX Abbeville sub crosses a rellay cool steel trestle over the Oconee River just north of downtown Athens, GA. There is a public greenway trail that runs along the river and some open areas where I could easily setup for shooting video, but while I have been there scouting out the shoot, some of the characters walking along the sidewalks do not seem to make for "video friendly" companions. I think the place is pretty safe by day and there are UGA student occupied apartments all around, but I will be on high alert if I decide to setup there.
Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video.
As railroaders, we have to travel through some rough spots. When I hired out I found out that most everyone carried a gun, they just don't advertise it. When I had to walk my train in bad neighborhoods I would usually pick up a stick or a pipe or whatever else I could find and keep it with me.
Knowing where you are at all times is good advice. If you find gang tags all over the buildings and bridges then it's pretty safe to say you could be in great danger. You have your more well known gangs like the crips, bloods,folk, and ms13, but the lesser knowns who are out to prove something and make a name for theirselves can be just as deadly. One on one most of these so called thugs are nothing. But when do you see them travel alone? You might take one down but you can bet the others aren't far behind.
Use good judgement when you go out railfanning. If your gut sences danger, then you should probably beat it. I excercise my right to carry a gun, not that I am telling anyone to run out and get one, but having one does make me feel a little safer.
Pretty much all of metro LA applies here, I used to do alot of work in the industrial parts of town, one project client required a rail spur and they chose a property off Slauson Ave west of the 110 fwy that had rail service, this was after the riots and the area was still very rough.
My grandparents lived nearby next to the Blue line route when it was still owned by SP, so I grew up trainwatching from the front porch, when I was younger I could walk over to the tracks two houses down but by the time I reached my teens the area had really slipped and it was not safe.
Lets see, other crapholes? Vernon (Vermin, as we call it) has lots of train traffic but I can only think of one place that relatively safe, the Metrolink station off Garfield. I would sit in my car and eat lunch there, I watched them tear down that massive factory where the dismal servicing facility now is. If you look behind the south side of the station where the spur cuts between the buildings their a great big 5 building warehouse development, that deveopments one of my designs! Uber-box!
I used to like Riverside Amtrak station, then it got scary back in the 80's, havent been back since its reopening as a Metrolink station, too far.
Pomona at the Metrolink station or the Antique mall is fairly safe, go a few blocks in either direction, ehhh.
The Harbor? forget it, thats drive thru viewing only, way too scarey, especially in Wilmington or Harbor City south of Dolores.
San Fernando Valley, Ehh, Burbank at the mall where the line splits is OK but farther up near places like Pacoima are very iffy.
I'd rather drive out to where theres less people but even that can be problematic as alot of "Deliverence" extras roaming the wastelends on motorcycles and SUVs also.
For the most part I've never had any direct trouble but I have gotten some looks that just screamed "you gotta pretty mouth" at which point I kinda hightail it out of there.
When on a trip up to the Bay Area I followed the tracks north out of Jack London Square and ended up it one of the scariest neighborhoods I've ever encountered, very gang ridden, everyone dressed like a gangbanger video cliche, very scary, needless to say I stood out, alot! I got outa there ASAP!
But I did see the SP Heritage unit while going thru there!
CShaveRR wrote: U33B, you just have to broaden your circle of friends--this Forum is a good place to start! It's so hard, with strange work schedules, etc., to organize a trip on a "club" basis. But if you wanted to ask the Forum about a trip somewhere on a given date, you might get a few "takers" who would be willing to meet somewhere. My most recent trip to Blue Island and Dolton was with CopCarSS and a cousin of his.
U33B, you just have to broaden your circle of friends--this Forum is a good place to start! It's so hard, with strange work schedules, etc., to organize a trip on a "club" basis. But if you wanted to ask the Forum about a trip somewhere on a given date, you might get a few "takers" who would be willing to meet somewhere. My most recent trip to Blue Island and Dolton was with CopCarSS and a cousin of his.
U33B-I live just down the tracks from you in FRG and would love to meet up with other railfans. I've yet to meet up with Carl and Jim at Eola yard due to schedules but it would definitely be nice to meet some others personally. Keep me in the loop.
As for Dolton, it is gritty and blue collar but it can and has been a dangerous place. There was a cop killed in that area not long ago while sitting in his car. It was still shocking to the locals but it is safe to say the area doesn't seem to be improving as much as one would hope. I'd agree that it is likely safer than Dearing. Personally, there are other locations I enjoy much more anyway. Franklin Park area comes to mind.
Mike
Only a few times, as I don't go railfanning much at all.
The first time was when I was in Ayer, MA with two friends. Nothing happened, but we stayed together anyway. It was daytime, but I was a little nervous when the sun neared the horizon while we were waiting for our train back.
The other time couldn't really be called railfanning, but I was driving with my father in Worcester to the train club, and we saw the Providence and Worcester yard job switching, so we pulled into an empty parking lot to watch. The brakeman looked around and said something to the engineer on his radio, so I realized it wasn't exactly a safe neighborhood, so we left.
Although, other than those two times and a few others, I haven't really gone on any other railfanning trips.
One more personal safety rule to keep in mind is to stay off mass transit for the hour or two when school lets out.
Although I wouldn't railfan a dangerous area on mass transit, when travelling I do railfan via bus, subway, train when I can... and I have found that even in marginal areas that many consider safe, being on a bus or subway when the high schools let out... it can get bad.
Falls Valley RR wrote: Sorta. There is a sex trade business on the east side of the river that can get dangerous late at night along towards Granite City.East St. Louis has little to nothing left except the interstate and that is all there is.Most of the time I stayed at Gateway or Effingham or similar locations and then entered St. Louis early in the morning. Kinda hard for a panhandler to walk 15-50 miles to knock on my door and ask for money.
Sorta. There is a sex trade business on the east side of the river that can get dangerous late at night along towards Granite City.
East St. Louis has little to nothing left except the interstate and that is all there is.
Most of the time I stayed at Gateway or Effingham or similar locations and then entered St. Louis early in the morning. Kinda hard for a panhandler to walk 15-50 miles to knock on my door and ask for money.
We moved from there (Swansea) in 2001. I have heard since then that Brooklyn has been all but shut down. There was a lot of interesting railroading spots in that area. I just went early to avoid trouble.
If memory serves there is a railyard that has sunk into the mud on the east bank. It is a great yard in size and all of it is kaput.
You think they at least will recycle the steel rails.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
garyla wrote: One of the busiest spots for rail traffic in the Western U.S. has to be Colton, Calif., where the UP Sunset Route crosses the BNSF Transcon main (with plenty of Overland Route-bound UP trains thrown in). Not the worst I've ever seen, but I don't feel like hanging around there alone. Not really a railfanning spot anyway, but San Bernardino's Duffy St. neighborhood (where the gigantic SP derailment occured in the 1980s and some homesites remain un-rebuilt) is an interesting place for a look-see, but I don't even stop the car.
One of the busiest spots for rail traffic in the Western U.S. has to be Colton, Calif., where the UP Sunset Route crosses the BNSF Transcon main (with plenty of Overland Route-bound UP trains thrown in). Not the worst I've ever seen, but I don't feel like hanging around there alone.
Not really a railfanning spot anyway, but San Bernardino's Duffy St. neighborhood (where the gigantic SP derailment occured in the 1980s and some homesites remain un-rebuilt) is an interesting place for a look-see, but I don't even stop the car.
Hi Gary,
The Duffy Street locale is in a neighborhood known locally as Muscoy. You are wise not stopping as this has traditionally always been a rough neighborhood.
Better to trainspot a little further up the grade towards CP Dike (the wash area) or more towards Cajon. Devore Road near Glen Helen Regional Park is a good spot for main line action with easy access from either I-15 or I-215.
techguy57 wrote: I'd second the Blue Island/Dolton area as being one I'd be wary of Mike
I'd second the Blue Island/Dolton area as being one I'd be wary of
Dolton and Blue Island, while gritty and blue collar in nature, are truley not bad neighborhoods. All of the aforementioned guidelines definatly apply here, but they are not too rough. Englewood, and portions of East Chicago and perhaps sections of Dearing would be best to avoid though.
~Kevin
**Opens a bag...
Here we go.
Several packs of menthol cigerettes, Several of regulars and one hundreds...
A few dollar bills and a stack of coins. (More later)
Clothes that are nuetral and not a gang color. Learn about Crips, bloods, Vice Lords, latin kings and MS13. Learn thier grafitti and stay clear of those turf areas.
When on foot, dont allow anyone to corner you, stay 6 feet distance and NEVER run in fear. Stand your ground. Display strength and clear mind. Be a lion. You might be very afraid inside your gut but as long as you are functioning (Dont let that voice shake...) you will be ok.
The encounter usually starts "You got a light? (Smoke? Dollar etc) Keep this material in a front pocket.
By the time that person approaches you; usually they have already evaluated you for attack or defense or other personal gain and made thier decision already how the encounter is going to play out... peacefully or with violence. YOU decide how it's going to go down by your actions, body language etc. Be a Lion. Lions are not prey and they are much harder targets than the weak ones.
Im sorry if this is rather rough and not polite or other high class consideration. That street or corner is just the same as the african jungle. You or them. Anything goes.
In really bad areas, the police will see you as a problem about to happen and frankly dont want it. One clue is they will be two to a crusier and have the 1300 deployed between them up front ready to use.
Take care of thier want and then walk off wishing them a good day but using your hand in a sort of a sweep with the palm out and half down making clear that you dont wish further converstation.
That is how some of these people trap you with converstation that suddenly deteriotes into several issues at once and try to confuse you. So My defense is no words, no problem.
While trucking I used to hire certain people who work that street to keep the rig clear of spray paint grafitti from the local artists for a while. Anyone getting on my catwalk between cab and trailer is considered hostile and I find a turn street and knock em off with a hard jack turn. I dont stop for directions, I dont ask directions and always have a alternate route out.
As far as I know I aint killed anyone or gotten too bad hurt. But certanily knives, meathooks and other implements are involved from time to time.
Oh the coins? They get smashed into the face of the attacker as a opening move to fight. Usually the others will stop for a second to gather up the half dollars. They cannot resist it and give you an opening to finish the defense or get clear.
Ive gotten old, slow and unfit and that is a very good reason to stay out of bad areas these days. The younger ones are quite quicksilver of mind, nerves and lethal in attack on that street. All the wonderful creations of laws, morals or other human considerations are absolutely worthless at that time.
Having said this, I must tell to you that there live people who are good and are sort of Angels or defenders in certian neighborhoods, even in the worst of places you may find a few who will in thier own way take care of you so you can just leave quickly and not bother that area no more. Because you are considered a target, liability and a problem that disrupts the normal flow in the night or day.
The best people I have seen are those who are working in the day time or on the market dock at night earning a wage for living. Those are the ones you want to be around as long there is no problem.
Jail is quite the training ground and usually they come out of that jail hardened further and better and go down to the markets sometimes to start up from the bottom and working up if they want a place of their own and a family. The rest are simply there until they get rearrested and back to jail.
The rest are lost and will not enjoy a good position off that street. They will die there at some point from one of the common infections, STD's drugs etc.
If you have a city block full of homes, complete family units with mom and pop along with a good coordinated network in all the homes. Generally it will be difficult for the bad elements to move in. But as these people die off, move out or otherwise cease to care about their "Block" the bad elements move in and take hold just like a weed.
Eventually only those without money, car or any resources are trapped there to be preyed on by the weeds. Then it is all used up and the weeds take over the next block and so on.
Yes...I was in beautiful Charleston, SC on business last year. I parked my rental car along side the NS tracks in what looked like a poor neighbourhood. Getting ready to do some train watching, I was approached by a rather unsavory looking character who asked me if I was buying or selling. Recognizing a potential problem I kicked him in the family jewels as hard as I could and took off running. That's when I knew I was set up...suddenly five or six loafers were hot on my tail, and I made it to my vehicle in the nick of time. Got out of there in a hurry...
But I have a question...those NS ties there in Charleston were made of metal...why?
Quentin, I do carry a tire pump (that's how I was able to keep going as long as I did!), and don't need wrenches to remove wheels or make adjustments on my bike (it takes about ten minutes for me from flat to back on the road with a new tube).
As for Chicago, I think that the everyone has covered the majority of not-so-good spots. I'd second the Blue Island/Dolton area as being one I'd be wary of, but if you go in the morning it isn't too bad. Of course I'm a hefty kinda guy so I hve a little bit of weight to throw around too. Just be cautious, and as Bill recommended travel with a buddy if you can!
I am also a lifelong resident of the Chicago area, and have been to several places a more reasonable person may not have (further proof that railfanning is a disease...). And i think Bill's advise is as good as it gets (you should sell it as a handbook...great stuff, right on the money). However, one thing that suprises me, and i may be sheltered i suppose, but i am suprised that there are so few "rail-fan clubs" with which to provide companionship and a bit of orginization to railfanning trips into the city. For myself, none of my friends are railfans, and my father has long sinse lost the desire to go out rail-fanning, so i am often on my own when i got out to these places and those that i run into are also alone, or with perhaps one other person.
Now i am not proposing gaudy tour bus arrangements or anything like that (that could worsen your situation, TARGET...) But a group to facilitate a way to "buddy up" and coordinate trips as well as promoting the hobby ingeneral. Have i missed the boat on this, or are there already this sort of thing taking place? I'd be interested to know.
Bottom line, i think that Bills advice about the "wild kingdom" senario is under-valued. Arm yourself with knowledge of the area, and a bit of confidence, the majority of trouble will pass you by for easier prey. Many of the crimes in these areas are crimes of opportunity. And lastly, and i dont wish to incite, but, dont be afraid of people who dont look like you, many of the areas in chicago deemed 'unsafe' by many of us are done so superficially without our full understanding of how certain inherent fear of those we dont 'understand' and may can play with our logic, even when we would like to think that we are color-blind and living Dr. Kings dream of understanding. And it plays both ways, i've met several people from these neighborhoods who fear comming out to where i live because of being seen as a target, not for crime, but as a target for un-due prosecution and harrassment from police... The struggle continues...
Beach Bill wrote: (snip...) Hope this helps, Bill
(snip...) Hope this helps, Bill
Really fantastic advice. Thanks for posting it. (The one about being in bad neighborhoods only very early is one I've always followed myself.)
Certainly most RR tracks are in the older part of town and things might not be good. I like photographing different short lines, and if you go seeking the Chicago Short Line or the Chicago, West Pullman & Southern (both on Chicago's South Side), it isn't always the best place to be.
I used to have the advantage of being a police officer, and did carry a concealed weapon and "Badge Americard". Identifying myself as an off-duty police officer to folks in the yard office usually allowed me to stand safely out of everyone's way without anyone getting upset. I am now retired and those benefits are no longer maintained (after 30 years of urban policing, I've seen enough to know I don't want to carry a gun any more).
With that police experience, I would offer the following suggestions if one really wants to get some of those photos in grim areas:
Hope this helps, Bill
I have railfanned many a questionable neighborhood in my day and I will say you have to be very alert, very aware and very quick. Unless you are with a group, you don't walk into these areas and hang out. You come in, get your shots, and leave.
That being said, I have only had one railfanning experience where I was in real jeopardy... and that was in one of the safest towns in America. Over 30 years ago - a friend and I biked down to the River Edge, NJ depot and rode our bikes all the way to the northern end of the platform to wait and see if the local freight came through. Well, on the northern end of the platform you are essentially on a shelf with a hill behind you that is too steep to climb, the tracks in front of you, and then another hill beyond them that is fairly steep itself.
Two large guys spot us, pick up large tree branches, and start walking towards us. We knew we were in trouble, and didn't know what to do. Finally, we both threw our bikes down the hill and jumped, rolling into the gravel. We got on our bikes, ignored our scrapes and bruises, and rode away through the parking lot. As we passed the closest we would get to the guys with the sticks, they threw them at us.
Point being... you have to be careful everywhere you go. There are knuckleheads and jerks to be found all over.
Ham Radio wrote: Railroaders often work on the "wrong side of the tracks" and the dirty little secret is that almost to a man they carry a pocket knife and a lot of the old heads pack firearms, rules be ignored....North of Dolores is the garden spot of Watts, ground zero for the two best riots in LA history. When a train goes into emergency in that neighborhood, rails stay on the head end until the railroad police show up to escort the conductor to the problem, day or night. The locals get very hostile when their street crossings get blocked.
Railroaders often work on the "wrong side of the tracks" and the dirty little secret is that almost to a man they carry a pocket knife and a lot of the old heads pack firearms, rules be ignored....North of Dolores is the garden spot of Watts, ground zero for the two best riots in LA history. When a train goes into emergency in that neighborhood, rails stay on the head end until the railroad police show up to escort the conductor to the problem, day or night. The locals get very hostile when their street crossings get blocked.
Same operating procedures were in effect back (in the 70s & 80s) when freights departed and arrived at the 40th Street yards on Chicago's near west side (Pulaski Road).
Sounds like the scene from National Lampoon's Vacation movie.
toledo and fostoria have some bad spots on the way to look at trains.one time 5 cop cars pulled up to a house in fostoria and matt asked what was going on.i just said that the man was bad and hes going to timeout.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
The old 16th Street SP station in Oakland. On a 14 day Amtrak pass, a high school friend and I had a layover between the Coast Starlightand the California Zephyr. We didn't want to hang around the station for hours and there wasn't a cab to be found so we went out to catch a city bus. How we found the schedule I don't recall, but we were waiting out at the bus stop and didn't know the fare. There was only one person to ask-on obviously derelict old man. But there was no on else and it was right in front of the station, in broad daylight so we drew straws (so to speak) and Brad came up short. So, with me watching for trouble, he went up and asked the guy about the bus fare, expecting the only reply to be the guy belching and throwing up a couple gallons of Ripple. Instead a very polite, apparantly well educated (and completely sober) gentleman told us the bus fare, the best connections to get across the Bay and an approximate transit time so we knew how late to stay in the city before we had to start back.
Learned then to not judge books by their covers so much.
Threre really isnt a bad part here. Nthe North side of the tracks east of M street is about as bad as it gets... And that is manly Those unlawful visitors that seem to pop up, and lots of drugs. But I dont fan that area at all, so I really don't have an issue....
We weren't fanning, but there was one time in the travels that I had with my dad while he was still a Square Dance Caller, We had to go through East Denver.... Not a big fan of that place... Good thing we had the .44 mag(exactly like Dirty Harry's) under the seat, and the CWP in the pocket just in case.
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
http://sweetwater-photography.com/
Ive probably been into enough dangerous neighborhoods around the USA getting into and out of the markets that I am very happy to see nothing but birds and crickets where I am when I railfan.
Ive seen the very worst and also the very best of different peoples around the USA.
To me, it's not worth going into bad areas just for a few images. Not worth your life. Especially when that photo or video equiptment can get the vultures another few days of drugs or booze.
Also alot of the activity that was present when I was growing up has literally been buried in new condos, developments and other projects and ceased to exist.
Railroaders often work on the "wrong side of the tracks" and the dirty little secret is that almost to a man they carry a pocket knife and a lot of the old heads pack firearms, rules be ignored.
Former SP crews (now UP) operating out of Dolores (near Los Angeles and Long Beach Harbors) had to enter the Pacific Harbor Line (former Harbor Belt Line) daily. Prior to the construction of the Alameda Corridor, there was a really bad area adjacent to the old Shell refinery (between CP Farragut and Badger Bridge) that the local cops referred to as the "Third World."
The inhabitants were the living dead, homeless crack addicts of the worst sort. Stabbings and robberies were common. The cops wouldn't go in with less than six units for safety in numbers. So what would the rails do when there was work? Line switches!
The junior trainman on the crew got sent out to line the switch when it was relatively clear. On one occasion, I saw an engineer actually hold a 9mm pistol out the window to cover the brakeman performing his duties.
Train crews were relatively safe during daylight, but at night they were instructed that if they were on the ground and heard any strange noise behind them to swing around with their lantern as hard as they could, then run. Fortunately, that area got demolished but it is still rough on the waterfront real estate.
North of Dolores is the garden spot of Watts, ground zero for the two best riots in LA history. When a train goes into emergency in that neighborhood, rails stay on the head end until the railroad police show up to escort the conductor to the problem, day or night. The locals get very hostile when their street crossings get blocked.
This happened over 20 years ago, but one late summer morning, I was down in Long Beach, CA. checking things out at SP's Dolores Yard, and decided to head further down the road that parallels the yard. After viewing a huge refinery or two, and some shipping container storage yards, I passed under a bridge with lettering saying something like, "You are now entering the Harbor District." No worries just yet, as the same industrial landscape I'd been watching continued to unfold before me. It wasn't until the road I was on dead ended (or so it seemed) in a rundown neighborhood consisting of old buildings from the middle of the 20th century, and a number of derelict people either staggering around, or passed out on the ground that I began to worry. First chance I got, I turned my mom's 1973 Chevy Malibu Super Sport around and beat a hasty retreat back to Dolores Yard.
UP's North Salt Lake Yard is in a marginal neighborhood, but the residents in the area mostly keep to themselves. I've never had any trouble down there, but if I get one of those gut feelings that now's not a good time to visit the yard, I'll try again some other time.
Columbus, Ohio - the focus of most rail action is the site of the late Scioto Tower, literally in the shadow of downtown. It's the crossing of the ex-PRR Columbus-Cincinnati main, the ex NYC West Virgina line (which carries a great deal of transfer traffic), and the ex-C&O Russell-Toledo Main. While not truly "dangerous", it's smack-dab in the middle of the local homeless "camping area" - I've been solicted for a handout on about half my visits. I've considered just bringing a cooler full of Olde English 400 the next time to save everybody time and trouble.
I -used- to be a operations analyst for an LTL trucking company, and spent a LOT of time in truck terminals all over the northeastern US. Trucking companies are not known for being selective about their surroundings - and I could tell you horror stories about working at night in places like Camden and Hoboken NJ, Brooklyn, Detroit, and Washington DC. Our Detroit terminal was so bad that we had two lines of 12' chain link fence with armed K9 units patrolling the space between. With trailerloads of valuable goods (clothing, electronics, appliances, etc.) all over the place, we attracted the professionals - there was more than one occasion when I feared for my life.
....I've thought of that Carl in the recent past doing a bit of riding on our trail. Never did have trouble though, but then I've not done a fraction of the miles Carl talks about.
Do you carry any bike wrenches with you Carl....How about a small tire pump, etc.....
Finally last year we purchased some LED tail lights and new headlights for riding our bikes here in the neighborhood...{not that it's dangerous from people}, but if we're out and it's getting dark, bingo we have lights. And those LED units you can see for a mile and the batteries last for up to 100 hrs....! They can be set to blink in several different patterns...Neat.
I happen to have a 12 volt generator and light on my 5 speed bike but that works the same as a dynamic brake. But now I have them both anyway.
Quentin
Yes -
As soon as you enter the city limits of Milwaukee you are in no-man's land. I've tried to follow the old beer line on the northeast side of the city, and for the most part the line is in okay neighborhoods. I still wouldn't want to hang out there after dark, but at least in the light you feel somewhat okay. The part of the line that still has the tracks in place (WSOR just filed to abandon even more of it) is not that nice a neighborhood and I wouldn't go walking thataway unless I had some help from Mr. Smith and his associate Mr. Wesson. Even then you are really playing some games. I've tried numerous times to locate the North Milwaukee yard where the beer line intersects the Milwaukee Road lines from Horicon and Grafton, but that yard is very hard to access without trespassing so I've given up on that one. That area of the city is in real rough shape, too. You have to weigh your safety with your need to see something historical, and in that section of town I'd much rather play it safe.
Something I've always wondered - what do the train crews do when they work in those areas? I can't even imagine the amount of crap they have to put up with. I've worked on construction sites on Teutonia, North, and Capitol Drive, and I can't even begin to imagine what a pain in the *** it must be in dealing with those people at night. We had tools stolen in broad daylight, prostitutes soliciting right in the middle of the site, and even a few shootings at one site (the masons saw one guy running like mad with another guy chasing after him pulling the trigger as fast as you could). You don't even bother calling the cops for theft - the few times we did (while the theft was in progress) the cops took about 45 minutes to show up. They might as well have saved themselves the effort. Given all that garbage on construction sites - what do train crews do when they have to handle the same stuff?
Well, yes...
Back in my younger days (between ten and twenty years ago), I did a lot more bicycling than I do now. Our friends from Michigan were coming down to their campsite in Portage, Indiana, and--since it was trackside, as mentioned in the camping thread--I decided I'd bike the 80 or so miles from Lombard to get there, while my wife and girls drove over, took Mrs. M. strawberry-picking, then joined us for supper at the campsite.
My biking route took me through some nice places (Downers Grove, Hinsdale, LaGrange), and some not-so-nice places (Robbins, Blue Island, Dolton, Calumet City), and into Indiana. Just as I entered Gary, I got a flat tire. About that time, I said, "This would make a sane person nervous!" I looked for a gas station that would help, but nobody dealt with inner tubes any more. Finally I was directed to an auto-parts store in a section of town I was totally unfamiliar with, where I bought a patch kit and attempted to make a repair on the steps of Gary's police department! A couple of folks stopped to watch, including one elderly lady who said "It's been over twenty years since I saw anyone do that!" I hope that that long-ago person had better results than I, because the patch didn't hold very well. I had to stop several times to pump up the tire again, and finally gave up at Miller, where I was rescued by Mr. M, only about seven miles short of my destination.
Lessons learned: never take a long bike trip without a spare inner tube. To heck with those patches! Also, the majority of folks you meet in places like Gary are pretty decent.
....In general, if one is interested in older depots in cities....they usually are located in questionable parts of the city. Have railfaned in one in the east {up on the platforms}, and at times have felt potential but never did have any trouble. Suppose one has to use good common sense.
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Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/
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