Steam Is King wrote:No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
surely you meant "neoconservatives"
Your friendly neighborhood CNW fan.
Another factor to consider is change. A neighborhood that might have been safe years ago may have since gone downhill. The conventional wisdom seems to be if a neighborhood doesn't look safe it probably isn't, but as others have pointed out some neighborhoods that don't look safe might still be safe, at least early in the day.
I had an experience in Michigan City several years ago when I was waiting to videotape the NICTD interurbans running down 10th Street in the west end of the city between 10:30 and 11:00 AM on a Sunday morning. I hadn't railfanned in Michigan City in 30 years, and the neighborhood in the west end of the city still looked safe. A teen-age kid who had an attitude wandered by, and he asked me what I was doing. I answered him in a civil manner, but when he started to give me a lot of guff I told him to get lost. My only weapon was a tripod with my camcorder on top of it, but when I reached for my cell phone which was under my jacket he left. I left after after I videotaped both the estbound and the westbound trains, but I still don't know if that part of Michigan City was safe or unsafe.
Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Let's just say I would don an eye patch and and hang with the pirate before I would get too close to the guy drinking out of the brown paper bag that followed me every time I crossed the street to stake out a new photo location. Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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There has been some very good advice given here, and I can only add a few things. First of all, I am a city boy born and bred and no one is going to keep me out of my home town. That includes East St. Louis. When I was on the Police I was armed, but for the next 35 years I was an unarmed legal investigator.
Wherever I went, I acted like I owned the place. That includes the housing projects. I didn't show any fear because I didn't have any. And I never got into a situation I couldn't get out of. All the bogeymen, crazed crackheads, gang members and the like certainly exist, but not in any large numbers. And I live in the city that fights it out every year with Detroit to be named crime capitol of the country.
I'm old now, but I'll still go anywhere. I just don't railfan much anymore.
Bradenton,FL(Tropicana Juice factory) was one bad place I have been too. I felt really scared getting out for gas. Atlanta, Toledo, Jacksonville(inner-city Jacksonville near CSX's yard), and Wilson(NC) are the places that have been in unsafe neighborhoods.
Kevin
Steam Is King wrote: No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? Chico
No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats?
Chico
OK, the flesh eating trolls is a good descriprion of some meth addicts I've come across, and yes, they DO live under bridges.
Pirates? no, how about gangbangers with almost every square inch of skin covered in prison tats, including one across the forehead sayin "Lil' Puppet".
Insect headed aliens, not quite, but biker Mongrols who had more than their share of insect infestation in thier body hair.
Democrats, nah, there OK, its the Scientologist ya gotta watch for, if yer not carefull and turn your back on them they beat you unconscience with copies of Dianetics, you wake up on a ship out in the desert where they try to get you to give them all your money or they'll kill you, and theres something about a spaceship too.
Mormons, watch out for them too, dont let the ties and white shirts fool you, turn your back and they'll knock you unconscience with their prayer books, tie you to thier bicycles and when you wake up you find your married to 3 slim blonde sisters that are 18, 19 and 20 and then...uh, wait a minute...this is a bad thing.....?
Have fun with your trains
hey fuzzy broken..... the reason i was in fresno was to attend a MONSTER TRUCK show we were driving thru and saw the tv ad so we went had a great time.... they were quite a diferent bunch of people perhaps they would look at rail fans as being strange
there was mention of someone going into a bar and being of a diferent skin colour i had exactly the same experience when i travelled to chicago and train fanned the tracks around chicago.... i had no idea of good and bad areas... i entered a bar late at night and it was a bar full of " african americans " i stood out like a sore thumb and felt unsafe when i approached the bar and asked for directions and a drink " THEY " noticed that i was not american and people started to talk to me " HEY MAN I VISITED AUSTRALIA WHEN I WENT TO NAM " and i met some nice people i was still shitting myself ...not all were friendly... there are places in the australian outback where i would not go ....not safe and i would not go there for any amount of money even seperate bars for blacks and whites not safe.... peter
fuzzybroken wrote:"Fresno? Nobody goes to Fresno..."
"Fresno? Nobody goes to Fresno..."
How about some more coffee, Johnny?
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
alcorsd15dan wrote:wow, all this talk is kind of scary. im from nw minnesota i dont think id last to long.
Hey Dan, I've been to Minnesota, too, and if you can survive those winters, mosquitos, ticks and porcupines you are tougher than the average street nemaTOAD.
One recurring theme in these replies is a real compliment for having a long lens available. Sometimes you just don't want to stand around waiting for just the right angle, but that long lens will let you capture the paint scheme and then you can be on your way. I often settle for "roster shots" of stationary locomotives in questionable areas rather than continuing to expose myself waiting for the possibility of the "great atmosphere" photo that may not happen.
Bill
Soo 6604 wrote: There was one trip to Chicago where we took a wrong turn and ended up in a very bad neighborhood. We ended up getting pulled over and the cop asked what we were doing in this part of town. Told him that we took a wrong turn and was trying to find our way out. He ended up giving us a police escort to a better place. All i remember was that there was abandoned cars with not much on them, steel bars on all the windowd, graffitti everywhere and the ElAnother time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.Paul
There was one trip to Chicago where we took a wrong turn and ended up in a very bad neighborhood. We ended up getting pulled over and the cop asked what we were doing in this part of town. Told him that we took a wrong turn and was trying to find our way out. He ended up giving us a police escort to a better place. All i remember was that there was abandoned cars with not much on them, steel bars on all the windowd, graffitti everywhere and the El
Another time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.
Paul
Similar situation, south side of Chicago, cars jacked up on every corner, people running in the streets with baseball bats (I'm not lying) at 2:50am under the Chicago Skyway. Not a pretty situation...
Gary, IN was another weird town...especially the abandoned B&O depot..and the nearly abandoned town.
Phil
People who are urinating in the stairwells, needles in the street, weeds and unkempt yards along with vehicles on blocks as well as abandoned dwellings....
Hardly a rosy picture of a working neighborhood.
A working neighborhood is one where people are wearing what they need to, tending thier cars and otherwise doing what little they can up and down the entire street. YOU might be a stranger but sometimes these places welcome you if you bring something like a load that they are expecting for the good of all.
I stumbled into one street corner restraunt/tavern in Jersey one time. The absolutely dead silence plus skin color made it a very dangerous place for me. I pointed at my semi on the curb and straightforwardly asked for directions to the dock because I have business in the area.
60 fingers pointed towards one of the walls and I went down the road "That a way"
Steam Is King wrote: Pasadena Sub wrote: Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video. Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently. No one has said it yet, so I will. I'm not sure where this discussion is going shines a positive light on railfans. Please describe what you consider "unsavory characters on the sidewalks." Pirates waving bloody scimitars over their heads? Human flesh-eating trolls? Space aliens with heads like insects? Democrats? Just kidding. Seriously, I grew up in a poor neighborhood where people couldn't afford to shop at the Gap or Eddie Bauer. People who might not exactly fit the dress code for a yuppie mall. While the yards were fairly neat and the garbage and litter was [usually] picked up, most houses sorely needed a paint job, siding, roof work and more. People who could afford cars kept them in decent running shape, but most were cosmetically ugly -- primer, a few dings and dents, rust, maybe a replacement fender of a different color -- after all, you're parking on the street, not in a garage or a driveway. Now it's one thing to avoid a neighborhood with a documented high crime rate, dilapidated abandoned buildings, etc., -- but to judge a neighborhood exclusively by its physical appearance or the appearance of its residents is being grossly unfair. A neighborhood doesn't need to look like leafy subdivision suburbia to be safe. Just because people don't look like you or dress just like you or groom themselves to fit your tastes doesn't make them "unsavory". Ever consider they stare at you because you're the one who looks so out of place?Chico
Pasadena Sub wrote: Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video. Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently.
Rail-Roadwarrior wrote: Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video.
Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently.
Just kidding. Seriously, I grew up in a poor neighborhood where people couldn't afford to shop at the Gap or Eddie Bauer. People who might not exactly fit the dress code for a yuppie mall. While the yards were fairly neat and the garbage and litter was [usually] picked up, most houses sorely needed a paint job, siding, roof work and more. People who could afford cars kept them in decent running shape, but most were cosmetically ugly -- primer, a few dings and dents, rust, maybe a replacement fender of a different color -- after all, you're parking on the street, not in a garage or a driveway. Now it's one thing to avoid a neighborhood with a documented high crime rate, dilapidated abandoned buildings, etc., -- but to judge a neighborhood exclusively by its physical appearance or the appearance of its residents is being grossly unfair. A neighborhood doesn't need to look like leafy subdivision suburbia to be safe. Just because people don't look like you or dress just like you or groom themselves to fit your tastes doesn't make them "unsavory". Ever consider they stare at you because you're the one who looks so out of place?
For me, Chico... we are talking about crack vials on the street, homeless people urinating on themselves, dead dogs left on the sidewalk, not poor, working class neighborhoods by any way, shape, or form... (as an aside, all three things mentioned above, I saw last weekend when I fanned in a bad area). Regarding my comment that it's best to stay off mass transit right after school lets out... that is true of every neighborhood in America and the rest of the world as far as I'm concerned... high school students with an attitude are best to avoid... Charles
Yes, and I agree there are some excellent photo & video opportunities there. I think it is safe by day, but I was eyeballed by some fairly unsavory characters on the sidewalks when I checked it out recently. So far I have been unable to find much (if any) photos/vids of anything on this bridge.
peterjenkinson1956 wrote:we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
Sometimes at night we blow the lights. They are literally irrevelant in some city corners. Blue, red, green or whatever... irrevelant. Swoosh, around the turn or through the intersection we go. Dont you stop. Those that hung on the side were scraped off with a nice tree just kept it below 15 mph so that they wont bounce under the wheels.
back in 1995 ( last century ) i was looking at trains and it got a little dark ... found an off ramp to where i could turn around and get to my motel and found myself... and my good wife.. in oakland it was very scary not a nice place to be.... we stopped at a stop sign and instantly we were aproached by groups of people i gunned the car thru the stop sign and kept going the next day the relatives i was visiting in san francisco were most shocked to hear where we had been
in autralia where i live it is still rather safe.... we dont even lock our doors and windows ( cars and homes ) however i recently visited the north of england ) yorkshire ) and felt verrry unsafe
any unsafe areas in texas i am visiting there soon and would like to know
regarding the motels and sex trade... we stayed in fresno once and were entertained when sat at a window in a restaurant and watched the girls standing outside " greeting " their customers and this place looked like a nice part of town
solzrules wrote:As soon as you enter the city limits of Milwaukee you are in no-man's land. I've tried to follow the old beer line on the northeast side of the city, and for the most part the line is in okay neighborhoods. I still wouldn't want to hang out there after dark, but at least in the light you feel somewhat okay. ... I've tried numerous times to locate the North Milwaukee yard where the beer line intersects the Milwaukee Road lines from Horicon and Grafton, but that yard is very hard to access without trespassing so I've given up on that one. That area of the city is in real rough shape, too. You have to weigh your safety with your need to see something historical, and in that section of town I'd much rather play it safe.
As soon as you enter the city limits of Milwaukee you are in no-man's land. I've tried to follow the old beer line on the northeast side of the city, and for the most part the line is in okay neighborhoods. I still wouldn't want to hang out there after dark, but at least in the light you feel somewhat okay. ... I've tried numerous times to locate the North Milwaukee yard where the beer line intersects the Milwaukee Road lines from Horicon and Grafton, but that yard is very hard to access without trespassing so I've given up on that one. That area of the city is in real rough shape, too. You have to weigh your safety with your need to see something historical, and in that section of town I'd much rather play it safe.
I live in Milwaukee. My neighborhood is just fine. Ain't gonna change, either.
I've never found North Milwaukee to be that bad, but then again, I've always been there during the day. Most of the bad stuff tends to happen at night, especially after the locals have become fermented to just the right point. Of course, that's not to say I go in there all happy-go-lucky, either; I keep an eye out, and everybody who sees me knows that I'm not one to be bothered.
If you want to check out the area, let me know -- really, it's not that bad! And, earlier is better -- WSOR, and probably even CN nowadays, locks the power up behind the fence, safely out of reach of the "fermented locals", once the day's work is done in the afternoon.
I don't have to worry too much about anybody wanting my camera, anyways: it's broken!
Not while railfanning but I sure did when driving a cab in San Francisco. I just kept my head on a swivel, learned to read body language and did not have any serious problems. One needs to exercise a little common sense, be aware of your surroundings, know exactly where you are and always have a quick escape route planned. If in doubt, a photograph just isn't worth the risk of getting hurt.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Soo 6604 wrote:Another time was in Kansas City. We just knew we were in a bad neighborhood where the police station even had steel bars on the windows and door along with a church.Paul
The only KCMO police station I can think of that would have bars on windows would be around 27th street near Troost st, which is on the east side. Bullet proof vests are a neccessity there. I'm not sure why railfans would be around that part since there are not any places to railfan there that I know of. Not a good place to be lost. Union Station is well North and Northwest of there. The West Bottoms are good to railfan ONLY in the daytime, and should be with a buddy if you are not familiar with the area. If someone is not familiar with the area, I suggest Google Earth, or better yet, maps.live.com, which can give you a bird's eye view and in great real photo detail. There is plenty of parking at Union Station, and it is well patroled by their security department.
For hotels, I suggest staying on the Kansas side in Johnson County. There are some along I35 near 95th street, which is about 20-25 minutes away from the Bottoms. You can bring the family, because a big shopping mall and other stores are nearby, where the Mrs and kids can shop while you railfan in the Bottoms
Take care,
Russell
I've railfanned in Newark, East St. Louis, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Brooklyn, West Palm Beach, and many another questionable neighborhood. Just be smart and you'll be fine.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
Pasadena Sub wrote:The CSX Abbeville sub crosses a rellay cool steel trestle over the Oconee River just north of downtown Athens, GA. There is a public greenway trail that runs along the river and some open areas where I could easily setup for shooting video, but while I have been there scouting out the shoot, some of the characters walking along the sidewalks do not seem to make for "video friendly" companions. I think the place is pretty safe by day and there are UGA student occupied apartments all around, but I will be on high alert if I decide to setup there.
Are you talking about the trestle at Fowler Jct. where csx crosses the hartwell rr at grade? That would make for a cool video.
As railroaders, we have to travel through some rough spots. When I hired out I found out that most everyone carried a gun, they just don't advertise it. When I had to walk my train in bad neighborhoods I would usually pick up a stick or a pipe or whatever else I could find and keep it with me.
Knowing where you are at all times is good advice. If you find gang tags all over the buildings and bridges then it's pretty safe to say you could be in great danger. You have your more well known gangs like the crips, bloods,folk, and ms13, but the lesser knowns who are out to prove something and make a name for theirselves can be just as deadly. One on one most of these so called thugs are nothing. But when do you see them travel alone? You might take one down but you can bet the others aren't far behind.
Use good judgement when you go out railfanning. If your gut sences danger, then you should probably beat it. I excercise my right to carry a gun, not that I am telling anyone to run out and get one, but having one does make me feel a little safer.
Pretty much all of metro LA applies here, I used to do alot of work in the industrial parts of town, one project client required a rail spur and they chose a property off Slauson Ave west of the 110 fwy that had rail service, this was after the riots and the area was still very rough.
My grandparents lived nearby next to the Blue line route when it was still owned by SP, so I grew up trainwatching from the front porch, when I was younger I could walk over to the tracks two houses down but by the time I reached my teens the area had really slipped and it was not safe.
Lets see, other crapholes? Vernon (Vermin, as we call it) has lots of train traffic but I can only think of one place that relatively safe, the Metrolink station off Garfield. I would sit in my car and eat lunch there, I watched them tear down that massive factory where the dismal servicing facility now is. If you look behind the south side of the station where the spur cuts between the buildings their a great big 5 building warehouse development, that deveopments one of my designs! Uber-box!
I used to like Riverside Amtrak station, then it got scary back in the 80's, havent been back since its reopening as a Metrolink station, too far.
Pomona at the Metrolink station or the Antique mall is fairly safe, go a few blocks in either direction, ehhh.
The Harbor? forget it, thats drive thru viewing only, way too scarey, especially in Wilmington or Harbor City south of Dolores.
San Fernando Valley, Ehh, Burbank at the mall where the line splits is OK but farther up near places like Pacoima are very iffy.
I'd rather drive out to where theres less people but even that can be problematic as alot of "Deliverence" extras roaming the wastelends on motorcycles and SUVs also.
For the most part I've never had any direct trouble but I have gotten some looks that just screamed "you gotta pretty mouth" at which point I kinda hightail it out of there.
When on a trip up to the Bay Area I followed the tracks north out of Jack London Square and ended up it one of the scariest neighborhoods I've ever encountered, very gang ridden, everyone dressed like a gangbanger video cliche, very scary, needless to say I stood out, alot! I got outa there ASAP!
But I did see the SP Heritage unit while going thru there!
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