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Who thinks Genesis #8 is totalled

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Posted by ndbprr on Thursday, December 6, 2007 12:40 PM
Has GE ever proposed this engine double ended with cabs at both ends?
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Posted by SchemerBob on Thursday, December 6, 2007 8:12 AM

Well, this is too bad. Oh well, nothing lasts forever. At least I have my paper model, my pictures and my video of the unit in action. If I had lots of money I would just give some to Amtrak and have them fix it no matter how damaged it was, just for sentimental purposes. Oh well, it's their engine.

Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
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Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, December 6, 2007 7:32 AM

 railfan619 wrote:
I think it can be fixed then again it all depends on what kinda damage is done to the frame. If the frame is to far gone they may just use the remains of the engine for parts. Also it all depends who's gonna write out the check for this repair. If it amtrak then they may but if it's the insurance company they may total it out.

There is no "frame".  It's a monocoque, as has been pointed out before - like a unibody automobile.

From the photos I saw, the rippling on the side sheets going back about 1/3 of the way from the nose makes me think there was a good bit of structural damage.  And, seeing the #1 truck back behind the fuel tank makes me think that the fuel tank - which is part of the structure - may also have been torn up pretty good.  Finally, you can't tell from the pictures if the engine/generator came loose from their mounts, but it it did, it could be a mess inside the carbody as well. 

It was good to see the cab hold up pretty well in terms of protecting the crew.  That was a pretty severe impact.

I think this one will be pretty far back in the dead line at Beech Grove.

-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/

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Posted by vtCSX on Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:33 AM

Does anyone have a link to some post-crash pics???  I'd like to see how bad it is....

 Marc

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Posted by chefjavier on Thursday, December 6, 2007 6:22 AM
I think Genesis locomotives should be vote for the ugly locomotive award.
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Posted by karldotcom on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 11:47 PM
Since I saw the first lawsuit filed, that engine is gonna sit in a tarp until all legal remedies have been extinguished.

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Posted by chefjavier on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 11:40 PM
It will get repair then be sold to CSX...Shock [:O]
Javier
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Posted by Ham549 on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 11:25 PM
P42's are POS anyway.
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 9:35 PM

On MNCR a yard collision did severe damage to engine, mounts and actually ripped them. 

With this crash I have heard the engine and generaor actually got ripped out of floor and slid forward into electrical cabinet, with the Generator only  8" from cab wall.

 If indeed this much damage was done plus the exterior damage its most likely the unit will be in back lot in Beech Grove for next few years till litigation has been settled then it will be scrapped.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:38 PM
 railfan619 wrote:
I think it can be fixed then again it all depends on what kinda damage is done to the frame. If the frame is to far gone they may just use the remains of the engine for parts. Also it all depends who's gonna write out the check for this repair. If it amtrak then they may but if it's the insurance company they may total it out.
Insurance company?  Wouldn't Amtrak be *self-insured*?  (By you, me, and the federal government?)

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Posted by railfan619 on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:23 PM
I think it can be fixed then again it all depends on what kinda damage is done to the frame. If the frame is to far gone they may just use the remains of the engine for parts. Also it all depends who's gonna write out the check for this repair. If it amtrak then they may but if it's the insurance company they may total it out.
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Posted by Randy Stahl on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:19 PM

 CShaveRR wrote:
Over on Trainorders.com a source that's usually reliable with Amtrak information says that the unit's too badly distorted to be repaired.  As has been mentioned, the monocoque design has no separate frame.  Maybe, if the engine and other components are all right, they can help restore something else to life.

I'll give them $16000.00 for the power assemblys!!!!!

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Posted by CShaveRR on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:15 PM
Over on Trainorders.com a source that's usually reliable with Amtrak information says that the unit's too badly distorted to be repaired.  As has been mentioned, the monocoque design has no separate frame.  Maybe, if the engine and other components are all right, they can help restore something else to life.

Carl

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 7:11 PM

.....Ok Jay, that makes sense.  The construction seems to force the unit to have small wiindows at the front and that to me, looks like it is a space frame {Monoque type}, and that might mean trouble if it is distorted too much, etc....

I hope Amtrak can find the money to do what ever is decided can be done with it.

Quentin

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Posted by eolafan on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 6:46 PM
It will be repaired.
Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim)
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Posted by SecretWeapon on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 6:46 PM
They'll fix it & lease it to NJ Transit.
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Posted by locomutt on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 6:42 PM

Depends on who's writing the check.

If the frame isn't damaged that badly, it probably can (and will ) be repaired.

I think Jay had the best answer. 

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Posted by jeaton on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 5:46 PM
 Modelcar wrote:

....From the photo I saw, one would think it would be repaired.  Believe the facility down south of Indy, Beech Grove, is one location that could do it.  I wonder what kind of frame such an engine has....If it is damaged beyond repairing, perhaps the engine would then be used to scavenge parts to repair others, etc. and  if financing could be arranged, it would be replaced.

Those bodies look like they might be constructed as a space frame as opposed to having a large heavy cast or forged frame.  And or do they have crush zones...?  As someone suggested, perhaps a new section then could be fixed to the unit to replace the damaged part.

Just speculating....

Q  Monoque body.  I think there are P42 engines on the wreck repair line with less damage.  Amtrak is hard pressed for money for wreck repairs and they are not currently short of power.  The engine will probably get down to Beech Grove on the dead line and stay there. 

Jay

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 2:23 PM

....From the photo I saw, one would think it would be repaired.  Believe the facility down south of Indy, Beech Grove, is one location that could do it.  I wonder what kind of frame such an engine has....If it is damaged beyond repairing, perhaps the engine would then be used to scavenge parts to repair others, etc. and  if financing could be arranged, it would be replaced.

Those bodies look like they might be constructed as a space frame as opposed to having a large heavy cast or forged frame.  And or do they have crush zones...?  As someone suggested, perhaps a new section then could be fixed to the unit to replace the damaged part.

Just speculating....

Quentin

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Posted by ndbprr on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 1:18 PM
Well from the pictures the prime mover should be ok so starting ticking off little stuff.  Did it break in a controlled way to minimize structural damage?  Can a new front end be welded on?  How much are new controls?  What hangs from it that needs to be replaced?  How much does a new front truck cost?  What is the labor to do that.  What will the insurance pay for?  So the answer is a big fence riding statement that say's if it is cheaper to repair it will be done.  if it is cheaper to replace it will be replaced.  Which all makes me wonder if the railroads have to keep records on loocmotives and accidents. Is there a railroad equivalent of Car Fax?
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Posted by youngengineer on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 12:57 PM
As said earlier yes it can be repaired, but cost is the consideration here, for the WP&Y cost would be put against trying to obtain another narrow gauge diesel, so they have probably a very high threshold for repair costs due to very high replacement costs. And I believe one the most important aspects when deciding to repair or scrap is frame integrity.
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 12:48 PM

Of course it can be repaired - the question is whether it's worth it.  Won't know that until they get it into the shop and torn down.

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Who thinks Genesis #8 is totalled
Posted by SchemerBob on Wednesday, December 5, 2007 11:27 AM

With all of the talk about the recent Amtrak crash in Chicago, I have been wondering if the locomotive involved in the crash, P42 #8, is going to be repaired. There is a picture of #8 on rrpicturearchives.net that was taken a day before the crash and many people have commented, saying #8 was totalled and would not return to service. I really do think that it could be fixed, though.

The only reason I really care is that I have come across #8 many times in the past few years. I saw it the first time in 2000 when it was still painted in Phase IV paint. Earlier this year, I just happened to custom-build a paper model of this locomotive in its current Phase V paint scheme and have been displaying it for a long time. Then in November when the special GrandLuxe cars were going through on the Zephyr, the locomotive leading the train on November 4th was...#8, of all the engines. And then #8 was involved in the Pere Marquette collision about a week ago. After looking at the pictures, it doesn't look like the body of the locomotive was damaged that much besides the nose. The underframe, including the front wheels and the air tanks were ripped out from under it, but besides those two problems (the nose and underframe), the engine looks repairable. I have certianly seen worse locomotives that have been repaired.

Consider these two pictures of a wrecked White Pass locomotive, before: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=173765 and after repairs:  http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=207328&nseq=1

So, do you guys think #8 can be repaired? I think it can.

Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob

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