With all of the talk about the recent Amtrak crash in Chicago, I have been wondering if the locomotive involved in the crash, P42 #8, is going to be repaired. There is a picture of #8 on rrpicturearchives.net that was taken a day before the crash and many people have commented, saying #8 was totalled and would not return to service. I really do think that it could be fixed, though.
The only reason I really care is that I have come across #8 many times in the past few years. I saw it the first time in 2000 when it was still painted in Phase IV paint. Earlier this year, I just happened to custom-build a paper model of this locomotive in its current Phase V paint scheme and have been displaying it for a long time. Then in November when the special GrandLuxe cars were going through on the Zephyr, the locomotive leading the train on November 4th was...#8, of all the engines. And then #8 was involved in the Pere Marquette collision about a week ago. After looking at the pictures, it doesn't look like the body of the locomotive was damaged that much besides the nose. The underframe, including the front wheels and the air tanks were ripped out from under it, but besides those two problems (the nose and underframe), the engine looks repairable. I have certianly seen worse locomotives that have been repaired.
Consider these two pictures of a wrecked White Pass locomotive, before: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=173765 and after repairs: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=207328&nseq=1
So, do you guys think #8 can be repaired? I think it can.
Of course it can be repaired - the question is whether it's worth it. Won't know that until they get it into the shop and torn down.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
....From the photo I saw, one would think it would be repaired. Believe the facility down south of Indy, Beech Grove, is one location that could do it. I wonder what kind of frame such an engine has....If it is damaged beyond repairing, perhaps the engine would then be used to scavenge parts to repair others, etc. and if financing could be arranged, it would be replaced.
Those bodies look like they might be constructed as a space frame as opposed to having a large heavy cast or forged frame. And or do they have crush zones...? As someone suggested, perhaps a new section then could be fixed to the unit to replace the damaged part.
Just speculating....
Quentin
Modelcar wrote: ....From the photo I saw, one would think it would be repaired. Believe the facility down south of Indy, Beech Grove, is one location that could do it. I wonder what kind of frame such an engine has....If it is damaged beyond repairing, perhaps the engine would then be used to scavenge parts to repair others, etc. and if financing could be arranged, it would be replaced.Those bodies look like they might be constructed as a space frame as opposed to having a large heavy cast or forged frame. And or do they have crush zones...? As someone suggested, perhaps a new section then could be fixed to the unit to replace the damaged part.Just speculating....
Q Monoque body. I think there are P42 engines on the wreck repair line with less damage. Amtrak is hard pressed for money for wreck repairs and they are not currently short of power. The engine will probably get down to Beech Grove on the dead line and stay there.
Jay
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Depends on who's writing the check.
If the frame isn't damaged that badly, it probably can (and will ) be repaired.
I think Jay had the best answer.
Being Crazy,keeps you from going "INSANE" !! "The light at the end of the tunnel,has been turned off due to budget cuts" NOT AFRAID A Vet., and PROUD OF IT!!
.....Ok Jay, that makes sense. The construction seems to force the unit to have small wiindows at the front and that to me, looks like it is a space frame {Monoque type}, and that might mean trouble if it is distorted too much, etc....
I hope Amtrak can find the money to do what ever is decided can be done with it.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR wrote:Over on Trainorders.com a source that's usually reliable with Amtrak information says that the unit's too badly distorted to be repaired. As has been mentioned, the monocoque design has no separate frame. Maybe, if the engine and other components are all right, they can help restore something else to life.
I'll give them $16000.00 for the power assemblys!!!!!
railfan619 wrote:I think it can be fixed then again it all depends on what kinda damage is done to the frame. If the frame is to far gone they may just use the remains of the engine for parts. Also it all depends who's gonna write out the check for this repair. If it amtrak then they may but if it's the insurance company they may total it out.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
On MNCR a yard collision did severe damage to engine, mounts and actually ripped them.
With this crash I have heard the engine and generaor actually got ripped out of floor and slid forward into electrical cabinet, with the Generator only 8" from cab wall.
If indeed this much damage was done plus the exterior damage its most likely the unit will be in back lot in Beech Grove for next few years till litigation has been settled then it will be scrapped.
My train videos - http://www.youtube.com/user/karldotcom
Does anyone have a link to some post-crash pics??? I'd like to see how bad it is....
Marc
There is no "frame". It's a monocoque, as has been pointed out before - like a unibody automobile.
From the photos I saw, the rippling on the side sheets going back about 1/3 of the way from the nose makes me think there was a good bit of structural damage. And, seeing the #1 truck back behind the fuel tank makes me think that the fuel tank - which is part of the structure - may also have been torn up pretty good. Finally, you can't tell from the pictures if the engine/generator came loose from their mounts, but it it did, it could be a mess inside the carbody as well.
It was good to see the cab hold up pretty well in terms of protecting the crew. That was a pretty severe impact.
I think this one will be pretty far back in the dead line at Beech Grove.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Well, this is too bad. Oh well, nothing lasts forever. At least I have my paper model, my pictures and my video of the unit in action. If I had lots of money I would just give some to Amtrak and have them fix it no matter how damaged it was, just for sentimental purposes. Oh well, it's their engine.
Two issues here:
1. From what I have seen in this thread and what I know about how insuracne pays off in collisions. As stated above, if the cost of repair is greater than the currenet value of the unit it will be scrapped and Amtrack will get paid current value. Otherwise it will be fixed.
2. It might be possible to get a new body and put the guts os #8 in it. Add any necessary parts too badly damaged in the accident and save a lot of money.
Any thoughrs on this?
igoldberg wrote: 2. It might be possible to get a new body and put the guts os #8 in it. Add any necessary parts too badly damaged in the accident and save a lot of money.
I would think this would be the option for #8. From what has been stated earlier some equipment has been jostled about inside the frame, but no word on whether the equipment itself is damaged. A little bit I suppose, but not enough to be junked I wouldn't think. I would think the engine & other components in the locomotive would be built to withstand stuff like this, much less come unfastened and launch forward.
Have you seen the sudden stop that train made? I wouldn't count on anything being the way it was built inside. In addition the engine bed may have warped severely and cracked the block or internal parts could have destroyed themselves and the rest of the engine. running at that angle if it did so probably prevented the upper cylinders from getting any lubrication and it may have seized eventually. Everything posted here is either speculation or conjecture and I am pretty sure Amtrak will do what is economically the best choice. It will probably be held captive until the NTSB is done their field data collection any way. so it may be stored for close to a year before any decision is made.
eolafan wrote:Hey, maybe we'll see #8 on a Carmax lot somewhere soon?
It will likely be in the lot sitting along side a few red DEI Bud #8 cars.
I read trains magazine a couple years that somewhere bewteen damage equals 60%-70% of cost of locomotive, it's considered totalled. But then, passenger locomotives aren't built as often freight, so it might be saved.
Here's what #8 will look like when it comes out of the body shop that repairs the Carmax wrecks.
If AMTRAK is to continue to exist, then they need to invest in a series of Locomotives from Motive-Power, Inc., a division of WABTEC.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.