Railroad History Quiz Game (Come on in and play)

[Texas Zepher]

South Jersey RR (SRJJ for some reason)?,  Winslow Junction.

 

[oltmannd]

Correct!

 The shortline is the the Southern RR of NJ (SRNJ) and they use the old CNJ "Red Baron" paint scheme.

A few random photos and other info:

 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=219338

http://raildata.railfan.net/java/Winslow/winslow.html

 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=36994

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=30707

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=205032

[Texas Zepher]

 From the Jersey Shores to the Great Rocky Mountains, and probably an easy one.

What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them?  (Hint, one of the names is a nick name not an official name for the RR). 

1.  ?           
Parent Railroad - ?
2.  ?
3.  ?
Nick Name - ?

 

[Texas Zepher]

 Not even any guesses?

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

 From the Jersey Shores to the Great Rocky Mountains, and probably an easy one.

What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them?  (Hint, one of the names is a nick name not an official name for the RR). 

1.  ?           
Parent Railroad - ?
2.  ?
3.  ?
Nick Name - ?

 

Not being much of a Colorado fan except for the NG I am only guessing. And I don't know all by any means probably not even one.

Denver & Salt Lake

Moffat Road

Denver & Rio Grande Western

That's all I can guess.

Al - in - Stockton

[Texas Zepher]

passengerfan

Not being much of a Colorado fan except for the NG I am only guessing. And I don't know all by any means probably not even one.

Denver & Salt Lake
Moffat Road
Denver & Rio Grande Western

Interesting guesses; however, none are correct.  The only standard gauge this railroad ran was it's last incarnation (the last name) and that was on shared trackage (3 rail) with the Colorado & Southern from Boulder to Denver.   The parent railroad was standard gauge, but none of the ones listed.

[al-in-chgo]

Western Pacific?

"The Feather River Canyon Route"??  -  a.s.

 

[KCSfan]

Texas Zepher

 From the Jersey Shores to the Great Rocky Mountains, and probably an easy one.

What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them?  (Hint, one of the names is a nick name not an official name for the RR). 

1.  ?           
Parent Railroad - ?
2.  ?
3.  ?
Nick Name - ?

Colorado & Northwestern

Denver Boulder & Western

The Class I parent road was either the UP or the C&S (Burlington).

Mark

[Texas Zepher]

al-in-chgo

Western Pacific?

Nope, wrong state and wrong gauge. This is Colorado 3' narrow gauge.

KCSfan

• Colorado & Northwestern
• Denver Boulder & Western
• The Class I parent road was either the UP or the C&S (Burlington).

Now some progress.  This info should make finding the others easy.

What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? 
1.  ?           
Parent Railroad - UP or C&S  but which one?
2.  Colorado & Northwestern 1890  (Mark's answer)
3.  Denver Boulder & Western 1909 (Mark's answer)
Nick Name - ?

[KCSfan]

If forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington.

While we're at it does anyone know how we can change the title of this thread to just "Railroad History Quiz Game" and eliminate the "Now Playing: South Jersey Question" which never should have been added in the first place.

Mark

[CShaveRR]

Not a problem, Mark!

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

If forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington.

An intelligent guess, but incorrect. It was the Union Pacific who did the initial bank role for this railroad.  BTW.  The Union Pacific was also behind the Denver South Park & Pacific.  This is what drove General Palmer to his "expand or die" philosophy for the Denver & Rio Grande, and The Rio Grande Western railroads.

[R. T. POTEET]

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

If forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington.

An intelligent guess, but incorrect. It was the Union Pacific who did the initial bank role for this railroad.  BTW.  The Union Pacific was also behind the Denver South Park & Pacific.

Do you have an attribute for this last statement; in all of my years of reading railroad history this is the first time I have ever heard that the Onion Specific had had anything whatsoever to do with the capitalization of the DSP&P. I don't know that it is not true; I am just wondering where you got your information.

The Onion Specific folded a bankrupt DSP&P as well as the Colorado Central--a road which they had controlled off-and-on for two decades--into the Denver, Leadville, and Gunnison, a company formed by UP about 1890 for the specific purpose of operating these two narrow gauge lines. Subsequent to UP's mid-'90s bankruptcy the DL&G was itself folded into a newly formed Colorado and Southern, a company formed in the late-'90s for the purpose of taking control of both the DL&G and the Union Pacific, Denver, and Gulf, a UP financed standard gauge entity; After a decade or so of independence the C&S subsequently fell under the dominion of "the Q".

It could perhaps be advocated that your statement on the bankrolling or the Colorado and Southern by the Union Pacific is substantially correct in that it was the UP which had financed the construction of the UPD&G south of Denver and which became the heart of the Colorado and Southern.

 

[Texas Zepher]

R. T. POTEET

Do you have an attribute for this last statement; in all of my years of reading railroad history this is the first time I have ever heard that the Onion Specific had had anything whatsoever to do with the capitalization of the DSP&P.

Hummm hmm, I don't remember if that was Ferrell's book ummm The south park line, or Poor's Denver South Park & Pacific, or Freeman's South Park and the Alpine Pass.  I read them all at the same time two summers ago.  Along with a couple of C&S narrow gauge & Colorado Midland books of which the author's I don't remember.  I was preparing for a field trip to the Alpine tunnel.   Could be I misread.  But I read it as the Union Pacific was pushing hard to get the DSP&P through to Gunnison (and hence the western slope), thinking at the time the D&RG was going short cut through Monarch.

P.S. As I remember this reading, it was when the railroad became the C&S is when the Alpine Tunnel and hence trackage to Gunnison was abandon.  Seems like they kept the trackage to St. Elmo for one or two seasons longer and then abandon every thing west of the Ark valley....

[KCSfan]

Texas Z,

Where do we stand on answering this question? I got the Colorado & Northwestern and DB&W right but you had to correct me on the UP part. If your original question has been fully answered who is the winner and gets to ask the next question? If it's me I have one in mind that I think you will like

Mark

[chad thomas]

 Great thread gang. I don't think I've ever posted in it, probably because I haven't known any answers , but I just wanted to say thanks, very informative and fun to read.

[al-in-chgo]

I think this is the time where I ask for a hint or to have the question re-phrased, including what we do and don't know at this point.  Please?    -  al

 

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

Where do we stand on answering this question? I got the Colorado & Northwestern and DB&W right but you had to correct me on the UP part. If your original question has been fully answered who is the winner and gets to ask the next question? If it's me I have one in mind that I think you will like

I was hoping someone would do a web search on the two names you provided and come up with the last two....   The original name was Greeley Salt Lake & Pacific - 1883.  The nick name that got attached was The Switzerland Trail Railroad.  This nick name out lasted all the other official names. 

So the full answer : What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? 
1.  Greeley Salt Lake & Pacific - 1883 
Parent Railroad - Union Pacific
2.  Colorado & Northwestern - 1890  
3.  Denver Boulder & Western - 1909   Often shortened to just the Boulder Western
Nick Name - The Switzerland Trail Railroad 1883-193x

 Take it away - Mark!

[Texas Zepher]

chad thomas

 Great thread gang. I don't think I've ever posted in it, probably because I haven't known any answers, but I just wanted to say thanks, very informative and fun to read.

It forces me to find out about and research railroads that I would have never taken an interest in before.  I've also found that I learn many new things when researching trying to come up with a question to post.  Questions need to be interesting but not too easy nor too hard.  I struggle for that balance. 

Also if you noticed the above exchange between Mark and I, it is obvious I need to go back and review the books I read a couple years ago. I would have been ummmm, secure, in my possible ignorance without that exchange. One can often think they know something until they expose it for others to critique. In this forum that exchange is a safe & friendly way to improve the quality of ones knowledge.

[KCSfan]

OK Here's the next question.

Off the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?

Mark 

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

Off the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?

Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr

General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr

Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route)

Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things.

 

[Deggesty]

I think that the Silver Streak Zephyr is the fourth one--it was not built with the power car articulated with the rest of the equipment, and it ran on its own named schedule (KC-Omaha/Lincoln?) The others named were built as one trainset, complete with power car. The General Pershing Zephyr replaced the Ozark State Zephyr in 1939. The various original articulated consists were still used for many years, often with no name in the timetables, as, for instance, the Pioneer Zephyr consist provided a Brookfield-St. Joseph connection for the Kansas City Zephyr when it (with the American Royal Zephyr) inaugurated in 1953 after the Q built its Birmingham cutoff and gained trackage rights over the Wabash to make its Chicago-KC line competivive.

The Mark Twain Zephyr ran between St. Louis and Burlington, but in its later years did not have a name shown in the timetable, even though apparently the same equipment was used until the schedule was abolished in 1958.

[KCSfan]

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

Off the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?

Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr

General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr

Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route)

Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things.

Texas Z,

Very good. I might add that in addition to the Silver Streak, both the Nebraska and Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyrs ran on the Omaha to Lincoln portion of the Pioneer Z's route.

You actually identified all the four Z's as I was counting the Ozark and General Pershing as individual trains. I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954. I don't have any where near a complete set of OG's for the period so I don't know when the Q actually discontinued this service.

The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.

Your turn again for the next question.

Mark

 

[Deggesty]

KCSfan

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

Off the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?

Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr

General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr

Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route)

Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things.

Texas Z,

Very good. I might add that in addition to the Silver Streak, both the Nebraska and Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyrs ran on the Omaha to Lincoln portion of the Pioneer Z's route.

You actually identified all the four Z's as I was counting the Ozark and General Pershing as individual trains. I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954. I don't have any where near a complete set of OG's for the period so I don't know when the Q actually discontinued this service.

The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.

Your turn again for the next question.

Mark

 

The General Pershing Zephyr's schedule was abolished in 1949. Its route was somewhat roundabout, going up to Mexico, Mo., on the CB&Q, and then to Kansas City on the Alton. The train was not articulated, and the engine was 9908.

A little more information on the original Zephyrs:

9900 was the Pioneer Zephyr, and it was originally operated under this name Kansas City-Lincoln 1934-1938, then to the Ozark State Zephyr schedule until the General Pershing Zephyr consist (engine 9908) and schedule replaced the Ozark State Zephyr schedule in 1939. It was moved around to several different schedules until it was retired and donated to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry in 1960.

9901 and 9902 (same make-up as 9900) were the original Twin Zephyrs. They inaugurated the schedules in 1935 and were replaced by the longer 9904 and 9905 (still articulated cars, but the engine was separate) in 1936. 9901 became the Sam Houston Zephyr and was wrecked in 1944; light-weight cars from General Service replaced the wrecked cars, and the schedule was operated until 1966. 9902 was operated as the Ozark State Zephyr until it was replaced on this schedule by 9900 in 1938. Apparently, 9902 was operated in nameless service until 1945, when it was put into service between Chicago and Ottumwa as Zephyr 9902. In 1947, it was re-scheduled to operate between Chicago and Hannibal, Mo., and it ran there until its schedule was abolished in 1967.

9903 was the Mark Twain Zephyr; it ran between St. Louis and Burlington 1935-1958,when the schedule was abolished.

9904 and 9905 were the engines for the second Twin Zephyrs (1936-1947), with articulated cars--and the names of Greek and Roman gods. In 1947 they became the Nebraska Zephyr, and operated on this schedule until 1971.

9906 and 9907 were the last engines built for trains with articulated sets--the Denver Zephyr, which was inaugurated in 1936. These sets ran until 1956, when they were replaced by new cars.

 

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

Texas Z,

Very good.

Well, at least you didn't ask a Texas Zephyr question. ....

I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954.

It probably didn't help that they didn't have their own trackage for that route and ran on the Alton.

The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.

That I did not know.  I thought it crossed the Mississippi before it got to Burlington and ran up through Illinois. 

[Texas Zepher]

KCSfan

Your turn again for the next question.

Switching to Santa Fe.   

Most of Santa Fe's heavy weight passenger fleet carried a not quite Olive not quite Pullman Green color.   There were a few passenger cars that were painted oxide red instead. Why, and what was their nick name?  I don't know if this nick name is unique to the Santa Fe or not.

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

KCSfan

Texas Z,

Very good.

Well, at least you didn't ask a Texas Zephyr question. ....

I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954.

It probably didn't help that they didn't have their own trackage for that route and ran on the Alton.

The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.

That I did not know.  I thought it crossed the Mississippi before it got to Burlington and ran up through Illinois. 

I have researched the Zephyrs for a number of years and this may help fill in some blanks on the 9900 Pioneer Zephyr.

The Budd Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, delivered the second articulated streamlined train of 1934 to the Burlington in May 1934. The entire three car articulated train was constructed of stainless steel shot welded together. The three car articulated streamliner was built with a Winton 201A 600 hp diesel engine powering an electric generator. The electric power generated by this generator supplied the power to a pair of traction motors mounted on the lead truck. The Shovelnose speedster was named ZEPHYR for ZEPHYRUS the god of the west wind in Greek mythology.  The lead unit 9900 contained the shovelnose control cab followed by the engine room a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment with Storage mail area occupying the remainder of the 9900. The articulated center car 505 rode on shared trucks with the 9900 and trailing 570 cars. The interior of the 505 contained a large Baggage and Express compartment at the forward end of the car followed by a Buffet and 20-revenue seat Coach seating area. The third articulated car number 570 seated 40 in the forward half of the car with the cars center entrance next followed by a 12 seat Smoking Lounge Observation. The beautiful boat tail Observation was built with windows wrapping around the end for viewing the passing countryside, unlike the Union Pacific streamliner with its windowless rear occupied by the trains Buffet.  On the 26^th of May 1934 the sleek stainless steel speedster set a dawn to dusk record between Denver and Chicago to open the Century of Progress Exposition in Chicago for its first year, averaging 77.6 mph for the 1,015 miles completed in 13 hours 5 minutes. The entire nation was able to follow the progress of the ZEPHYR on this momentous day live as it happened as a Radio Station had set up a transmitter in the Baggage Room shared with a Donkey named ZEPH while broadcasting live to the country. The broadcasts from the speeding train brought people to trackside by the hundreds to catch a glimpse of the speeding silvery flash as it passed. The 9900 ZEPHYR spent the summer at the Chicago Exposition close to the M-10000 also on display for the summer. The two trains were within site of one another at the fair.  After the summer was over the 9900 ZEPHYR became the star of a Hollywood Motion Picture named the SILVER STREAK the name it carried in the movie.   On November 11, 1934 the Burlington ZEPHYR again stole the thunder from rival Union Pacific’s M-10000 when the 9900 ZEPHYR train entered service between Lincoln –Omaha – Kansas City round trip daily, becoming the first diesel powered streamlined train to enter scheduled service in the world. The 9900 ZEPHYR train set departed Lincoln at 7:30 AM and arrived in Omaha at 8:25 AM; it then departed Omaha at 9:00 AM and arrived in Kansas City at 1:00 PM. The 190-mile trip between Omaha and Kansas City was operated in 240 minutes with six stops. The return trip began with a 2:30 PM departure from Kansas City with a 6:30 PM arrival in Omaha, after a ½ hour pause the 9900 ZEPHYR departed Omaha at 7:00 PM and arrived in Lincoln at 7:55 PM. It is interesting to note that after the M-10000 entered service January 31, 1935 that America’s first two successful streamlined trains operated with Kansas City as one of their terminal cities. In fact the two trains would have been in Kansas City at the same time daily within sight of each other.      A fourth articulated car was added to the train in 1936 and the 9900 ZEPHYR spent most of its operational career with this extra articulated car a coach in its consist. The extra car was withdrawn for the period May 31, 1936 to November 7, 1936 when the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR and the 9903 MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR were assigned to service as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS on a fast 16-hour schedule overnight between Chicago and Denver in each direction. When the new DENVER ZEPHYRS entered service on November 18, 1936 the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS were returned to their original assignments. The 9900 ZEPHYR became the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR after a couple of years in service. In 1938 the CB&Q transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to the St. Louis – Kansas City route as the OZARK STATE ZEPHYR operating round trip daily between Missouri’s two largest cities. In 1942 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was transferred to Nebraska where it was assigned to a Lincoln – McCook daily round trip where it remained until 1949.  In 1949 the CB&Q subsidiary Colorado & Southern leased the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR for one year and assigned it to Denver – Cheyenne round trip daily service. On this route it served Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, Fort Collins and Cheyenne. While in this service the train was simply referred to as ZEPHYR service. When the lease was not renewed the Burlington transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to service between Galesburg and Quincy, Illinois. It remained in this service until 1953 when it was transferred to St. Joseph, Missouri. When the CB&Q KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR was inaugurated between Chicago and Kansas City on February 1, 1953 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was assigned to be the St. Joseph – Brookfield connecting service.  The 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR would remain in this service until 1957 when it would begin operating its final scheduled service between St. Joseph and Lincoln round trip daily.    Today its permanent home is the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where it was retired to in 1960. Recently the train was returned to the museum after complete restoration and placed in a new display area in the museums new parking structure in recent years. 9900 CONSISTOrdered June 1933Completed April 1934 9900 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Power Unit with 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Storage Mail Compartment505 Articulated Baggage Buffet 20 Revenue seat Coach570 Articulated 40 Revenue seat Coach 12 seat Lounge Observation

Hope this helps.

Al - in - Stockton

[passengerfan]

Oxide Red was the color of Santa Fe's MOW equipment I believe. Don't know of any special name that I can recall.

Al - in - Stockton

[Texas Zepher]

I don't know if that is the right direction or not.  I believe AT&SF MOW equipment was silver.  

There is one of these cars shown in one of the tracks on  the Santa Fe Odyssey  Volume 1 by Green Frog.

[passengerfan]

Texas Zepher

I don't know if that is the right direction or not.  I believe AT&SF MOW equipment was silver.  

There is one of these cars shown in one of the tracks on  the Santa Fe Odyssey  Volume 1 by Green Frog.

I have Tracks of the Santa Fe Vol. 1 in my collection of well over 300 DVDS and Videos. I just have to find it among almost 400 in my collection. My hardbound book collection numbers over 500 and softbounds and magazines I have yet to inventory. I keep meaning to arrange alphabetically both books and DVDs but have got lazy. The reason I know I have the one you mentioned is it is on my list and I must go looking for it. Maybe it was not Santa Fe MOW I saw with the Oxide Red with silver roof. I have a six year old grandson who has become a RR fanatic. I began by giving him my Videos as I replaced them with DVDs and from those humble beginnings they were forced to buy him his own TV to play the videos on as he occupied the main TV almost all day every day. Now he plays them in his room and will not let any visiting kids touch them.

Al - in - Stockton