3 hours and 50 minutes arriving Penn Station at 10:50 am.
Mark
I'll say 3hrs 55 minutes to just beat the four hours so it appears on the first CRS screen.
OOPS wrong transportation mode, wrong era.
rrnut282 wrote: I'll say 3hrs 55 minutes to just beat the four hours so it appears on the first CRS screen. OOPS wrong transportation mode, wrong era.
I'm not quite sure what your abbreviation "CRS" as in "CRS screen" means. In my day, pre-Internet, "CRS" stood for a syndrome I had and still have: "Can't Remember S[tuff]." Do you mean instead, that you knew you'd get to be at the head of this page, no. 31, of the Quiz?
At any rate, YES! You are the winner. Scheduled departure of NB PRR (NYNH&H) no. 170, "The Colonial, 7:00 a.m.," sked. arr. at NY/Penn 10:55 a.m.** Just under four hours to travel 226.6 miles; if my math is correct the run averaged 57.85 mph -- not blindingly fast for varnish hauled by a GG-1. (And the only faster scheduled runs for that line come in at only five or ten minutes earlier.) Consider that in that era, the IC Chgo - Champaign "corridor" haul as well as (then) CN Montreal - Toronto trains averaged above 60 mph, and they were both hauled by diesel-electrics.
__________________________________
** Source Authority: Official Guide of the Railways, March 1967, p. 119.
So take it away, "rrnut"! - a.s.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
al-in-chgo wrote: rrnut282 wrote: I'll say 3hrs 55 minutes to just beat the four hours so it appears on the first CRS screen. OOPS wrong transportation mode, wrong era. I'm not quite sure what your abbreviation "CRS" as in "CRS screen" means. In my day, pre-Internet, "CRS" stood for a syndrome I had and still have: "Can't Remember S[tuff]." Do you mean instead, that you knew you'd get to be at the head of this page, no. 31, of the Quiz? At any rate, YES! You are the winner. Scheduled departure of NB PRR (NYNH&H) no. 170, "The Colonial," sked. arr. at NY/Penn 10:55 a.m.** Just under four hours to travel 226.6 miles; if my math is correct the run averaged 57.85 mph -- not blindingly fast for varnish hauled by a GG-1. (And the only faster scheduled runs for that line come in at only five or ten minutes earlier.) Consider that in that era, the IC Chgo - Champaign "corridor" haul as well as (then) CN Montreal - Toronto trains averaged above 60 mph, and they were both hauled by diesel-electrics. __________________________________ ** Source Authority: Official Guide of the Railways, March 1967, p. 119. So take it away, "rrnut"! - a.s.
At any rate, YES! You are the winner. Scheduled departure of NB PRR (NYNH&H) no. 170, "The Colonial," sked. arr. at NY/Penn 10:55 a.m.** Just under four hours to travel 226.6 miles; if my math is correct the run averaged 57.85 mph -- not blindingly fast for varnish hauled by a GG-1. (And the only faster scheduled runs for that line come in at only five or ten minutes earlier.) Consider that in that era, the IC Chgo - Champaign "corridor" haul as well as (then) CN Montreal - Toronto trains averaged above 60 mph, and they were both hauled by diesel-electrics.
Little know fact: The PRR corridor was only good for 80 mph! (never mind I clocked GG1s at 90+ time and time again) Metroliners were allowed faster and the NECIP (phase 1) plus AEM7s raised the speeds for all trains.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
blhanel wrote:If rrnut doesn't have one, I've got an interesting question related to the previous one that will have members shaking their heads when they hear the answer...
Heck, I shake my head just reading most of the questions!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Brian,
I love guessing more than making up questions, go ahead.
Al,
CRS is airline speak for Computer Reservation System. The fastest trips are displayed first.
OK-
On July 20, 1934, the Milwaukee Road did a special test passenger run, involving a five-car steel train with roller bearing cars. Pulling it was locomotive 6402, a four-year old engine regularly used on the Chicago-Milwaukee run.
Within a tenth of a mile without going over, what was the average speed attained by that passenger train between Chicago and Milwaukee?
Extra credit- this run also established a new world's sustained speed record (at the time) for passenger train travel over a segment of the line from Edgebrook, IL to Oakwood, WI. What was that speed?
Well, I suppose I could relax that a bit- OK, within one MPH. It's funny, though, the account I got this from has it recorded down to the hundredths!
Either way, Murph, you're over...
I'm shaking my head and I haven't heard the answer yet.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
blhanel wrote: OK-On July 20, 1934, the Milwaukee Road did a special test passenger run, involving a five-car steel train with roller bearing cars. Pulling it was locomotive 6402, a four-year old engine regularly used on the Chicago-Milwaukee run.Within a tenth of a mile without going over, what was the average speed attained by that passenger train between Chicago and Milwaukee?Extra credit- this run also established a new world's sustained speed record (at the time) for passenger train travel over a segment of the line from Edgebrook, IL to Oakwood, WI. What was that speed?
Brian, I have absolutely no idea, but just to narrow my thinking somewhat, however wrongly, I'll hypothesize that the five cars were prototypes of, or (after taking away a coach or two) the actual original consist of the trainset that became part of the historic Pioneer Zephyr run of Chicago to Denver, which IIRC had diesel-electric head-end power. Was the "steel train" mention an allusion to Budd-type corrugated streamlining of the type that the CB&Q would go on to adopt and then later make its hallmark as "the" look for classy varnish?
Sounds like the loco was a steamer, or else that dry run might have become part of the statistics along with the Pioneer Zephyr's 1934 Chi - Den run I mentioned above. I know that event also took place in 1934 but whether or not it happened before or after the Chi - Milw run at hand I don't know. It would make more sense to me if the Denver run took place between July 21, 1934 and December 31, 1934, but it's not material to the questions you posed.
For no particular reason, I'll guess 86.3 mph as the average speed Chicago - Milwaukee.
But if the engine were indeed steam, that gets a bit problematic. Steam held the speed lead over diesel - electric for decades after the 1930s and the beginning of the dieselization movement, IIRC. Though there's no justification in my logic (mostly because I don't have enuf facts to use logic!), I'll just guess that the speed-record-setting passenger run from Edgewood IL to Oakbrook WI averaged, ummm, 124.2 mph. That stretch seems to be the most rural in my meager recollection and if the stats had been kept on the basis of depart Edgewood to arrive Oakbrook, then any necessary coaling stop at either end would not have figured into the run times.
Well, it's a start. No way am I going to win this, but I'm happy the occasion arose to be the first guesser/poster. - al smalling
Mike, you're under. Al, you're over on both numbers.
EDIT: The account is not clear on this, but I have to believe it was a steamer. Could a steamer have made the run from Chicago to Milwaukee on one tender's worth of coal/water?
blhanel wrote: Mike, you're under. Al, you're over on both numbers.EDIT: The account is not clear on this, but I have to believe it was a steamer. Could a steamer have made the run from Chicago to Milwaukee on one tender's worth of coal/water?
I for one doubt it. Even if something like an extra-long tender were rigged, there would still be ashes and thirst to deal with.
OTOH the very fastest segment -- it was my guess above that the two towns were (are?) close enough to each other not to require a coaling / watering stop in between that would dilute the average speed. Not in a special situation, anyway. But then again, I guessed too high .
rrnut282 wrote:Without the mileage to work out coal/water and station stops and the distance between them, it's down to another WAG: 69.8 MPH overall with a sustained burst of 91.1
You're still under, Mike, in both cases!
Eventually, Al and I will meet in the middle.
Alex, I'll take average speed for 79.7 MPH and a burst of 118.5
Are we still playing by Al's rules and I'm out?
Hmmm...
I'm off to bed anyway, why don't we let it go until the morning, if no one else jumps in, I'll suspend that rule.
al-in-chgo wrote: blhanel wrote: Mike, you're under. Al, you're over on both numbers.EDIT: The account is not clear on this, but I have to believe it was a steamer. Could a steamer have made the run from Chicago to Milwaukee on one tender's worth of coal/water? I for one doubt it. Even if something like an extra-long tender were rigged, there would still be ashes and thirst to deal with. OTOH the very fastest segment -- it was my guess above that the two towns were (are?) close enough to each other not to require a coaling / watering stop in between that would dilute the average speed. Not in a special situation, anyway. But then again, I guessed too high .
Milw Road steam passenger trains regularly ran the 85 miles between Chicago Union Station and Milwaukee without taking on either coal or water enroute. I am actually more familiar with operations on the Illinois Central. In the days of steam most IC passenger trains ran the 126 miles from Central Station to Champaign behind 1100 class Pacifics and 2400 class mountains without stopping for coal and/or water. Both classes of engines had relatively small 4-wheel truck tenders. Only the few trains that made numerous stops enroute took on water but seldom coal at the Gilman coaling tower some 79 miles south of Chicago.
72.4 average and 98.5 sustained. That's my guess. I'm not sure, but you said the "article" claimed it was a 4 year old in 34'. Don't think MILWK had any passenger diesel in 1930. It was most likely a 4-4-2, IIRC, that MILWK used on the Hiawatha's. I would assume, purely assume, that Portage and someplace near Redwing would be fuel/water stops. Or one big gulp (insert 7/11 joke here) in the LaCrosse/Winona area?
Good night, good mornin', whatever time it is.
KCSfan wrote: al-in-chgo wrote: blhanel wrote: Mike, you're under. Al, you're over on both numbers.EDIT: The account is not clear on this, but I have to believe it was a steamer. Could a steamer have made the run from Chicago to Milwaukee on one tender's worth of coal/water? I for one doubt it. Even if something like an extra-long tender were rigged, there would still be ashes and thirst to deal with. OTOH the very fastest segment -- it was my guess above that the two towns were (are?) close enough to each other not to require a coaling / watering stop in between that would dilute the average speed. Not in a special situation, anyway. But then again, I guessed too high .Milw Road steam passenger trains regularly ran the 85 miles between Chicago Union Station and Milwaukee without taking on either coal or water enroute. I am actually more familiar with operations on the Illinois Central. In the days of steam most IC passenger trains ran the 126 miles from Central Station to Champaign behind 1100 class Pacifics and 2400 class mountains without stopping for coal and/or water. Both classes of engines had relatively small 4-wheel truck tenders. Only the few trains that made numerous stops enroute took on water but seldom coal at the Gilman coaling tower some 79 miles south of Chicago. Mark
Nothing beats real knowledge! I was probably freighting in (sorry) some assumptions about mid- to- late 19th Century railroading, the era of "jerkwater towns" and "tank towns" that were specifically created by the RR co's to have a place to provide water for the locos. This seems to have been the case most of the time for most of the western lines once they hit dry country. I retain some memory of the original such towns being spaced about 35 - 40 miles apart; but then again, what little I've read probably took place much closer to the era of Jupiters than to the Pacifics, Berkshires and Challengers of mature 20th-Century railroading. Thanks, Mark.
nanaimo73 wrote:I feel like guessing 73 mph for the average, and 101 for the peak.
You're at the fore, my ultramontane friend! This Midwesterner has gotta go to bed! - a.s.
I'll guess average speed 83 mph and top speed 117. At that time the Milw Road had a speed restriction sign in advance of its grade crossing of the EJ&E at Rondout, IL that read "Reduce Speed to 90".
No. 6402 was a 4-6-4 built by Baldwin in 1930.
Been doing some research, Al? Mark, you're now over on the first number, and everyone has been over on the second.
Snag, you were under with the first obviously.
BTW, Chicago to Milwaukee doesn't need to go via the Mississippi...
blhanel wrote:Been doing some research, Al? Mark, you're now over on the first number, and everyone has been over on the second.Snag, you were under with the first obviously. BTW, Chicago to Milwaukee doesn't need to go via the Mississippi...
blhanel wrote: BTW, Chicago to Milwaukee doesn't need to go via the Mississippi...
Okay, 77, 98, and the views would be much better!
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