EMD and GE - Why so much anti GE feeling on the list? Light the blue touchpaper and retire

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark W. Hemphill

Gentlemen: EMD vs. GE is a fine topic for this list. But U.S. vs. U.K.? That will not encourage people to come to this forum and become interested in railroads, but will drive them away. That doesn't serve any of our goals.

I totally agree!!

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen: EMD vs. GE is a fine topic for this list. But U.S. vs. U.K.? That will not encourage people to come to this forum and become interested in railroads, but will drive them away. That doesn't serve any of our goals.

[dekemd]

I always liked the sound of the EMDs. I love the sound of three or four sd40-2s up in the high notches dragging a heavy coal train at 5mph.

As for the bullet smuggler, what's the big deal? Without something to shoot them in, bullets are pretty harmless. I guess he could throw them at someone.

45144,

No offense, but from what I've seen and heard, English citizens are treated like criminals by England itself. Video surveillance just about everywhere, national ID cards, etc. Tony Martin (I think that's his name) was put in prison for protecting himself and his own property from a home-invasion.[:0]. Just out of curiosity how many times have you been photographed and fingerprinted in England for various things? Now having said that, I do think that the US photographing and fingerprinting foreign visitors is a stupid idea. It's not going to stop a terrorist or deter crime. It's just another feel good law thrust on innocent people.

Derrick

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by michaelstevens

[:)]
45144,

Please tell us more about your namesake loco -- a "Peak" class 1-Co-Co-1, Sulzer engined diesel -- as I recall ?

[8D]
L.C.

Please remember that a lot of British people (among numerous other nationalities) also were victims of the 9/11/01 W.T.C. attacks.

Enough said - back to the trains!!

I think/know what 45144 was complaining about, with;

"By the way - will you be taking my fingerprints for these heretical statements - it wasn't Britain where the guy carrying bullets got on the plane but it sure was Britain where he was arrested. Don't think I'll be visiting the States while I'm considered a criminal just for being from England. Sorry"

is the news that a passenger slipped thru Dulles Airport security carrying bullets -- flew to London on Virgin Atlantic -- and was not detected until he de-planed in London !!

[:0][:0]

Well said. Many countries lost love ones on 9-11. We must remember everybody who was a victim on that day. This is not a time or place to isolate ourselves. Lets not also forget the brave countries (USA, England, etc.) that are today fighting to protect our freedom.

Enough said - back to the trains.

[michaelstevens]

[:)]
45144,

Please tell us more about your namesake loco -- a "Peak" class 1-Co-Co-1, Sulzer engined diesel -- as I recall ?

[8D]
L.C.

Please remember that a lot of British people (among numerous other nationalities) also were victims of the 9/11/01 W.T.C. attacks.

I think/know what 45144 was complaining about, with;

"By the way - will you be taking my fingerprints for these heretical statements - it wasn't Britain where the guy carrying bullets got on the plane but it sure was Britain where he was arrested. Don't think I'll be visiting the States while I'm considered a criminal just for being from England. Sorry"

is the news that a passenger slipped thru Dulles Airport security carrying bullets -- flew to London on Virgin Atlantic -- and was not detected until he de-planed in London !!

[:0][:0]

[Anonymous]

There's nothing wrong with GEs, I see them every day. I never see EMD, so I like EMD. GEs chugging is the best sound I've ever heard, though.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for explaining exactly what the difference between GE and EMD is and I shall look at those locos in a new light from now on. To be honest I like to watch them all and they're all pretty impressive - I just could never understand the passion for EMD. Point well taken.

As to Anti-American I think you misunderstand me - I spent 15 years in the military so security is pretty important to me too, you don't get it by upsetting your freinds though. i take it that the story of the guy carrying ammunition onto a plane in the US and only being arrested when he landed here hadn't made it through the networks when you read the posts.

Please be assured that I support you in keeping terrorists out - please remember that we have had the same situation for years in Ireland and I was apart of that in some bad times

[AntonioFP45]

Good thread!

As a railfan I've always like the distinct "chugging" of the old GE U-Boats, but most of the people that actually run and work on locos that I've run into rank EMDs much higher on the reliability list. One engineer I spoke to disliked the GEs and the desktop "trolley car" style controls.

BTW: Is it true that EMD (or GE) is returning the traditional style control stand in an updated version? On Railfan.net I've seen some pictures of modern Canadian GEs and EMDs with the AAR style stand with colorful buttons and levers. Was a nice surprise!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Whooeeeee L.C. you set that dude on fire! Hehehe. Spending the majority of my waking hours on a damn loco, I must say that G.E. -9s are rattling trashcans compared to the sweet silence of an EMD MAC.
Ken

I was just thinking the same thing Ken, about the difference in sound. I hear SD70's all the time, but got to listen to just 2 Dash9's the other day - they sound like old Singer Sewing Machines - (some of you are old enough to remember what an old sewing machine sounded like). The 9's are really quite noisy - big difference to the quieter SD70.

Mookie

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Whooeeeee L.C. you set that dude on fire! Hehehe. Spending the majority of my waking hours on a damn loco, I must say that G.E. -9s are rattling trashcans compared to the sweet silence of an EMD MAC.
Ken

Ken-

Perhaps I am a bit hard on our friend from across the sea but I can't help thinking about my wife's college reunion in June '01 shaking hands with the young alumni association president. A few months later I was turning on CNN having woken up late after a hard turn on the rails when he and his 3 year old son disappeared into the fireball at Tower 2 of the WTC enroute home to L.A. Likewise I can't help but think of the smiles shared with some of the guys from FDNY Rescue I met at various firefighting training seminars over the years, at least two I remember never returned from that fateful alarm. I didn't know any of them all that well, but it was well enough for me. I guess it makes me a bit thin skinned on the subject.

Maybe that guy who was gonna place charges up against a viaduct when he got here will be caught or even deterred by the fingerprinting and photographing or other security, and we and our train crews can continue operating another day or week or month in safety. I hope so.

LC

[edblysard]

They are Amtrak crews.
They change crews a lot here, Uncle Pete dosnt let them into town on time very often, so it gets here anywhere between 9 pm and 1 or 2 am, depends on what the Yellow Peril has in front of it.
Seen it held for over a hour out at Englewood, so a yard to yard transfer from Settagast could creep into Englewood.

Yeah, one of my daughter's teachers put her name in the pot, over 1000 names, the kids had to interview for one of the 40 slots.
They will be there for two weeks, one week in England, the the last week in Scottland and Wales.
Already have three or four 12 packs of the one time around Kodak cameras.
Ten years old, and getting to sit in on a session of Parliment.
Way too cool.
Ed

[kenneo]

45144 ------- The US railroads do not even have sufficient money to make the original purchase of equipment. The have to lease with a purchase option. To do so with a non-rebuildable locomotive makes such an item expensive.

The 567 series engines that EMD started out with, that powered the GP7, GP9, F7, F9, E7, E8, E9, and so on until the SD40, have all been rebuilt many times. The turbo models of the 567 have fared badley because of mechanical weaknesses, but these were corrected with the 645 engine.

In fact, I have run 567 series engines that were built before I was born, they have been rebuilt many times, and are still running. And I was born during WW2. The short line RR I worked for had as its newest engine an SD9 that was built in 1954, and will out pull ANY GE horse for horse. It would have taken 4 GE's at a price pushing 10 million (total) to do the work that the single SD9 (567C) has done over 49 years and purchased and rebuilt over the years for a price less that 4 millions.

Reliability and economy.

I was in London twice this past summer. Enjoyed it, and not an EMD in sight.

[Anonymous]

Hey Ed......I was wondering where everyone was at on here .....I guess everyone moves around to different forum subjects......I just wanted to say hello and hope your having a nice new year. I also was wondering about something and thought you could tell me the answer. In Houston for example, Amtraks Sunset Limited....are the crews from BNSF, U.P...that get called for train service on their trains....or are there seperate Amtrak crews specificly for Amtraks run through service??.........[:)].....P.S......Hey thats pretty awsome about your daughters trip.....a once in a lifetime chance...don't forget the camera.....Later

[UPTRAIN]

I don't know nothing about england but it dosn't matter how it sounds but if it pulls hook it on my train [:D]

[edblysard]

45144,
Your right on that, make a post in favor of one thing, and the folks with a opposing viewpoint will flood out of the woodwork.
I think, and this is my opinion only, that you will find most American locomotive engineers favor or like the EMD products over GE.
But, like you said...

I own one of your countries greatest exports...
A MGB roadster.
In fact, I own two of the silly things.
For a country that make great electronics, who designed the cruddy electrical system?
Got so tired of replacing the very expensive Lucas alternator, I adapted, well, a Remy-Delco, (GM) alternator to fit, and havent had a single problem since.
But, the car is a very, very well built machine.
Fine threads on most bolts and fasteners make lock washers un necessary.
Heavy guage, rolled steel instead of cheap stamped fenders, dual bulkheads, a well engineered piece of automotive art.
And fun as all get out to drive.
Because the guys who built it decided that, instead of building a car that the owner discards after a few years, they would build a car that the owner would want to keep and repair when needed, and built it to last, so the owner wouldnt want to buy another brand.

Well, EMD locomotives are built with the same idea in mind.
They were designed to be the last locomotive you had to buy.

Take something as simple as a door hinge on the hood.
GE bolts theirs in place, EMD welds theirs.
Why?
Because the hood on a locomotiv gets the stuffing beat out of it, it flexes and bends, and takes a severe pounding in service.
GE crew cabs are horrible to work in, they are not designed with people in mind.
You cant adjust the engineers seat, the lighting in in the wrong place to use it, the controls are awkward, small things that add up to a less desireable piece of equipment.

EMD designed their locomotives with the concept that the customer was going to beat them up, and run them for all they were worth, and then, when they reached the end for their service life, instead of scrapping them, the customer would realize how much cheaper it would be to rebuild them and run them several million miles more.
They even offer a package and the service techs to help railroads do just that.

GE dosnt offer anything like that.
In fact, they are counting on the railroads to scrap their product, and buy newer locomotives from them.
I am not a fan of built in obsolete factors, the idea of building something to wear out on purpose just rubs me wrong.

Of course, the locomotives you have "over there" were designed and built somewhat to specs required by your railroad, and some things that apply to American freight locomotives wouldt make much difference in their application.

And I have lived in your country, my dad was stationed there for a while.
You live on a island that can, as does, keeps its borders closed.
You can do that relaitively easy, compaired to America, where the idea of even attempting to close our borders is laughable.
There is just too many miles, and too few officers to even try.
I like living in a country where I dont have to have a internal passport, I was a guest in a country like that once, the idea of being able to jump in my trusty MGB, and drive from Texas to Maine, without haveing to show anyone a document, or having to explaine to anyone why I am doing it appeals to me.

Oh, and my middle daughter is going to be a guest in your country this summer, she is part of a student ambassador program.
She will get to sit in on a session of Parliment, as a guest of the European Democratic party leader, whos name escapes me right this instant.
The whole idea, of course, is to allow her, and the students from your country that are visiting America, to see just how much alike our countries are, and, in some ways, just how different.

Wish you had a e-mail I could send some photos of the ugly little beasties I work on to.

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Whooeeeee L.C. you set that dude on fire! Hehehe. Spending the majority of my waking hours on a damn loco, I must say that G.E. -9s are rattling trashcans compared to the sweet silence of an EMD MAC.
Ken

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 45144

Respect Ed,

I can't argue with the guys that run the things - there had to be a reason why they get a good press. Mind you - Pound to a penny someone replies with the exact opposite view.

I'm just a railfan and EMD have killed the interest over here - basically 85% of freight haulage is in the hands of 1 class (which says something for the reliability) but it does it so damn efficiently - Yawn

All the best and keep 'the land of the free' free.

45144

Luckily EMD doesn't build locomotives for how they look, sound or appear on film. Like Ed said give me EMD any old day. There is no comparison they are FAR more reliable. GEs are cheaper mass produced junk. The Dash 9s aren't as bad as the earlier units, but the computer will still drive you nuts.

Oh, one other thing, I had a chance to speak with a couple of your "Driver's" here in the USA on vacation and they seemed to like the Class 66s they were running just fine. had a lot fewer failures than much of the older stuff over there.

Also, it is my understanding that fingerprinting and photographing is for folks from countries requiring a visa for entry into the U.S. As far as I'm aware Great Britain is not such a country so perhaps you should check your facts before spouting anti-American garbage. Having lost good friends on 9-11 you'll get no sympathy from me even if you are printed and photographed.

LC

[David3]

I really don't care who made the locomotives, I just want to watch and hear them doing their hard job!
Dave [:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Respect Ed,

I can't argue with the guys that run the things - there had to be a reason why they get a good press. Mind you - Pound to a penny someone replies with the exact opposite view.

I'm just a railfan and EMD have killed the interest over here - basically 85% of freight haulage is in the hands of 1 class (which says something for the reliability) but it does it so damn efficiently - Yawn

All the best and keep 'the land of the free' free.

45144

[espeefoamer]

For many years,in fact until the Dash 8 came out,GE units were clearly inferior to EMDs.They broke down more often,and generally didn't last as long as EMDs.While many EMD units were rebuilt, the only large scale rebuilding program for GEs was Santa Fe'sSF30C program.Also,many engine crews didn't like them as well.[:(!]

[edblysard]

45144,
I dont care what they look or sound like.
I work with them all day long.
Give me a EMD any day.
Was flat yard switching today, with a GE C44-9, and a SD40-2.
The GE was the lead unit, but wouldnt stay running, died every time we kicked cars.
Engineer got tired of restarting the piece of junk, isolated it, and ran off of it, with the SD40 doing all the work, just used the GE as a control cab.
Was switching with 50 cars cuts, and the EMD was not only kicking the daylights out of them, it was hauling the dead weight of the GE around with it.
Wait till you have to work with them, then decide.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Hi Chaps,

Coming from England we have a whole load of fine locos that have been despatched by a fine but very boring EMD (Shed as they're called cos that's what they look like)

I've spent some time in the States over the years andhere's my thoughts

Looks: U boats and the like knock spots off the equivalent EMD. F's and E's were pretty sweet though as were the F45 and F40C cowl units - shame the F40 is too short for its bulk

Engine note - EMD boring whine or with a silencer yawn (We call the 66 a Ying Ying cos thats about all the noise it makes. ) As for the GE's - well a nice throaty diesel note reminiscent of an English Electric (Thats a manufacturer for those that are not aware) back home - sheer listening pleasure

Doing the job - all I've read or seen is that they all do the job competently as long as the right unit is on the right job

Come on guys - why so anti GE? Its only a boring EMD that its replacing and doing it with a bucketful of panache

All the best guys and no offence to anyone - just can't work out why EMD is such a God when their current locos are so soulless

(By the way - will you be taking my fingerprints for these heretical statements - it wasn't Britain where the guy carrying bullets got on the plane but it sure was Britain where he was arrested. Don't think I'll be visiting the States while I'm considered a criminal just for being from England. [V] Sorry